Okay, am I really gonna be the first one here, 8 pages into this thread, who is actually happy that we have a black character (and a female one at that) finally taking center stage in the main story? Seriously? Yall think it's boring.
Why does everything have to be a social justice? 3/5 of the main cast of magic's good guys are female. Kaya was a female person of color. Saheeli was a female person of color. Nahiri, Kiora, Narset. It's harder to find a block without a female pro/antagonist. We're all upset that the card is *****. I don't care what shape or color the character is. The game is first and foremost just that; a card game. ***** cards in the flashy mythic slot make for negative feedback.
So many quotable posts in this thread I will simply quote yours as this is the problem with the whole entertainment (brainwash?) industry these days.
Stop paying if you feel that way. Don't fuel their fire anymore and perhaps they will understand.
I would hate to see that. An eldrazi commander is something that is very difficult to identify with which most players do. Your commander is, in a way, making a statement and eldrazi make what statement? Annihilate, void, erase, etc. Boooring...
wasn't copy cat combo a know isue that they knew but left in the set anyways? I always had the impression that they knew it but did't predict that people would just made a ETB deck with the combo in it ( like, we got some pretty decent hate in amonkhet, a set that was alread in priting before the cat was spoiled )
I lolled so hard at the artwork and your comment.
And to all those people who say we should trust WOTC and be happy about this "change":
When people's cards have become fertilizer because of some untested thing, it is too late. People have limited timespans and most of them have limited budgets, so you don't want bad cardboardcrack when you want to play and experience the so-called good cardboardcrack. Or there are going to be complications. Apologies, accepted or not, do not fix past problems between a company and its customers as they are not on a friendship basis. Even if they are sincerethis time, too late is too late.
Just got out of a 20 tournament at Izmircon 2017 (Our annual convention).
I will write a report later on but the matches and scores are:
Nahiri control 2-0
The pilot was someone who is pretty familiar with the modern meta, but match one he got stuck at 3 lands.
Match two was won on the shoulders of root maze + early critters. He had nothing to do both matches. Maybe a mulligan decision in the 1st one.
Death and taxes 2-1
The pilot was a bit inexperienced with the deck. Didnt use vault of the archangel effectively when he could game 1 and arbiters arrived late. Game three he had a good hand but turn 2 torpor orb pretty much hosed all his starting hand and that did it.
Bring to light scapeshift 1-2
Player on worlds team. Very experienced and seasoned. However, match 1 was a turn 4 win with a landslide. Matches 2 and three I sided in 3 root mazes but he was playing only 2 fetches and a timely reinforcements sealed it in match 3.
Nayaburn 2-0
Match one was pretty easy as I was the aggro which was a surprise on the 2 year player's side. Match two he made the mistake of leaving an E1 on bf me at 4 while he was at 11 or so. I vines the E1, attack for one while he's tapped out and feed the clan up to 14, leaving him at 6. As he had one card in hand I know that I wont die. He draws a creature. I dismember it and attack with geist + vines ftw.
Got third place. I ran root maze x3 in Sb with mixed success. No narnams and fetches.
Overall, I can say that I got lucky, but that would be an underestimation. The deck is weak against combo and I wanted to mitigate it by putting them at unease with maze. However, it is a double edged sword and it can't be used with the fetch build. The more fetches the opponents play the better although sometimes you don't even need it. The real need is the 1 mana, mono green kird ape variant as usual. All cards performed as expected, Rancor more than any other. The SB is a meta call as there was a boggles deck. The root mazes were the same, but they became relevant only in two matches (nahiri, nayaburn), in one of which I haven't really needed them (naya burn). The 4 color scapeshift deck really surprised me in running 2 fetches, but that's either because I don't test much these days, or the player don't have the fetches.
I agree with BbearZ and Epitaph Blade on the 1 drop we still need. If we had something less conditional like Skyshroud Elite, with evasion or deathtouch, something less conditional than the Narnam Renegade, we could probably be in a better position. I am saying probably because I haven't had the chance to test the deck properly for a long time like 3 months. Sure I played a few games at the LGS and against my friends but never a tournament in 3 months. So when I am speaking from experience and not testing against the current meta, please pardon my lack of devotion these days (no puns). I used to play 2x Wasteland Vipers to deter or ambush the big creatures and evolve E1, but as it did not evolve it beyond 2 toughness, and more importantly, because we could not use it outside of our combat step I stopped using it. Had it been like "G, discard Wasteland Viper: Target creature gets +1/+2 and deathtouch UEOT", I would still be using it today. Also, it is worth noting how colors other than the creature color are outshining green: Black has tasigur, white has a plethora of prot., 1strike, grow by trigger creatures, red has the best haste, colorless has eldrazi abominations and Wurmcoil Engine. The fact that the deck is performning poorly is because it is trying do a lot of fair thing against a meta that is getting more degenerate with power creep every day. In addition to Skyshroud ELite and the fixed Wasteland Viper, I would gladly play a one drop root maze on 2/1 or 1/2 legs against such a meta, but no luck because people and their decks with fetches, tarmogoyfs and the other archetypes keep getting supported one set after the other and we get a one drop that encourages to also play fetches! I am sorry if I am sounding sentimental, but that is not the stompy way. I used to run 4x verdant catacombs to fetch dryad arbors to chump, surprise back attack, or kill unsuspecting x/1s. But I took them out and put them into my edh decks. For me this deck was born from the leftover uncommons from drafts and dollar bin rare trades. It was born as a reaction and punishment to all the money decks. The fact that most of the deck's popularity stems from its cost-efficiency is still a huge factor when I am considering cards for it because in the past when I introduced it to new players, that was the selling point. Now, I feel that accessibility and cost-efficiency are degrading.
As for the aspect argument, I don't think like that this deck has to rely on Aspect of Hydra to win in general. But it makes up for the lack of damage we could not deal in the previous turns that built up to that point. The thing I do not like about it is that we need to have at least a total of 4 green symbols on the BF in order to justify its value over giant growth and the amount of good removal spread around all colors but green (still waiting for that instant prey upon) makes me worried. So I can't say I have a clear opinion about it but if we have better creatures that our opponents cant also have (basic land triggers, static boosts related to basic forests), we would feel less dependant on our version of Hatred.
Sorry for the long post. I had some free time and I broke up from my routine a bit today to spare some time.
Keep stomping and I will join in active testing soon.
Why don't we just play another dude for 2G instead of pumping another guy while path is still everywhere? As usual I am disappointed. Also, we need a good 1 drop, not a 2-3. The only 2-3 drops I would possibly be interested in would be sth. like Blade Splicer that makes extra bodies in green with some easily triggered ability such as a ETB or an alternated costed activated ability other than mana.
Also, Throne of the God-Pharaoh post combat for the win? Because that looks like a very surprising way to mop up games to me.
or just play elves or other aggro with tokens or recursion.
Good job wizards. RuinEnchance the game more with colorless life loss at 2 mana that can be triggered by nearly all decks.
I will get 4 of and win with the above jank in Edh. You are free to try it in other formats because why not?! O.o ahahaha
The emblem is not that big of a deal, because planeswalkers are easier to interact with than creatures.
How can you claim this statement?
There are much less amount of the removal spell options to kill a planweswalker than a creature.
You can't literally attack a creature.
Gideon's annoying? Fine, I'll attack him with everybody, good bye gideon. Random creature is annoying and stubbornly refuses to engage in combat? Well, you better draw that removal spell or he's sticking around.
You can attack a planweswalker, but your opponent can also chunk block your attackers.
I still cannot buy your statement.
In addition, this Gideon has +1 ability to freeze one of your biggest attacker.
Thats not unique to gideon. Your opponent can throw blockers in front of any planeswalker they control. Many planeswalkers also have the ability to defend themselves in some way by creating a token or icing an attacker. If you can't deal with ANY planeswalker, you are usually in trouble, its not often when you can go "whatever, I don't care about that", ignore a PW, and keep attacking the opponent. It can happen, the emblem isn't nothing, its part of why the card is good, but this gideon is not broken.
I think you were too focused on removal spells when you were wondering how I could say PW are easier to interact with. Against a PW, every creature on your side is a repeatable permanent source of removal.
There you said it. You can ignore pws and go for lethal on the opponent normally. But this, no. First you need to get through the gideon and when I say the Gideon I mean that your opponent can pack 8x of them and removal and lifegain on top of the Gideons. This is an abomination. A pw on steroids. We don't need things like that. We need more balanced cards and the people who say they listen to feedback do not actually care. Players do not need cancerous cards like this. 0 for a platinum angel ability is too much. They could have at least made it cost -1 but they did not. Some can say "flavor requires him to be powerful" But flavor can be balanced too. Why do you think that it costs 0? Why can't we attack into it with a 2/2 and kill it? Why can't we burn it out with shock? Why does the Gideon player has so little to think about while the gideonless one has to jump hurdles to kill it? Pushed is pushed. You gotta admit, sometimes.
Gideon is disgusting. Squeeze 8 Gideons into vehicles (4 ally 4 Trials)
T2 Heart of Kiran
T3 New broken Gideon - emblem or +1
T4 If it survives begin 8 damage per turn swings - if dead play Ally or trials again.
T5 and again
T6 and again
T7 still can't lose the game... and again
Hey balance team at WotC... bite me I'm not buying any of your set until you screw your heads back on straight.
Can't lose the game... <grumble>
They didn't want to 'upset' people with bannings on March 13... what if they ban ally of Z?
My thoughts exactly. And in modern there are so many other things that can protect him. Emblems should not be thrown around like they are nothing, in my opinion. Don't even get me started on planeswalker cards...
Planeswalker power creep, here we go. When do we get our 2 mana Nicol Bolas card?
I think there'd still be room to push for a 0 mana Karn after that one because money.
Recur him with Eternal Witness, Sun Titan, etc.
Play his brothers,
Protect him with protection(?!) effects,
Opponent flips table,
Happy now?
Don't forget to pray to people at Wizards and the corp.
So, today two creatures were spoiled that are on the power level this deck wants, but they have two downsides: little green devotion, require a sacrifice.
The cards I'm talking about are this:
The thing is, this cards work really well with undying, and I see potential as long as we have cannon fodder for sacrifice, this might even mean Young Wolf could have a place if it justifies the added power gained from this cards. What do you guys think?
You might want to look into Blisterpod or Tukatongue Thallid or Brindle Shoat. I think the exemplar of strength might have a go with them if you also use mutagenic growth so that after an attack for 3 on turn 2 you can lay it down and have 5 power turn 3, but you are doing the work for the opponent by killing your own creature so I guess they are not what the deck wants. You might also go with Fate Transfer if you really enjoy jankiness like I used to do but then there is always Sheltering ANcient for those times : P
Also, also see: Torpor Orb.dec with Eater of Days and Levelers and the such if you want to play a high risk high reward deck.
Because zombies have historically been black
That's why it's controversial
I can't believe I actually had to type that out
I came here to comment on this issue.
A zombie is a walking desecration.
A zombie is:
1) Mockery of life,
2) made by powers that are playing god,
3) is not possible without disturbing the dead.
Perhaps they should have gone with a new creature type like the actual Mummy or perhaps I've gotten too old.
Creatures that can't even pass the Dark Banishing test are becoming zombies, what has the world come to...
Search up how extended fell from grace and how we got modern. One day you wake up and all your cards are garbage. While all your other cards are valuable. Some people stocking up on khans fetches and BFZ duals and other possible Frontier staples such as Fatal Push. Get ready for writings like "Modern was steered by bla bla and so we need change bla bla..." I was there when Extended was castrated and left to die in the gutter. Modern's fate will be the same by the looks of it and ones who stockpile will get rich. The next time you trade your dead T2 cards think again in terms of Frontier because if the pattern is to be followed, it is what will happen.
Stop paying if you feel that way. Don't fuel their fire anymore and perhaps they will understand.
I lolled so hard at the artwork and your comment.
And to all those people who say we should trust WOTC and be happy about this "change":
When people's cards have become fertilizer because of some untested thing, it is too late. People have limited timespans and most of them have limited budgets, so you don't want bad cardboardcrack when you want to play and experience the so-called good cardboardcrack. Or there are going to be complications. Apologies, accepted or not, do not fix past problems between a company and its customers as they are not on a friendship basis.
Even if they are sincere this time, too late is too late.
I will write a report later on but the matches and scores are:
Nahiri control 2-0
The pilot was someone who is pretty familiar with the modern meta, but match one he got stuck at 3 lands.
Match two was won on the shoulders of root maze + early critters. He had nothing to do both matches. Maybe a mulligan decision in the 1st one.
Death and taxes 2-1
The pilot was a bit inexperienced with the deck. Didnt use vault of the archangel effectively when he could game 1 and arbiters arrived late. Game three he had a good hand but turn 2 torpor orb pretty much hosed all his starting hand and that did it.
Bring to light scapeshift 1-2
Player on worlds team. Very experienced and seasoned. However, match 1 was a turn 4 win with a landslide. Matches 2 and three I sided in 3 root mazes but he was playing only 2 fetches and a timely reinforcements sealed it in match 3.
Nayaburn 2-0
Match one was pretty easy as I was the aggro which was a surprise on the 2 year player's side. Match two he made the mistake of leaving an E1 on bf me at 4 while he was at 11 or so. I vines the E1, attack for one while he's tapped out and feed the clan up to 14, leaving him at 6. As he had one card in hand I know that I wont die. He draws a creature. I dismember it and attack with geist + vines ftw.
Got third place. I ran root maze x3 in Sb with mixed success. No narnams and fetches.
Overall, I can say that I got lucky, but that would be an underestimation. The deck is weak against combo and I wanted to mitigate it by putting them at unease with maze. However, it is a double edged sword and it can't be used with the fetch build. The more fetches the opponents play the better although sometimes you don't even need it. The real need is the 1 mana, mono green kird ape variant as usual. All cards performed as expected, Rancor more than any other. The SB is a meta call as there was a boggles deck. The root mazes were the same, but they became relevant only in two matches (nahiri, nayaburn), in one of which I haven't really needed them (naya burn). The 4 color scapeshift deck really surprised me in running 2 fetches, but that's either because I don't test much these days, or the player don't have the fetches.
Keep stomping and here is the list:
4x dryad militant
4x strangleroot geist
4x avatar of the resolute
3x scavenging ooze
3x dungrove elder
3x Leatherback baloth
4x vines of vastwood
3x aspect of hydra
1x blossoming defense
2x dismember
20x forest
1x treetop village
3x root maze
2x gut shot
2x feed the clan
2x natural state
2x deglamer
1x back to nature
1x thrun, the last troll
I agree with BbearZ and Epitaph Blade on the 1 drop we still need. If we had something less conditional like Skyshroud Elite, with evasion or deathtouch, something less conditional than the Narnam Renegade, we could probably be in a better position. I am saying probably because I haven't had the chance to test the deck properly for a long time like 3 months. Sure I played a few games at the LGS and against my friends but never a tournament in 3 months. So when I am speaking from experience and not testing against the current meta, please pardon my lack of devotion these days (no puns). I used to play 2x Wasteland Vipers to deter or ambush the big creatures and evolve E1, but as it did not evolve it beyond 2 toughness, and more importantly, because we could not use it outside of our combat step I stopped using it. Had it been like "G, discard Wasteland Viper: Target creature gets +1/+2 and deathtouch UEOT", I would still be using it today. Also, it is worth noting how colors other than the creature color are outshining green: Black has tasigur, white has a plethora of prot., 1strike, grow by trigger creatures, red has the best haste, colorless has eldrazi abominations and Wurmcoil Engine. The fact that the deck is performning poorly is because it is trying do a lot of fair thing against a meta that is getting more degenerate with power creep every day. In addition to Skyshroud ELite and the fixed Wasteland Viper, I would gladly play a one drop root maze on 2/1 or 1/2 legs against such a meta, but no luck because people and their decks with fetches, tarmogoyfs and the other archetypes keep getting supported one set after the other and we get a one drop that encourages to also play fetches! I am sorry if I am sounding sentimental, but that is not the stompy way. I used to run 4x verdant catacombs to fetch dryad arbors to chump, surprise back attack, or kill unsuspecting x/1s. But I took them out and put them into my edh decks. For me this deck was born from the leftover uncommons from drafts and dollar bin rare trades. It was born as a reaction and punishment to all the money decks. The fact that most of the deck's popularity stems from its cost-efficiency is still a huge factor when I am considering cards for it because in the past when I introduced it to new players, that was the selling point. Now, I feel that accessibility and cost-efficiency are degrading.
As for the aspect argument, I don't
thinklike that this deck has to rely on Aspect of Hydra to win in general. But it makes up for the lack of damage we could not deal in the previous turns that built up to that point. The thing I do not like about it is that we need to have at least a total of 4 green symbols on the BF in order to justify its value over giant growth and the amount of good removal spread around all colors but green (still waiting for that instant prey upon) makes me worried. So I can't say I have a clear opinion about it but if we have better creatures that our opponents cant also have (basic land triggers, static boosts related to basic forests), we would feel less dependant on our version of Hatred.Sorry for the long post. I had some free time and I broke up from my routine a bit today to spare some time.
Keep stomping and I will join in active testing soon.
Lands (esp.cycle lands)
The Gitrog Monster
Skirge Familiar
Shadow of the Grave
+_____________________
Profit
Also, Throne of the God-Pharaoh post combat for the win? Because that looks like a very surprising way to mop up games to me.
- Rise from the tides
- Army of the Damned
- Natural Affinity
or just play elves or other aggro with tokens or recursion.
Good job wizards.
RuinEnchance the game more with colorless life loss at 2 mana that can be triggered by nearly all decks.I will get 4 of and win with the above jank in Edh. You are free to try it in other formats because why not?! O.o ahahaha
There you said it. You can ignore pws and go for lethal on the opponent normally. But this, no. First you need to get through the gideon and when I say the Gideon I mean that your opponent can pack 8x of them and removal and lifegain on top of the Gideons. This is an abomination. A pw on steroids. We don't need things like that. We need more balanced cards and the people who say they listen to feedback do not actually care. Players do not need cancerous cards like this. 0 for a platinum angel ability is too much. They could have at least made it cost -1 but they did not. Some can say "flavor requires him to be powerful" But flavor can be balanced too. Why do you think that it costs 0? Why can't we attack into it with a 2/2 and kill it? Why can't we burn it out with shock? Why does the Gideon player has so little to think about while the gideonless one has to jump hurdles to kill it? Pushed is pushed. You gotta admit, sometimes.
My thoughts exactly. And in modern there are so many other things that can protect him. Emblems should not be thrown around like they are nothing, in my opinion. Don't even get me started on planeswalker cards...
I think there'd still be room to push for a 0 mana Karn after that one because money.
Recur him with Eternal Witness, Sun Titan, etc.
Play his brothers,
Protect him with protection(?!) effects,
Opponent flips table,
Happy now?
Don't forget to pray to people at Wizards and the corp.
pffft
You might want to look into Blisterpod or Tukatongue Thallid or Brindle Shoat. I think the exemplar of strength might have a go with them if you also use mutagenic growth so that after an attack for 3 on turn 2 you can lay it down and have 5 power turn 3, but you are doing the work for the opponent by killing your own creature so I guess they are not what the deck wants. You might also go with Fate Transfer if you really enjoy jankiness like I used to do but then there is always Sheltering ANcient for those times : P
Also, also see: Torpor Orb.dec with Eater of Days and Levelers and the such if you want to play a high risk high reward deck.
I came here to comment on this issue.
A zombie is a walking desecration.
A zombie is:
1) Mockery of life,
2) made by powers that are playing god,
3) is not possible without disturbing the dead.
Perhaps they should have gone with a new creature type like the actual Mummy or perhaps I've gotten too old.
Creatures that can't even pass the Dark Banishing test are becoming zombies, what has the world come to...