Also, Flying, you starting to conceive that traditional Jund isn't a good deck to play in this meta?
Depends on what fliers they have. Not many decks right now uses flying threats except for maybe for any deck that uses Inkmoth Nexus and possibly Vendilion Clique.
LOL the other poster is named FLYINGDelver.
Back to the topic, is there any pros posting articles (except for the premium SCG ones)
You could bring in fulminator if you have nothing to bring in.
Surgical is fine for paths and whatnot.
No to blessed alliance, you're splashing white for some lingering souls, you don't want to dedicate too much to white cards, otherwise you're ****ed by one GQ or Fulminator
Getting screwed by ghost quarter is there, but im talking about brining blessed in decks where its likely not played. It works against burn, against an attacking etched champion/smasher, kills opposing death's shadows, or can be a combat trick to untap your creatures. The flexibility seems great
This deck has exploded around my area where anyone that was playing Jund is now trying this out. I think that this deck is really performing well as hyper-agro version of original Jund.
Is there a concensus on when to take out what against:
Jund/Junk
Eldrazi
Tron
Affinity
?
To answer your question, I think that against Affinity we should have the upper hand where that we enough big creature put on quick and they have to block to even stay alive. Affinity doesn't have much removal for Death's Shadow except for possible tech of Fatal Push but I haven't see them use that card much lately, what to cut out?
Their main outs are Galvanic Blast (main), Dismember (definitely in sb), or dispatch (very few lists run it). Affinity is my other Modern deck.
Also I definitely forgot about rec sage not being tutorable against RIP, but usually you would make them discard it first. Its still relevant against blood moon/worship/leyline/ensnaring bridge.
Core:
3 Lingering Souls
1 Ranger of Eos
2 Fulminator Mage
1 ghost quarter
2 surgical extraction
1 grafdiggers cage
Flex:
1 Reclamation sage (tutorable answer to RIP, Bridge, Blood Moon)
1 Ancient grudge (Affinity/Lantern/Bridge)
1 Collective Brutality (Burn and weenie matchups)
1 Liliana Last Hope (Grindy matchups)
1 Maelstrom Pulse (catch all answer)
Maybeside:
1 Blessed Alliance (can be used in mirrors, burn, eldrazi and combat trick)
1 Abrupt Decay (perhaps pulse is better in sb?)
2 Path to Exile (for large creatures)
1 Dismember (for large creatures)
First off, thank you for opening the primer crexalbo. I hope you know that now it's you that's responsible for maintaining the thread and not me.
I've already talked with DruggyJesus about the look of our new banner and i firmly believe he will have finished it very soon.
Then, i do believe we first need to make a core list from which we are tweeking the numbers and as a guidline for newcomers.
As for the Jund + white Version of the deck, something like this comes to mind:
This makes a total core of 54 cards and 6 "flex spots", but in reality the only flex spots for me are running Rampager/Battle Rage or not and which kind of Liliana you prefer in your maindeck. The removal suite will never bee set in stone and slightly differ in each list regarding the meta it was tuned for and the choosen planeswalkers.
The same could be made for the sideboard but things get more difficult here.
3 Lingering Souls
1 Ranger of Eos
2 Fulminator Mage
Seem to be the core, then the cards and numbers start differing:
1-2 more grindy cards (K-command, Liliana the Last Hope)
1 more Land Destruction (Fulminator, Ghost Quarter)
2-3 pieces of GY Hate (Surgical, Spellbomb, Grafdiggers Cage)
2-3 pieces of additional removal (Push, Maelstrom Pulse, Abrupt Decay, Dismember)
And the rest can be considered flex spots including additional artifact hate, sweepers, additional discard, Silver Bullets etc.
Do you guys agree with this?
@purklefuff:
I' running 3 Tarfire, 3 Push, 2 Decay and 2 K-command main. Has been totally fine for me but the second decay could also be moved to the sideboard.
Greetings
I absolutely agree with everything you posted. We can also list out all flex spots cards that are considered
1) Yes the white splash is worth it. Ranger of Eos/Lingering Souls help to grind out midrange/control matchups, sideboard silverbullets in Kataki and Ethersworn are strong against other decks. Basically the white splash gives the deck a better midrange angle, as it does Aggro and Control excellently.
2) Liliana of the Veil is better for mainboard inclusion. It's 2 modes help dealing with opposing threats and shreds control/combos hands. Liliana, last hope meanwhile is great in the grindy matchups. It's +1 is decent only, but its minus ability helps the deck against removal heavy matchups. Both ultimates are game ending.
3) Grim Flayer is very good for when you choose to go a more aggro route. This deck is flexible in changing modes from aggro/midrange/control, adding the Grim Flayer pushes the aggro and midrange side but you will have to make space for it, potentially losing TBR, Liliana's, or other control cards.
4) Yes any flavor should be discussed, but understanding that Jund is the strongest at the moment is crucial to go forward. Why play the combo/Sultai/Abzan/Jund (with or without the white splash) over the proven version of the deck (unless ofcourse you are testing other avenues and are showing your results
@Gsethi999 I'd thought about rishkar and he seems good in your style of deck but not so much mine, let me know how he feels as you play games I'd be interested in getting a couple copies in my list. Also I completely forgot about the mimic, seems great and I'll have to get my set and work them into my list. I'm interested in lifecrafter's bestiary as well, I'd like to know how good that is against aggro, as it seems a little slow in that regard to me. Overall I really like your list and might adapt mine to look a little more like it.
Actually if you play Rishkar or CoCo into him, you can explode into flipping Westvale Abbey
Hello all, I'm new to this thread. I just started playing with the deck online yesterday after Modern Nexus posted an article about it, even though I've been lurking here for quite a while now. I've been playing Lantern for a good long while now, and am now looking to have a secondary deck that won't fold to the same kinds of hate. I played roughly 15 matches with the Sultai build posted before making some changes and adding in red to the mix. I'm also quite fortunate since a good chunk of the money cards are going to be reprinted in MM3 (I'll mark them), and I happen to own most/all of Thoughtseize, Bauble, Decay, Push, and Extraction that I'd need from playing Lantern.
1) I understand most people are on the Jund list, running the likes of Liliana of the Veil and other late-game cards. I've cut these entirely and am now using Ghor-Clan Rampager instead, as a tutorable, uncounterable pump spell to close out the game a la the old days of Become Immense and Temur Battle Rage. Is the Rampager a trap, or is it simply another way of building the deck? 2) How difficult is it to run four colors? Am I running the right combination of fetches and shocks? I find that in longer games, I almost run out of duals to fetch-shock in order to make Shadow live. 3)Lingering Souls and other chump blockers seem to be real problems. I've bumped up my Rampagers to include two more copies in the sideboard to accommodate; the trample has come in handy multiple times, even in the small number of games I've played. I also have considered cards like Slip Through Space and Sejiri Steppe to provide similar functionality, but fear that these also may be traps. What are your experiences with them? Have they been tried? 4) Is Postmortem Lunge a trap? Should these be Kolaghan's Command instead? EDIT: Maybe Bolt? 5) EDIT: Are there any other creatures besides Goyf and Shadow that we can run? Maybe something like Tasigur, the Golden Fang or Tombstalker? 6) Are there any other general pieces of advice you all have to offer a newer player? Are there any other critiques y'all have to offer? 7) Does this deck have its own subreddit like Lantern does? Are there any other places for discussion?
1) LotV is definitely needed as its great as either a removal or to shred combo/cotrol decks hands.
2) 4 colors is no problem, and you are simply splashing red for the rampager and terminate (I would change this to Lightning bolts in the mainboard and have some fatal pushes in the SB) You could go down to 18 lands - 12 fetches, 4 shocks, 2 basics
3) Rampagers or temur batfle rage are decent here. Though you can use sweepers instead.
4) Definitely Kolaghans. The flexiility of the spell really shines
5) Both those creatures are non-bo with goyf. But honestly you are playing the 3 best creatures in Modern
6)Definitely watch videos on the deck and keep playtesting
7) Not at the moment
Question: Everyone is running 2-3 Fulminators but how often do you actually bring those in and how effective do you find them to be?
I've been thoroughly unimpressed every time I've had one.
I like the 2/1 split with Quarter. Sometimes Quarter is clutch on holding tron off that critical turn. What's the verdict on path in the board for bigger dudes in decks like eldrazi variants?
I use the 2/1 fulminator/quarter split as well. As Mcpatches said it keeps Tron off its critical turn, and essentially kills off Valakut decks. Sideboard in surgical extractions and kill of their decks.
As for Path to exile, I would definitely consider them, BUT if an opponent somehow deals with your Godless Shrine, these are dead sideboard cards
I ended up winning the draft with a pretty nasty U/B Rise from the Tides deck. I won all of my games with Rise, one game casting it for 12. This card is seriously amazing when built around and executed correctly. This deck was seriously raunchy. Raunchy enough where I ran 42 cards.
You totally slaughtered my white section for sure. First thing is, in a Micro Cube, each card that fits in multiple archetypes, such as Spectral Procession, keeps the challenge of picking such cards 1st/2nd/3rd high. It fits in Skies, Aristocrats and Tokens, keeping anyone open to such possible archetypes until they pick one.
Fair enough. It just always nags at me when I see a card like Triplicate Spirits next to Spectral Procession in a pack or even in consecutive packs, because I'm always looking to snap up Procession but Triplicate feels so noticeably worse that if I have Procession, I'm looking for other things, and if I miss Procession, I feel bad for having the worse version. Some amount of redundancy is necessary of course and I was probably overvaluing more niche, single-archetype cards in my suggestions.
I think Wall is pretty bad for its cost outside of Ghostly Flicker situations, but since they're both kind of narrow in terms of the archetypes they go in, you see them together more often than I would and it represents a legitimate combo option for that deck. I do think that Wall is better than Archaeomancer.
What reanimator spell would you suggest? I used Dread Return as it can be used twice, and kind of suited the sacrifice theme.
Animate Dead, probably. Necromancy also has the flashy instant-speed mode. I just like the turn two discard outlet into turn three reanimate to be available somewhere. Dread Return is awesome, IMO, when you're discarding it to something and also have tokens. The first cast feels weak and flashing it back by sacrificing, like, creature cards feels really bad. You do have a large amount of tokens, but if you're trying to tone that down I think Return will get weaker as well.
Red 2 drops are definitely where all the value belong! UR spells has definitely been more aggressive for my players, and I do definitely want to add more cards for it archetype (more burn? :P). That's a great suggestion and will keep it in my maybeboard.
Maybe I have weird drafters. They never picked Illusory Angel and always play spells as control.
Yes I definitely had Servant in there as an all round fixer, but does have a decent body too. I'm considering an energy theme if possible for UG, though I feel it will stretch the cube thin.
A lot of the energy cards are good on their own, and if you go in on +1 counters, I'd look at the Thriving cycle, especially the Green and Red creatures. Thriving Rhino and Thriving Grubs. When they feed themselves, they're just fine. Servant... I don't think is as fine when it can only ramp twice, compared to other options that are permanent. I think the value of a 2/2 body is less than the value of consistent output over the game.
I've had Plated Crusher before. It simply takes over the game once in play. I do like my Cube to be interactive, so it just seems to go over the top. Perhaps my thinking is wrong, and kills off Reanimator and Ramp as viable archetypes? I definitely need maybe 1 or 2 more good reanimator ramp targets for sure.
You are right that it's dominating and pretty hard to interact with outside of a big multi-block. Still, the "dies to doom blade" argument is super real with the power level of removal we have, so I think "interactive" on a seven-mana card can be a big downside. Penumbra Wurm is an online uncommon, if you're okay with those, that's a bit stickier but doesn't have hexproof.
The problem with Fire Covenant is that its an old card, and finding it near where I live is definitely hard. It would actually help the Rakdos guild, but I've cut back on as much lifegain as possible to give aggro a leg. Redcap is a great card though and could combo off with +1/+1 counters.
Redcap is super great, of course. It just sticks out as the only hybrid card in a gold section. Balancing hybrids would take up too many slots in a small c/ube though, so I probably shouldn't harp on it.
Signal Pest is a psuedo lord for the aggro and tokens deck for sure. Its definitely been underwhelming. Any suggestions?
Nothing that I can think of that's a straight replacement. Spined Thopter or Mortarpod. Or just anything you want to add to colorless.
I thought that Pierce strider could work in flicker decks but perhaps Snare thopter may actually be the better card.
Flicker synergy is a thing, but I don't know if those decks want the life loss over flickering something like Mulldrifter or a removal creature.
Also any thoughts of adding back in Hedron Archive or adding in Mind Stone for ramp?
Mind Stone is always awesome for anything that isn't straight aggro.
For the +1/+1 counters archetype, Juniper Order Ranger will be going in the guild section, and Im definitely looking to have 2 lords in green and 2 in white. This might not be enough, but its something to start with.
The green lords are so much worse than the white ones. Trample looks real bad when compared to flying or just tapping out the opponent's team. Still, we got what we got,
I've taken your advice and posted a different cube up. Will be testing it to see how it goes
Ok guys, I've gone for a few days, to try and restructure my cube. I did it from scratch, wrote down the archetypes, put on a new cube in cubetutor, built it from the ground up, BUT I did use quite a bit of my old cards (have to use it as a base at least)
The archetypes I got down are:
Primary/Secondary
UW - Skies / Blink
UB - Control / Reanimator
UG - Ramp / Tempo (was considering this for either energy or +1/+1 counters
UR - Spells matter / Counter burn (basically same thing)
WB - Aristocrats / control
WR - Tokens / aggro
WG - +1/+1 counters / Go Wide & Tall (overrun/tokens)
BR - Sweeper Control / aggro
BG - Reanimator / The Rock
RG - Energy / +1/+1 Counters
Here's my Future Future Peasant Micro Cube! Its a Future Future cube as I'm testing this out first on Cockatrice to see how it goes. I will obviously need to keep tweaking it and do still have my original cube intact but may transform it to this after testing.
Red and Blue has mostly stayed the same, just a few cards to help the Spells archetype, and buffed up with Favourable Winds for Skies.
I've implemented +1/+1 counters in Green and White, adding 4 lords for First Strike, Flying, Trample, and Reach (I know I'm missing Elite Scaleguard, but I'm testing the curve as well). There should be plenty of support. Even a few red creatures gain +1/+1 counters, creating competition for such cards.
With Black I decided to go deeper in Aristocrats and Reanimator. Adding discard options like Skirk Ridge Exhumer, and Call of the bloodline for both archetypes, and in green adding Llanowar mentor and Greenseeker to help with discard and ramp options. I do fear there still may be an abdundance of tokens, but these come at a cost. Blue still has the same options to enable reanimator but with an additional Looter il-kor.
RG is the energy aggro deck, lead by Longtusk Cub, and backed up in the 2 artifact Modules for energy and +1/+1 counters. I fear this may come together weakly, but only through drafts I will find out.
The archetypes are definitely more vaired, but it seems the cube may be trying to do too much at once.
The tech here is Back to Nature, maybe one or two copies. I find that the sideboard bullets are probably too slow to matter (as GerryT said)
My SB is something like
1 Ranger of Eos
3 Lingering Souls
3 Fulminator Mage
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Liliana, Last Hope
1 Grafdigger's cage
2 Back to Nature
1 Kataki
Ok, loving that sweet sweet tech, though its flexibility kills it a little.
LOL the other poster is named FLYINGDelver.
Back to the topic, is there any pros posting articles (except for the premium SCG ones)
Getting screwed by ghost quarter is there, but im talking about brining blessed in decks where its likely not played. It works against burn, against an attacking etched champion/smasher, kills opposing death's shadows, or can be a combat trick to untap your creatures. The flexibility seems great
What would you side in?
For me, burn is more of a race. So:
1x Collective Brutality
2x Surgical Extraction
1x ghost quarter
2x Lingering Souls (not sure if this should be a fulminator mage?)
I definitely think we should test out Blessed Alliance
Their main outs are Galvanic Blast (main), Dismember (definitely in sb), or dispatch (very few lists run it). Affinity is my other Modern deck.
Also I definitely forgot about rec sage not being tutorable against RIP, but usually you would make them discard it first. Its still relevant against blood moon/worship/leyline/ensnaring bridge.
MB Playing:
18 lands
2 LotV
1 Ghor-clan
3 Fatal Push
3 Tarfire
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Temur Battlle Rage
2 Kolaghan's Command
Sideboard for now:
Core:
3 Lingering Souls
1 Ranger of Eos
2 Fulminator Mage
1 ghost quarter
2 surgical extraction
1 grafdiggers cage
Flex:
1 Reclamation sage (tutorable answer to RIP, Bridge, Blood Moon)
1 Ancient grudge (Affinity/Lantern/Bridge)
1 Collective Brutality (Burn and weenie matchups)
1 Liliana Last Hope (Grindy matchups)
1 Maelstrom Pulse (catch all answer)
Maybeside:
1 Blessed Alliance (can be used in mirrors, burn, eldrazi and combat trick)
1 Abrupt Decay (perhaps pulse is better in sb?)
2 Path to Exile (for large creatures)
1 Dismember (for large creatures)
I absolutely agree with everything you posted. We can also list out all flex spots cards that are considered
2) Liliana of the Veil is better for mainboard inclusion. It's 2 modes help dealing with opposing threats and shreds control/combos hands. Liliana, last hope meanwhile is great in the grindy matchups. It's +1 is decent only, but its minus ability helps the deck against removal heavy matchups. Both ultimates are game ending.
3) Grim Flayer is very good for when you choose to go a more aggro route. This deck is flexible in changing modes from aggro/midrange/control, adding the Grim Flayer pushes the aggro and midrange side but you will have to make space for it, potentially losing TBR, Liliana's, or other control cards.
4) Yes any flavor should be discussed, but understanding that Jund is the strongest at the moment is crucial to go forward. Why play the combo/Sultai/Abzan/Jund (with or without the white splash) over the proven version of the deck (unless ofcourse you are testing other avenues and are showing your results
Actually if you play Rishkar or CoCo into him, you can explode into flipping Westvale Abbey
1) LotV is definitely needed as its great as either a removal or to shred combo/cotrol decks hands.
2) 4 colors is no problem, and you are simply splashing red for the rampager and terminate (I would change this to Lightning bolts in the mainboard and have some fatal pushes in the SB) You could go down to 18 lands - 12 fetches, 4 shocks, 2 basics
3) Rampagers or temur batfle rage are decent here. Though you can use sweepers instead.
4) Definitely Kolaghans. The flexiility of the spell really shines
5) Both those creatures are non-bo with goyf. But honestly you are playing the 3 best creatures in Modern
6)Definitely watch videos on the deck and keep playtesting
7) Not at the moment
I use the 2/1 fulminator/quarter split as well. As Mcpatches said it keeps Tron off its critical turn, and essentially kills off Valakut decks. Sideboard in surgical extractions and kill of their decks.
As for Path to exile, I would definitely consider them, BUT if an opponent somehow deals with your Godless Shrine, these are dead sideboard cards
Woahh. Literally leaned on Rise from the tides. Im just testing it out now in my spells matters archetypes!
I've taken your advice and posted a different cube up. Will be testing it to see how it goes
The archetypes I got down are:
Primary/Secondary
UW - Skies / Blink
UB - Control / Reanimator
UG - Ramp / Tempo (was considering this for either energy or +1/+1 counters
UR - Spells matter / Counter burn (basically same thing)
WB - Aristocrats / control
WR - Tokens / aggro
WG - +1/+1 counters / Go Wide & Tall (overrun/tokens)
BR - Sweeper Control / aggro
BG - Reanimator / The Rock
RG - Energy / +1/+1 Counters
Here's my Future Future Peasant Micro Cube! Its a Future Future cube as I'm testing this out first on Cockatrice to see how it goes. I will obviously need to keep tweaking it and do still have my original cube intact but may transform it to this after testing.
Red and Blue has mostly stayed the same, just a few cards to help the Spells archetype, and buffed up with
Favourable Winds for Skies.
I've implemented +1/+1 counters in Green and White, adding 4 lords for First Strike, Flying, Trample, and Reach (I know I'm missing Elite Scaleguard, but I'm testing the curve as well). There should be plenty of support. Even a few red creatures gain +1/+1 counters, creating competition for such cards.
With Black I decided to go deeper in Aristocrats and Reanimator. Adding discard options like Skirk Ridge Exhumer, and Call of the bloodline for both archetypes, and in green adding Llanowar mentor and Greenseeker to help with discard and ramp options. I do fear there still may be an abdundance of tokens, but these come at a cost. Blue still has the same options to enable reanimator but with an additional Looter il-kor.
RG is the energy aggro deck, lead by Longtusk Cub, and backed up in the 2 artifact Modules for energy and +1/+1 counters. I fear this may come together weakly, but only through drafts I will find out.
The archetypes are definitely more vaired, but it seems the cube may be trying to do too much at once.
Ok, loving that sweet sweet tech, though its flexibility kills it a little.