MTG Salvation

I mean, while its true Hoogak didn't have extreme numbers dont forget people were outrageously prepared for it. We're talking like 7-9 hate pieces in a bunch of decks, this by no means reliquenishes Hoogak being problematic.

I mean, Phoenix is definitely a quiet offender. It had fantastic results at the MC tournament, but due to limited I don't think Phoenix was properly represented.


I very much think faithless looting is becoming an issue for modern and could go down the road of Probe. No, faithless looting is not to nerf Hoogak decks, it's an overall meta health issue.

Haha, Hoogak swings for 17 on turn 2 against burn, and Reid Duke on commentary says that wasn't even the best hand.


This is definitely worthy of an emergency ban.

I don't even know what should be banned, I think it'll honestly take both pieces of something.

Hoogak was an extremely horribly designed mistake, and they printed this for modern so there's no excuse to say it slipped their radar.

I made out like a bandit for the foils I needed

2x foil Wrenns for 90 a piece, 2x non foil for low 20's, 2x foil Plague Engineers for 6 a piece, 2x Collector Ouphe foils for 14 a piece, 4x Seasoned Pyromancer for 45 a piece.

I think hoogak will be banned in order to avoid eldrazi winter on camera at an MC. Unless it completely flops this coming weekend in results.

The deck is broken. I dont need more convincing. This isnt some cute plays with shadow or Phoenix. The deck is very much busted. You stick s leyline or jailer or 100 percent lose. Reid Duke on camera last night had no issues facing fast decks with it for a turn 3 win.

Deck is getting banned, let's not do this foolishness again, we all said to give eldrazi a chance for data collection. This is easily a tier 0 deck. Ban it. Its not healthy to see 8 or 9 gy hate in people's 75.

We're all up in the discord channel, join us, man

This is depressing, as I did use established section as a real resource for fine tuning decks. Man, this is a bummer

I'm absolutely glued to this spoiler season so I can say, "SEE, I TOLD YOU SO!" to absolutely ******* nobody; it's actually quite unhealthy. I'm not usually expecting much if anything from spoilers and sets, but WOTC and the community have hyped this set up so much as being a second coming that I expected my archetype not to be fed hot garbage.


Like, as of now, Jund, Rock, Shadow have still received nothing. Abzan received a card, but Abzan has so many fundamental issues as of now it doesn't matter. I also think Kara's Guile is more of an esper card not Abzan. God knows the 3 drop slot in that deck is already filled with too much.

I just want a god damn good card, and so far most of Tuesday's big spoilers is already done with. So far Yawgmoth and a 3/3 undead dude isn't doing it. Neither is an unplayable snow deluge (not enough product).

God, based off these black cards revealed in the spoilers midrange was definitely not in mind when horizon was being created.

These horrible 4 drop black creatures are barely playable

Devoted midrange black deck, yo.


I think Abzan Company decks are coming back into modern.

I wonder what a devoted black deck with these cards look like. Or if it would splash white, which is probable.

Whichever. I'm massively bitter as a thoughtseize player with Horizon due to the awful spoilers so far in the archetype, but I can admit this set will change modern quite a bit as a whole. I wonder what changes to become the top decks.

Quote from MarcWizard »

We're not talking about that resilience though; the key topic I see being discussed is the T4 rule. The same rule that Vizier and Affinity break on a regular basis.

Not entirely sure what you and spiegel are arguing about, but this quoted piece is not untrue. Neither Affinity nor Counters Company "consistently"/"frequently" win before T4. They can win on T3, but that's not the rule. To break the T4 rule, a deck must do so consistently/frequently. In my 2015 MTGO dataset with about 3000 Affinity games, the deck won on T3 in about 6% of total games, which was well under the Bloom # for the same time period (about 18%). In a separate Counters Company analysis of 2017 paper games, we find that Company has an average T3 win% of about 3.6%. If we resample that to increase N, we find a range of possible T3 win%s between 0% and 10.7%. The odds that Company and Bloom share the same T3 win % is only about 4%. Statistically, that means they probably are not the same and we can be pretty sure Company is not a real T4 violator.

It is much more likely that Storm is a real T4 violator than either Affinity or Company: 23% chance by my last calculation. As for Affinity and Company, it is, at best, inaccurate to compare the decks to Storm/Bloom/T4 violators. At worst, it is deliberately misleading.

Quote from Aazadan »

Quote from Ayiluss »

Quote from TheChucklingAtom »

It works fine for me. However, I am having issues if it asks to continue to mobile site. That part seems broken, so if you are trying to view on a mobile device that could be the issue.

I'm on computer. The site itself is working but the link to the deck lists isn't. I simply can't get there and it's been a whole day. I guess I'll just keep trying until it works.

For whatever reason the links to the deck database from this site sometimes don't work. Goto SCG's main page, click on decks, then click on Atlanta, it's the first link under their Modern category. That will bring them up.

This. I think a few weeks (months?) ago, we determined that the links posted here just don't come up on SCG's page. You actually have to go to SCG's page and find it there. It can be confusing since often people from here link it, not knowing that it is NOT going to work.

Regarding Storm, I agree that I don't believe that Jund is that poor a matchup. I find it to be 50/50 and often a Storm player that knows how to play it can make that higher than 50%, but I guess that goes without saying.

The 1 of Abzan Falconer is a must in Allies. If there was a Sorcery that said, 2W, all Allies you own gain flying until end of turn, it would be wonderful. This is evasion on a stick and kind of puts your opponent on a clock since they know you can draw this and go over them. It is akin to Galerider Sliver in Slivers in actual gameplay. It may even be correct to play at least 2 of these.

@TomCourtenay - I agree. I hope to see more Grishoalbrand, Bogles, Ad Nauseam, and Storm in the top 8 of these events. I also like to see Allies and Slivers. I'm tough to please...