if 1 drop aggressive decks will be punished too much. I could see a world where 1 drop aggressive decks would need to rely more on cards like Bedlam Reveler, Treasure Cruise, Hazoret the Fervent, Armageddon, Experimental Frenzy to take advantage of their low CMC + tempo rather than ability to play 1 drops unanswered.
I think this is a reasonable concern - it's been on my mind as well. We may have some time, as wtwlf points out, and really we might not want to go wild before having the chance to actually play these cards and just observe how things go ... but it's probably worth thinking about. Do you think 1-drop density will need to be boosted? Should we try to find more cards as potent as Armageddon to help top aggro off? Both? Probably worth a thread but I'm not sure how to really kick off that discussion.
I would like the latter. I personally would revisit some of the higher CMC cuts such as Experimental Frenzy that was great for Red Aggro/ Green-Red lands, but was ultimately cut because the cube cannot support too many high CMC options.
I like the trend that the general curve of the cube is trending downwards with more efficient lower CMC spells + flexible alternative cast spells. There are a lot more answers for the artifact fast mana, planeswalkers/ reanimator targets allowing aggressive strategies to be more disruptive than purely aggressive.
I'm reconsidering a new organization such that hybrid color cards are counted as half a green/ black card instead of a golgari card. I don't see why the same restrictions should apply for Deathrite Shaman and Grim Flayer when the former is a lot more playable than the latter.
I've been thinking about the reorganization, but I think it should roughly look like this:
- Hybrid -> 0.5 Towards each color section
- Flashback -> 0.5 Towards front half, 0.5 towards the hybrid section -> Lingering Souls is 0.5 towards white, 0.5 towards Orzhov
- Card exclusively played for one half -> 0.5 Towards one half, 0.5 Towards Hybrid -> Life // Death - Although this is Golgari, this is primarily a mono black card, but occasionally the latter comes up in aristocrats. I would count this as half black, half Golgari,
- Tap for another color -> 0.5 Towards front half, 0.5 towards hybrid -> Avacyn's Pilgrim - I would count this as half green, half Selesyna.
Contains both in the casting cost -> Then it is a hybrid.
I been considering this reorganization after how much I've noticed Selesyna is punished after almost all its cards are hybrid color mana. This isn't perfect as there is an argument that Deathrite should be more golgari as he needs both black and green to function effectively.
if 1 drop aggressive decks will be punished too much. I could see a world where 1 drop aggressive decks would need to rely more on cards like Bedlam Reveler, Treasure Cruise, Hazoret the Fervent, Armageddon, Experimental Frenzy to take advantage of their low CMC + tempo rather than ability to play 1 drops unanswered.
- Bant/ UW Flicker often struggle with interacting with their opponent given their high CMC + flicker generating more card advantage than tempo
- Play vs Draw - Force of Will is unusual in that it rewards the player on the draw. If I'm playing a white deck, I would almost always 2 for 1 myself on the draw to remove a mana dork. I would love to see more designs that favor players on the draw than the play
- Provides interactions vs reanimator/ speak attack. Adds more back and forth
My only concern right now is its impact on aggressive strategies - Do aggressive decks need to focus more on tokens/ aristocrats rather than 1 drops?
This card is hot fire. And it's baller with Sedgemoor Witch!
OMG YES!
I love how many cards in this set are great for the aggressive blue deck (1-2 CMC counter magic) and the hard blue control decks (3-4 CM hard counter spells)
This thing seems very hard to deal with - there's not many exile effects for an indestructible artifact in most cubes so this will have a lot of inevitability. There will be times when this is reasonably oppressive.
Is cutting Karn Liberated for this card crazy? I'm not sure it is.
I'm not big on Karn these days ... It just feels way too slow and way to easy to remove these days.
I was never a fan of DRS in a 720 card cube because of the low density of fetches, but I’m starting to think that it could be worth it if only for the GY disruption, lifegain, and reach. Curious if anyone has feedback on how this card works if you assume you’re not activating the make mana ability.
This card has been on my mind for a while now, especially given the night and day difference between a birds of paradise + Sakura Tribe Scout. With Ignoble Hierarch in my cube, I feel i'm getting close to the density of 1 drop mana dorks I find optimal and I would like to cut all the 2 drop at this point.
It obviously lacks the fetch land consistency for eternal formats and is far from a Birds of Paradise and been consistency cut from cube's for this reason.
But I would argue this is slightly stronger than a Gilded Goose as there are roughly 25 or so lands that go to the graveyard (Mirage Fetches, Fetches, Terramorphic Expanse, Canopy Lands, Wasteland etc.), Aristocrats is a viable archetype and just having a body on the field that can occasionally disrupt the opponent and drain for 4-6 damage over the course of the game is good and with more graveyard synergies showing up, a counter play should be necessary.
I would count him as half a 1 drop aggro creature + half a mana dork in my calculations when considering cuts.
Could someone explain the first ability? Does it mean if ts a creature in your hand/ deck/ graveyard and you can recur it/ GSZ for it?
But OMG the first, second and even the third ability. THIS IS AMAZING. This is just absolutely perfect for an aristocrat deck. It has a built in removal engine, token engine and its ultimate could be used after sacrificing your board for 5-6 damage.
I would like the latter. I personally would revisit some of the higher CMC cuts such as Experimental Frenzy that was great for Red Aggro/ Green-Red lands, but was ultimately cut because the cube cannot support too many high CMC options.
I like the trend that the general curve of the cube is trending downwards with more efficient lower CMC spells + flexible alternative cast spells. There are a lot more answers for the artifact fast mana, planeswalkers/ reanimator targets allowing aggressive strategies to be more disruptive than purely aggressive.
The OP made a clear point we should evaluate this as almost exclusively as a 3 mana 3/4, when it attacks draw a card.
But I do agree with your point - Blue 3 CMC is incredibly stacked. I would give the edge to more interesting cards when deciding cuts.
I've been thinking about the reorganization, but I think it should roughly look like this:
- Hybrid -> 0.5 Towards each color section
- Flashback -> 0.5 Towards front half, 0.5 towards the hybrid section -> Lingering Souls is 0.5 towards white, 0.5 towards Orzhov
- Card exclusively played for one half -> 0.5 Towards one half, 0.5 Towards Hybrid -> Life // Death - Although this is Golgari, this is primarily a mono black card, but occasionally the latter comes up in aristocrats. I would count this as half black, half Golgari,
- Tap for another color -> 0.5 Towards front half, 0.5 towards hybrid -> Avacyn's Pilgrim - I would count this as half green, half Selesyna.
Contains both in the casting cost -> Then it is a hybrid.
I been considering this reorganization after how much I've noticed Selesyna is punished after almost all its cards are hybrid color mana. This isn't perfect as there is an argument that Deathrite should be more golgari as he needs both black and green to function effectively.
- Solitude
- Flame Tongue Yearling
- Damn
- Portable Hole
- Subtlety
- Prismatic Ending
if 1 drop aggressive decks will be punished too much. I could see a world where 1 drop aggressive decks would need to rely more on cards like Bedlam Reveler, Treasure Cruise, Hazoret the Fervent, Armageddon, Experimental Frenzy to take advantage of their low CMC + tempo rather than ability to play 1 drops unanswered.
- Bant/ UW Flicker often struggle with interacting with their opponent given their high CMC + flicker generating more card advantage than tempo
- Play vs Draw - Force of Will is unusual in that it rewards the player on the draw. If I'm playing a white deck, I would almost always 2 for 1 myself on the draw to remove a mana dork. I would love to see more designs that favor players on the draw than the play
- Provides interactions vs reanimator/ speak attack. Adds more back and forth
My only concern right now is its impact on aggressive strategies - Do aggressive decks need to focus more on tokens/ aristocrats rather than 1 drops?
OMG YES!
I love how many cards in this set are great for the aggressive blue deck (1-2 CMC counter magic) and the hard blue control decks (3-4 CM hard counter spells)
I like this a lot too. With Shallow Grave, this is 12 damage (6 points of drain), Discard 2 cards, Sacrifice 2, draw 2 cards.
I'm not big on Karn these days ... It just feels way too slow and way to easy to remove these days.
Interestingly enough, I've found Hordeling Outburst to be fairly good rate in aristocrats/ polymorph/ Embercleave/ Gaea's Cradle for cube.
This is really good but right now blue 3 CMC is so stacked its not a hornet's nest I would like to open as of right now ...
This card has been on my mind for a while now, especially given the night and day difference between a birds of paradise + Sakura Tribe Scout. With Ignoble Hierarch in my cube, I feel i'm getting close to the density of 1 drop mana dorks I find optimal and I would like to cut all the 2 drop at this point.
It obviously lacks the fetch land consistency for eternal formats and is far from a Birds of Paradise and been consistency cut from cube's for this reason.
But I would argue this is slightly stronger than a Gilded Goose as there are roughly 25 or so lands that go to the graveyard (Mirage Fetches, Fetches, Terramorphic Expanse, Canopy Lands, Wasteland etc.), Aristocrats is a viable archetype and just having a body on the field that can occasionally disrupt the opponent and drain for 4-6 damage over the course of the game is good and with more graveyard synergies showing up, a counter play should be necessary.
I would count him as half a 1 drop aggro creature + half a mana dork in my calculations when considering cuts.
My thoughts too but the problem is we're cutting another reanimator/ natural order target. What to replace it with ..
But OMG the first, second and even the third ability. THIS IS AMAZING. This is just absolutely perfect for an aristocrat deck. It has a built in removal engine, token engine and its ultimate could be used after sacrificing your board for 5-6 damage.