I would like to draw attention to this analysis by DeadPresident2910:
"Ok fair enough, I'm not knocking your preferences or what you find fun or satisfying. What I'm saying is what you want to use the lands for and what's actually making them problematic are two different things, and further (and unfortunately) the fact that some minor percentage of people want to use the lands to do fair things like reduce a 10CMC creature to 8CMC won't be considered when they make their ban. That's like me saying all I want to do to in my Amulet Bloom deck is ramp up to as many 2/2 bears as possible in my opening turn because I found it fun. That's irrelevant when other people understand how to maximize its application and get a Primeval Titan into play T2 through a Remand on the draw.
It's possible to make any number of banned cards seem innocuous by saying "I'm only trying to do this cool thing, not break it", but unfortunately the people "Just doing cool things" are in the minority, and most people are just trying to replicate the lists that destroyed PTOGW and make playing fair magic a distinct impossibility.
Big creature decks aren't an issue, if the costs they pay to play the creatures are scaled to the size of the creatures. When a pair of lands can make smaller creatures unfair or heavily under-costed, that's a problem. When something like a T2 TKS is possible, which is a functional Clique except it has +1/+3 and comes down a turn earlier, that's a problem. The same thing goes for an effective 3CMC Thundermaw Hellkite in Reality Smasher. It's also problematic because the Eldrazi ignore the color pie, TKS is essentially a black/blue effect card, while Smasher is effectively a red/green/blue card. It's patently absurd when colorless creatures have all the benefit associated with a certain color and no drawback, in addition to becoming far cheaper than worse equivalents in the actual colors.
I believe it was Brian Braun-Duin that recently said something along the lines of playing this Eldrazi list feels like playing a Legacy deck in Modern. It's bringing a tank to a knife fight."
Last edited by DeadPresident2910: 1 day ago
I can't say how much I agree with the paragraph beginning with "Big creature decks..." and the last sentence.
The bannings in the past have been to keep the degeneracy in check. Wizards now bans a card to promote variety but achieves the opposite. I think they are not putting a lot of effort to balance modern and make it a healthy format or this is a deliberate decision to help sell the latest product. I want to lean on the first and keep the tinfoil for cooking.
First, you can't promote variety by banning a single card. Sure, people will move on to play the closest color combinations but they will be watered down or less powerful versions.
Second, the way to create variety is by printing new cards that can take the tier 2 decks or developing deck up a notch. But, this requires to monitor the meta with a small but dedicated team. Given how they read the meta Channel Fireball's modern team could do that, for example. Then, all you need to do is print cards that can improve the said tier 2/developing decks. Having said that you don't need to push strategies, they should just go with the flow and flavour of whatever the current set is and tuck in a card here and there, being a little more generous if the card will make an otherwise losing strategy more favorable. There are a ton of archetypes and decks which haven't gotten any love since forever or just a teaspoon at a time, while some decks are constantly getting tons of good stuff, or like in this case, either being deliberately shoved into the meta or come stumbling in like an elephant in a China shop.
Last, if the smaller Eldrazi that were printed in OGW were playtested I think we wouldn't have this mess know. There is the possibility of them being playtested and still make it, but that possibilty tends to make you branded with "tinfoil hatter" so I won't get into that. If they need to ban cards to keep this deck in check I think they must be the Eldrazi Mimic and Endless One. Noone is going to miss them outside this deck and they won't have the degenerate hands worse than affinity and back it up with the Rock quality disruption + fatties. They will still have a good mid and late game, but they will lack the early pressure which they shouldn't have had in the first place. A deck shouldn't dominate in all phases of the game. If those two don't stop the deck, then the next season they can still ban the Eye of Ugin, which reduces costs by 2 without even tapping. If, let's say, a legendary land like this existed "Green Ooze spells cost GG less to play" would it be overpowered? how about a "Green Shaman spells cost GG less to play" and mind you your average ooze and shaman don't have 10/10 bodies, and spells to back it up. Yet we can give the Eye and other fair decks that use it a chance.
in the past years wizard also ban standard legal cards: shaman and Treasure Cruise for example..
Now is too soon to talk about ban, but shaman was banned because jund maked 5 or 6 decks in a gp top 8 (but the gp was winned by melira..), also melira was banned because after the shaman ban and rhino print maked multiple top 8 in large events with lots of decks. Twin was banned because win 2 protour.
This deck at the first appearance do 6 on 8 in a protour top8, the other 2 decks was in top 8 for some fortunately pairings, because in one moment was 8 eldrazi in top 8. No jund, no twin, no melira do the same at their first appearance in a tounament like a PT.
So affinity save Wizard, because what can Wotc say if 8 eldrazi come in top 8 after 20 days ago they ban twin "for to safeguard the variety of the format"?
Ok, this is the first event, but were is the variety? in the choice colorless or UR? Possible that when they tried the new cards before releasing them, nobody see that the interaction: overpowered colorless creature + eldrazi temple + eye of ugin was insane? I cant belive this, specially after the spoiler of LSV on the twin ban. CFB team build and try this deck not in the last 20 days after the twin ban, but probaly they work on this decks for months sure of the ban of twin. And i say this also whatching the Reid Duke jund list, he has tech for the colorless eldrazi mu to pump a goyf for deal aginst reality smasher. For me this mean that for sure the CFB team know about the ban of twin before the ban, because colorless has no card for twin and the strategy of the deck is for not have interaction with twin. How is it possible? They can't create this deck before the full spoiler of OTG in december when twin was legal and NOBODY expecting the ban. And i dont' think that a pro players team in december build a deck for the protour of February with a strategy that just loose from a tier1 like twin and also i don't think that they create this deck on 19th January and star testing it from the 20th. Dont kidding me!
Imho this PT was the biggest marketing operation of Wizard history (hey little boy now you can win a modern pro tour with your standard deck + 10 old cards like the pro players!), but the lowest point of competitive magic play. And probably, after selling a lot o OTG booster they say " we must safeguard the variety of the format so eye of ugin is now banned"
my two cents
Agree on every word.
Deck variety and diversity my baloth's bottoms! Greed is destroys formats, not decks or cards.
Pod is banned??? At last we will see more stompy and burn. Now the only value deck that is left is Junk and the only other creature deck faster than us is affinity.
1/3 of the battlefield is ours now!!!
In my opinion, one of the greatest advantage of this deck is that you're not totally dependent on one specific creature or one card. You can't prevent your Exp One from getting pathed, but you still have a lot of creatures to cast and you can win one turn (to cast a big Baloth or Thrun for example) thanks to the additionnal land.
Also each path pumps Dungrove Elder and enables free rancors, aspects, vines kickers...
Outside of white tax, I thank the path players : D
Except if it's any ETB trigger then it's been nullified since it's already in play. No Lightning Helix will be attached to that Rhino if it's been Manifest with Reality Shift.
BUT you draw your opponent a card! Instead of drawing that rhino he got it drawn by your card at the cost of loosing its ETB ability. Don't forget that this way your opponent has a 2/2 in play (with 0 mana investment and 0 card investment), which can become potentially bigger and he could have gotten another usefull card, which was below the rhino.
And most people arguing about how you can "nullify" a bolt or reduce the value of a rhino - the same argument can be made for the other side - you could also just have turned a completely useless land into a 2/2 creature and improved your opponents draw step (because you removed the useless card from the top of his library).
The effect of the manifest is random and while it can sometimes hurt your oppoennt it can also benefit him greatly!
Hmmm I hadn't looked at it that way. Thx for the insight.
Sorry about that Sheepz. I've just never seen it cast at instant speed : D
Like I said: I like the card. I'm not complaining about anything. It's just that I think blue should get its counterspell like it used to do and other colors should get their cursed scrollz or ashes to ashes or things like that.
I will just say that unless this gets banned in Modern it will be as expensive as Remand some day, that's all.
- An aggro deck consists of 40-45% "creature cards" and 60%-55% non-creature cards.
- Most other decks have less "creature cards" than aggro decks.
- If you are an aggro deck you have less to worry about this spell, which in addition to removing your creature at instant speed in an irrecurrable way, manipulates your top deck and also possibly:
a) takes away your land drop,
b) shrinks a bigger creature into a 2/2,
c) neutralizes an ETB effect of a creature,
d) neutralizes an instant, sorcery, artifact, enchantment, or planeswalker,
e) grows a 0/1, 1/1, or other weak creature into a 2/2.
Now if you are not an aggro deck the chances of a) and d) happening are higher although it depends on your initial 7 and draws until your creature is exiled with this spell.
I wonder if this really counts as a "genuine polymorph spell" or hard removal with an occasional upside disguised as a polymorph spell.
With that logic, Thought Scour has to be the best card ever. Just target your opponent and you get a) and d) twice!
- You can flashback an instant or sorcery with Snapcaster Mage or return it to your hand with effects like Eternal Witness has. This turns them into something which makes it impossible for you to interact with them until they hit the graveyard.
- Thought Scour is a sorcery that does not exile one of your creatures outright and then mill target player for two. If it did that at instant speed, it would be great, too.
- Thought Scour is a usual effect for its color. It is not usual for blue to have efficient removal with a mostly beneficial effect.
I like this card. I like it a lot for its efficiency, combo potential, and for exploring new horizons. But I also think that it will be a chase uncommon. I am possibly wrong and you might have a different prediction that might involve different ways of thinking. I'm just here to say what I think about the card, so let's just wait and see.
Have a nice evening and don't forget to gather your playset.
I will just say that unless this gets banned in Modern it will be as expensive as Remand some day, that's all.
- An aggro deck consists of 40-45% "creature cards" and 60%-55% non-creature cards.
- Most other decks have less "creature cards" than aggro decks.
- If you are an aggro deck you have less to worry about this spell, which in addition to removing your creature at instant speed in an irrecurrable way, manipulates your top deck and also possibly:
a) takes away your land drop,
b) shrinks a bigger creature into a 2/2,
c) neutralizes an ETB effect of a creature,
d) neutralizes an instant, sorcery, artifact, enchantment, or planeswalker,
e) grows a 0/1, 1/1, or other weak creature into a 2/2.
Now if you are not an aggro deck the chances of a) and d) happening are higher although it depends on your initial 7 and draws until your creature is exiled with this spell.
I wonder if this really counts as a "genuine polymorph spell" or hard removal with an occasional upside disguised as a polymorph spell.
This is admittedly not the most important use but... Does that mean Norin the Wary can finally connect in combat?
I first smiled and then lolled at this.
At long last Norin finds Alesha, Who Smiles at Death, a fellow warrior from a strange land, who helps him "connect". lolol
Can someone explain why cards like this (OP at Mythic) are considered cash grabs?
Don't most packs get open up by drafters?
So why is it relevant? Honestly curious about the economics.
It's because before Mythic Rarity was a thing...this card would have been simply another Rare card in the set. But with Mythic being a thing we now have Wizards essentially splitting Rare power level cards into two slots for mostly arbitrary reasons. Lots of Mythic Rare cards are HORRIBLE in Limited or are extremely weak in that format. Ugin's Nexus and The Chain Veil are basically useless in Limited. Maze's End is another card that's Mythic and also horrible in Limited. Lotus Cobra likely wasn't causing tables to be flipped over in rage. There are tons of weak Mythics in Limited and tons of bomb Rares and even Common/Uncommon cards.
Enter the Infinite and Jin-Gitaxias aren't doing anything in Limited. But those are Mythics because they are major story based cards, have potential for powerful Eternal combos and interactions, and are better off being Mythic so that they don't appear more often in Limited as useless cards. In some ways Wizards wants terrible cards that are storyline based or clearly built for Eternal formats at Mythic so as not to pollute Limited and waste a Rare slot that a Standard staple card could occupy.
If Pack Rat is a Rare then this card doesn't need to be Mythic to balance out Sealed and Draft. Monastery Mentor looks like it should be great in Standard/Block and probably good in Eternal formats. But it could have been a Rare just as easily. And this card looks to be a Standard killer and likely a card that will get tested in Eternal formats for a few months if not years looking for decks that can use it or be built around it. Wizards knows this and rather than making the card a Rare and therefore more often opened they made it a Mythic meaning people need to crack more packs to get them on the secondary markets or in their collections.
Thanks man. Well-said.
I hate cards like these: Rares becoming Mythics on steroids.
I can't say how much I agree with the paragraph beginning with "Big creature decks..." and the last sentence.
The bannings in the past have been to keep the degeneracy in check. Wizards now bans a card to promote variety but achieves the opposite. I think they are not putting a lot of effort to balance modern and make it a healthy format or this is a deliberate decision to help sell the latest product. I want to lean on the first and keep the tinfoil for cooking.
First, you can't promote variety by banning a single card. Sure, people will move on to play the closest color combinations but they will be watered down or less powerful versions.
Second, the way to create variety is by printing new cards that can take the tier 2 decks or developing deck up a notch. But, this requires to monitor the meta with a small but dedicated team. Given how they read the meta Channel Fireball's modern team could do that, for example. Then, all you need to do is print cards that can improve the said tier 2/developing decks. Having said that you don't need to push strategies, they should just go with the flow and flavour of whatever the current set is and tuck in a card here and there, being a little more generous if the card will make an otherwise losing strategy more favorable. There are a ton of archetypes and decks which haven't gotten any love since forever or just a teaspoon at a time, while some decks are constantly getting tons of good stuff, or like in this case, either being deliberately shoved into the meta or come stumbling in like an elephant in a China shop.
Last, if the smaller Eldrazi that were printed in OGW were playtested I think we wouldn't have this mess know. There is the possibility of them being playtested and still make it, but that possibilty tends to make you branded with "tinfoil hatter" so I won't get into that. If they need to ban cards to keep this deck in check I think they must be the Eldrazi Mimic and Endless One. Noone is going to miss them outside this deck and they won't have the degenerate hands worse than affinity and back it up with the Rock quality disruption + fatties. They will still have a good mid and late game, but they will lack the early pressure which they shouldn't have had in the first place. A deck shouldn't dominate in all phases of the game. If those two don't stop the deck, then the next season they can still ban the Eye of Ugin, which reduces costs by 2 without even tapping. If, let's say, a legendary land like this existed "Green Ooze spells cost GG less to play" would it be overpowered? how about a "Green Shaman spells cost GG less to play" and mind you your average ooze and shaman don't have 10/10 bodies, and spells to back it up. Yet we can give the Eye and other fair decks that use it a chance.
Thanks for reading.
Agree on every word.
Deck variety and diversity my baloth's bottoms!
Greed is destroys formats, not decks or cards.
1/3 of the battlefield is ours now!!!
Also each path pumps Dungrove Elder and enables free rancors, aspects, vines kickers...
Outside of white tax, I thank the path players : D
from my other post:
Some ideas:
- Spam Trostani's Summoner every turn.
- Master of Cruelties where are you?
- Undergrowth Scavenger is OK in standard?
- Doran, the Siege Tower - Alesha who grins at trees? >:)
- Scalpelexis mill
- Avalanche Riders recursion,
- Brass Herald with Warriors,
- Duplicant removal,
- Ardent Militia tapdance,
- Balefire Liege pumps,
- Clone Shell combo???
- Siege-Gang Commander recursion,
- Saffi Eriksdotter recursion,
I guess some Generator Servant, Faithless Looting, Master of Cruelties deck is worth a shot as servants die to get Alesha in play with haste who in turn can bring master or servant back and so on...
Hmmm I hadn't looked at it that way. Thx for the insight.
Like I said: I like the card. I'm not complaining about anything. It's just that I think blue should get its counterspell like it used to do and other colors should get their cursed scrollz or ashes to ashes or things like that.
- You can flashback an instant or sorcery with Snapcaster Mage or return it to your hand with effects like Eternal Witness has. This turns them into something which makes it impossible for you to interact with them until they hit the graveyard.
- Thought Scour is a sorcery that does not exile one of your creatures outright and then mill target player for two. If it did that at instant speed, it would be great, too.
- Thought Scour is a usual effect for its color. It is not usual for blue to have efficient removal with a mostly beneficial effect.
I like this card. I like it a lot for its efficiency, combo potential, and for exploring new horizons. But I also think that it will be a chase uncommon. I am possibly wrong and you might have a different prediction that might involve different ways of thinking. I'm just here to say what I think about the card, so let's just wait and see.
Have a nice evening and don't forget to gather your playset.
- An aggro deck consists of 40-45% "creature cards" and 60%-55% non-creature cards.
- Most other decks have less "creature cards" than aggro decks.
- If you are an aggro deck you have less to worry about this spell, which in addition to removing your creature at instant speed in an irrecurrable way, manipulates your top deck and also possibly:
a) takes away your land drop,
b) shrinks a bigger creature into a 2/2,
c) neutralizes an ETB effect of a creature,
d) neutralizes an instant, sorcery, artifact, enchantment, or planeswalker,
e) grows a 0/1, 1/1, or other weak creature into a 2/2.
Now if you are not an aggro deck the chances of a) and d) happening are higher although it depends on your initial 7 and draws until your creature is exiled with this spell.
I wonder if this really counts as a "genuine polymorph spell" or hard removal with an occasional upside disguised as a polymorph spell.
I first smiled and then lolled at this.
At long last Norin finds Alesha, Who Smiles at Death, a fellow warrior from a strange land, who helps him "connect". lolol
Reminded me of Ronal the Barbarian.
- Spam Trostani's Summoner every turn.
- Master of Cruelties where are you?
- Undergrowth Scavenger is OK in standard?
- Doran, the Siege Tower - Alesha who grins at trees? >:)
- Scalpelexis mill
- Avalanche Riders recursion,
- Brass Herald with Warriors,
- Duplicant removal,
- Ardent Militia tapdance,
- Balefire Liege pumps,
- Clone Shell combo???
- Siege-Gang Commander recursion,
- Saffi Eriksdotter recursion,
I guess some Generator Servant, Faithless Looting, Master of Cruelties deck is worth a shot as servants die to get Alesha in play with haste who in turn can bring master or servant back and so on...
Edit: Multinathed but whatever.
Thanks man. Well-said.
I hate cards like these: Rares becoming Mythics on steroids.
P.S. Say hello to Master of Waves of the year. pffft