This is HUGE news for Turns.
What y'all aren't talking about is that whether or not we even use Jace, the meta is going to shift wayyy towards blue midrange and control. We're the combo deck with 4 Gigadrowse. It's finally a reason to play Turns over Storm or Ad Nauseam.
Hi all,
So I've gotten super into the era of Magic from 1995-2001, when I used to play and when the classic strategy website The Dojo was active. I've been rebuilding a ton of Type II (Standard) decks from that era and showing some of them on my Instagram account: https://www.instagram.com/mtgdojoera/
I would love to play some of these decks some day so I had an idea for a new format, and I'm wondering if I can get some interest in it.
Dojo Standard
Rules: play any deck that was Type II legal, from Ice Age to Apocalypse (thinking about cutting it off at Prophecy instead?).
Banned list:
•Time Spiral
•Tolarian Academy
•Windfall
•Yawgmoth's Bargain
•Earthcraft
•Memory Jar
•Fluctuator
•Great Whale
•Peregrine Drake (I want to try to keep Recurring Nightmare legal, if possible)
•Mind Twist
•Dream Halls
•Mind Over Matter
Restricted List (for historical accuracy):
•Balance
•Zuran Orb
•Channel
Watch list for potentials bans/restrictions:
•Recurring Nightmare
•Squandered Resources
•Lotus Petal
•Strip Mine
•Black Vise
•Land Tax
•Hymn to Tourach
•Necropotence
So it's kind of like Historic Standard meets Old School 93/94.
Pros vs. 93/94:
-Card are still relatively available and affordable with many budget decks.
-Wider card pool with tons of different viable decks.
-More people actually played during this period than 93/94 so nostalgia is still high but it has potentially a broader player base.
Let me know what you think, and check out the decks on my Instagram page. So much fun!
So this came in the mail today from TCGPlayer seller All Cs Gaming. I have no idea if they knowingly sold a fake. I had a feeling that it was fake when I first saw it, but looking at it nothing jumped out as super obvious except the yellow pin line at the top of the border being off. The set symbol looked good, and the back actually looked way better than most fakes I've seen, although the color of the purplish oval line was a bit off. Overall the card looks a little washed out next to a real one, and on closer inspection the rosette pattern is off. It's also a little too glossy, but the fakes are definitely getting better.
One important thing I noticed: I measured the thickness of several real Tempest cards with a digital caliper, and a bunch of other real cards, and the thickness on every single one was between 12.5 and 13 thousandths of an inch. The thickness of the fake was 11-11.5 thousandths. Something to keep in mind. So yeah I'm 99% sure this is fake but I'll send it to TCGPlayer to check out.
Real Wasteland on the top, with the fake one underneath:
I was without an LGS for a while but recently found out about a new store near me offering Modern FNM so I got to pull out the old Turns deck. There were only about 16 players compared to the 30+ we used to get at the old place but I went 5-0 to win the event. 3 rounds of swiss then cut to top 4.
Round 1 2-0 vs Julian Grace-Martin playing the Hollow One/Vengevine aggro deck he debuted at SCG Syracuse over the summer.
Lost the die roll but he didn't have insane starts, I was able to keep his threats tapped down and comboed off pretty easily in both games. Brought in 2 Relic of Progenitus which helped in Game 2. Relic is great to bring in place of a couple Remands in a lot of matchups.
Round 2 2-0 vs Esper Spirits
This was kind of a brew and he just wasn't even close to fast enough. Lost the die roll again but luck was definitely "on my side" as I started with Gemstone Caverns with a luck counter both games.
Round 3 2-1 vs U/W Merfolk
Interesting deck, playing white for sideboard stuff, and Remands maindeck instead of Cursecatcher. Game 1 I didn't play around Remand and he Remanded my Time Warp two turns in a row to win the game. Games 2+3 I made sure to Gigadrowse him on end step before going off.
Top 4 2-1 vs same guy on U/W Merfolk
I lost game 2 due to never finding a Mine effect even after casting 4 cantrips but games 1+3 were pretty textbook.
Finals 1-0 vs Grixis Delver
We decided to split the prize packs, but there was an odd number so we played one game for the extra pack. I kept 4 lands and 3 Mines/Dictates and was able to win pretty easily through Thoughtseize, Delver etc.
I've been running pretty well lately (9-1 in past two FNMs) but the list I'm on seems sooo solid to the point of feeling unfair. I haven't changed a card in the maindeck and at this point I can't see changing anything in the future. It just runs so feaking smooth with the 7 cantrips. Cutting Snapcaster and Cryptic was the best decision I've ever made, feels like I can't lose since maxing out on cantrips and Gigadrowse/Exhaustion.
I did test Opt and Search for Azcanta. Opt, to me, is almost trash level. Very inferior to Sleight of Hand in this deck. Search is interesting, but it didn't convince me to take out any Howling Mines. In a lot of matchups where they are attacking your hand it's just critical to get raw numbers of cards into your hand early.
Also Thing in the Ice has overperformed for me and I think the 1-2 split is perfect.
Hey all, I started an Instagram page for all the old-timers or anyone interested in mid to late 90s Magic. My collection is nowhere near a lot of Instagrammers but there will be a lot of nostalgia and historical tidbits for sure. Come check it out and follow if you want to see zero new-frame cards
Sounds like you've found a great general to start with. You asked about what cards win games in UW decks a bit further up. What win conditions have you got so far? You've got resilience built in to Hanna which is great. How do you use it to your advantage?
Well, I decided to use Meekstone as a primary control piece that can be tutored up early, along with Dream Tides (old favorite) so I have a few vigilance creatures including Sun Titan and Opal Archangel which seems cool in this deck.
Beyond the creatures I have Sigil of the Empty Throne, Starfield of Nyx, and Opalescence. Also decided to throw in Dance of Many to combo with Starfield and Opalescence. Also I guess Mindslaver recursion can kill people, hope nobody throws me out for that one
Ha, well I definitely don't want to be Hitler, especially considering my Jewish heritage.
I actually tried putting together some non-blue decks like a R/G creature/ramp deck and a G/W token/anthem thing but I think if I'm going to get excited about this format I have to pick the low-hanging fruit of what I really enjoy first and then maybe try out other strategies later.
I've gotten a ton of useful advice out of this thread and my Hanna, Ship's Navigator deck is starting to come together.
It's looking like it will have:
-Only 2 counterspells (Counterspell and Arcane Denial) because they don't fit that well in the deck anyway.
-I think the only silly infinite combo I have is Parallax Wave, Parallax Tide, Opalescence.
-Only pillow fort type effects that affect people attacking ME, not the entire game so no Moat, Stasis or the like.
-A single Armageddon for LD just because it works so well with artifact mana and Propaganda effects
I threw in a few Angels and Sphinxes to help win the game hopefully.
This deck has a lot of things that are close to my heart... I won multiple type II tournaments when I was 13 with the Replenish deck and also top 16'd the JSS Championship with it. Also throwing in lots of cards that were awesome back in the day like Jester's Cap, Mystic Remora, Grinning Totem, Browse, Island Sanctuary, etc.
If the people I play with complain I can always switch some things out.
For a u/w prisonish control deck what kind of cards would you guys recommend for closing out the game? I have no idea how these games play out but I guess I'll find out soon. Thanks.
I love the idea of using the opponents' stuff against them.
Thanks for the advice. I originally had my eye on shenanigans like Nekusar, the Mindrazer and Arcanis the Omnipotent but I decided to keep the combo side of things (as well as my love for taking extra turns) to a bare minimum because I can definitely see how things like infinite comboing everyone out at the same time or taking all the turns is not fun for anybody.
I'm not just into winning the game as quickly as possible, I also like things long and drawn out.
I think I will be happy with a fair U/W controllish deck with an enchantment/light prison theme so we'll see how it goes. I can see JohnnyDegenerate's point that once you get into the fun of it you loosen up and find the things that really make the format cool.
Wow, thanks for all the quick replies. To be clear, my goal is not to make other people miserable at all, just afraid that the things that I find fun might do that by accident I think I will dip my toe in and see how it goes.
Let me start by saying that I generally prefer competitive 1v1 60-card constructed formats. BUT people are always asking me if I play Commander so I feel like I'm missing out on something really cool and fun. I have had fun playing multiplayer in the past.
I'm interested in getting into the format to play for fun at my LGS in between rounds of Modern (1v1) and with a friend's playgroup. I think the playgroup is pretty casual and fun oriented but they are enfranchised and have a lot of cards at the same time.
Here's my problem: from what I can gather and have heard about the format, the things that I find "fun" are pretty much diametrically opposed to what most people seem to enjoy. What scares me from getting into the format is the social norms around using "unfun" strategies. From what I can tell the goal is not "abuse your opponents as much as possible" like it is in Modern for example.
Here is a list of strategies and cards that I find truly fun to play with and against (no I'm not joking).
In my opinion in Magic you should try to abuse your opponent in any way possible, and be prepared to defend yourself from the same, and disrupt your opponent's game plan so they can't do unfair things to you. Basically no hold barred, although I do agree with having a banlist to prevent things that are too broken or consistent.
So am I a bad person who will be shunned from this format, or should I finally put a deck together? I was thinking Hanna, Ship's Navigator as the commander. Thanks in advance.
Welcome Daniel!
I love how well you've thought through the deck and card choices (right down to the Snow-Covered Island). That report should 100% be front and center in the primer.
I'm definitely curious about why you dislike Remand so much. Have you ever Remanded a 4-drop?
What y'all aren't talking about is that whether or not we even use Jace, the meta is going to shift wayyy towards blue midrange and control. We're the combo deck with 4 Gigadrowse. It's finally a reason to play Turns over Storm or Ad Nauseam.
So I've gotten super into the era of Magic from 1995-2001, when I used to play and when the classic strategy website The Dojo was active. I've been rebuilding a ton of Type II (Standard) decks from that era and showing some of them on my Instagram account: https://www.instagram.com/mtgdojoera/
I would love to play some of these decks some day so I had an idea for a new format, and I'm wondering if I can get some interest in it.
Dojo Standard
Rules: play any deck that was Type II legal, from Ice Age to Apocalypse (thinking about cutting it off at Prophecy instead?).
Banned list:
•Time Spiral
•Tolarian Academy
•Windfall
•Yawgmoth's Bargain
•Earthcraft
•Memory Jar
•Fluctuator
•Great Whale
•Peregrine Drake (I want to try to keep Recurring Nightmare legal, if possible)
•Mind Twist
•Dream Halls
•Mind Over Matter
Restricted List (for historical accuracy):
•Balance
•Zuran Orb
•Channel
Watch list for potentials bans/restrictions:
•Recurring Nightmare
•Squandered Resources
•Lotus Petal
•Strip Mine
•Black Vise
•Land Tax
•Hymn to Tourach
•Necropotence
So it's kind of like Historic Standard meets Old School 93/94.
Pros vs. 93/94:
-Card are still relatively available and affordable with many budget decks.
-Wider card pool with tons of different viable decks.
-More people actually played during this period than 93/94 so nostalgia is still high but it has potentially a broader player base.
Let me know what you think, and check out the decks on my Instagram page. So much fun!
One important thing I noticed: I measured the thickness of several real Tempest cards with a digital caliper, and a bunch of other real cards, and the thickness on every single one was between 12.5 and 13 thousandths of an inch. The thickness of the fake was 11-11.5 thousandths. Something to keep in mind. So yeah I'm 99% sure this is fake but I'll send it to TCGPlayer to check out.
Real Wasteland on the top, with the fake one underneath:
Round 1 2-0 vs Julian Grace-Martin playing the Hollow One/Vengevine aggro deck he debuted at SCG Syracuse over the summer.
Lost the die roll but he didn't have insane starts, I was able to keep his threats tapped down and comboed off pretty easily in both games. Brought in 2 Relic of Progenitus which helped in Game 2. Relic is great to bring in place of a couple Remands in a lot of matchups.
Round 2 2-0 vs Esper Spirits
This was kind of a brew and he just wasn't even close to fast enough. Lost the die roll again but luck was definitely "on my side" as I started with Gemstone Caverns with a luck counter both games.
Round 3 2-1 vs U/W Merfolk
Interesting deck, playing white for sideboard stuff, and Remands maindeck instead of Cursecatcher. Game 1 I didn't play around Remand and he Remanded my Time Warp two turns in a row to win the game. Games 2+3 I made sure to Gigadrowse him on end step before going off.
Top 4 2-1 vs same guy on U/W Merfolk
I lost game 2 due to never finding a Mine effect even after casting 4 cantrips but games 1+3 were pretty textbook.
Finals 1-0 vs Grixis Delver
We decided to split the prize packs, but there was an odd number so we played one game for the extra pack. I kept 4 lands and 3 Mines/Dictates and was able to win pretty easily through Thoughtseize, Delver etc.
I've been running pretty well lately (9-1 in past two FNMs) but the list I'm on seems sooo solid to the point of feeling unfair. I haven't changed a card in the maindeck and at this point I can't see changing anything in the future. It just runs so feaking smooth with the 7 cantrips. Cutting Snapcaster and Cryptic was the best decision I've ever made, feels like I can't lose since maxing out on cantrips and Gigadrowse/Exhaustion.
I did test Opt and Search for Azcanta. Opt, to me, is almost trash level. Very inferior to Sleight of Hand in this deck. Search is interesting, but it didn't convince me to take out any Howling Mines. In a lot of matchups where they are attacking your hand it's just critical to get raw numbers of cards into your hand early.
Also Thing in the Ice has overperformed for me and I think the 1-2 split is perfect.
3x Howling Mine
1x Thing in the Ice
4x Serum Visions
3x Sleight of Hand
4x Exhaustion
4x Gigadrowse
4x Remand
3x Temporal Mastery
4x Time Warp
20x Island
1x Gemstone Caverns
1x Inkmoth Nexus
1x Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1x Echoing Truth
2x Gut Shot
3x Hurkyl's Recall
2x Redirect
2x Relic of Progenitus
3x Spell Pierce
2x Thing in the Ice
@mtgdojoera
https://www.instagram.com/mtgdojoera/?hl=en
Well, I decided to use Meekstone as a primary control piece that can be tutored up early, along with Dream Tides (old favorite) so I have a few vigilance creatures including Sun Titan and Opal Archangel which seems cool in this deck.
Beyond the creatures I have Sigil of the Empty Throne, Starfield of Nyx, and Opalescence. Also decided to throw in Dance of Many to combo with Starfield and Opalescence. Also I guess Mindslaver recursion can kill people, hope nobody throws me out for that one
I actually tried putting together some non-blue decks like a R/G creature/ramp deck and a G/W token/anthem thing but I think if I'm going to get excited about this format I have to pick the low-hanging fruit of what I really enjoy first and then maybe try out other strategies later.
I've gotten a ton of useful advice out of this thread and my Hanna, Ship's Navigator deck is starting to come together.
It's looking like it will have:
-Only 2 counterspells (Counterspell and Arcane Denial) because they don't fit that well in the deck anyway.
-I think the only silly infinite combo I have is Parallax Wave, Parallax Tide, Opalescence.
-Only pillow fort type effects that affect people attacking ME, not the entire game so no Moat, Stasis or the like.
-A single Armageddon for LD just because it works so well with artifact mana and Propaganda effects
I threw in a few Angels and Sphinxes to help win the game hopefully.
This deck has a lot of things that are close to my heart... I won multiple type II tournaments when I was 13 with the Replenish deck and also top 16'd the JSS Championship with it. Also throwing in lots of cards that were awesome back in the day like Jester's Cap, Mystic Remora, Grinning Totem, Browse, Island Sanctuary, etc.
If the people I play with complain I can always switch some things out.
I love the idea of using the opponents' stuff against them.
I'm not just into winning the game as quickly as possible, I also like things long and drawn out.
I think I will be happy with a fair U/W controllish deck with an enchantment/light prison theme so we'll see how it goes. I can see JohnnyDegenerate's point that once you get into the fun of it you loosen up and find the things that really make the format cool.
I'm interested in getting into the format to play for fun at my LGS in between rounds of Modern (1v1) and with a friend's playgroup. I think the playgroup is pretty casual and fun oriented but they are enfranchised and have a lot of cards at the same time.
Here's my problem: from what I can gather and have heard about the format, the things that I find "fun" are pretty much diametrically opposed to what most people seem to enjoy. What scares me from getting into the format is the social norms around using "unfun" strategies. From what I can tell the goal is not "abuse your opponents as much as possible" like it is in Modern for example.
Here is a list of strategies and cards that I find truly fun to play with and against (no I'm not joking).
-Counterspells
-Combos like High Tide, infinite combos, anything where I can draw my whole deck, do unfair things etc.
-Prison-style enchantments like Stasis, Propaganda, Ghostly Prison, Dream Tides
-Mass land destruction like Armageddon, Cataclysm
In my opinion in Magic you should try to abuse your opponent in any way possible, and be prepared to defend yourself from the same, and disrupt your opponent's game plan so they can't do unfair things to you. Basically no hold barred, although I do agree with having a banlist to prevent things that are too broken or consistent.
So am I a bad person who will be shunned from this format, or should I finally put a deck together? I was thinking Hanna, Ship's Navigator as the commander. Thanks in advance.
I love how well you've thought through the deck and card choices (right down to the Snow-Covered Island). That report should 100% be front and center in the primer.
I'm definitely curious about why you dislike Remand so much. Have you ever Remanded a 4-drop?