You also dont get punished when you play a creature on turn 2 when you are on the play by liliana. Especially having LoTV on the play is so strong in the mirror that I think that alone justifies choosing to play.
I think Ishkanah is a great way to stabilize the board, if you get that far to speak. At 5 mana she can of course also rot in the hand.
But I get the idea behind her. One reason for it is that for example Finks, is imo not a great card anymore in Jund. A lot of threats in modern are flying atm, especially since phoenix is a deck. Finks doesn't block at all here. And this observation has led me to the desire of a great flying stabilizing creature, which is actually able to block. unfortunatlely I haven't found any creature that is good enough. Ishkanah is a similar strategy I think. She can block flying threats and provide needed time threough chump blocking. Recurring her also seems valuable.
I personally am a bit higher on PKN though, which has similar purposes. But I like the cheaper cost and the possibility of removing a threat or 2 in addition.
@yriel you are right, rocks manabase is indeed very tight. And to state, I absolutely think the manabase from the challange list is inconsistant and I would not play that manabase. I think with 24 lands you can mostly only play 3 FoRs. But people like their FoR and also their treetops, so they mostly play inconsistant manabases.
Since in rock we also play Lilianas, we also need 18 black sources on turn 3. The problem with FoR is, that it doesn't provide black for turn 3. So you can't count it as black source. My personal manabase looks like the following for example:
4 Blooming Marsh
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Overgrown Tomb
4 Swamp
3 Hissing Quagmire
1 Marsh Flats
1 Treetop Village
2 Forest
3 Field of Ruin
at first glance the manabase seems more liberal as we play a 2 colour deck compared to Jund, but overall it is very tight as Field of Ruin is played.
Yes very unreliable, the probability of having turn 2 double green with 16 green sources only is 77.6 % and for 20 sources its 91.8 %. Thats a difference of almost 15 %. SO its basically having it 7 out of 10 times vs 9 out of 10 times when you bring it in. I mean its possible but I think its a bit risky.
Anyone here tested Jund and Rock ? Any feedback on that ?
My MTGO leagues results are pretty average with Jund (42-45) so i guess it's a fair reason to test Rock now, anything to help me (and us) to think about that ?
By the way do you think, even if player is experimented with BGX, he have to switch on other archetype ?
If the meta demands that sometimes its the right choice. I also do that from time to time even though I am hesitant. I usually switch to Shadow or Storm.
Double green on turn 2 is more demanding than a turn 3 Liliana in terms of mana sources. You would need 20 green sources to fulfill it. If we take into account that most lists play 16-17 green sources this seems very unreliable. You would need to cut FoR entirely for that probably.
The light of hope is growing really dim for this archetype, which is saddening me greatly.
In other news, I'm hoping there are going to be cards with Spectacle that Jund could make use of. Spectacle as a mechanic has some promise.
I think spectacle is quite hard for us to enable. It rewards proactive play which is stronger in aggro decks usually. If it would enable upon dealing dmg to ourselves then I think it would work nicely. But not sure how we can consistantly enable spectacle in our deck other than wasting a bolt or being ahead on board already.
The card is awkward in mana. It's almost just worse than pulse.
Unless standard gives Jund a removal like Trophy without the setback going against us, answers isn't really what Jund needs.
Jund needs either a broken creature or something that gives some amazing card filtering. The instant and sorceries for the most part isn't what this archetype needs anymore---of course unless WOTC power creeps and give something straight up better than bolt and push.
A good payoff for Looting would also work I guess, since Looting would then be playable in Jund.
However, I think the card is interesting but overall pulse seems better. Instant woukd be the only real appeal and I am not sure we want a 3 mana one here.
I agree that Ooze should kept in against Hollow One and Bobs are a fine cut to make. Kalitas surely needs to come in. However, Surgical is good vs them imo. The reason is, as they are siding out explosive enablers like Inquiry, their plan is to actually outgrind us, which they very well are capable of. And therefore I think they do not and should not side out Bloodghasts against us. And Surgical is the best answer to Bloodghasts, for which reason I would bring it in for sure.
If you look at the Hollow One guides you can find, nobody ever cuts Bloodghasts against us:
Bloodghasts only get sided out against Scales, Humans and Spirits usually. Those are matchups where the Hollow One player wants to be fast/not grind and Bloodghasts doesn't attack well.
I mostly would follow this article from PVDDR concerning that: https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/tiny-edges-dont-choose-to-draw/
You also dont get punished when you play a creature on turn 2 when you are on the play by liliana. Especially having LoTV on the play is so strong in the mirror that I think that alone justifies choosing to play.
Might be playing her for fun, because why not.
One other interesting idea would be Bitterblossom. I was given the tip by a Jund grinder, and it kinda makes sense too.
But I get the idea behind her. One reason for it is that for example Finks, is imo not a great card anymore in Jund. A lot of threats in modern are flying atm, especially since phoenix is a deck. Finks doesn't block at all here. And this observation has led me to the desire of a great flying stabilizing creature, which is actually able to block. unfortunatlely I haven't found any creature that is good enough. Ishkanah is a similar strategy I think. She can block flying threats and provide needed time threough chump blocking. Recurring her also seems valuable.
I personally am a bit higher on PKN though, which has similar purposes. But I like the cheaper cost and the possibility of removing a threat or 2 in addition.
Since in rock we also play Lilianas, we also need 18 black sources on turn 3. The problem with FoR is, that it doesn't provide black for turn 3. So you can't count it as black source. My personal manabase looks like the following for example:
4 Blooming Marsh
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Overgrown Tomb
4 Swamp
3 Hissing Quagmire
1 Marsh Flats
1 Treetop Village
2 Forest
3 Field of Ruin
at first glance the manabase seems more liberal as we play a 2 colour deck compared to Jund, but overall it is very tight as Field of Ruin is played.
If the meta demands that sometimes its the right choice. I also do that from time to time even though I am hesitant. I usually switch to Shadow or Storm.
I think spectacle is quite hard for us to enable. It rewards proactive play which is stronger in aggro decks usually. If it would enable upon dealing dmg to ourselves then I think it would work nicely. But not sure how we can consistantly enable spectacle in our deck other than wasting a bolt or being ahead on board already.
How come? And where did you read that?
EDIT: Just saw the SCG article, yeah thats sad, but she will be a great addition to the play design team for sure.
A good payoff for Looting would also work I guess, since Looting would then be playable in Jund.
This completely depends on your spells you run. The manacurve depicts the manabase.
However, I think the card is interesting but overall pulse seems better. Instant woukd be the only real appeal and I am not sure we want a 3 mana one here.
If you look at the Hollow One guides you can find, nobody ever cuts Bloodghasts against us:
https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/hollow-one-in-modern/
https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/a-guide-to-black-red-hollow-one-in-modern/
Bloodghasts only get sided out against Scales, Humans and Spirits usually. Those are matchups where the Hollow One player wants to be fast/not grind and Bloodghasts doesn't attack well.