I originally thought this might be best as a tap ability, but this way it can activate itself, and hopefully the cost is sufficient that it can't go too bonkers with killing things. Seems more like a Watercourser type ability that way, too.
HYDROGEN SQUIRTER 3UR
Creature - Beast Mutant (Uncommon) 2RU: target creature gains +1/-1 and flying until end of turn. We're just further developing the Simic's design.
3/3
So I took some time between prereleases to finish off the rares and mythics. There are actually some cards missing here as well as many missing names. I'm open to any proposals for card names or the few missing rares and mythics. Some of them I've specified the type, but other than that, I'm open to any feedback.
Having said that, I remain extremely busy, and will not likely have a chance to look at this site again until next weekend. I had intended to also write a comparison of what I did with this set over the past three years and what we've seen in the official spoilers. There are some similarities and differences. But again, time is short, so that will have to wait as well.
I should have been clearer: I'm interested in limited play. I went back and counted: there were 2 commons that care about colorless. Maybe half a dozen or so uncommons. It doesn't seem relevant enough for limited play to make it worthwhile. But again, maybe there will be more things in the second set that will add to that.
You missed a few actually. Here they are across all rarities...
...6 Commons, a ton of uncommons, rares. Color matters quite a bit in limited.
EDIT: I don't gaurentee that the above cards are every card that interacts with colorless in BFZ, but I think its plenty to demonstrate that colorless matters in BFZ limited.
That's more than I thought at first (I probably just ignored the ones I thought sucked, and didn't think to look for colorless hosers). Yeah, it might be a thing in limited.
I think the interaction between Ingest and Processors will be very interesting, I just don't think it really feels like an Eldrazi thing. It's too cute (not that there's anything wrong with that), and Eldrazi seem like they should just be overpowering.
I also think it kind of defeats the purpose for all of these cards to be colorless when they technically have a color, but there's no way of really interacting with the fact that they are colorless. Maybe there will be some reason from the second set that makes this more valid, but right now it seems like there is a lot more they could have done with this.
There is a ton of cards that care about colorless spells in BFZ. Look.
I should have been clearer: I'm interested in limited play. I went back and counted: there were 2 commons that care about colorless. Maybe half a dozen or so uncommons. It doesn't seem relevant enough for limited play to make it worthwhile. But again, maybe there will be more things in the second set that will add to that.
My main interest in limited, and unfortunately I did not get to play much in the past year so can't really rate those sets. I am somewhat disappointed in this set, as I think they could have done some more adventurous things with it. Ingest/Processor doesn't really feel like what I imagined an Eldrazi mechanic should be based on the last time we saw them, but that's more of a flavor thing than anything. In limited, I think it will be a fun mechanic to play. I think Converge will play better in limited than some are giving credit for (I'm thinking about how three color decks were a thing in Innistrad despite the lack of mana-fixing). And I think there will be several draft archetypes to explore. I'm looking forward to playing this in limited, despite how poorly I think it fit flavorwise with my preconceived notions.
One of the challenges with these Return to sets is that everyone is excited about what they liked best the first time, and then it's different. I think it will be better in limited than Avacyn Restored, but probably not as good as Innistrad. Beyond that, I think we'll have to play to find out.
I think the interaction between Ingest and Processors will be very interesting, I just don't think it really feels like an Eldrazi thing. It's too cute (not that there's anything wrong with that), and Eldrazi seem like they should just be overpowering.
I also think it kind of defeats the purpose for all of these cards to be colorless when they technically have a color, but there's no way of really interacting with the fact that they are colorless. Maybe there will be some reason from the second set that makes this more valid, but right now it seems like there is a lot more they could have done with this.
Quickly and pertaining only to my own cards, as I don't have the time now to comment on them all.
Brother Inspector is not the final name in my intentions and it has been directly inspired by the Merfolk one, which came earlier. The Merfolk checks detain so it makes sense in blue, a detain color, while the black one checks brainwash, which is supposed to be primary black.
huh, for whatever reason I thought they checked the same thing. If they don't, then it's probably great.
I guess Brain Crumple/Final Enlightenment reminded me a bit of something like swift reckoning or Smite the Monstrous which seem to care more about the status of the creature than the type of creature (another example of a black card would be Victim of Night). I certainly think either of these could be black, but you could also make one of them white so that they don't overlap so much. Maybe even mirrored pairs of a sort?
If you are set on Freigh being only about artifact destruction, then maybe even lowering the cost all the way to RG. I definitely don't think she's on the same level as Domri Rade.
The life gain on Hit the Stone is the first yet undone bonus I could think of, later flavored to be the "thrill of the moment" (check flavor text). Destroy target artifact and draw a card has already been done in original Ravnica in red at three mana (don't remember the name now). I thought of just shifting that to green, but I preferred something more original.
Fair enough, was not even aware of that other card. My response to this earlier was just spur of the moment.
A few of the hybrids still seeking names (as well as any of those listed above, plus more if you want to look through the details).
uz421
Creature—elemental
CARDNAME enters the battlefield with 4 -1/-1 counters on it.
Whenever a land is placed on top of your library from the graveyard, remove a -1/-1 counter from CARDNAME.
Regrowth- you may put a land from your graveyard on top of your library as you cast CARDNAME, if you do, it enters the battlefield with 3 -1/-1 counters instead of 4.
5/5
uz213
Enchantment
creatures you control have "sacrifice this creature: return target creature to it's owners hand."
uz034
Enchantment—aura
Enchant creature
Enchanted creature has +2/+2.
if W was used to cast this, enchanted creature has lifelink.
if B was used to cast this, enchanted creature has deathtouch.
@scapegoatmeal....I can only speak for myself here, but I have no problem with you posting comments on the designs as long as you don't derail the thread in doing so, which I don't see being a problem. Everything you've posted in the thread thus far has been very respectful and on point. I think the more feedback we get, the better the set will turn out. As I said before though, please refrain from posting any card ideas of your own until the team has gotten a chance to develop cards themselves. For instance, once the team has filled all the common slots, feel free to post some common card ideas you might have. If we like them, we may just include them (giving the developer credit of course). I say this not to be rude, but because I wasn't intending to make Ormos a community set. Once we let a few people start to develop some cards, that could potentially open the flood gates until there is nothing left for the team to design. Anyway, thanks for your continued interest in Ormos, I hope you continue to follow along.
Definitely. I would probably just wait until someone said there's these holes in the skeleton, what do we do about them before I proposed any ideas.
Some comments:
really like the following commons (both mechanically and flavorwise):
siltshore inspector/brother inspector (though not sure if it's black or blue, also not sure you want it to be both), tome horder, tangle of bureacracy, nightrunner scout, thoughtbleed, empowered defector, contraband smuggler, wilderness channeler, surveillance sweeper, information chip
Some of the commons look more like uncommons, or at least overpowered:
Elite Peacekeepers (repeatable detain)
Enforcement squad (3 power first strike is a lot)
biocrafting (especially if constructed is considered: Batterskull. Maybe limit the CMC applicable?)
wastelands hulk (seems overpowered even if green instead of black)
alleyway medic (probably OK if the regen cost was more like 2G)
friendly stranger (I Love this card, but as written it's even a bit overpowered at uncommon. It's a two for one, so I can't see doing anything to make it work at common, but you should definitely keep it once it's cost is balanced.)
plated loader (double blocking seems uncommon)
A few possibly underpowered commons:
Viashino Trinket-Smasher: unless this allows you to destroy cards implanted on your creatures, it seems like you'd want a higher damage amount on this.
Hit the Stone: life gain seems odd on this for some reason. For whatever reason, flavorwise this seems to want to draw a card, though it should probably cost more if that's the case.
Color appropriate?
Braincrumple/Final Enlightenment: these actually seem mechanically more white to me as they are conditional removal. (even if flavorwise they seem more black)
Planeswalkers:
Dahl- seems like he should have some sort of card advantage (or disadvantage) effect. I guess technically making 1/1 fliers is kind of card advantage, but I was thinking of something more Jace-like.
Freigh- I like the flavor of the artifact stuff, but she seems way too narrow. There are times she won't do anything at all (though I do like the wording of the +1 so it still technically "does" something). Since she's the rebel leader, what if she made or found creatures for her middle ability? (something very red/green planeswalkery anyways)
Edit: @scapegoatmeal....Your idea is actually fantastic, I'm not sure it's enough to make me want to change what we're doing for Ormos, but it is definitely something that should be done somewhere, and it would make sense on Ormos. But, I still like the idea of having the two sets in the block kind of be like night and day from one another. The first set being focused on the Brotherhood featuring -1/-1 counters, their color-pairs and themes of oppression and control, while the second set focuses on the Rebellion featuring +1/+1 counters, their color pairs, and themes of freedom and individuality. I'm not sure we could draft the sets together if we did this.
Pretty much what I expected: you'd like it but too far along to make the change. I might have commented here earlier, but I didn't start reading the thread until sometime this week. The first post made it look less receptive to input from outsiders than you've actually been with the comments from me and from others. When I read beyond that I really got into the idea though. Anyways, this is an idea I used in the set I've been uploading, so if you want to see some of those cards just take a look over there. I'm pretty sure this set will turn out much better than mine did. I didn't know that people collaborated on this sort of stuff online when I came up with that idea.
Anyways, I know there's a lot of us lurkers around, some with card ideas. I'm wondering if you are open to feedback from lurkers on the cards that you've been designing.
mono-colored uncommons are done. Here are a few still needing names that I'd like to highlight for any suggestions. (Still waiting on any suggestions on the two colorless enchantments in the above post, btw.)
UG05G
Sorcery
Kozilekmana (As long as you control no Ulamog territories, you may tap a Kozilek territory to pay for any of the colored mana symbols in the casting cost of this card. )
Search your library for a basic or simple land card, reveal it, put it into your hand, and then shuffle your library.
Regrowth: when you cast this spell, you may put a land from your graveyard on top of your graveyard, if you do, put the land onto the battlefield tapped instead of into your hand.
UR032R
Sorcery
Ulamogmana (As long as you control no Kozilek territories, you may tap a Ulamog territory to pay for any of the colored mana symbols in the casting cost of this card. )
Target creature you control does damage equal to its power to target creature you don't control.
UB043B
Sorcery
insanity (you have the option of discarding a card of one of the colored mana symbols in the cost or discarding another card with insanity instead of paying that colored mana symbol. If you do, draw a card and lose 2 life. You must still pay for the rest of the mana cost.)
put two -1/-1 counters on target creature.
UW053W
Sorcery
Ulamogmana (As long as you control no Kozilek territories, you may tap a Ulamog territory to pay for any of the colored mana symbols in the casting cost of this card.)
put 2 0/2 white slave tokens with defender onto the battlefield for each Ulamog territory that you control.
I'll try to get the hybrid cards up in the next few days.
I would be willing to listen to your idea about the two sets being drafted together, but I'm pretty set on them being drafted separately for a few different reasons. Of course I'm a very open-minded person, so if your idea knocks my socks off, I would certainly consider it.
Alright, I'll go ahead and share the idea though I doubt it will change much at this point in the process.
A set I've worked on has a subtheme of 0/2 white slave creature tokens with defender that can serve as speed bumps in a base white(ish) control deck, but then there are cards in other colors that allow them to do more than that (examples :"creatures with defender get +2/+0 and can attack as though they had defender," "Creatures you control have tap: return target creature to it's owners hand," etc.). I could imagine a similar thing for this block where you are starting out with so many people following the Brotherhood that are basically powerless to start with who might then be liberated and help the Rebellion in the second set. It doesn't have to be exactly a 0/2 token with defender, but some sort of creatures that serve as speed bumps for the white-based Brotherhood control decks in the first set then having cards printed in the second set with which they interact with in such a way as to make them more aggressive cards on the Rebellion side of things.
Anyways, that was my idea. If it resonates with you and you want to do something, great. If not, no worries either.
Very excited to see where you guys go with this set. I've learned some things from reading this that I wished I'd known myself when I started doing this sort of thing on my own three years ago.
It didn't take too long to get caught up. The first 6 pages were the longest with all the story detail. About the only new thing in the last page and a half other than geography was realizing the urgency of being on the verge of designing cards and not in a place for reevaluating mechanics.
I did want to share one more idea, however, that I don't think needs to affect mechanics. It sounds like most of the design team is assuming the sets will be drafted separately, but I do see a benefit to drafting them together: you could have cards that work as Brotherhood cards in the first set work more as Rebellion cards in the second set. It sounds like the main reason you wanted to have them separate was because of the issue with plus or minus counters, but that most of you didn't really have a problem with mixing those. Anyways, if having them drafted together to highlight the switch from Brotherhood to Rebellion is something you'd find interesting, I can share some ideas I have that won't necessarily affect the mechanics.
It sounds like you are mostly in the mood to start with the actual cards though. I'm very interested to see what you come up with.
I originally thought this might be best as a tap ability, but this way it can activate itself, and hopefully the cost is sufficient that it can't go too bonkers with killing things. Seems more like a Watercourser type ability that way, too.
Creature - Beast Mutant (Uncommon)
2RU: target creature gains +1/-1 and flying until end of turn.
We're just further developing the Simic's design.
3/3
Having said that, I remain extremely busy, and will not likely have a chance to look at this site again until next weekend. I had intended to also write a comparison of what I did with this set over the past three years and what we've seen in the official spoilers. There are some similarities and differences. But again, time is short, so that will have to wait as well.
That's more than I thought at first (I probably just ignored the ones I thought sucked, and didn't think to look for colorless hosers). Yeah, it might be a thing in limited.
This isn't necessarily a bad thing, especially with so many 7 to 8+ drops.
I should have been clearer: I'm interested in limited play. I went back and counted: there were 2 commons that care about colorless. Maybe half a dozen or so uncommons. It doesn't seem relevant enough for limited play to make it worthwhile. But again, maybe there will be more things in the second set that will add to that.
One of the challenges with these Return to sets is that everyone is excited about what they liked best the first time, and then it's different. I think it will be better in limited than Avacyn Restored, but probably not as good as Innistrad. Beyond that, I think we'll have to play to find out.
I also think it kind of defeats the purpose for all of these cards to be colorless when they technically have a color, but there's no way of really interacting with the fact that they are colorless. Maybe there will be some reason from the second set that makes this more valid, but right now it seems like there is a lot more they could have done with this.
huh, for whatever reason I thought they checked the same thing. If they don't, then it's probably great.
I guess Brain Crumple/Final Enlightenment reminded me a bit of something like swift reckoning or Smite the Monstrous which seem to care more about the status of the creature than the type of creature (another example of a black card would be Victim of Night). I certainly think either of these could be black, but you could also make one of them white so that they don't overlap so much. Maybe even mirrored pairs of a sort?
If you are set on Freigh being only about artifact destruction, then maybe even lowering the cost all the way to RG. I definitely don't think she's on the same level as Domri Rade.
Fair enough, was not even aware of that other card. My response to this earlier was just spur of the moment.
A few of the hybrids still seeking names (as well as any of those listed above, plus more if you want to look through the details).
uz42 1
Creature—elemental
CARDNAME enters the battlefield with 4 -1/-1 counters on it.
Whenever a land is placed on top of your library from the graveyard, remove a -1/-1 counter from CARDNAME.
Regrowth- you may put a land from your graveyard on top of your library as you cast CARDNAME, if you do, it enters the battlefield with 3 -1/-1 counters instead of 4.
5/5
uz21 3
Enchantment
creatures you control have "sacrifice this creature: return target creature to it's owners hand."
uz03 4
Enchantment—aura
Enchant creature
Enchanted creature has +2/+2.
if W was used to cast this, enchanted creature has lifelink.
if B was used to cast this, enchanted creature has deathtouch.
Definitely. I would probably just wait until someone said there's these holes in the skeleton, what do we do about them before I proposed any ideas.
Some comments:
really like the following commons (both mechanically and flavorwise):
siltshore inspector/brother inspector (though not sure if it's black or blue, also not sure you want it to be both), tome horder, tangle of bureacracy, nightrunner scout, thoughtbleed, empowered defector, contraband smuggler, wilderness channeler, surveillance sweeper, information chip
Some of the commons look more like uncommons, or at least overpowered:
Elite Peacekeepers (repeatable detain)
Enforcement squad (3 power first strike is a lot)
biocrafting (especially if constructed is considered: Batterskull. Maybe limit the CMC applicable?)
wastelands hulk (seems overpowered even if green instead of black)
alleyway medic (probably OK if the regen cost was more like 2G)
friendly stranger (I Love this card, but as written it's even a bit overpowered at uncommon. It's a two for one, so I can't see doing anything to make it work at common, but you should definitely keep it once it's cost is balanced.)
plated loader (double blocking seems uncommon)
A few possibly underpowered commons:
Viashino Trinket-Smasher: unless this allows you to destroy cards implanted on your creatures, it seems like you'd want a higher damage amount on this.
Hit the Stone: life gain seems odd on this for some reason. For whatever reason, flavorwise this seems to want to draw a card, though it should probably cost more if that's the case.
Color appropriate?
Braincrumple/Final Enlightenment: these actually seem mechanically more white to me as they are conditional removal. (even if flavorwise they seem more black)
Planeswalkers:
Dahl- seems like he should have some sort of card advantage (or disadvantage) effect. I guess technically making 1/1 fliers is kind of card advantage, but I was thinking of something more Jace-like.
Freigh- I like the flavor of the artifact stuff, but she seems way too narrow. There are times she won't do anything at all (though I do like the wording of the +1 so it still technically "does" something). Since she's the rebel leader, what if she made or found creatures for her middle ability? (something very red/green planeswalkery anyways)
Overall, I think it looks very good and very fun.
Pretty much what I expected: you'd like it but too far along to make the change. I might have commented here earlier, but I didn't start reading the thread until sometime this week. The first post made it look less receptive to input from outsiders than you've actually been with the comments from me and from others. When I read beyond that I really got into the idea though. Anyways, this is an idea I used in the set I've been uploading, so if you want to see some of those cards just take a look over there. I'm pretty sure this set will turn out much better than mine did. I didn't know that people collaborated on this sort of stuff online when I came up with that idea.
Anyways, I know there's a lot of us lurkers around, some with card ideas. I'm wondering if you are open to feedback from lurkers on the cards that you've been designing.
UG05 G
Sorcery
Kozilekmana (As long as you control no Ulamog territories, you may tap a Kozilek territory to pay for any of the colored mana symbols in the casting cost of this card. )
Search your library for a basic or simple land card, reveal it, put it into your hand, and then shuffle your library.
Regrowth: when you cast this spell, you may put a land from your graveyard on top of your graveyard, if you do, put the land onto the battlefield tapped instead of into your hand.
UR03 2R
Sorcery
Ulamogmana (As long as you control no Kozilek territories, you may tap a Ulamog territory to pay for any of the colored mana symbols in the casting cost of this card. )
Target creature you control does damage equal to its power to target creature you don't control.
UB04 3B
Sorcery
insanity (you have the option of discarding a card of one of the colored mana symbols in the cost or discarding another card with insanity instead of paying that colored mana symbol. If you do, draw a card and lose 2 life. You must still pay for the rest of the mana cost.)
put two -1/-1 counters on target creature.
UW05 3W
Sorcery
Ulamogmana (As long as you control no Kozilek territories, you may tap a Ulamog territory to pay for any of the colored mana symbols in the casting cost of this card.)
put 2 0/2 white slave tokens with defender onto the battlefield for each Ulamog territory that you control.
I'll try to get the hybrid cards up in the next few days.
Alright, I'll go ahead and share the idea though I doubt it will change much at this point in the process.
A set I've worked on has a subtheme of 0/2 white slave creature tokens with defender that can serve as speed bumps in a base white(ish) control deck, but then there are cards in other colors that allow them to do more than that (examples :"creatures with defender get +2/+0 and can attack as though they had defender," "Creatures you control have tap: return target creature to it's owners hand," etc.). I could imagine a similar thing for this block where you are starting out with so many people following the Brotherhood that are basically powerless to start with who might then be liberated and help the Rebellion in the second set. It doesn't have to be exactly a 0/2 token with defender, but some sort of creatures that serve as speed bumps for the white-based Brotherhood control decks in the first set then having cards printed in the second set with which they interact with in such a way as to make them more aggressive cards on the Rebellion side of things.
Anyways, that was my idea. If it resonates with you and you want to do something, great. If not, no worries either.
Very excited to see where you guys go with this set. I've learned some things from reading this that I wished I'd known myself when I started doing this sort of thing on my own three years ago.
I did want to share one more idea, however, that I don't think needs to affect mechanics. It sounds like most of the design team is assuming the sets will be drafted separately, but I do see a benefit to drafting them together: you could have cards that work as Brotherhood cards in the first set work more as Rebellion cards in the second set. It sounds like the main reason you wanted to have them separate was because of the issue with plus or minus counters, but that most of you didn't really have a problem with mixing those. Anyways, if having them drafted together to highlight the switch from Brotherhood to Rebellion is something you'd find interesting, I can share some ideas I have that won't necessarily affect the mechanics.
It sounds like you are mostly in the mood to start with the actual cards though. I'm very interested to see what you come up with.