In general the deck is great, the Golgari Charm main handles business against, elves which is an ever growing pain in the ass in my meta, as well as affinity, as well as hitting both Blood Moon and Twin, its just a good card even if all it does is regenerate your whole team from a sweeper. Also Greater Gargadon proved himself in spades on Friday, rarely do I actually see him on T1, but when I do it simply opens up so many more options, its a running joke in the metagme with my friends who get together on the weekend to play is that Greater Gargadon is basically a spine-breaking hype train, which is rather apt since its largely the hype or fear of the the gargadon that does more work then the actual body itself does, a very interesting dynamic to be sure.
I've also been reading a couple pages back on this thread and have found that apparently Bloodghasts are bad now? Thats odd since I love them, mind you, in my deck I have lots of reasons to keep playing them, since by going wide with more smaller creature I'm less at risk of getting wrecked by Path or counter spells, and my small creatures can still go over top of bigger ones because of Ghor-Clan Rampager, not to mention having Tymaret and Greater Gargadon gives extra uses for smaller creatures even when they can't do anything else in the game, really I just don't see where all the hate is coming from.
Going forward I'm going to make some simple yet necessary changes to the deck, if Elves keeps being a thing in my Meta I think I'm going to move Tymaret to the sideboard and move a Darkblast to the Mainboard.
Also I'm going to find replacements for the Torpor Orbs in my sideboard which are very outdated, if I can find another Fulimator Mage plus maybe putting another abrupt decay in in their place, perhaps that will be what I need.
Aside from that the only other concern I perhaps have with the deck is the mana base which is extremely greedy, I once thought Blood Moon would be my kryptonite, however after playing against it multiple times I'm simply not scared of it anymore, I have a couple mainboard answers and even if they don't work I have a myriad of Sideboard answers as well so I can always hold up Abrupt Decay or Golgari Charm mana.
Anywho thats my report, if anyone has feedback on my list its more then welcome.
Great job on the 3-1! I agree that the list does look like it is going in a lot of directions. That said, it is definitely on the aggressive side of decks posted here and a lot of the cards listed have been discussed here. A couple of ideas for the build itself:
Rotting Rats over Dregscape Zombie. I am always impressed how flexible that card can be. The 1-2 discard effects can really upset certain decks and is a good way to keep the dredge engine going on T2 (Since T1/T3 have faithless looting). With that additional flexibility, the extra mana to unearth is often enough to warrant a slot over the Dregscape.
Pyrewild Shaman over Ghor-Clan Rampager. This might just be horrible, but being able to buy him back seems reasonable. Since I don't know the lines of your build superwell, I can't say for sure. If the trample is the crucial part of Rampager, then its probably worse. But if you are just looking for a cheap pump that can sometimes be a creature, being able to buy it back when dredged seems pretty spicy
The lack of a basic swamp to fetch seems pretty scary. I would play it over the basic mountain, since you won't need red in a Blood Moon Scenario and there is a heavy black lean on the deck BB for Bloodghast,2xGravecrawler,Gravecrawler+Dregscape Zombie, etc.
Golgari Charm main deck is interesting, since I find myself boarding it in very commonly. I do think that Abrupt Decay is very commonly doing a lot of heavy lifting a deserves slots before it. The fact that it can hit any permanent, including crucial creatures in nearly every deck, enchantments like Rest in Peace, Blood Moon and all of Boggles, and artifacts like Grafdigger's Cage, Amulet of Vigor, Æther Vial, and all of Affinity, makes it a key card is basically every matchup. Granted, Decay is currently quite expensive and might be the reason it is a 1-of in your deck, which is fine. Also, with all this said, Golgari Charm does help a lot with some of our bad matchups like aggro decks, all-in UR Twin, Elves, and Infect. If you expect to see them in mass in your meta, it could be worth it. But to contradict myself, Abrupt Decay is also good in all of the matchups as well.
Life from the Loam is a card I think you should only run if you have Ghost Quarter or Tectonic Edge somewhere is your 75. Especially since your build isn't trying to get to 5 mana to cast GGT, the extra mana is likely less useful to dredge up than another creature of Darkblast. That said, you do have a number of mana sinks, with Tymaret, the Murder King and Flamewake Phoenix, but I think those will come up less often. Since you have a more aggressive build, I would say either put in another creature or a removal spell.
Greater Gargadon is a card I've had my eye for matchups against Anger of the Gods and the like. Seems interesting. Although those decks are pretty sparse in my meta, it's something I might consider toying with. In your build, it seems to fill a role that Gurmag Angler seems to fill as beefy creatures other than Vengevine, although they accomplish it in quite different ways. While Angler is a zombie for Gravecrawler and a great T2/T3 play to trigger VV, Gargadon is something much more geared for the late game. Suspend 10 is a lot, even with Bloodghasts to sacrifice. I would estimate it would end up costing you 4-5 mana over the course of game if it does comes in.
With respect to Bloodghast, there are a few things that go into it. First, you basically need 4 of them or 0 of them. They are at their best when you can consistently get multiple 2/1's out as a army-in-a-can out of nowhere. With each copy cut from your deck, then their impact is significantly reduced. Given the fact that they don't trigger Vengevine when in your graveyard and are just 2/1's when cast normally, they tend to ride the coat-tails of what you are already doing, rather than enable your faster draws. Since the deck tends to puke out damage in large chunks on the turns when Vengevines trigger, the haste ability comes up more often when the engine is already chugging along. Also, they tend to get sideboarded out against a lot of decks that are able to gum up the board or where your guys need to block. They are also pretty awkward to with Delve cards. With all that said, you can skew your deck to such a build where Bloodghast can excel, which is typically some type of aggro shell or some hybrid of Loam Pox and Dredgevine. The main problem I see with a lot of the Dredgevine decks that try to go all-in fast is that Modern is full of decks that are just faster than us. In those matchups, you typically can't race them, so you need to try to disrupt them while also furthering your own game plan. We already got game against the fair decks since we blank their removal/discard spells and turn off their 2-for-1's. The deck's bad matchups has, and always will be, the fast aggro and combo decks, so shoring up those matchups are key. And so with all that, I've found that Bloodghast, while it is a card that I love and would want to play, doesn't pull its weight to be a 4-of. While this is by no means fact or the final word, these are likely the reasons why the card has been seeing less play as of late in some builds.
The fact that is comes into play tapped is pretty big, given how few lands the deck plays. As it has been mentioned about Golgari Thug, the effect can some times be actually counter-productive if you try to play it T2 with only a VV or a dredger in your yard. For special lands that only produce 1-color, there likely are better options, such as Bojuka Bog, Crypt of Agadeem, Dakmor Salvage, or some type of folkland.
Stomping Ground sounded bad everytime I drew it. Seems like any land that doesn't add black mana get's really weird. At least in the BG version with minor red splash for faithless looting and sideboard. Do you guys feel the same way? I'm thinking about cutting the single stomping ground from the deck
I agree that Stomping Ground can be pretty awkward at times, but I feel like it's sometimes a necessary evil to get T1 Faithless Looting and T2 Grisly Salvage/Lotleth Troll. As of right now, my list has only 3 lands that don't produce black (Ghost Quarter, Forest, and Stomping Ground
Dakmor Salvage sounds like an ok idea, it's a land that can be discarded in the early game and still get some value ahead, and can also be "tutored" via dredge in case we need an extra land. Still, it's a land that comes in play tapped and it sounds bad in this deck. I'm thinking of using it as a 1-of for testing.
I think Life from the Loam covers a similar axis that Dakmor Salvage as it dredges for more and can find the missing R or B source that you milled the turn you need it.
Darkblast can be really great, but in a lot of matches it is just "ok". I'm thinking of using it as a 1-of in the MD and as a 1 or 2 in the SB
Agreed, similar to Life from the Loam in the matchups its good in, its bonkers (Affinty, Infect, Elves, Delver, etc). In the other matchups, it can be pitched to Faithless looting and act as your 5/6th Dredge card.
Murderous cut sounded really weird sometimes, as I had to delve some good stuff in the GY. Been thinking about Terminate, but for now I will try just 3 abrupt and 1 murderous cut as removal in the MD.
I think you there is a total number delve cards you can have in the deck, since you typically only want to exile sorceries, lands, and non-recurring creatures. Gurmag Angler does so much work (being a bigger body than dredgevine, costing only 1 typically, and being a zombie) that they are always going to take up slots before Murderous Cut and Tasigur. Given that, I think it's worth having 1 (maybe 2) in the 75 for certain matchups where you need a condition-less removal spell.
Stinkweed Imp sounds cool as a blocker/dredger, since it can kill an attacker each turn and go back by dredging. Will try it as a 1-of for some time.
Agreed on Stinkweek Imp. I think if your build needs your dredger to also be a cheap creature, I could justify it being a 3/4-of. If your dredger is less likely to be cast in your build or your version runs Loam+more lands, then GGT might be better.
Gnaw to the bone is more a meta call as it has something between 10-20% of burn in the room. Still, I don't want to overload it as I don't wanna lose the other matches because I got a gnaw stuck in hand. 1 MD, 2 SB.
Agreed on Gnaw to the Bone. I will say that it's really good against a lot of non-burn decks: Affinity, Elves, Living End, Merfolk, Coco, Boggles, Twin after they sideout the combo, basically any deck that tries to kill you with reasonable amounts of damage.
Grisly Salvage and looting are essential for the deck, won't run less than 4 for some time, and will play with only 1 satyr wayfinder as it is ok, but the worst option between the availables IMO.
I find I like Satyr Wayfinder as it functions similar to Grisly Salvage, but triggers vengevine and is of some use when milled (Gnaw to the Bone). The ability to start T3 with a mostly empty graveyard into Satyr Wayfinder, milling delve fuel+Vengevine, then Gurmag Angler cannot be understated. Also, I may be biased since I basically never play Salvage unless it's in my opening hand, since it will always get dredged away otherwise. Since you have Bloodghast in your deck, your creature count otherwise is higher without them, so it is probably build dependent.
Fulminator mage is tutorable with salvage and looting (obviously), and also spellskite is an allstar in modern, pretty useful against a lot of decks. Will play 2 of each in the SB.
As I've said before, Spellskite it one of the best creatures in Modern and should be played in virtually every sideboard.
For Fulimator Mage and the link, the decks where you need the land destruction effects (Bloom and Tron), really require multiple lands to be destroyed since they can tutor for what they need to be cheap. That's why I've found recurring Ghost Quarter's with Life from the Loam as a tutorable (through dredging) and repeatable effect to be very consistent.
I agree 4 black cleave is too many. Also tymaret is to mana intensive in my opinion. I really like rakdos charm as a burn option against tokens and elves in addition to wincon against twin. It also helps ax both of those decks will usually side in a relic. Also I would play darkblast as it is good with most matchups with dinky 1drops. Affinity, elves, tokens, and coco.
I agree that Rakdos Charm has its uses. But I worry that if it is not being used against Twin, there are just better options for each matchup. Against relic, there is ancient grudge. Against decks that go wide, there is Darkblast, Wrath-effects, and Gnaw to the Bone. I play 1 Darkblast now MB, but a 2nd is on the list of potential sideboard cards. Also thinking potentially Leyline of the Void, Engineered Explosives, or just additional copies of what I already have (Duress, Ancient Grudge, Golgari Charm).
I would run 2 Spellskite if I had 2. Also, since Twin/Affinity isn't as prevalent in my meta, they are less cruicial. But I believe that nearly every sideboard in Modern should have 1-3 Spellskite.
Sidisi Faithful does seem like some interesting tech, although I really wish it could be a Zombie so that it could trigger T2 Vengevine with the sacrificed Gravecrawler.
For Gitaxian Probe, I feel like there is a critical mass of creatures that the deck needs to function (Gnaw to the Bone et al) and most of the list is already pretty scrunched for space. The spells the deck does play either need to be in high numbers (Faithless Looting, Abrupt Decay) or are crucial as 1-of's (Darkblast, Gnaw to the Bone). At least for my list, I'm not sure what I would want to cut for them, since they don't enable the deck any faster than a faithless looting, grisly salvage, or the like.
2-2-1 in a Modern Tournament of about 20 at local convention (2-1-1 Swiss and loss in Top 8 Semifinals) Same list as before, but I'll repost since it's a few pages back. It has been over a week since the tournament, so I don't remember the specific games that much.
R1 Myr Tron 2-0
G1 (Win) This was a tron deck that ran Palladium Myr, Myr Galvanizer and I assume Myr Battlesphere. I Abrupt Decay'd a Palladium and Galavanizer with a semi-aggresive draw. He was stuck on 2 lands, so it wasn't close.
G2 (Win) Sided in 1 Ghost Quarter, 2 Ancient Grudge (maybe 2 Rakdos Charm? I can't remember) for 2 Grisly Salvage, and probably Lightning Axes. I don't remember much from this game except killing another Palladium Myr and having a pretty fast draw. The deck seemed interesting and it eventually got in the Top 8, but this seems like a bad matchup for it.
R2 Grishoalbrand 0-2
G1 (Loss) Oof. I knew this deck existed, but didn't actually know how it worked. I got him down to 9 with a medium/slow hand, then he combo'd off with reanimating Borborygmus. I think I remember having to cast Lightning Axe on his Griselbrand just to discard a GGT. Watched him go through the whole thing just to know how to sideboard properly.
G2 (Loss) Sided in 1 Ground Seal, 1 Spellskite, 3 Duress, and 2 Rakdos Charm for 3 Abrupt Decay, 2 Lightning Axe, 1 Darkblast, 1 Life from the Loam. Didn't draw a single sideboard card, so I had to try to race. He combo'd out either T4 or T5 before I could get anything going. Ground Seal seems really good against them, although apparently they also run Through the Breach. This seems like a really tough matchup for us that may requiring mulliganing pretty aggressively.
R3 RG Tron 2-0
G1 (Win) I barely remember this match at this point. I think the only major spell he resolved was a Oblivion Stone, which did blow up a semi-significant board of 1-2 Vengvine, 2 Gravecrawler, something like a Lotleth Troll and a Satyr Wayfinder. But, I think I had another zombie in hand, so it didn't too much.
G2 (Win) Probably sided in something like 2 Ancient Grudge, 3 Duress, 1 Ghost Quarter for 1 Darkblast, 2 Lightning Axe, 1 Abrupt Decay, 2 Satyr Wayfinder. Both of our hands were pretty mediocre, but I was able to use Ghost Quarter a Tron piece to keep him on 2-3 lands. A couple of turns later, I used Life from the Loam to get back both Ghost Quarter, but didn't play them as I needed colored mana to finish him off the next turn.
R4 Draw into Top 8 Jund
Top8 Semi Elves 0-2
G1 (Loss) Both of these games were pretty close. We both had decent starts G1. I remember being able to Abrupt Decay his Elvish Archdruid, which he followed up with a Nykthos into a small creature dump. I used Ghost Quarter on the Nykthos, but he had another in hand. I feel like I remember trying to get him with Rotting Rats' discard ability when he only had 1/2 cards in hand, but it didn't pan out. Ultimately, the forest-walking Elvish Champions forced me onto the backfoot, which allowed him to find Craterhoof Behemoth to win.
G2 (Loss) Sided in 1 Pyroclasm, 1 Gnaw to the Bone, 2 Golgari Charm for 2 Grisly Salvage, 2 Lightning Axe, and 1 Life from the Loam. Golgari Charm'd on T2 to get a Arbor Elf and Elvish Visionary. His start after that was a bit slower. I was a bit slow out of the gate, so I had a few tough choices to make on either T3 or T4. He had a decent presence on board and I could Gnaw to the Bone for 8 or I could flashback faithless looting to dredge GGT's. I choice to fill the graveyard, as I didn't think he could kill me that turn and Gnaw would be a lot better later on. The dredges were pretty good and I got the other Gnaw to the Bone milled, so I'm feeling pretty good. Next turn, I Gnaw to the Bone for about 20 and got out 2 Gravecrawler and 2 Vengevine to put him dead on the next turn with no cards in his hand. He top decks a Summoner's Pact to get Craterhoof Behemoth to win with just enough. Overall, I don't think the matchup is too bad, but I think it is important to figure out if you are in a situation to race them or if you need to disrupt them. They have really good trumps with Craterhoof and Elvish Champions, so I think you can only try to disrupt them if you have a good wrath or if they only have 1 key elf (Champion, Archdruid, Heritage Druid) on T2.
Overall, still pretty happy with the deck. I've been noticing a distinct lack of T1 decks when I've been playing, which makes it confusing for preparation. So far, I have seen 0 Affinity, Delver, or Splinter Twin. I've seen 1 Grixis deck at FNM previously, but didn't face it. At this tournament, it was a Jund mirror in the finals, but one of them was borrowing the deck from someone else and doesn't normally play it. I'm feeling like I may need to shift my sideboard to prepare for more unfair decks, which are the worst matchups anyway. My current thoughts include something like -2 Rakdos Charm -1 Ground Seal.
Perhaps it is because I have only played typically faster decks, but I have yet to really use the graveyard ability of Tymaret, the Murder King. I originally had him in there to be the 2nd effect to restart the gravecrawler loop after a board wipe, but I've never had the mana/time to do it all in one turn. I'm considering swapping him out for something with more utility against the bad matchups. Current ideas I have are either Grim Lavamancer (to have repeatable removal, a similar burn-out plan that Tymaret's 1R ability game, and is a 1-drop creature) or Eternal Witness (to be a creature that is able to pick up milled sideboard spells).
Also, I found that I've been struggling to consistently get Green mana early on and have been unable to fetch any Overgrown Tombs due to dredging. Since I've never really had problems with Red past T1 and the Blackcleave cliffs are really bad to draw on T4+, I'm thinking I will swap the 4th Blackcleave cliffs for the 4th Overgrown Tomb.
It should be noted that buying into the mana base sets you up pretty well to buy into a lot of other decks (Jund, Abzhan, Grixis Delver/Control, etc).
As a weird thought, has anyone tried Tarmogoyf? It's a nonbo with Angler/Tasigur, but we play lands, creatures, instants, and sorceries, making it serve a similar role to those cards as a potential early 4/5. The fact that it isn't a zombie and cost 2 instead of 1 might make it just a bit too slow.
Yeah, my worry is that the amount of life loss you have to get to a 4/5 color mana base to work makes your burn, affinty, aggro matchups that much worse. Seems like a headache to figure out what combination UBRG on T2 (with a 1-drop in each color), barring no T1 play, all while not milling over the exact land needed. But hey, it seems to be working for you pretty well! Would be interested in seeing some reports/gameplay of the deck.
3-0 First FNM with the deck (same list as mine above, except a 2nd Rakdos Charm over Ingot Chewer)
R1 Boggles 2-1
G1 (Win) Turn 3 Vengevine put on a early clock. MD Suppression Field made Lotleth Troll played the turn before pretty awkward, but I had enough other things going on to keep the pressure on.
G2 (Loss) Sided in 2 Golgari Charm, 1 Gnaw to the Bone, Spellskite for 2 Lightning Axe, Darkblast, and I think a Grisly Salvage. I figured I didn't want to bring in Duress because most of the Auras were redundant, but it could be wrong. Kept a hand with Golgari Charm, Abrupt Decay, Satyr Wayfinder, Lotleth Troll and 2 land. Opp went T1 Boggle, T2 Rancor, Etherial Armor. I Golgari Charmed the Armor. Opp followed up with an Rancor + Daybreak Coronet, which I Abrupt Decayed. I died soon after. I feel like I misplayed the game, but playing Satyr/Troll earlier would have appeared to have done nothing in terms of blocking due to the Rancors.
G3 (Win) Opp mulled to 4. I had a slow pretty slow hand, but Abrupt Decay'd his one creature (Kor Spiritdancer). He played RIP and promptly died the next turn to Angler + Vengevine.
R2 Tron 2-0
G1 (Win) Pretty standard hand for Team Vine. Opp got 1 tron piece naturally, 1 off of Ancient Stirrings, fired off a Pyroclasm to kill a Gravecrawler and Wayfinder. Died soon after to triple Vengevine.
G2 (Win) Sided in 2 Ancient Grudge, 3 Duress, 1 Ghost Quarter for Darkblast, 2 Lightning Axe, 2 Satyr Wayfinder, and something else I can't remember. T1 Loot T2 Duress revealing 2 Groves of Burnwillows, Emrakul, and Karn, then Loot again. Got a Grudge in the yard, but never needed to cast it because the only targets were Chromantic Stars. Opp next draw was a third Groves.
R3 Infect 2-0
G1 (Win) Pretty close game, as I bricked on a few dredges early on. Took 6 Poison from Pendlehaven + Inkmoth, before hitting 2 Vengevine off of a Wayfinder into Angler and turning the game completely around.
G2 (Win) Sided in 1 Spellskite, 2 Golgari Charm, 1 Pyroclasm, 1 Murderous Cut for 1 Gnaw, 1 Loam, 2 Grisly Salvage, and Tymaret, the Murder King. Made a big misplay of not playing T3 Spellskite before trying to Ghost Quarter his Inkmoth Nexus, which he animated and saved with Vines of Vastwoods. Stuck on 2 lands, this slowed him to Pendlehaven his Inkmoth with Heirarch exalted trigger each turn. Pyroclasm dealt with his Noble Heirarch. I got up to 8 Poison before I could mount a board state, but was able to win it with 4/3 Troll, 2 Vengevines, and an Angler. Thinking I should maybe side in a second Ghost Quarter for the matchup.
Non-sanction match Loam Pox 2-0
Saw him playing and wanted to see how the matchup played out. Seems like most of what we doing is enabled by or just better than their game plan. The one thing that really hurt was getting too many lands sacrificed without finding my 1 Life from the Loam.
Overall, I think I got pretty lucky given the matchups, but am happy with the results. As a side note, I did an FNM draft right after and went 2-1, losing the last match of the night in a super close game 3, for a solid 5-1 overall on the day. Slightly more relevant, I got passed a Evolutionary Leap during the draft. If people liked it during the testing, I might throw it in the sideboard.
Dang. I've looked at that card a bunch of times, but never played against it. I always assumed the first ability was "T: Exile target card from a graveyard." Huh.
Neat, I hadn't seen that. I've been testing Leap in this deck and others recently - while it first looked like it had obscene combo potential, it turns out that it's actually just a fantastic grinder that picks control decks apart and turns chumping into card parity. I'm not convinced Dredgevine is the place for it, as we fare well against control and attrition decks to begin with, but it's a good card.
That's a pretty aggressive build.
Agreed. It seems like it could do some interesting work. It's a bit awkward that some of the best creatures to sacrifice to Leap (Bloodghast and Gravecrawler) can't be used as chump fodder.
As for your build, it's very close to what I've been running. Ingot Chewer is interesting for its Vine synergy, but I think Ancient Grudge is better enough that I'd never want it instead.
Ground Seal is also interesting, except that 80% of decks that play Scavenging Ooze also play Abrupt Decay. I bought one for a tournament once, but never wound up actually trying it. I'd be curious to hear how it has worked for you?
How has Pyroclasm been? Generally I've always assumed that Firespout is better in that slot.
Yeah, I know Ingot Chewer is not as ideal as Ancient Grudge. I put it in as I was worried about boarding out too many creatures to make room for artifact hate, making Gnaw to the Bone less impactful and Vengevine less likely to trigger. It might not be correct, but I figured it was worth testing out. I'll give updates once I actually take it to a tournament. So far, I've just done test games against some friends, which is why I'm not confident on the sideboard plans.
With respect to Ground Seal, I figured that Jund/Junk would side out some number of Abrupt Decay since nearly all of our threats regenerate or cost >3. Not sure if this could be assumed, though. Also, what are people's thoughts on Ground Seal against Snapcaster Decks or Decks that mainboard Relic of Progenitus (Tron)? I feel like Snapcasters are the only real way that some decks could out-value us. Might be a bit too cute, though.
Haven't actually ran this in any competitive tournaments, so I can't necessarily say whether Pyroclasm or Firespout is better. Initially, I figured Pyroclasm was better since it cost 2 and the deck operates on like only 4 lands at a time. Then again, the extra point of damage + targeting flexibility could be worth taking the turn off.
This is my current build I am taking to FNM this week. I haven't done too rigorous of testing, as I just got the deck. Thoughts on sideboarding for different matchups?
Great job on the 3-1! I agree that the list does look like it is going in a lot of directions. That said, it is definitely on the aggressive side of decks posted here and a lot of the cards listed have been discussed here. A couple of ideas for the build itself:
With respect to Bloodghast, there are a few things that go into it. First, you basically need 4 of them or 0 of them. They are at their best when you can consistently get multiple 2/1's out as a army-in-a-can out of nowhere. With each copy cut from your deck, then their impact is significantly reduced. Given the fact that they don't trigger Vengevine when in your graveyard and are just 2/1's when cast normally, they tend to ride the coat-tails of what you are already doing, rather than enable your faster draws. Since the deck tends to puke out damage in large chunks on the turns when Vengevines trigger, the haste ability comes up more often when the engine is already chugging along. Also, they tend to get sideboarded out against a lot of decks that are able to gum up the board or where your guys need to block. They are also pretty awkward to with Delve cards. With all that said, you can skew your deck to such a build where Bloodghast can excel, which is typically some type of aggro shell or some hybrid of Loam Pox and Dredgevine. The main problem I see with a lot of the Dredgevine decks that try to go all-in fast is that Modern is full of decks that are just faster than us. In those matchups, you typically can't race them, so you need to try to disrupt them while also furthering your own game plan. We already got game against the fair decks since we blank their removal/discard spells and turn off their 2-for-1's. The deck's bad matchups has, and always will be, the fast aggro and combo decks, so shoring up those matchups are key. And so with all that, I've found that Bloodghast, while it is a card that I love and would want to play, doesn't pull its weight to be a 4-of. While this is by no means fact or the final word, these are likely the reasons why the card has been seeing less play as of late in some builds.
The fact that is comes into play tapped is pretty big, given how few lands the deck plays. As it has been mentioned about Golgari Thug, the effect can some times be actually counter-productive if you try to play it T2 with only a VV or a dredger in your yard. For special lands that only produce 1-color, there likely are better options, such as Bojuka Bog, Crypt of Agadeem, Dakmor Salvage, or some type of folkland.
I agree that Stomping Ground can be pretty awkward at times, but I feel like it's sometimes a necessary evil to get T1 Faithless Looting and T2 Grisly Salvage/Lotleth Troll. As of right now, my list has only 3 lands that don't produce black (Ghost Quarter, Forest, and Stomping Ground
I think Life from the Loam covers a similar axis that Dakmor Salvage as it dredges for more and can find the missing R or B source that you milled the turn you need it.
Agreed, similar to Life from the Loam in the matchups its good in, its bonkers (Affinty, Infect, Elves, Delver, etc). In the other matchups, it can be pitched to Faithless looting and act as your 5/6th Dredge card.
I think you there is a total number delve cards you can have in the deck, since you typically only want to exile sorceries, lands, and non-recurring creatures. Gurmag Angler does so much work (being a bigger body than dredgevine, costing only 1 typically, and being a zombie) that they are always going to take up slots before Murderous Cut and Tasigur. Given that, I think it's worth having 1 (maybe 2) in the 75 for certain matchups where you need a condition-less removal spell.
Agreed on Stinkweek Imp. I think if your build needs your dredger to also be a cheap creature, I could justify it being a 3/4-of. If your dredger is less likely to be cast in your build or your version runs Loam+more lands, then GGT might be better.
Agreed on Gnaw to the Bone. I will say that it's really good against a lot of non-burn decks: Affinity, Elves, Living End, Merfolk, Coco, Boggles, Twin after they sideout the combo, basically any deck that tries to kill you with reasonable amounts of damage.
I find I like Satyr Wayfinder as it functions similar to Grisly Salvage, but triggers vengevine and is of some use when milled (Gnaw to the Bone). The ability to start T3 with a mostly empty graveyard into Satyr Wayfinder, milling delve fuel+Vengevine, then Gurmag Angler cannot be understated. Also, I may be biased since I basically never play Salvage unless it's in my opening hand, since it will always get dredged away otherwise. Since you have Bloodghast in your deck, your creature count otherwise is higher without them, so it is probably build dependent.
As I've said before, Spellskite it one of the best creatures in Modern and should be played in virtually every sideboard.
For Fulimator Mage and the link, the decks where you need the land destruction effects (Bloom and Tron), really require multiple lands to be destroyed since they can tutor for what they need to be cheap. That's why I've found recurring Ghost Quarter's with Life from the Loam as a tutorable (through dredging) and repeatable effect to be very consistent.
I agree that Rakdos Charm has its uses. But I worry that if it is not being used against Twin, there are just better options for each matchup. Against relic, there is ancient grudge. Against decks that go wide, there is Darkblast, Wrath-effects, and Gnaw to the Bone. I play 1 Darkblast now MB, but a 2nd is on the list of potential sideboard cards. Also thinking potentially Leyline of the Void, Engineered Explosives, or just additional copies of what I already have (Duress, Ancient Grudge, Golgari Charm).
Sidisi Faithful does seem like some interesting tech, although I really wish it could be a Zombie so that it could trigger T2 Vengevine with the sacrificed Gravecrawler.
For Gitaxian Probe, I feel like there is a critical mass of creatures that the deck needs to function (Gnaw to the Bone et al) and most of the list is already pretty scrunched for space. The spells the deck does play either need to be in high numbers (Faithless Looting, Abrupt Decay) or are crucial as 1-of's (Darkblast, Gnaw to the Bone). At least for my list, I'm not sure what I would want to cut for them, since they don't enable the deck any faster than a faithless looting, grisly salvage, or the like.
4 Gurmag Angler
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Satyr Wayfinder
4 Vengevine
3 Golgari Grave-Troll
1 Stinkweed Imp
1 Rotting Rats
1 Tymaret, the Murder King
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Lightning Axe
1 Darkblast
4 Faithless Looting
2 Grisly Salvage
1 Gnaw to the Bone
1 Life from the Loam
2 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
3 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Duress
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Rakdos Charm
2 Golgari Charm
1 Ground Seal
1 Murderous Cut
1 Pyroclasm
1 Gnaw to the Bone
1 Spellskite
1 Ghost Quarter
R1 Myr Tron 2-0
G1 (Win) This was a tron deck that ran Palladium Myr, Myr Galvanizer and I assume Myr Battlesphere. I Abrupt Decay'd a Palladium and Galavanizer with a semi-aggresive draw. He was stuck on 2 lands, so it wasn't close.
G2 (Win) Sided in 1 Ghost Quarter, 2 Ancient Grudge (maybe 2 Rakdos Charm? I can't remember) for 2 Grisly Salvage, and probably Lightning Axes. I don't remember much from this game except killing another Palladium Myr and having a pretty fast draw. The deck seemed interesting and it eventually got in the Top 8, but this seems like a bad matchup for it.
R2 Grishoalbrand 0-2
G1 (Loss) Oof. I knew this deck existed, but didn't actually know how it worked. I got him down to 9 with a medium/slow hand, then he combo'd off with reanimating Borborygmus. I think I remember having to cast Lightning Axe on his Griselbrand just to discard a GGT. Watched him go through the whole thing just to know how to sideboard properly.
G2 (Loss) Sided in 1 Ground Seal, 1 Spellskite, 3 Duress, and 2 Rakdos Charm for 3 Abrupt Decay, 2 Lightning Axe, 1 Darkblast, 1 Life from the Loam. Didn't draw a single sideboard card, so I had to try to race. He combo'd out either T4 or T5 before I could get anything going. Ground Seal seems really good against them, although apparently they also run Through the Breach. This seems like a really tough matchup for us that may requiring mulliganing pretty aggressively.
R3 RG Tron 2-0
G1 (Win) I barely remember this match at this point. I think the only major spell he resolved was a Oblivion Stone, which did blow up a semi-significant board of 1-2 Vengvine, 2 Gravecrawler, something like a Lotleth Troll and a Satyr Wayfinder. But, I think I had another zombie in hand, so it didn't too much.
G2 (Win) Probably sided in something like 2 Ancient Grudge, 3 Duress, 1 Ghost Quarter for 1 Darkblast, 2 Lightning Axe, 1 Abrupt Decay, 2 Satyr Wayfinder. Both of our hands were pretty mediocre, but I was able to use Ghost Quarter a Tron piece to keep him on 2-3 lands. A couple of turns later, I used Life from the Loam to get back both Ghost Quarter, but didn't play them as I needed colored mana to finish him off the next turn.
R4 Draw into Top 8 Jund
Top8 Semi Elves 0-2
G1 (Loss) Both of these games were pretty close. We both had decent starts G1. I remember being able to Abrupt Decay his Elvish Archdruid, which he followed up with a Nykthos into a small creature dump. I used Ghost Quarter on the Nykthos, but he had another in hand. I feel like I remember trying to get him with Rotting Rats' discard ability when he only had 1/2 cards in hand, but it didn't pan out. Ultimately, the forest-walking Elvish Champions forced me onto the backfoot, which allowed him to find Craterhoof Behemoth to win.
G2 (Loss) Sided in 1 Pyroclasm, 1 Gnaw to the Bone, 2 Golgari Charm for 2 Grisly Salvage, 2 Lightning Axe, and 1 Life from the Loam.
Golgari Charm'd on T2 to get a Arbor Elf and Elvish Visionary. His start after that was a bit slower. I was a bit slow out of the gate, so I had a few tough choices to make on either T3 or T4. He had a decent presence on board and I could Gnaw to the Bone for 8 or I could flashback faithless looting to dredge GGT's. I choice to fill the graveyard, as I didn't think he could kill me that turn and Gnaw would be a lot better later on. The dredges were pretty good and I got the other Gnaw to the Bone milled, so I'm feeling pretty good. Next turn, I Gnaw to the Bone for about 20 and got out 2 Gravecrawler and 2 Vengevine to put him dead on the next turn with no cards in his hand. He top decks a Summoner's Pact to get Craterhoof Behemoth to win with just enough. Overall, I don't think the matchup is too bad, but I think it is important to figure out if you are in a situation to race them or if you need to disrupt them. They have really good trumps with Craterhoof and Elvish Champions, so I think you can only try to disrupt them if you have a good wrath or if they only have 1 key elf (Champion, Archdruid, Heritage Druid) on T2.
Overall, still pretty happy with the deck. I've been noticing a distinct lack of T1 decks when I've been playing, which makes it confusing for preparation. So far, I have seen 0 Affinity, Delver, or Splinter Twin. I've seen 1 Grixis deck at FNM previously, but didn't face it. At this tournament, it was a Jund mirror in the finals, but one of them was borrowing the deck from someone else and doesn't normally play it. I'm feeling like I may need to shift my sideboard to prepare for more unfair decks, which are the worst matchups anyway. My current thoughts include something like -2 Rakdos Charm -1 Ground Seal.
Perhaps it is because I have only played typically faster decks, but I have yet to really use the graveyard ability of Tymaret, the Murder King. I originally had him in there to be the 2nd effect to restart the gravecrawler loop after a board wipe, but I've never had the mana/time to do it all in one turn. I'm considering swapping him out for something with more utility against the bad matchups. Current ideas I have are either Grim Lavamancer (to have repeatable removal, a similar burn-out plan that Tymaret's 1R ability game, and is a 1-drop creature) or Eternal Witness (to be a creature that is able to pick up milled sideboard spells).
Also, I found that I've been struggling to consistently get Green mana early on and have been unable to fetch any Overgrown Tombs due to dredging. Since I've never really had problems with Red past T1 and the Blackcleave cliffs are really bad to draw on T4+, I'm thinking I will swap the 4th Blackcleave cliffs for the 4th Overgrown Tomb.
As a weird thought, has anyone tried Tarmogoyf? It's a nonbo with Angler/Tasigur, but we play lands, creatures, instants, and sorceries, making it serve a similar role to those cards as a potential early 4/5. The fact that it isn't a zombie and cost 2 instead of 1 might make it just a bit too slow.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5d1KNNFArSN6XERUgABAlV9_VV7FKJFk
His list seems pretty standard at first glance. 2 cards different MD than mine (2 Murderous Cut over 4th Satyr and 1 Tymaret, the Murder King).
R1 Boggles 2-1
G1 (Win) Turn 3 Vengevine put on a early clock. MD Suppression Field made Lotleth Troll played the turn before pretty awkward, but I had enough other things going on to keep the pressure on.
G2 (Loss) Sided in 2 Golgari Charm, 1 Gnaw to the Bone, Spellskite for 2 Lightning Axe, Darkblast, and I think a Grisly Salvage. I figured I didn't want to bring in Duress because most of the Auras were redundant, but it could be wrong. Kept a hand with Golgari Charm, Abrupt Decay, Satyr Wayfinder, Lotleth Troll and 2 land. Opp went T1 Boggle, T2 Rancor, Etherial Armor. I Golgari Charmed the Armor. Opp followed up with an Rancor + Daybreak Coronet, which I Abrupt Decayed. I died soon after. I feel like I misplayed the game, but playing Satyr/Troll earlier would have appeared to have done nothing in terms of blocking due to the Rancors.
G3 (Win) Opp mulled to 4. I had a slow pretty slow hand, but Abrupt Decay'd his one creature (Kor Spiritdancer). He played RIP and promptly died the next turn to Angler + Vengevine.
R2 Tron 2-0
G1 (Win) Pretty standard hand for Team Vine. Opp got 1 tron piece naturally, 1 off of Ancient Stirrings, fired off a Pyroclasm to kill a Gravecrawler and Wayfinder. Died soon after to triple Vengevine.
G2 (Win) Sided in 2 Ancient Grudge, 3 Duress, 1 Ghost Quarter for Darkblast, 2 Lightning Axe, 2 Satyr Wayfinder, and something else I can't remember. T1 Loot T2 Duress revealing 2 Groves of Burnwillows, Emrakul, and Karn, then Loot again. Got a Grudge in the yard, but never needed to cast it because the only targets were Chromantic Stars. Opp next draw was a third Groves.
R3 Infect 2-0
G1 (Win) Pretty close game, as I bricked on a few dredges early on. Took 6 Poison from Pendlehaven + Inkmoth, before hitting 2 Vengevine off of a Wayfinder into Angler and turning the game completely around.
G2 (Win) Sided in 1 Spellskite, 2 Golgari Charm, 1 Pyroclasm, 1 Murderous Cut for 1 Gnaw, 1 Loam, 2 Grisly Salvage, and Tymaret, the Murder King. Made a big misplay of not playing T3 Spellskite before trying to Ghost Quarter his Inkmoth Nexus, which he animated and saved with Vines of Vastwoods. Stuck on 2 lands, this slowed him to Pendlehaven his Inkmoth with Heirarch exalted trigger each turn. Pyroclasm dealt with his Noble Heirarch. I got up to 8 Poison before I could mount a board state, but was able to win it with 4/3 Troll, 2 Vengevines, and an Angler. Thinking I should maybe side in a second Ghost Quarter for the matchup.
Non-sanction match Loam Pox 2-0
Saw him playing and wanted to see how the matchup played out. Seems like most of what we doing is enabled by or just better than their game plan. The one thing that really hurt was getting too many lands sacrificed without finding my 1 Life from the Loam.
Overall, I think I got pretty lucky given the matchups, but am happy with the results. As a side note, I did an FNM draft right after and went 2-1, losing the last match of the night in a super close game 3, for a solid 5-1 overall on the day. Slightly more relevant, I got passed a Evolutionary Leap during the draft. If people liked it during the testing, I might throw it in the sideboard.
Agreed. It seems like it could do some interesting work. It's a bit awkward that some of the best creatures to sacrifice to Leap (Bloodghast and Gravecrawler) can't be used as chump fodder.
Yeah, I know Ingot Chewer is not as ideal as Ancient Grudge. I put it in as I was worried about boarding out too many creatures to make room for artifact hate, making Gnaw to the Bone less impactful and Vengevine less likely to trigger. It might not be correct, but I figured it was worth testing out. I'll give updates once I actually take it to a tournament. So far, I've just done test games against some friends, which is why I'm not confident on the sideboard plans.
With respect to Ground Seal, I figured that Jund/Junk would side out some number of Abrupt Decay since nearly all of our threats regenerate or cost >3. Not sure if this could be assumed, though. Also, what are people's thoughts on Ground Seal against Snapcaster Decks or Decks that mainboard Relic of Progenitus (Tron)? I feel like Snapcasters are the only real way that some decks could out-value us. Might be a bit too cute, though.
Haven't actually ran this in any competitive tournaments, so I can't necessarily say whether Pyroclasm or Firespout is better. Initially, I figured Pyroclasm was better since it cost 2 and the deck operates on like only 4 lands at a time. Then again, the extra point of damage + targeting flexibility could be worth taking the turn off.
4 Gravecrawler
4 Gurmag Angler
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Satyr Wayfinder
4 Vengevine
1 Stinkweed Imp
1 Rotting Rats
1 Tymaret, the Murder King
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Lightning Axe
1 Darkblast
4 Faithless Looting
2 Grisly Salvage
1 Gnaw to the Bone
1 Life from the Loam
2 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
3 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Duress
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Ingot Chewer
1 Rakdos Charm
2 Golgari Charm
1 Ground Seal
1 Murderous Cut
1 Pyroclasm
1 Gnaw to the Bone
1 Spellskite
1 Ghost Quarter
Also, I haven't seen anything here yet about the Michael Woolwine's Top 16 at a SCG Open Washington D.C. a bit ago:
3 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Gravecrawler
2 Gurmag Angler
4 Lotleth Troll
2 Satyr Wayfinder
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4 Vengevine
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Darkblast
4 Faithless Looting
4 Grisly Salvage
3 Murderous Cut
2 Blood Crypt
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Forest
3 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Darkblast
1 Evolutionary Leap
2 Gnaw to the Bone
2 Golgari Charm
2 Rakdos Charm
2 Slaughter Games
3 Thoughtseize
Interesting to see the sideboard Evolutionary Leap. I wonder how it performed for him.