Agreed, I own a few of them myself. I'm also fond of FN Herstal. Those are two makes of weapons that I very rarely see come into my shop for repairs, and when I do, it's usually because of user error.
I'd be tempted to omit Humility and make big efficient vanilla or quasi-vanilla creatures my wincon. Bonus points if you run Muraganda Petroglyphs.
Progenitus seems like a good commander, or better yet ask your playgroup for permission to use Fusion Elemental. Oooh, better idea: Tutoring out Torpor Orb straight away when your commander is Lord of Tresserhorn seems hilarious if you can stomach losing access to white.
EDIT: Oh, and it doesn't fit in Lord of Tresserhorn, but Titania's Song is powerful, hilarious, and exactly what you want.
humility was a really good call, and I'd hate to not run it cause it shuts off pretty much everything on creature. I think it's too good not to run.
Petroglyphs+Humilty+Meekstone seems like good times and exactly what the deck wants to do.
Titania's song is exactly the kind of stuff I'm looking for.
Unfortunatly, I think it would be the best time to buy them since khans will rotate out and the price will surely go up (from the point a view from other format / collector). Your deck will be better with them, but you still have evolving wilds. If you are only playing FNM, you can pass it.
I'm going to disagree. I would wait to buy until the khans fetches rotate out of standard. The price of fetch lands won't go up when they rotate out of standard, it'll go down. Right now, most standard decks are running 10-12 fetch lands, so there is literally 10's of thousands of fetches in standard decks. When they rotate out, many standard players will trade/sell their fetches, resulting in a huge influx of fetch lands on the secondary market. This will have two effects. First there will be an increased supply of them on the secondary market, thereby reducing cost. Second, there will be a reduced demand as standard player will no longer be buying them up, also reducing cost. While almost all the fetches are eternal staples (so they will never be cheap) the market cannot have an increased supply and reduced demand without the price dropping by some ammount. I would expect the blue fetches to drop by maybe $5, and the non-blue fetches to drop by $5-10 once they rotate out of standard. That's just economics 101.
While I think your logic is very sound about the economics, i still doubt it will happen that way.If any went down to a $5 price i would be absolutely shocked, and it would probably only happen to windswept heath because of the reprinting in the clash pack. Either way fetchlands are arguably the best "dual lands" ever printed outside of the original duals, so i would have a hard time believing that they would drop in price below the shocklands, which are currently double your prediction. As far as having a huge supply once they rotate in standard only effects the price if those standard players want to sell them off. And given the evidence from the past, the zendikar fetches not only went up in price after rotation, they are currently the most expensive duals on the market besides the originals. I dont see anyone trying to dump the khans fetches after rotation unless they either need the money or are uninformed about the past. If it was any other type of card i would agree with your assessment. But they are again arguably the second best set of dual lands ever printed and are used in every format. They will only go up in price and i would advise getting as many as possible before that happens
I never said the fetches would drop to a $5 price mark. I said I would expect the price to be $5-10 less than it is currently when they rotate out, at least for a time. Admittedly, the enemy fetches have gone up in value, but that's been a long term trend. When they first rotated out, there was a dip in their prices. Even among the enemy fetches, not all of them command Scalding Tarn prices, it's also dependent on being in a top deck. That's why a marsh flats is roughly half the price of a Tarn. Not to mention that the ones that are rotating are on their 2nd printing(third if you count the expeditions) I know numerous 'Standard only' players who plan to trade/sell their fetches closer to rotation, so I expect there will be plenty of players across the globe who will dump their fetches to fuel their next standard deck.
What I need...
1 - more of the "turn things vanilla" effects
2 - What commander to use (either something that directly supports the deck, or something 5 color)
3 - win-cons that function through all the shut down effects
4 - some way to turn off planeswalkers
5 - quality creatures that don't rely on ETB effects or activated abilities (in particular creatures with good triggered abilities or state based effects)
I bought a bunch of work mats in bulk and set a couple of my favorites aside to keep them clean and free of dirt, grime, oil, metal shavings, carbon fouling, powder residue etc...to use for MTG. Best part is that they cost about half what most play mats go for, and I'm the only one around that has anything like them.
I see this a fair bit too, but most of the time I see it happen it's because the player isn't really paying attention to what's going on in the game beyond the turn they are on right now. I think it's a lack of foresight, or an inability to plan beyond the current moment. They don't even contemplate possible actions until it's actually time to take action. I think many players could speed up their game if they learned the finer points of playing chess, and starting thinking several moves/turns ahead.
Unfortunatly, I think it would be the best time to buy them since khans will rotate out and the price will surely go up (from the point a view from other format / collector). Your deck will be better with them, but you still have evolving wilds. If you are only playing FNM, you can pass it.
I'm going to disagree. I would wait to buy until the khans fetches rotate out of standard. The price of fetch lands won't go up when they rotate out of standard, it'll go down. Right now, most standard decks are running 10-12 fetch lands, so there is literally 10's of thousands of fetches in standard decks. When they rotate out, many standard players will trade/sell their fetches, resulting in a huge influx of fetch lands on the secondary market. This will have two effects. First there will be an increased supply of them on the secondary market, thereby reducing cost. Second, there will be a reduced demand as standard player will no longer be buying them up, also reducing cost. While almost all the fetches are eternal staples (so they will never be cheap) the market cannot have an increased supply and reduced demand without the price dropping by some ammount. I would expect the blue fetches to drop by maybe $5, and the non-blue fetches to drop by $5-10 once they rotate out of standard. That's just economics 101.
ghost council of orzhova...Black/white is, in my opinion, the best colors for the Aristocrat archetype and Ghost Dad does most everything you want. Sac's creatures, bleeds opponents, dodges removal. He's just really good for what you want to do, and he's dirt cheap to get.
black and white also have the best reanimation/recursion affects which I've found is really important in this type of deck.
just be aware that graveyard hate can really wreck your day, so giving yourself hexproof can be really important as most mass grave hate targets the player.
+1 for arcum dagsson and if you are running metal worker, combo it with voltaic construct for infinite mana. A litte bit of milling, then prosperity for the win
Malevolent Awakening is a card I liked but forgot about. This might be a good option. I'd like to pick up another Volrath's Stronghold but I can't afford to buy another one and it's very hard to trade for! I had one on my want list over on Pucatrades for like two months before someone finally sent one to me. I was thinking about Lifeline but doesn't that kind of negate all of my removal? I have all of the "cares about dying" stuff you suggested in my deck, except Deathrender because I don't have that many huge creatures to make it worth a slot.
stronghold's certainly aren't cheap, I can understand that.
Don't underestimate deathrender. Getting creatures into play for free at instant speed is very very good, even with small creatures. free is free after all.
since you are sacrificing lots of things, consider running a bitter ordeal to help deal with non-permanent threats before they can even be cast.
Agreed, I own a few of them myself. I'm also fond of FN Herstal. Those are two makes of weapons that I very rarely see come into my shop for repairs, and when I do, it's usually because of user error.
humility was a really good call, and I'd hate to not run it cause it shuts off pretty much everything on creature. I think it's too good not to run.
Petroglyphs+Humilty+Meekstone seems like good times and exactly what the deck wants to do.
Titania's song is exactly the kind of stuff I'm looking for.
thank you, good ideas
I never said the fetches would drop to a $5 price mark. I said I would expect the price to be $5-10 less than it is currently when they rotate out, at least for a time. Admittedly, the enemy fetches have gone up in value, but that's been a long term trend. When they first rotated out, there was a dip in their prices. Even among the enemy fetches, not all of them command Scalding Tarn prices, it's also dependent on being in a top deck. That's why a marsh flats is roughly half the price of a Tarn. Not to mention that the ones that are rotating are on their 2nd printing(third if you count the expeditions) I know numerous 'Standard only' players who plan to trade/sell their fetches closer to rotation, so I expect there will be plenty of players across the globe who will dump their fetches to fuel their next standard deck.
torpor orb
damping matrix
meekstone
tsabo's web
pithing needle
nevermore
phyrexian revoker
magus of the moon
blood moon
leyline of the void
rest in peace
ensnaring bridge
aethersnap
sudden spoiling
stranglehold
mindlock orb
fatespinner
grand abolisher
containment priest
spirit of the labyrinth
teferi, mage of zhalfir
everlasting torment
ground seal
A decent start, but still need some help.
What I need...
1 - more of the "turn things vanilla" effects
2 - What commander to use (either something that directly supports the deck, or something 5 color)
3 - win-cons that function through all the shut down effects
4 - some way to turn off planeswalkers
5 - quality creatures that don't rely on ETB effects or activated abilities (in particular creatures with good triggered abilities or state based effects)
happy brewing!
I'm going to disagree. I would wait to buy until the khans fetches rotate out of standard. The price of fetch lands won't go up when they rotate out of standard, it'll go down. Right now, most standard decks are running 10-12 fetch lands, so there is literally 10's of thousands of fetches in standard decks. When they rotate out, many standard players will trade/sell their fetches, resulting in a huge influx of fetch lands on the secondary market. This will have two effects. First there will be an increased supply of them on the secondary market, thereby reducing cost. Second, there will be a reduced demand as standard player will no longer be buying them up, also reducing cost. While almost all the fetches are eternal staples (so they will never be cheap) the market cannot have an increased supply and reduced demand without the price dropping by some ammount. I would expect the blue fetches to drop by maybe $5, and the non-blue fetches to drop by $5-10 once they rotate out of standard. That's just economics 101.
black and white also have the best reanimation/recursion affects which I've found is really important in this type of deck.
some of the all stars of my Ghost Dad deck...
karmic guide and Reveillark create an infinite combo and with a blood artist out kills everyone at the table.
deathrender - you're going sac a lot of creatures, and the 'render gets stuff into play for free.
oversold cemetery - non-creature based recursion is pretty important if you're running lots of board wipes...and you should be running lots of board wipes, especially with ghost council
volrath's stronghold - same as above
mass removal...I run almost a dozen board wipes, wrath of god, damnation, austere command, decree of pain etc...
rally the ancestors - mass reanimation much?
cards that trigger off of life gain, archangel of thune, sanguine bond, and well of lost dreams have been my favorites
just be aware that graveyard hate can really wreck your day, so giving yourself hexproof can be really important as most mass grave hate targets the player.
stronghold's certainly aren't cheap, I can understand that.
I like to combine lifeline with graveyard hate like withered wretch, scavenging ooze, necrogenesis, or night soil becuase it doesn't return the card to play untill end of turn. lifeline also works great with leyline of the void if you happen to already have one.
Don't underestimate deathrender. Getting creatures into play for free at instant speed is very very good, even with small creatures. free is free after all.
since you are sacrificing lots of things, consider running a bitter ordeal to help deal with non-permanent threats before they can even be cast.
attrition
thoughtpicker witch - really good against the mystical/enlightend/worldly/vampiric tutors or any topdeck manipulation
plagued rusalka
phyrexian vault - fits both the sac and draw requirements
perilous forays
malevolent awakening - sac for recursion is good
helm of possession - sac something to steal something, sac what you stole, and do it all again
gutless ghoul
culling dais
also consider cards that do stuff when you sac creatures like...
blood artist and its various iterations
golgari germination to make more sac fodder
Fecundity to draw tons of cards
black market for huge mana
deathrender to get big stuff into play for free
harvester of souls to draw more
good recursion engines are a must have too...
oversold cemetery
volrath's stronghold
Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker
lifeline