I think striking should stay in to essentially help with Burn, Zoo, Affinity and possibly Infect. With these fast aggressive decks still doing well, striking sliver is one of main advantages early that helps keep these at bay while we set up our lords plan. Especially I think against Burn and probably Zoo.
I would think replacing Sentinel Sliver with Warping Wail as well would help you against combo/control while also not being that irrelevant to some agro decks.
I am also not sure Leeching Sliver is the best option at this point. The 4th Vial plus, a syphon, 2 Necrotic, and perhaps the 4th Mutavault
This is my board. I could also be convinced to add Gutshot back in for the Infect/Affinity kills.
I see you have Grafdigger's Cage in SB. When do you bring it in, as it is a nonbo with CoCo? My list of creatures is similar to yours, but I find Necrotic to be just too slow. I have been testing 1 Harmonic Sliver instead and so far it has helped and not really gotten dead in hand due to my Vial being on the field. Maybe just lucky... Finally, I am playing 21 lands and seems to help mana issues. I play 2 Verdant Catacombsto be able to fetch either basic land. Plus I play Breeding Pool to fetch to blue mana. I am interested to learn about experience with Warping Wail, as I normally play Dismember in that slot. best of luck!
Hi all. GW Slivers has been competitive in pauper (see Pauper Gauntlet Season 3 where a version just made top 10, thanks Brennon and Dan!), but I have always wanted to add blue for evasion (flying slivers) plus the bonus counters and card draw effects that blue brings to the deck (dispel vapor snag, ponder, distant melody). Playing this version, I sacrifice creature count (GW usually handles minimum of 30), which can sometimes become a problem of not drawing enough, particularly against control decks. Here is a version I am currently testing:
I take out Necrotic vs. ultra-fast decks
I take out sentinel so much that I am removing it.
I take out syphon vs. decks where lifelink doesn't matter as much
I take out diffusion against decks with little to no interaction and are fast.
I will take out Striking in decks that don't have a lot of creatures or it doesn't matter.
I try not to take any manaweft, lord, or galerider.
This is my new thought on the deck. Torpor Orb might be good instead of grafdigger's cage, but I think grafdigger's cage has wider use against trouble aspects of the deck. I kinda also want to include at least one leeching sliver somewhere to get around worship or phyrexian unlife.
I have six flex spots in the main - 1 Necrotic Sliver, 2 Striking Sliver, 1 Syphon Sliver, 2 Venom Sliver.
I would like to find a home for the second Necrotic Sliver. However, this might be a better configuration for a Eldrazi focused field. It also has some limited game against infect,affinity, and other creature based wins with Venom Sliver
I haven't missed sentinel sliver since I took it out. I did think it was amazing when I had it, it was so great with Sedge and Necrotic, but it's last on my list to add back in.
Have you considered a Harmonic main instead of leeching? Harmonic can also hit blood moon, spreading seas, ensnaring bridge, Eidolon of the great revel, affinity. It can be awkward very occasionally with the aether vial if they have nothing. But I think it's worth the risk with the current meta.
I like the inclusion of two venom slivers, I really need to pick some up and give them a try.
@Jim_Prov
Have you tried 3 sliver hives and 4 cavern instead? The extra sliver hives are useless except in rare games, but having access to uncounterable slivers is still really useful in some games. I'm never unhappy to have 2 Caverns as you can drop two uncounterable slivers if needed.
Thanks for the idea on the swap of Sliver Hive for a Cavern. Not sure if I want the cast protection or the ability to make a sliver token. My meta tends to go grindy in matches.
I also like the idea of trying to fit in Venom and Cautery slivers but not sure what to give up? Maybe Leeching Slivers? I am hesitant to give up the hand disruption in SB. Perhaps one Darkheart for a Cautery? I am more a fan of spicy slivers deck rather than raw power approach.
Heading to FNM with this deck. It has performed pretty well online. I find the addition of Gut Shot and Harmonic Sliver in MB to very helpful against current Meta. There is nothing like the feeling of T3 Harmonic, followed by Collected Company on T4 wiping away 3 artifacts against Affinity.
Picking up from my Merfolk days, I am favoring 3 Caverns and 3 Mutavaults, in order to smooth out other lands to cast the Slivers. I play 20 lands overall. SB has worked well. I was playing Chalice, but find too much preparedness for it bcz of the Eldrazi impact.
Welcome everyone's thoughts on the deck and hope to report after.
One of the matches i lost was due to a missplay from my part, would be 3-2,4-1,4-1. Did lose to griselbrand deck t2 and t3 one match too
My updated list is this, tried with leylines in the sb, but too cluncky if not on the openning hand, probably will try spatial contortion, and sea gate is just awesome, like i predicted with some many ways to get colorless.
Chalice however, is iffy still. I did well but only brought it in 3 times. It might be better to have more slots dedicated to tron with ghost quarters/tec edge/sea's claim. It's really hard to say though, I do like having chalice for some match ups.
I am wondering how many are playing Sea's Claim in SB instead of Tec Edge/Ghost Quarter? I know there are some games where you really want to get rid of opponent's land, but I am thinking of trying Sea's claim. It provides denial for manlands but also give devotion for Master...
I find this recent discussion to be very exciting and useful. I realize I have been struggling to “want it all” in terms of how my slivers deck would play. On the one hand, I want to be aggro but on the other, to have the toolbox slivers to set up certain combos, etc. So I often find dilemmas on turn 2, where I have a Galerider out (no Aether Vial), and in hand a Lord, and at least 2 of either Sentinel, Diffusion and Manaweft Slivers. So, do I pump the Galerider and swing for 2? Or do I tool up for later play. And which one? My favorite combo in the deck is: Sentinel and Manaweft, to be able to attack and then cast more slivers second main, or use as mana to cast CoCo. But I also like Sentinel with Telekinetic late game to tap down my opponent’s usually big creatures. I always worry about instants so want to play Diffusion Sliver, but that just seems to slow down attacks. So I am giving thought to possibly going all out aggro (like Elves) in main and saving toolbox stuff in SB for slower, grindy play, but not sure how to configure. Lots of tinkering and testing ahead. Thoughts welcome. What would you do if you wanted and all out attack strategy for fastest possible win in game 1?
...
I can give you a modern u/w fish list if you're curious. ....
It would be great to see your UW list! I have been struggling to get the right combination of creatures with white and blue to add to theusual merfolk in the mono deck, and also the white SB cards.
I am not sure why people are passing so much on Homing Sliver. That is the "extra copies" of things you are trying to cram in such as the discussion of adding a gemhide to make 5 mana guys. He is your 5th copy. After board Homing gets even better due to having the correct answer when you need it. With regards to card advantage think about this... do you want to hope to draw what you need or go tutor for it?
As so the firewake vs blur it is no contest. Firewake hands down. Yes it is 2 colors but there isn't a land in the deck except the 1 of blood crypt that doesn't produce green. It also has a relavent ability to push extra damage through.
In my post #580 above, my deck has 1 Homing Sliver main and 2 in SB, while I also cut 1 Collected Company. I agree that the ability to tutor for a specific card is a major plus (sometimes I need a flyer while other times Necrotic for removal). I also put 2 Homing Slivers in the SB to be able to fetch Sliver Hivelord whenever I Board it in. However, in testing, as a 1-of, Homing just isn't coming up enough to get the job done. That's why I have been looking for something to gain some card advantage. Since I am a big Sedge Sliver fan, and my mana base is strong in black, I will test Dark Confidant, though I am not sure what Slivers to give up for him....
I have played the deck with 3 Sedge Sliver and 4 Sedge Sliver and it is a world of difference. Sedge Sliver is basically a worse Sinew Sliver in most cases, but it is necessary to have 12 total Lords. The regeneration ability is rarely good in my play testing, but when it is good, it is nearly unbeatable. I feel like Sedge Sliver and Abrupt Decay are 2 incredibly powerful cards that sometimes just won't be good. I think we have to accept that. I put the 5th Manaweft Sliver in the deck as a singleton Gemhide Sliver. I think it really helps Abrupt Decay, as the slightest changes really change the deck with Collected Company. I've had to cut some gain life Slivers to the SB. That being said, I actually have been running Kiki Chord at tournaments currently. It's too bad to me that there are too many choices to play right now. If I play on Thursday or Tuesday, I probably will run Slivers.
Could you post or link to your current slivers deck?
I prefer Blur Sliver for several reasons: It is easier to cast as it requires only 1 specific colored mana (R) over 2 colors (RG) for Firewake Sliver; Also Blur Sliver is a 2/2 as compared to Firewake's 1/1; I don't like the older series slivers that give abilities/effects to "all slivers" which could include your opponents (Think Mutavault)whereas Blur Sliver affects only Slivers you control; and finally, I don't see benefits affecting one specific sliver rather than all the slivers in the Hive. Blur Sliver is a solid part of my Main (I run 2); I almost never side it out except when I need to bring in a lot of artifact hate from SB
I see Twin, Delver, CoCo Elves, Burn, now this new Prowess deck that I think Patrick Chapin played recently, sometimes jund. I also play Merfolk (really like tribal) but I like that Merfolk has cards that generate draws, or even scry those times I put a Thassa in the deck. The more I play Slivers, the better I get and the more I like it - even more than Merfolk - but I think it needs some card advantage other than what Collected Company brings, or something to bring back slivers from the graveyard for those grindy matches where I am always getting one-offed. But I am otherwise happy with the mana base for the 5 colors and still tinkering with a few Slivers to keep or drop in favor of more effective SB cards. Appreciate the advice on those so thanks.
In playtesting, this deck can be explosive, but more often, is slow. Trying to find ways to accelerate, but having difficulty cutting slivers in order to do so. I would like to introduce cards that have draw ability or scry, like Serum Visions or another card, but mana is complex and fragile/inconsistent. I need all 5 colors because of key cards for me like Sedge Sliver (red and black), Galerider and Diffusion Slivers (blue), Collected Company (green) and Sinew Sliver and sideboard (white). Finally, I find many times that I can't build momentum because opponent just keeps killing off slivers as I cast them due to counters or removal. So I am trying Return to the Ranks or even something like Immortal Servitude to bring them back. All comments welcome.
Budget-Conscious deck - Is it better to run 2 Aether Vials or NO Aether Vials?
I used to play Bogles (budget conscious) and now trying out Merfolk. I do prefer fish! My deck looks like this so far, thanks to Nikachu's budget videos and a friend's help with some cards (but no Aether Vials):
27 Creatures:
4 Judge's Familiar
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
4 Harbinger of the Tides
3 Merrow Reejerey
1 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
3 Master of Waves
22 Lands:
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Mutavault
2 Wanderwine Hub
2 Tectonic Edge
10 Islands
11 Instants, etc
4 Spreading Seas
1 Spell Pierce
2 Relic of Progenitus
3 Dismember
1 Dispel
I really can't afford a set of Aether Vial, so I am wondering if it is better to play this deck as is (without any Vials) or save for 2 Aether Vials? I am worried about not drawing the Vial early enough in a game if there are only 2 in the deck and making them less effective than the other cards. The meta has Twin, Grixis Delver, Burn, Jund, CoCo Elves, Soul Sisters, and other homebrews.
Thanks for your thoughts....
I see you have Grafdigger's Cage in SB. When do you bring it in, as it is a nonbo with CoCo? My list of creatures is similar to yours, but I find Necrotic to be just too slow. I have been testing 1 Harmonic Sliver instead and so far it has helped and not really gotten dead in hand due to my Vial being on the field. Maybe just lucky... Finally, I am playing 21 lands and seems to help mana issues. I play 2 Verdant Catacombsto be able to fetch either basic land. Plus I play Breeding Pool to fetch to blue mana. I am interested to learn about experience with Warping Wail, as I normally play Dismember in that slot. best of luck!
Creatures (27)
4 Plated Sliver
2 Sidewinder Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
2 Sentinel Sliver
2 Talon Sliver
4 Muscle Sliver
4 Predatory Sliver
2 Gemhide Sliver
3 Winged Sliver
Spells (13)
3 Journey to Nowhere
3 Distant Melody
2 Vapor Snag
2 Ponder
2 Dispel
1 Intervene
Lands (20)
2 Tranquil Cove
2 Thornwood Falls
1 Blossoming Sands
5 Forest
5 Island
5 Plains
Sideboard
3 Standard Bearer
3 Gleeful Sabotage
3 Vines of Vastwood
2 Moment's Peace
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Vapor Snag
1 Intervene
The hardest part is getting consistent land drops of right color at right time. But so far, the deck works ok. Any comment welcome on how to improve.
Thanks for the idea on the swap of Sliver Hive for a Cavern. Not sure if I want the cast protection or the ability to make a sliver token. My meta tends to go grindy in matches.
I also like the idea of trying to fit in Venom and Cautery slivers but not sure what to give up? Maybe Leeching Slivers? I am hesitant to give up the hand disruption in SB. Perhaps one Darkheart for a Cautery? I am more a fan of spicy slivers deck rather than raw power approach.
Picking up from my Merfolk days, I am favoring 3 Caverns and 3 Mutavaults, in order to smooth out other lands to cast the Slivers. I play 20 lands overall. SB has worked well. I was playing Chalice, but find too much preparedness for it bcz of the Eldrazi impact.
Welcome everyone's thoughts on the deck and hope to report after.
3 Cavern of Souls
3 Mutavault
1 Forest
1 Swamp
4 Sliver Hive
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Breeding Pool
1 Blood Crypt
1 Godless Shrine
Creatures
2 Blur Sliver
3 Diffusion Sliver
1 Frenetic Sliver
4 Galerider Sliver
1 Harmonic Sliver
2 Leeching Sliver
4 Manaweft Sliver
4 Predatory Sliver
3 Sedge Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
1 Striking Sliver
4 AEther Vial
4 Collected Company
2 Dismember
1 Gut Shot
2 Darkheart Sliver
1 Dismember
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Gut Shot
3 Harmonic Sliver
1 Homing Sliver
2 Necrotic Sliver
1 Syphon Sliver
2 Thoughtseize
How did you find not playing with any Aether Vials? Are you missing them? If you were to MB the Vials, what would you consider cutting?
I am wondering how many are playing Sea's Claim in SB instead of Tec Edge/Ghost Quarter? I know there are some games where you really want to get rid of opponent's land, but I am thinking of trying Sea's claim. It provides denial for manlands but also give devotion for Master...
It would be great to see your UW list! I have been struggling to get the right combination of creatures with white and blue to add to theusual merfolk in the mono deck, and also the white SB cards.
In my post #580 above, my deck has 1 Homing Sliver main and 2 in SB, while I also cut 1 Collected Company. I agree that the ability to tutor for a specific card is a major plus (sometimes I need a flyer while other times Necrotic for removal). I also put 2 Homing Slivers in the SB to be able to fetch Sliver Hivelord whenever I Board it in. However, in testing, as a 1-of, Homing just isn't coming up enough to get the job done. That's why I have been looking for something to gain some card advantage. Since I am a big Sedge Sliver fan, and my mana base is strong in black, I will test Dark Confidant, though I am not sure what Slivers to give up for him....
Could you post or link to your current slivers deck?
I prefer Blur Sliver for several reasons: It is easier to cast as it requires only 1 specific colored mana (R) over 2 colors (RG) for Firewake Sliver; Also Blur Sliver is a 2/2 as compared to Firewake's 1/1; I don't like the older series slivers that give abilities/effects to "all slivers" which could include your opponents (Think Mutavault)whereas Blur Sliver affects only Slivers you control; and finally, I don't see benefits affecting one specific sliver rather than all the slivers in the Hive. Blur Sliver is a solid part of my Main (I run 2); I almost never side it out except when I need to bring in a lot of artifact hate from SB
In playtesting, this deck can be explosive, but more often, is slow. Trying to find ways to accelerate, but having difficulty cutting slivers in order to do so. I would like to introduce cards that have draw ability or scry, like Serum Visions or another card, but mana is complex and fragile/inconsistent. I need all 5 colors because of key cards for me like Sedge Sliver (red and black), Galerider and Diffusion Slivers (blue), Collected Company (green) and Sinew Sliver and sideboard (white). Finally, I find many times that I can't build momentum because opponent just keeps killing off slivers as I cast them due to counters or removal. So I am trying Return to the Ranks or even something like Immortal Servitude to bring them back. All comments welcome.
I used to play Bogles (budget conscious) and now trying out Merfolk. I do prefer fish! My deck looks like this so far, thanks to Nikachu's budget videos and a friend's help with some cards (but no Aether Vials):
27 Creatures:
4 Judge's Familiar
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
4 Harbinger of the Tides
3 Merrow Reejerey
1 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
3 Master of Waves
22 Lands:
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Mutavault
2 Wanderwine Hub
2 Tectonic Edge
10 Islands
11 Instants, etc
4 Spreading Seas
1 Spell Pierce
2 Relic of Progenitus
3 Dismember
1 Dispel
Sideboard :
2 Tidebinder Mage
1 Master of Waves
2 Kira
2 Hibernation
2 Remand
1 Negate
1 Dismember
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Tectonic Edge
I really can't afford a set of Aether Vial, so I am wondering if it is better to play this deck as is (without any Vials) or save for 2 Aether Vials? I am worried about not drawing the Vial early enough in a game if there are only 2 in the deck and making them less effective than the other cards. The meta has Twin, Grixis Delver, Burn, Jund, CoCo Elves, Soul Sisters, and other homebrews.
Thanks for your thoughts....