Hey, guys, sorry to ask to this, but how's the matchup against RG tron? With the oops, I win combo, it seems like it has potential
In all truth, do a majority of you guys think this deck just seems too cute, or really could be a breakout deck when modern season rolls around in a few months?
So, I'm still incredibly torn by just little things in what to do for my affinity deck
I thought about it though, and in a way, 2 thoughtcasts can, to some extent, make up for 1 missing glimmervoid and that 1 memnite. Will the opening hand always? No, of course. I wanted to maximize board presence and some have some resilience with those 2 walkers, while having that 5th 3 drop another reason to keep an opening hand and a top deck
Anyone test anything similar? I'm not sure if Hangarback is the real deal or just too slow. The spellskites can come in for overseers, signal pests, galvanic blasts, etc, when I need to protect cards.
Spellskite seems to be better than hangarbacks if there's not as much of a race and opponents try to cast one for one spells, and lack board wipes
I can't believe how radically different the deck is just from debating about 4 glimmervoids, 3 memnites and thought casts
I like the deck as a whole and kinda feel conflicted
Hmmm, I've seen that hangarback walkers are seriously falling out of contention. I went on mtggoldfish and TCG and looked at winning lists, and it seems like he was used more like a trend, because very few people are now using it this past month and a half
I'm still tweaking things, I do think I want to stay with the 3 Etched Champion/2 Master of Etherium, but I'm now debating on a few things
-Whether to go back down to 16 lands, despite having 5 3 drops.
-Whether to drop memnite down to 2 to add another 2 drop, which means I'm now at 16 lands and 2 memnites, which is a little less consistent in explosive opening hands
How come some people don't just say screw the galvanic blast/thoughtcast, and add 1 or 2 creatures instead? I'm not sure if the meta really wants thoughtcast right now. While it's super awesome playing out the whole hand turn 1 and then thoughtcasting for 1 on turn 2 and getting a cranial plating, I'm not sure thats a consistent enough payoff.
I'm almost thinking of going 3 Galvanic blast, and 1 welding jar. I'm rarely happy to see galvanic blast unless it's against Twin and a Tron player stabilizing with Karn. However, close to no lists run just 3 spells, so I figure there's a good reason. Can anyone explain why?
Tempered Steel looks amazing, but 2 white means that it's unplayable 20 percent of the time, according to Frank Karsten. Too bad.
Question for you guys, it's pretty common we see hands like
Now, if they don't remove steel overseer, that's an amazing hand. I imagine most opponents will absolutely pluck that overseer from the battlefield. Do you guys often risk keep that hand hoping overseer isn't killed? Mulligan? Do you guys straight up remove him against very interactive decks, and only keep him against decks with little to no spot removal? Just kind of curious because I find if he dies and I don't top deck a 3 drop, ravager or cranial plating, that's gg for me
Don't mean to ask so many questions, I originally bought Affinity to play on the side for my jund/abzan deck, and think I like it even more, that, and everyone in my meta is running Tron
So, I played my friends Azorious control deck. I have to say, wow, what a hard matchup. They just need to survive until turn 4 for the Supreme Verdict, and remove any huge threat like Ravager, Steel overseer, Master of Etherium/Champ, and hopefully snare a cranial plating
Game 1's were fine, but turn 2 I couldn't make a decent.
I know he has 2 stoney silences and 1 Kataki, and he used whichever Gideon it is that forces creatures to attack him
I can clearly see that Overseer is clearly useless, and would just board out all 3. They have way too much removal, and all the mass removal to make investing in him pointless
I was going to board out spellskite, but with supreme verdict I just found it pointless since he puts no pressure on him.
Any recommendations or is this one of those 30/70 matchups?
Steelshaper's gifts kinda interesting. One 1 white mana isn't bad, and easily accomplished. It's almost like running extra cranial platings in the deck
It can't be that great if no one's really used it, right? I'll playtest it on tapped out.
Also, I actually got to play 2 sets of games against a friend, the 3/2 split worked out surprisingly well, he had lingering souls out and it didn't even matter when I had 2 masters out. I was only running the 3/1 split before yesterday, but having just 1 more trump card feels great, and helps out statistically on having it in the opening hand or in the next 3 draws. Glad I took out the welding jar and put in another must answer card
I.took your advice and put a master of etherium in place of the welding jar. The 2/3 split is nice, but I don't think I'd get any more greedy and take out the 4th glimmervoid or 3rd memnite, especially with 6 colored cards in the main deck now, not as long as the 27th creature spot is the 5th 3 drop.
I've been going back to 17 lands and upping memnite back to 3, and I have to say, frank karsten is right, opening hands are a lot more explosive and more consistent. I don't feel like I'm getting too mana flooded either.
However, to help with opening hands and keep something like a steel overseer, I'm using a welding jar now. It's awesome to save a seer but it's not proactive. Does help activating mox opals though.
With all this im down to 26 creatures, and that almost feels like a low number in affinity! Kinda wondering if that welding jar should become a 1 hangarback walker or a 4th overseer. Spellskite is awesome but better in game 2s where you aim for resiliency a little more than speed.
3 etched champion and 2 master of etherium also seem way too clunky.
I was using the typical 4 galvanic blast, but outside of twin and maybe racing tron in game 1, I hate seeing this card in my hand. Is going on a 2 and 2 split on galvanic and thoughtcast really that bad idea unless you're in a heavy gbx meta?
you added a land (16 to 17), added a Memnite (2 to 3), added a Welding Jar, you find 3 champ and 2 master clunky, and you think your more explosive?
none of that makes any sense to me... your now less likely to open with a champ/master by reducing one, and welding jar doesn't help kill the opponent...
i dont see how adding a land is going to help with explosiveness, only consistency but its heavily been debated for years if it is worth it and/or necessary. people have been fine for years and I mean Years of running 16 land in this deck and winning huge tournaments and/or placing top 8. same with 2 memnites. for every guy that runs 17, another guy runs 16. same with the memnite count.
i really dont see a land and a memnite helping you ultimately win any quicker Or more often if your running a list like 4 steel overseer and 3-4 etched champion or something similar.... they are both so slow. every spot in this deck is extremely valuable.
you have to mull aggressively with this deck, and i can say from experience that with 17 lands, too many hands were unkeepable via too many lands in my hand as opposed to too few, which is just as bad as a problem. your not hoping to draw a land a majority of the time either, even if its just one extra land there is an increased chance
You're completely proving my point. You're saying every card in this deck matters, I've found the 3rd memnite and 4th glimmervoid WAY more consistent in opening hands. And while of course you don't want to be mana flooded, having just two mana available and having to slowly put out a cranial plating, equipping it, putting out more threats, etc, can be a problem if it's too slow.
You did convince me that with the 17th land and 3rd memnite that perhaps the 1 welding jar is a huge mistake. I think the welding jar could only work in that spot without the 17th land.
I suppose I'll tinker with that spot and see if I should add either a spellskite, a Master of Etherium, a 4th overseer, or 1 hangarback walker. I'm worried 3 Etched Champions and 2 Masters may be too clunky
4 Siege Rhino's
1 Tasigur
4 Lingering Souls
1 Dismember
1 Malestrom Pulse
4 Lilianna of the Veil
Junk uses about 15 cards on average that have a cost of 3 CMC on average
Jund uses 9 cards on average that are 3+ CMC, 2 cards that DON'T use a card with 4 CMC.
That's a massive difference.
On top of it, let's not forget that Jund has a way, way WAY better mana base. Junk's shaky mana base hits itself for a lot of damage before it wins most games, I don't think it can afford to play Confidant. Against weaker players at an lgs, sure, at a competetive competition--hell no.
Bob only does about 1.5 damage to jund players per turn, don't know what junk's average is
Also, this deck isn't playable without Goyfs and Lillies, people should play Abzan Wilted if they can't afford them or don't want to pay for them. No, there's no good alternatives, if there were, they wouldn't be 90+ dollar cards
What do you guys think of the Junk deck kinda slowly intermingling with the wilted version? Did anyone see that article on Modernexus with the deck that had the typical uni list except it had 3x Noble Hierarchs and had 2x Voice of Resurgence
Junk has to change something to be competitive against Jund right now
I've been going back to 17 lands and upping memnite back to 3, and I have to say, frank karsten is right, opening hands are a lot more explosive and more consistent. I don't feel like I'm getting too mana flooded either.
However, to help with opening hands and keep something like a steel overseer, I'm using a welding jar now. It's awesome to save a seer but it's not proactive. Does help activating mox opals though.
With all this im down to 26 creatures, and that almost feels like a low number in affinity! Kinda wondering if that welding jar should become a 1 hangarback walker or a 4th overseer. Spellskite is awesome but better in game 2s where you aim for resiliency a little more than speed.
3 etched champion and 2 master of etherium also seem way too clunky.
I was using the typical 4 galvanic blast, but outside of twin and maybe racing tron in game 1, I hate seeing this card in my hand. Is going on a 2 and 2 split on galvanic and thoughtcast really that bad idea unless you're in a heavy gbx meta?
I wouldn't keep a majority of those opening hands. Most of them have no explosive openings and rely purely on either another land or a cranial plating topdeck. I think I'd mulligan all but two or three of those hands you listed.
If your hand can't kill someone by turn 4 or 5 in a scenario with no removal or chump blockers, it should probably be mulled.
Did you guys see that the top 8 list of Indy's standard list was a medium of 640 dollars? Like, wow.
I know quite a few competitive standard players feel that modern is too expensive, but it's way, WAY the hell more cost effective in the long run. 640 dollars can nearly get you an Affinity deck, burn, RG Tron, menfolk, etc. I'm so glad I cashed out of standard, it's just too much and loses too much value
No way, man. An unanswered steel overseer for more than 1 turn is almost aways a win. He's also great for putting out first before ravager and cranial playing
I saw one or two lists run 2 seers and that looked really iffy.
That being said, If he's ever reprinted it's hopefully called "lightning rod"
Ok. Got more questions for you more experienced Affinity players
These are more questions for an unknown meta
How do you guys feel about the welding jar in an unknown meta?
A lot of people are cutting menmite down to 2, he sucks, but he really does help with those opening nut hands to feed mox opal/springleaf and help the swarm strategy, along with ravager/steel overseer, right?
Frank Karsten seems to be a huge advocate for the 17th land. I mulligan aggressively finding the opening hand is too clunky or slow. Of course I mulligan if it's too much fuel and too little threat too
Is running 5 4 drops in the MB just ASKING to start slow and clunky? I run the 3 Etched Champion/1 Master of Etherium
I can see 2x Spellskite working viciously in very controlling matches, but when I need to race, he's a huge liability, I found, and I suppose main boarding him may be a huge meta call
Why does almost no list run 4x Steel Overseer, he's one of our wincons, and one of the openings cards that we decided if a hand is keepable
Just coming home from a night of modern. Was doing very well, but I lost to the top 2 guys, who were both playing RG Tron
I don't know what I could have done differently, I'd say I was playing a fairly stocklist except with two Skites in the MB and the 4 Galvanic Blast in the MB
I wanna ask, what kind of hands are you guys typically wanting against that matchup? I almost don't feel like I have time to set up too much with pyroclasm, O-Stone and Karn
Also, was looking at this primer---Is Bloodmoon actually a good idea? It turns our lands off and it may delay them just a little
I was boarding out my 3 Champions and 1 Master of Etherium for 2 Thoughtseize and 2 Ancient Grudge--but is that right?
In all truth, do a majority of you guys think this deck just seems too cute, or really could be a breakout deck when modern season rolls around in a few months?
If a meta has a crap ton of wraths and hate, what kind of list would you guys suggest?
4x Arcbound Ravager
3x Etched Champion
2x Hangarback Walker
2x Master of Etherium
2x Memnite
4x Ornithopter
4x Signal Pest
3x Steel Overseer
4x Vault Skirge
2x thoughtcast
instant
2x galvanic blast
artifact
4x Cranial Plating
4x Mox Opal
4x Springleaf Drum
land
4x Blinkmoth Nexus
4x Darksteel Citadel
3x Glimmervoid
4x Inkmoth Nexus
1x Island
2x thoughtseize
3x ancient grudge
2x spellskite
2x bloodmoon
1x dismember
1x torpor orb
1x ethersworn canonist
2x whipflare
1x etched champion
So, I'm still incredibly torn by just little things in what to do for my affinity deck
I thought about it though, and in a way, 2 thoughtcasts can, to some extent, make up for 1 missing glimmervoid and that 1 memnite. Will the opening hand always? No, of course. I wanted to maximize board presence and some have some resilience with those 2 walkers, while having that 5th 3 drop another reason to keep an opening hand and a top deck
Anyone test anything similar? I'm not sure if Hangarback is the real deal or just too slow. The spellskites can come in for overseers, signal pests, galvanic blasts, etc, when I need to protect cards.
Spellskite seems to be better than hangarbacks if there's not as much of a race and opponents try to cast one for one spells, and lack board wipes
I can't believe how radically different the deck is just from debating about 4 glimmervoids, 3 memnites and thought casts
I like the deck as a whole and kinda feel conflicted
I'm still tweaking things, I do think I want to stay with the 3 Etched Champion/2 Master of Etherium, but I'm now debating on a few things
-Whether to go back down to 16 lands, despite having 5 3 drops.
-Whether to drop memnite down to 2 to add another 2 drop, which means I'm now at 16 lands and 2 memnites, which is a little less consistent in explosive opening hands
How come some people don't just say screw the galvanic blast/thoughtcast, and add 1 or 2 creatures instead? I'm not sure if the meta really wants thoughtcast right now. While it's super awesome playing out the whole hand turn 1 and then thoughtcasting for 1 on turn 2 and getting a cranial plating, I'm not sure thats a consistent enough payoff.
I'm almost thinking of going 3 Galvanic blast, and 1 welding jar. I'm rarely happy to see galvanic blast unless it's against Twin and a Tron player stabilizing with Karn. However, close to no lists run just 3 spells, so I figure there's a good reason. Can anyone explain why?
Tempered Steel looks amazing, but 2 white means that it's unplayable 20 percent of the time, according to Frank Karsten. Too bad.
Question for you guys, it's pretty common we see hands like
1 land, 1 mox opal, 1 memnite, 2 ornithopters 1 steel overseer, 1 vault skirge.
Now, if they don't remove steel overseer, that's an amazing hand. I imagine most opponents will absolutely pluck that overseer from the battlefield. Do you guys often risk keep that hand hoping overseer isn't killed? Mulligan? Do you guys straight up remove him against very interactive decks, and only keep him against decks with little to no spot removal? Just kind of curious because I find if he dies and I don't top deck a 3 drop, ravager or cranial plating, that's gg for me
Don't mean to ask so many questions, I originally bought Affinity to play on the side for my jund/abzan deck, and think I like it even more, that, and everyone in my meta is running Tron
Game 1's were fine, but turn 2 I couldn't make a decent.
I know he has 2 stoney silences and 1 Kataki, and he used whichever Gideon it is that forces creatures to attack him
I sideboarded out
-2 Galvanic blast
-2 Thoughtcast
-1 Signal pest
+2 Blood moon
+2 Thoughtseize
1+ Ghiapur Ethergrid
I can clearly see that Overseer is clearly useless, and would just board out all 3. They have way too much removal, and all the mass removal to make investing in him pointless
I was going to board out spellskite, but with supreme verdict I just found it pointless since he puts no pressure on him.
Any recommendations or is this one of those 30/70 matchups?
It can't be that great if no one's really used it, right? I'll playtest it on tapped out.
Also, I actually got to play 2 sets of games against a friend, the 3/2 split worked out surprisingly well, he had lingering souls out and it didn't even matter when I had 2 masters out. I was only running the 3/1 split before yesterday, but having just 1 more trump card feels great, and helps out statistically on having it in the opening hand or in the next 3 draws. Glad I took out the welding jar and put in another must answer card
You're completely proving my point. You're saying every card in this deck matters, I've found the 3rd memnite and 4th glimmervoid WAY more consistent in opening hands. And while of course you don't want to be mana flooded, having just two mana available and having to slowly put out a cranial plating, equipping it, putting out more threats, etc, can be a problem if it's too slow.
You did convince me that with the 17th land and 3rd memnite that perhaps the 1 welding jar is a huge mistake. I think the welding jar could only work in that spot without the 17th land.
I suppose I'll tinker with that spot and see if I should add either a spellskite, a Master of Etherium, a 4th overseer, or 1 hangarback walker. I'm worried 3 Etched Champions and 2 Masters may be too clunky
Bob with
4 Siege Rhino's
1 Tasigur
4 Lingering Souls
1 Dismember
1 Malestrom Pulse
4 Lilianna of the Veil
Junk uses about 15 cards on average that have a cost of 3 CMC on average
Jund uses 9 cards on average that are 3+ CMC, 2 cards that DON'T use a card with 4 CMC.
That's a massive difference.
On top of it, let's not forget that Jund has a way, way WAY better mana base. Junk's shaky mana base hits itself for a lot of damage before it wins most games, I don't think it can afford to play Confidant. Against weaker players at an lgs, sure, at a competetive competition--hell no.
Bob only does about 1.5 damage to jund players per turn, don't know what junk's average is
Also, this deck isn't playable without Goyfs and Lillies, people should play Abzan Wilted if they can't afford them or don't want to pay for them. No, there's no good alternatives, if there were, they wouldn't be 90+ dollar cards
What do you guys think of the Junk deck kinda slowly intermingling with the wilted version? Did anyone see that article on Modernexus with the deck that had the typical uni list except it had 3x Noble Hierarchs and had 2x Voice of Resurgence
Junk has to change something to be competitive against Jund right now
However, to help with opening hands and keep something like a steel overseer, I'm using a welding jar now. It's awesome to save a seer but it's not proactive. Does help activating mox opals though.
With all this im down to 26 creatures, and that almost feels like a low number in affinity! Kinda wondering if that welding jar should become a 1 hangarback walker or a 4th overseer. Spellskite is awesome but better in game 2s where you aim for resiliency a little more than speed.
3 etched champion and 2 master of etherium also seem way too clunky.
I was using the typical 4 galvanic blast, but outside of twin and maybe racing tron in game 1, I hate seeing this card in my hand. Is going on a 2 and 2 split on galvanic and thoughtcast really that bad idea unless you're in a heavy gbx meta?
If your hand can't kill someone by turn 4 or 5 in a scenario with no removal or chump blockers, it should probably be mulled.
I know quite a few competitive standard players feel that modern is too expensive, but it's way, WAY the hell more cost effective in the long run. 640 dollars can nearly get you an Affinity deck, burn, RG Tron, menfolk, etc. I'm so glad I cashed out of standard, it's just too much and loses too much value
I saw one or two lists run 2 seers and that looked really iffy.
That being said, If he's ever reprinted it's hopefully called "lightning rod"
These are more questions for an unknown meta
How do you guys feel about the welding jar in an unknown meta?
A lot of people are cutting menmite down to 2, he sucks, but he really does help with those opening nut hands to feed mox opal/springleaf and help the swarm strategy, along with ravager/steel overseer, right?
Frank Karsten seems to be a huge advocate for the 17th land. I mulligan aggressively finding the opening hand is too clunky or slow. Of course I mulligan if it's too much fuel and too little threat too
Is running 5 4 drops in the MB just ASKING to start slow and clunky? I run the 3 Etched Champion/1 Master of Etherium
I can see 2x Spellskite working viciously in very controlling matches, but when I need to race, he's a huge liability, I found, and I suppose main boarding him may be a huge meta call
Why does almost no list run 4x Steel Overseer, he's one of our wincons, and one of the openings cards that we decided if a hand is keepable
I don't know what I could have done differently, I'd say I was playing a fairly stocklist except with two Skites in the MB and the 4 Galvanic Blast in the MB
I wanna ask, what kind of hands are you guys typically wanting against that matchup? I almost don't feel like I have time to set up too much with pyroclasm, O-Stone and Karn
Also, was looking at this primer---Is Bloodmoon actually a good idea? It turns our lands off and it may delay them just a little
I was boarding out my 3 Champions and 1 Master of Etherium for 2 Thoughtseize and 2 Ancient Grudge--but is that right?