While the creation of a high-power commander who can go infinite with paradox engine the turn it comes out could be a real problem, I think that putting all of the blame on Urza is a bit hyperbolic.
I have seen deck-lists that have or would go infinite (or nearly so) with OG Sisay, Kaho, Selvala 2.0, Jhoira 2.0, Arcum, Emry... the list is bigger than just Urza.
Even if you aren’t running a potential combo as your commander, Paradox Engine is the sort of card that breaks (or enables tremendous leaps in power) if you sneeze on it too hard... and it could be included in any deck as it was colorless. It’s the sort of card that would keep coming up in “Card X goes infinite with Paradox Engine” discussions on a regular basis.
Edit: actually looked up articles from around the time when it is banned. It was said that paradox engine is
“(E)asily inserted into any deck (and) it combines with cards which players already have heavy incentives to play, generating a great deal of mana with virtually no deck building cost.”
Urza probably didn’t help this card but saying that it was banned because of Urza is like saying that Iona died for Kaalia’s sins.
While I hear a lot of people talking about "My playgroup will definitely do X" or "I don't think anyone at my LGS will allow Y", I haven't heard anyone discuss the real problem.
What happens when you are the only one who cares?
When people can gather to play once more and four people gather to play a game, what do you do when one player only has their Gandalf meme deck and the other two players don't care enough to force the other person out or to pressure you to stay? Do you personally force them out of the game because you want to have fun and refuse to play against those cards? Do you just walk away from the possibility of playing because you refuse to fight Gandalf? While people are ultimately only responsible for their own enjoyment, neither of these approaches really paints someone in a good light. Likewise, keep in mind that 40k or LotR cards could be used in the 99 and not all decks with UB cards are going to be immediately obvious. Are people going to sit down with strangers and tell the rest of the group "The moment any of you play a UB card, I am scooping and heading out".
I don't know. A lot of this stuff may make people look like jerks while simultaneously being perfectly reasonable responses.
So... now that Beyond Universes is a thing, the miscellaneous pop culture cross-over sets that everyone and their grandmother have thought about at some point or another are now bizarrely possible. Now that these sets/secret lairs/commander products are possible, it's time for people to start getting their "I totally designed that card first" cred.
The Rules:
When you make a post, feel free to create 1-2 legendary cards (not necessarily creatures) from one of the franchises listed in the post above you.
When you make a post, please leave 2-3 books, cartoons, comics, video games, etc. for the next person to choose from.
While bizarre choices like Teletubbies are fine, let's try to stick to series that most people will have at least heard of.
Coming back to previously chosen series may be inevitable (especially with series that have a large cast of characters) but let's wait a few pages after a series is chosen before bringing it up again (but feel free to re-use a series on your own list if it hasn't been chosen yet).
Your legends may be black-bordered, silver-bordered, sarcastic and hateful messes that you post solely to help you cope with the stark reality of Beyond Universes being a thing, or even godzilla-style "Alt-name" legends.
To start:
Lord of the Rings
Warhammer 40K
Game of Thrones
Feel free to join in. The fun (and healing) starts here.
Well this better be like Godzilla and not like Walking Dead.
That’s about where I am with this. Wizards reporting willingness to “reprint” cards with a different name and say that they are the same card on Gatherer for deck building restrictions was annoying enough when it was just a secret lair. Scaling up that problem to a full set would be a serious problem.
I mean, I doubt that every single card will cause reprint problems. Most non-legendary cards probably won’t have reprint problems (it’s not like the Tolkien estate owns the words “shire” or “ranger”) and wizards will hopefully be wise enough to make hobbits kithkin and to name lands in a way that gives at least some level of plausible deniability (other than maybe a common ETB land cycle). If the set still contains around 20 legends, though, that would be a bit rough.
Actually, I would be satisfied if wizards accompanied the set with Secret Lairs showing the non-copyrighted versions of the legends so that a version of the cards that wizards could potentially reprint is seen and known from the start and players who don’t like the crossover have a version of the card that they wouldn’t object to if one of those legends ends up being powerful.
unspoken needed rules change to make this card work #1: CMC is clearly linked with mana cost. After all, having this link allows for more “interactivity”.
unspoken needed rules change to make this card work #2: Decreasing CMC removed generic mana costs first and then (presumably) removed removed colored mana costs of the caster’s choice (meaning that someone chooses what three colors of mana they spend on sliver queen). Increases in CMC add generic mana costs. All of this should be “obvious” due to “context”, of course.
Regarding the mana cost: the cost was either not fully decided as Reap is busy “notioning” the matter (much like the undecided P/T) OR Reap was struggling with trying to give this card a mana cost of 3 to make the card feel internally self-consistent while still making it 5 colors like every other legendary sliver and the shorthand used is intended to indicate a CMC of “3 out of WUBRG” (doing what this card would do to other WUBRG slivers) and the fact that it appears to be an undecided game element next to the definitely undecided element of the P/T is a total coincidence that anyone should have “obviously” seen through.
For Mirrodin Remastered, meanwhile, we have... uh... eternal witness... artifact lands... cloud post... did I mention eternal witness?
Edit: I know that bonesplitter and cranial plating are cards. Still don’t think there would be enough interesting cards, is the point.
I was talking about non-rares specifically if you look at my examples. While I forgot clamp (and steelshaper’s gift), I don’t think that there is a critical density of halfway decent non-rares.
A ton of blocks can put forth a decent array of rares and mythics. Time Spiral is one of the few that has a decent density of non rare cards that are worthwhile. That is my complaint with the insistence that *inser block* remastered will be the next big thing.
They couldn't use the term "mana cost" because it's already in use. It means the cost as written in the upper corner of the card.
In English, we have this thing called context. Context adapts the meaning of a thing based on the wording composure or inflection.
For example, when you add a number (such as 2) to the end of "mana cost", it changes the context and adapts a second meaning.
Now, 'mana cost 2' means a mana cost totaling 2 mana of any kind or combination.
Oh, so Talisman of Dominance has mana cost 2 and mana cost while counterspell has mana cost 2 but doesn’t have mana cost ... yeah, that looks similar enough on some cards (especially on artifacts that already have a gray background) that it might cause design issues.
I see them doing more remix sets or remake sets. It's going to be an on going theme until they hit every old block that they can.
I don't take any issue with this. Apocalypse remastered in one booster box set. The power level of that block is low by todays standards so they have to remaster it.
I have honestly given this matter a bit more thought and I have this to say. An all reprint set probably will not do well if it doesn't have a sufficient density of decent commons and uncommons to keep people interested. Time spiral is unique because it represents a point of high game complexity and innovative mechanics at all rarities and most past sets probably don't meet that bar... and the timeshifted gimmick wouldn't be available for most sets, either. While wizards may try this specific model one or two additional times (the Lorwyn mega-block may have enough to work with as it was a full 4 sets, for example), I think that Wizards will eventually settle on one of two similar products.
1. Plane Remastered: I can imagine an "Innistrad Remastered" with cards from both visits to innistrad, "Ravnica Remastered" with cards from all 3 visits to Ravnica, or "Zendikar Remastered" with all three visits to Zendikar. By multiplying the number of sets available, making a competitive and nostalgic product with a higher number of high-value rares becomes a far easier task.
2. Plane Reimagined: Taking a path closer to Modern Horizons than to Modern Masters, I could imagine Wizards printing a set that is generally a remastered set with new cards introduced that would fit into that past story and environment. Imagine a "Masques Remade" set that includes a new black Mercenary legend to act as a counterpoint for Lin Sivvi, a few "toolbox" common/uncommon mercenaries/rebels to rejuvenate the archetype and make it feel semi-competitive (especially with all of the tutoring around it), a cycle of "goalpost" multicolor uncommons, and a cycle of rhystic study-esque enchantments that use the rhystic effect to tax opponents instead of giving opponents the option to simply turn off your spell (as they did with every other rhystic spell).
The hard part is that there are few sets where this would be a big draw.
For TSR, players will likely enjoy getting Rift Bolt, Tolaria West, Dryad Arbor, SSG (even post-ban), Sprout Swarm, Pongify, Mana Tuthe, a wide array of slivers...
For Mirrodin Remastered, meanwhile, we have... uh... eternal witness... artifact lands... cloud post... did I mention eternal witness?
If there isn’t a critical density of semi-exciting non-rares to go into the set, I can’t imagine a set being pulled off... and I can think of maybe 1-2 other blocks (Lorwyn being one) that can pack enough of those to make it halfway plausible.
Edit: I know that bonesplitter and cranial plating are cards. Still don’t think there would be enough interesting cards, is the point.
Kind of interesting that they briefly slipped in the fact that the 5 houses were established by "Elder Dragons". They sound like plausible legendary face cards for the on-theme Commander Decks for this set, and probably with some "professors" or unique legendary creatures as the other secondary Commanders for the decks.
In addition to this, they also mentioned 81 new cards for the Commander decks! Holy cow. I would guess we probably have approximately 15 new cards per deck, and 6 cards (Probably artifacts and lands) that fit into each deck. I imagine this includes cards from the actual Strixhaven set: these decks feel pretty similar to the Ikoira decks.
Going by previous standards, I imagine 3 unique mythical per deck, 15 unique rares per deck, one uncommon per color that each appear in multiple decks, and a colorless/land common for all decks.
They do potentially do nothing, and they would provoke players to tech snow covered basic lands in other formats (which isn't bad).
I kind of disagree with the notion that they do nothing, honestly.
1. If I have Be in my opening hand and I play a snow land, my opponent is either screwed (if they don't have a snow land) or they are being taxed for 1 mana at the start of each of my upkeeps until the opponent attempts to "go off" and win. I paid no mana and no cards to tax my opponent in this way but they are still inclined to pay the tax due to these cards existing in the metagame. It's true that having a second Be in my hand doesn't add to that advantage (similar to legendary creatures) but having a passive 1-mana tax that comes online turn 1 is NOT nothing.
2. Giving all of these cards a CMC of 1 seems to ignore the possibility of just casting Be on turn 1.
I wanted to finish the cycle before hammering out the final schematics. Please stand by on this.
It has been a notion to me from the start that these will likely may not be able to cost a single mana—no matter how much I would like to preserve that grace.
Step 1: Think of card idea.
Step 2: Create card in entirety
Step 3: Share card idea.
This process isn't so hard. I have not seen anyone else on the thread struggle with this concept in the past. Before you share a card, develop the idea and write out the card. Instead of performing iteration on a half-finished idea, show us a "final product". That is how this forum works. I cannot make this concept much more simple.
I have seen deck-lists that have or would go infinite (or nearly so) with OG Sisay, Kaho, Selvala 2.0, Jhoira 2.0, Arcum, Emry... the list is bigger than just Urza.
Even if you aren’t running a potential combo as your commander, Paradox Engine is the sort of card that breaks (or enables tremendous leaps in power) if you sneeze on it too hard... and it could be included in any deck as it was colorless. It’s the sort of card that would keep coming up in “Card X goes infinite with Paradox Engine” discussions on a regular basis.
Edit: actually looked up articles from around the time when it is banned. It was said that paradox engine is
“(E)asily inserted into any deck (and) it combines with cards which players already have heavy incentives to play, generating a great deal of mana with virtually no deck building cost.”
Urza probably didn’t help this card but saying that it was banned because of Urza is like saying that Iona died for Kaalia’s sins.
What happens when you are the only one who cares?
When people can gather to play once more and four people gather to play a game, what do you do when one player only has their Gandalf meme deck and the other two players don't care enough to force the other person out or to pressure you to stay? Do you personally force them out of the game because you want to have fun and refuse to play against those cards? Do you just walk away from the possibility of playing because you refuse to fight Gandalf? While people are ultimately only responsible for their own enjoyment, neither of these approaches really paints someone in a good light. Likewise, keep in mind that 40k or LotR cards could be used in the 99 and not all decks with UB cards are going to be immediately obvious. Are people going to sit down with strangers and tell the rest of the group "The moment any of you play a UB card, I am scooping and heading out".
I don't know. A lot of this stuff may make people look like jerks while simultaneously being perfectly reasonable responses.
The Rules:
To start:
Lord of the Rings
Warhammer 40K
Game of Thrones
Feel free to join in. The fun (and healing) starts here.
And thus began Wizardestrianism.
That’s about where I am with this. Wizards reporting willingness to “reprint” cards with a different name and say that they are the same card on Gatherer for deck building restrictions was annoying enough when it was just a secret lair. Scaling up that problem to a full set would be a serious problem.
I mean, I doubt that every single card will cause reprint problems. Most non-legendary cards probably won’t have reprint problems (it’s not like the Tolkien estate owns the words “shire” or “ranger”) and wizards will hopefully be wise enough to make hobbits kithkin and to name lands in a way that gives at least some level of plausible deniability (other than maybe a common ETB land cycle). If the set still contains around 20 legends, though, that would be a bit rough.
Actually, I would be satisfied if wizards accompanied the set with Secret Lairs showing the non-copyrighted versions of the legends so that a version of the cards that wizards could potentially reprint is seen and known from the start and players who don’t like the crossover have a version of the card that they wouldn’t object to if one of those legends ends up being powerful.
unspoken needed rules change to make this card work #1: CMC is clearly linked with mana cost. After all, having this link allows for more “interactivity”.
unspoken needed rules change to make this card work #2: Decreasing CMC removed generic mana costs first and then (presumably) removed removed colored mana costs of the caster’s choice (meaning that someone chooses what three colors of mana they spend on sliver queen). Increases in CMC add generic mana costs. All of this should be “obvious” due to “context”, of course.
Regarding the mana cost: the cost was either not fully decided as Reap is busy “notioning” the matter (much like the undecided P/T) OR Reap was struggling with trying to give this card a mana cost of 3 to make the card feel internally self-consistent while still making it 5 colors like every other legendary sliver and the shorthand used is intended to indicate a CMC of “3 out of WUBRG” (doing what this card would do to other WUBRG slivers) and the fact that it appears to be an undecided game element next to the definitely undecided element of the P/T is a total coincidence that anyone should have “obviously” seen through.
Because Force Majeure.
Okay, now I’m done.
I was talking about non-rares specifically if you look at my examples. While I forgot clamp (and steelshaper’s gift), I don’t think that there is a critical density of halfway decent non-rares.
A ton of blocks can put forth a decent array of rares and mythics. Time Spiral is one of the few that has a decent density of non rare cards that are worthwhile. That is my complaint with the insistence that *inser block* remastered will be the next big thing.
Oh, so Talisman of Dominance has mana cost 2 and mana cost
I have honestly given this matter a bit more thought and I have this to say. An all reprint set probably will not do well if it doesn't have a sufficient density of decent commons and uncommons to keep people interested. Time spiral is unique because it represents a point of high game complexity and innovative mechanics at all rarities and most past sets probably don't meet that bar... and the timeshifted gimmick wouldn't be available for most sets, either. While wizards may try this specific model one or two additional times (the Lorwyn mega-block may have enough to work with as it was a full 4 sets, for example), I think that Wizards will eventually settle on one of two similar products.
1. Plane Remastered: I can imagine an "Innistrad Remastered" with cards from both visits to innistrad, "Ravnica Remastered" with cards from all 3 visits to Ravnica, or "Zendikar Remastered" with all three visits to Zendikar. By multiplying the number of sets available, making a competitive and nostalgic product with a higher number of high-value rares becomes a far easier task.
2. Plane Reimagined: Taking a path closer to Modern Horizons than to Modern Masters, I could imagine Wizards printing a set that is generally a remastered set with new cards introduced that would fit into that past story and environment. Imagine a "Masques Remade" set that includes a new black Mercenary legend to act as a counterpoint for Lin Sivvi, a few "toolbox" common/uncommon mercenaries/rebels to rejuvenate the archetype and make it feel semi-competitive (especially with all of the tutoring around it), a cycle of "goalpost" multicolor uncommons, and a cycle of rhystic study-esque enchantments that use the rhystic effect to tax opponents instead of giving opponents the option to simply turn off your spell (as they did with every other rhystic spell).
For TSR, players will likely enjoy getting Rift Bolt, Tolaria West, Dryad Arbor, SSG (even post-ban), Sprout Swarm, Pongify, Mana Tuthe, a wide array of slivers...
For Mirrodin Remastered, meanwhile, we have... uh... eternal witness... artifact lands... cloud post... did I mention eternal witness?
If there isn’t a critical density of semi-exciting non-rares to go into the set, I can’t imagine a set being pulled off... and I can think of maybe 1-2 other blocks (Lorwyn being one) that can pack enough of those to make it halfway plausible.
Edit: I know that bonesplitter and cranial plating are cards. Still don’t think there would be enough interesting cards, is the point.
Going by previous standards, I imagine 3 unique mythical per deck, 15 unique rares per deck, one uncommon per color that each appear in multiple decks, and a colorless/land common for all decks.
The only older card that looks like a dragon but isn't a dragon that has all five colors from that time period would likely be Cromat. Is that it?
Step 1: Think of card idea.
Step 2: Create card in entirety
Step 3: Share card idea.
This process isn't so hard. I have not seen anyone else on the thread struggle with this concept in the past. Before you share a card, develop the idea and write out the card. Instead of performing iteration on a half-finished idea, show us a "final product". That is how this forum works. I cannot make this concept much more simple.