So with walking balista and hangerback walker, can this now just fetch up 4 disciple of the vault and win that way?
You can, but it takes more slots so it's not all that great. Right now the combo has 7ish slots depending on how you build where as the disciple version takes at least 9 slots and you'll generally need 13 I'd say.
Thank you, I haven't looked into this deck too much but thought of it when I saw another 0 drop artifact creature again.
I agree with you, I don't think dark intimations is what we, or at least I, want. If it had a gain 2 drain 2, now we're talking...but it doesn't. I'm open to trying it, but don't think it is as good as just an ultimatum.
Edit: responding to communistmanatee at the top of this page, on phone and not sure how to quote on it lol
I've been on and off playing lantern for the better part of a year now and decided to take it to SCG MKE this weekend. I've only played it at FNM where I'm rather casual with the deck and don't rush people to play faster, because it's FNM.
My question is what or how is a good way at a larger event to know when and how to go about having your opponent pick up the pace? The only times I've drawn are when people sit with a tasigur or some other ability I haven't gotten to needle yet himming and hawing about activating it or not, but this is at FNM, not an open. Should I talk beforehand with a judge and inform them of what I'm playing and ask their opinion on what to do?
A new suggestion, for anyone who wishes to join me, I'm no longer going to respond to comments saying things like "Cryptic Command has anti-synergy with your control deck" and I am instead just going to focus on responding to people who might listen/provide some compelling argument's for their case/not just jump to assuming I'm stupid for not thinking their combo is amazing. I want nothing but to keep this thread friendly and polite, but there really isn't a good way of doing that and responding to some of the stuff that is being posted.
Saying "This card it Amazing!!! Everyone should play it, because every thinks it is good" isn't exactly a good argument either, in fact it is a textbook example of a logical fallacy associated with bad arguments.
And also, I never said that my combo was amazing, I wouldn't go around saying any card is amazing and I don't expect everyone to jump on the "Bandwagon" effect to play my combo.
It is true that cards like Snapcaster Mage and Cryptic Command can fit into any deck that plays blue and make it seemingly better, but you have to make your mana base to pump consistent blue. But again, my argument remains that Cruel Ultimatum as a card is designed to run primarily black and Cryptic Command mono-blue. You'll find no logical fallacies in this argument like "this card is awesome you should play because everyone plays it!" ... it just simply is this, that you are not really playing "Cruel Control" by playing a Cryptic Command based engine.
No one here has really given sufficient arguments except for pointing out that "Jeskai Control" has been ranking well lately, runs Cryptic Command and has too many answers against this archetype without also running it and a blue mana base for counterspells. That makes sense, but Cruel Ultimatum is still intended to be mostly black. That is why I have been saying things like "only unethical fights unethical" and every ones takes it personal when I am actually agreeing with the concept of fighting a deck by taking what is strong about it and throwing it back at it; but, while its unethical to play this card out of context, its probably justified. I never said not to do it.
I can't say I agree not having cryptic in a cruel list. I've been running one to 3-1 and 4-0 results (decklist I believe is a few pages back) you can make it blue based, you just need a greedy mana base, hope no main deck blood moon, and. Be prepared if there is.
What everyone really needs to ask themselves when it comes to the banned list is this one simple question; Could I live with this format if X card was "the bad guy?"
SFM is an easily killable creature that would end up, as other people have said, as a probable SB card to break the midrange mirrors. BBE is a 4 drop, don't we expect a 4 drop to have a huge impact on a game. Thoughtseize and leave a 4/4 body? (Oh that you can play on turn 2 or 3 easily as well). JTMS, the only argument I have about him is that his price would explode. A 4 drop that you tap out for in U that has no real presence in modern. Sure it may make a Tier 2 or tier 1 deck come from it, but youre tapping out to brainstorm, much worse than brainstorm itself AND it can be bolted in the most bolt-centric format. Planes walkers have generally been accepted that if they stick around for a few turns they will win you the game (ex. nahiri) so why is this one any different. Just because he was a monster in a standard meta that doesn't include all the answers modern would have.
Blue gets help through a white card? Well that seems good got UW and Jeskai, but as a grixis control player that does no help. Why does blue need a white card to play better? Unban of JTMS would push more linear, non-interactive strategies? Have you seen modern? All it's really is is non-interactive linear strategies...so what's it doing that would "change" the meta?
That is true, my decklist is on the bottom of the last page and I play no Ancestral or Serum Vision. It has been performing great with just think twice. the decklist may have changed slightly since my last post, but otherwise its still been going strong against merfolk, jund,a temur list, and just losing to a scapeshift at my last FNM.
Hey, I've gone back to my old cruel control list from last year and did some retinkering of it and feel like I've found a good list. Last two weeks of FNM have gone 3-1 where I've felt competitive in almost every game. Here's the list:
Recap of what I remember from this FNM:
1-2 Big Zoo
Game one took a huge hit when he discarded Loxodon Smiter to Kolaghan's Command
Managed to get game 2 and lost game 3 to ghor-clan rampager ability that I couldn't counter.
2-0 4 color bring to light
Managed to have shadow of doubt show up both games and was able to cast it at opportune times to not allow him to value from his gifts when he needed it.
2-0 Naya Burn
I don't know how, but managed to get there. Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet came down both games, first game around turn 9 or 10 and second game on turn 4.
Note: Second game opponent had to mull to 5 and kept a no-lander hoping to hit one.
2-0 Abzan Company
Last week I went 0-2 with this being my only loss, but last week I had Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet in the side and no Anger of the gods in the side.
Again, shadow of doubt came up huge in this match as I was able to draw into it both games and restrict his ability to go off.
First game had to play, chump a voice token with, and rebuy with kolaghan's commandgrave titan to chump a second voice token.
Second game was able to anger of the gods to wipe a voice and birds and was able to cast then Snap back Cruel Ultimatum
Overall I'm happy with the deck list, I feel like Think twice is where the draw wants to be so I can leave spell snare/pierce mana open turn 1 and be able to end of turn draw if they do nothing worthwhile turn 2.
@Sn3pp4 Your sideboard is very similar to my current one. I have hide//seek instead of wear//tear and Anger over Ajani. I firmy believe that you need additional combo/control hate in your sideboard if you are not running LotV. As in those matches the plan is usually to stick one and ride it to Victory. Torpor Orb has been insane since I started playing it. Great against Eldrazi, Company and twinless twin that is getting some traction in my area.
Spoiler wise I think Under the Floorboards is very good. The only issue is the Pyroclasm Syndrome we have. The card gives us bodies and health, it is very good at its normal cost and if we have a Lili is can be even greater value. Im a fan. Also works very nicely with Butcher which is a small plus.
What matchups typically would you bring Anger and Hide//Seek in for? I guess I don't understand only taking one copy of a card from their deck when they probably have 4 of their payoff card.
Thank you, I haven't looked into this deck too much but thought of it when I saw another 0 drop artifact creature again.
Edit: responding to communistmanatee at the top of this page, on phone and not sure how to quote on it lol
I've been on and off playing lantern for the better part of a year now and decided to take it to SCG MKE this weekend. I've only played it at FNM where I'm rather casual with the deck and don't rush people to play faster, because it's FNM.
My question is what or how is a good way at a larger event to know when and how to go about having your opponent pick up the pace? The only times I've drawn are when people sit with a tasigur or some other ability I haven't gotten to needle yet himming and hawing about activating it or not, but this is at FNM, not an open. Should I talk beforehand with a judge and inform them of what I'm playing and ask their opinion on what to do?
I can't say I agree not having cryptic in a cruel list. I've been running one to 3-1 and 4-0 results (decklist I believe is a few pages back) you can make it blue based, you just need a greedy mana base, hope no main deck blood moon, and. Be prepared if there is.
SFM is an easily killable creature that would end up, as other people have said, as a probable SB card to break the midrange mirrors. BBE is a 4 drop, don't we expect a 4 drop to have a huge impact on a game. Thoughtseize and leave a 4/4 body? (Oh that you can play on turn 2 or 3 easily as well). JTMS, the only argument I have about him is that his price would explode. A 4 drop that you tap out for in U that has no real presence in modern. Sure it may make a Tier 2 or tier 1 deck come from it, but youre tapping out to brainstorm, much worse than brainstorm itself AND it can be bolted in the most bolt-centric format. Planes walkers have generally been accepted that if they stick around for a few turns they will win you the game (ex. nahiri) so why is this one any different. Just because he was a monster in a standard meta that doesn't include all the answers modern would have.
1 Grave Titan
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
Spells:
2 Cruel Ultimatum
3 Cryptic Command
2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Logic Knot
4 Remand
1 Shadow of Doubt
1 Spell Pierce
3 Spell Snare
3 Terminate
4 Think Twice
1 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Darkslick Shores
3 Island
4 Polluted Delta
2 Steam Vents
2 Sulfur Falls
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
1 Bribery
2 Dispel
2 Dreadbore
2 Fulminator Mage
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Negate
1 Rakdos Charm
1 Surgical Extraction
Obviously, I wish the Bloodstained Mires were Scalding Tarn, but I do not own any
Recap of what I remember from this FNM:
1-2 Big Zoo
Game one took a huge hit when he discarded Loxodon Smiter to Kolaghan's Command
Managed to get game 2 and lost game 3 to ghor-clan rampager ability that I couldn't counter.
2-0 4 color bring to light
Managed to have shadow of doubt show up both games and was able to cast it at opportune times to not allow him to value from his gifts when he needed it.
2-0 Naya Burn
I don't know how, but managed to get there. Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet came down both games, first game around turn 9 or 10 and second game on turn 4.
Note: Second game opponent had to mull to 5 and kept a no-lander hoping to hit one.
2-0 Abzan Company
Last week I went 0-2 with this being my only loss, but last week I had Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet in the side and no Anger of the gods in the side.
Again, shadow of doubt came up huge in this match as I was able to draw into it both games and restrict his ability to go off.
First game had to play, chump a voice token with, and rebuy with kolaghan's command grave titan to chump a second voice token.
Second game was able to anger of the gods to wipe a voice and birds and was able to cast then Snap back Cruel Ultimatum
Overall I'm happy with the deck list, I feel like Think twice is where the draw wants to be so I can leave spell snare/pierce mana open turn 1 and be able to end of turn draw if they do nothing worthwhile turn 2.
Please let me know what you think of the list
What matchups typically would you bring Anger and Hide//Seek in for? I guess I don't understand only taking one copy of a card from their deck when they probably have 4 of their payoff card.
4 Dark Confidant
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Monastery Mentor
4 Young Pyromancer
Planeswalkers 2
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
Spells 24
1 Crackling Doom
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Lightning Helix
4 Lingering Souls
4 Path to Exile
2 Terminate
2 Thoughtseize
4 Arid Mesa
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Godless Shrine
1 Lavaclaw Reaches
1 Mountain
2 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
3 Shambling Vent
2 Swamp
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Ajani Vengeant
2 Crackling Doom
3 Fulminator Mage
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Torpor Orb
2 Wear // Tear
1 Wrath of God
Any further thoughts are appreciated.