I have been experiencing an increase in Dredgevine and was wondering if anyone has suggestions on dealing with them? I am running Relic in the side but it seems to always be 1 draw step too slow.
Given that nothing in your deck draws you a card, this tech is extremely clunky. Also, it doesn't null a Snapcaster, it just "remands" its effect.
Sigh, ignore the Snapcaster. How many times have you said "I just need to top deck _____ card to win this game"? And there it is in your graveyard, end of opponents turn you put it on top and win the game. If goblins had access to card draw we would already be tier 1/2, but we don't. A Ringleader reprint is the last thing I expect to see in Modern so we are stuck with top deck wishes and dreams.
I do play surgical in the side and agree it is very effective. I am proposing a main board addition in place of the card you board out most frequently.
In my search for answers and to fill the last slot in my RG deck I stumbled across a fun bit of tech for Goblins. It is your 5th Grenade, that extra bolt, the top deck replacement to a destroyed goblin or an extra fetch land. You can play it in 8 whack to turn on surge with only 2 mana and if you really want to be sneaky, use it on your opponent to null a snap caster for that last hit before they flashback an electrolyze. The card is Noxious Revival and so far I have loved it every time I draw it. Would like to hear the groups opinion on the card and if anyone else can test it that would be awesome.
I want the 4 grenades in my deck. Too many 4 and 5 toughness creatures running around as the format slows down. Grixis Control is a thing and is crushing for goblins once they land the Banana King, with fetches and thought scour I have seen it turn 2. UWR control is polite compared to Grixis
Everyone I have asked, why control, they've said it is a strong deck and it is hard to justify the cost of Tarmogoyf online. There are a large number of jund decks running around but at the end of the day I think people like drawing cards. I can tell most people are new to the deck due to miss plays and taping out against goblins with 4 mana on the board.
I would drop to 1 sword and remove a surgical for 1 relic. You will need it versus Dredge type decks and surgical is not enough versus living end. Add in 1 Dismember for the protected creatures and for when you need to remove big delve creatures.
Against blue control you have to slow down. You can win, but you have to play slower. Offer up something spicy to draw out a counter and then land the card you really want. Expect Piledriver to get the axe every time and use him to protect other things. Also remember that after board in the URx match ups there will be an Izzet Staticaster, save a bolt for this evil thing.
T4-T5 Collected Company into... Goblin Arsonist - ...sounds awful to me.
You don't want to play Collected with 16NonCreatureSpells and cards like Arsonist and Wardrive, do u?
I agree completely, in fairness I did play 3 games with the original deck list (no SB) and the main deck was not where I think it needs to be.
As a reminder, here is the original deck list:
So I moved some things around: Swapped the Arsonist for Mogg Fanatic, Pulled Token Spells for Mogg War Marshall, and replaced the Rabblemaster for Adaptive Automaton.
Tweaked the lands to match up with my current RG deck list and rebuilt the sideboard for MTGO.
Tested it over the weekend, 12 Matches with overall record of 8-4 these were individual matches with random pairings.
Wins against UWR Control, Lantern, Burn, Boggles, BW Tokens, Humans, and 2x G Stompy
With the increased creature count it hits well with Company and I can typically land a lord, sometimes 2. The biggest issue is the speed of the deck, you need removal in the opening hand or the game is not going to go very well. Just like 8 Whack the removal of a lord hurts, but when you can get more than 1 on the board things are better, having 3 makes lightning bolt useless and happened twice across the matches. I plan to perform some more testing when I get time this week.
I am not happy with Wardriver but have not started looking for anything else yet.
I have been continuing to test the Sword of Light and Shadow to decent results. In games where I can get it on the field and equip it (turn 5 typically) I have won the game. In games where I am tight on lands it has just sat in my hand mocking me. I am keeping it as a 1 of in the sideboard and continue to use it against all sorts of decks. I have tried it against red decks to some interesting results, they are very scared of it and you can board it back out game 3 after they have boarded in every scrap of artifact hate they have (Stony Silence in burn??).
The most interesting to me is the last one... I have posted it below. I do not agree with everything in the deck but I think it presents a decent take on a company deck if we are pushing for a longer game, with Eldrazi crippled and Jund moving back into the top spot along side Ux Control I could see a deck like this working by overwhelming removal and counters available to each deck.
I finally got around to updating my tappedout a little, so It's all up to date there as of now. I'm going to be bringing this 75 to states this weekend, and to the modern SGC open in Milwaukee the weekend after: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/no-lords-goblins/
I have been testing the Sword of Light and Shadow in my deck for the past few days on MTGO and I have to agree it is a very powerful card. A little slow across 2 turns but once it is down my opponents have been struggling to remove the creature. I have been equipping it to Guide when I can to keep it out of bolt range but even on a 1/1 the card is a beast. I focused last night just on recasting MWM from the grave and the card is just pure value at that point. Is it bad that I want 2 of them in the sideboard?
Edit: Attaching it to Piledriver against UW decks is hilarious.
It has probably been asked before, but its 163 pages long so...
In the no-lords list, why would you run 3 mogg war marshall if you're going to run 2 dragon fodders and 2 krenko's command?
Isn't MWM strictly better?
MWM is awesome and I run 4 of them. The token generators are to allow for a very wide swing. The split was to get around the edge cases where they might get pulled or countered by name. To make some room you have to trim somewhere and MWM does not stick around all the time and if you do not have the haste enablers he can be a bit of a mana sink. Not a problem to run 4, try it out and see how you like it.
So Smash to Smithereens. I understand this in Burn, because you want every card to be hitting face. But why are we playing it?
Same reason burn does, deal bonus damage and destroy an artifact. I prefer Ancient Grudge but in mono-red I like to run a combination of Smash and Shattering Spree to get around counters.
4 of a card is too many unless your meta is flooded with Artifacts, are there 4 cards in your deck you can do without in a race against Affinity? I will pull 2 cards for some hate against Affinity, but we can race them if you deal with a blocker or two. Lantern is also a poor reason to have that much hate, by the time you need it a good lantern player will have you locked and the card stripped from your hand.
I agree with this concept. I look at the sideboard as a way to hedge against the problem decks. Not a specific deck, but the themes of problem decks. Lifegain, Artifacts, Graveyard, Tokens, U Control. The number of slots you dedicate to your sideboard for each deck type depends on how much you see that deck in your meta and if it affects your deck and play style. My local meta is heavy infect in the summer and once all the students return to school there are more Tier 1 and control decks.
Keep in mind goblins wants consistency, so if you are siding in a bunch of cards they need to win the game on the spot. Otherwise you are over sideboarding and hurting your own deck. A perfect example is Grafdigger's Cage, it is a house against company decks and will often win you the game if you get it down so I mull down to 5 to try and get it in my hand.
If you have a testing partner play a bunch of sideboarded games and track how many games you win with and without the sideboard cards in your hand. This will help you play better and build a better sideboard strategy. Also your partner will be able to tell you how much the cards really impacted the game. Then trade decks and do it again.
The cards do different things. Grafdigger's Cage is great against persist triggers, Collected Company, and Chord of Calling. It does not help against Dredge or Living End. I would personally run both and remove the Fecundity from the SB.
I have always liked Grudge against Lantern Control, Tron, and Merfolk. Shattering Spree can remove all of Wormcoil for 3 mana I think.
Put the spell on the stack plus 2 copies, target wormcoil with the original spell. Let that resolve and put the token trigger on the stack. Let the trigger resolve and target the two tokens with the remaining copies of spree. I believe this works because you pick the targets of the copies when they resolve, not when they are put on the stack.
*Edit: Forgot the first question, I would keep FSD in your build, the ability to drop 3 creatures in a turn for 1 mana can really take advantage of the pump trigger.
Sigh, ignore the Snapcaster. How many times have you said "I just need to top deck _____ card to win this game"? And there it is in your graveyard, end of opponents turn you put it on top and win the game. If goblins had access to card draw we would already be tier 1/2, but we don't. A Ringleader reprint is the last thing I expect to see in Modern so we are stuck with top deck wishes and dreams.
I do play surgical in the side and agree it is very effective. I am proposing a main board addition in place of the card you board out most frequently.
Against blue control you have to slow down. You can win, but you have to play slower. Offer up something spicy to draw out a counter and then land the card you really want. Expect Piledriver to get the axe every time and use him to protect other things. Also remember that after board in the URx match ups there will be an Izzet Staticaster, save a bolt for this evil thing.
As a reminder, here is the original deck list:
4 Foundry Street Denizen
4 Goblin Arsonist
2 Legion Loyalist
3 Goblin Piledriver
3 Goblin Wardriver
4 Goblin Chieftain
1 Goblin King
3 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Goblin Grenade
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Krenko's Command
4 Collected Company
Lands (20)
1 Forest
3 Karplusan Forest
8 Mountain
4 Stomping Ground
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Collateral Damage
2 Electrickery
1 Prey Upon
2 Ranger's Guile
4 Destructive Revelry
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Seismic Stomp
Tweaked the lands to match up with my current RG deck list and rebuilt the sideboard for MTGO.
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Mogg War Marshal
4 Foundry Street Denizen
3 Goblin Wardriver
2 Legion Loyalist
3 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Chieftain
1 Goblin King
3 Adaptive Automaton
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Goblin Grenade
4 Collected Company
Lands (20)
2 Arid Mesa
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Stomping Ground
6 Mountain
4 Copperline Gorge
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Atarka's Command
2 Destructive Revelry
2 Gruul Charm
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Dismember
1 Electrickery
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Skullcrack
Tested it over the weekend, 12 Matches with overall record of 8-4 these were individual matches with random pairings.
Wins against UWR Control, Lantern, Burn, Boggles, BW Tokens, Humans, and 2x G Stompy
With the increased creature count it hits well with Company and I can typically land a lord, sometimes 2. The biggest issue is the speed of the deck, you need removal in the opening hand or the game is not going to go very well. Just like 8 Whack the removal of a lord hurts, but when you can get more than 1 on the board things are better, having 3 makes lightning bolt useless and happened twice across the matches. I plan to perform some more testing when I get time this week.
I am not happy with Wardriver but have not started looking for anything else yet.
I went digging for more goblins results and found a few...
8 Whack
8 Whack + burn
8 Whack + Tokens
8 Whack - 3rd SCG IQ
Goblin Company - 4th SCG IQ
The most interesting to me is the last one... I have posted it below. I do not agree with everything in the deck but I think it presents a decent take on a company deck if we are pushing for a longer game, with Eldrazi crippled and Jund moving back into the top spot along side Ux Control I could see a deck like this working by overwhelming removal and counters available to each deck.
4 Foundry Street Denizen
4 Goblin Arsonist
2 Legion Loyalist
3 Goblin Piledriver
3 Goblin Wardriver
4 Goblin Chieftain
1 Goblin King
3 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Goblin Grenade
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Krenko's Command
4 Collected Company
Lands (20)
1 Forest
3 Karplusan Forest
8 Mountain
4 Stomping Ground
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Collateral Damage
2 Electrickery
1 Prey Upon
2 Ranger's Guile
4 Destructive Revelry
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Seismic Stomp
Edit: Attaching it to Piledriver against UW decks is hilarious.
MWM is awesome and I run 4 of them. The token generators are to allow for a very wide swing. The split was to get around the edge cases where they might get pulled or countered by name. To make some room you have to trim somewhere and MWM does not stick around all the time and if you do not have the haste enablers he can be a bit of a mana sink. Not a problem to run 4, try it out and see how you like it.
The "Deck Thinning" is not really worth it and is more of a myth. Fetches help for color fixing and landfall.
Same reason burn does, deal bonus damage and destroy an artifact. I prefer Ancient Grudge but in mono-red I like to run a combination of Smash and Shattering Spree to get around counters.
4 of a card is too many unless your meta is flooded with Artifacts, are there 4 cards in your deck you can do without in a race against Affinity? I will pull 2 cards for some hate against Affinity, but we can race them if you deal with a blocker or two. Lantern is also a poor reason to have that much hate, by the time you need it a good lantern player will have you locked and the card stripped from your hand.
Keep in mind goblins wants consistency, so if you are siding in a bunch of cards they need to win the game on the spot. Otherwise you are over sideboarding and hurting your own deck. A perfect example is Grafdigger's Cage, it is a house against company decks and will often win you the game if you get it down so I mull down to 5 to try and get it in my hand.
If you have a testing partner play a bunch of sideboarded games and track how many games you win with and without the sideboard cards in your hand. This will help you play better and build a better sideboard strategy. Also your partner will be able to tell you how much the cards really impacted the game. Then trade decks and do it again.
I have always wanted to make vial work in modern, perhaps with the recent bans I should give it another go.
I have always liked Grudge against Lantern Control, Tron, and Merfolk. Shattering Spree can remove all of Wormcoil for 3 mana I think.
Put the spell on the stack plus 2 copies, target wormcoil with the original spell. Let that resolve and put the token trigger on the stack. Let the trigger resolve and target the two tokens with the remaining copies of spree. I believe this works because you pick the targets of the copies when they resolve, not when they are put on the stack.
*Edit: Forgot the first question, I would keep FSD in your build, the ability to drop 3 creatures in a turn for 1 mana can really take advantage of the pump trigger.