But... you are ignoring the very basic fact about this whole situation. No deck in the history of modern has ever had a 45% share of MTGO, and a 25% share of the overall meta is also an extremely rare occurrence, the only decks that have gotten to that point have been banned.
So why is Eldrazi different than every other break out deck that has ever existed in modern? Why is Eldrazi not an issue when Deathrite Shaman Jund, Treasure Cruise Delver, and Pod were legitimate format issues and these decks never reached even close to the metagame shares that the Eldrazi deck has.(Or the absolutely outrageous PT performance this deck put up which by the way, was one of the absolute best ever in the history of MTG) Why is the complete and utter lack of blue in the format ok? You can't just say "Well they had their time in the sun" when the deck has so far completely invalidated an entire color from the metagame.
I am so confused about why people think this is a fine state for modern to be in and say "It will adapt". We won't because we can't, the tools are not available to us to fight two ancient tombs. The fact that Tron was a great deck before this should be proof enough that modern can't deal with lands efficiently.
It has the same issue as all decks you mentioned. Its meta share is so high that something will have to go. If we could speculate whether it was just a Pro Tour or more then that I think it's clear now that Eldrazi doesn't belong to Modern (not in this form). Ancient Tombs are too much, we simply don't have the right (good enough) tools to beat it or to make reasonable chances against it.
Yea that was what I was trying to say, I just screwed up and forgot to quote one of the people above that was arguing that the data has gotten better for the health of the modern metagame. Or that the decks metagame share is so high because "Its a new exciting deck" sure it is, but no other new and exciting deck has every commanded such a dominating position in the metagame. It is unprecedented in the history of the format. Decks have been banned for much less than what the Eldrazi deck has done to modern so far, if things hold steady, or hell even decline to half as dominating as the deck currently is, decks have been banned for having less than half the metagame share in modern that Eldrazi currently have.
But... you are ignoring the very basic fact about this whole situation. No deck in the history of modern has ever had a 45% share of MTGO, and a 25% share of the overall meta is also an extremely rare occurrence, the only decks that have gotten to that point have been banned.
So why is Eldrazi different than every other break out deck that has ever existed in modern? Why is Eldrazi not an issue when Deathrite Shaman Jund, Treasure Cruise Delver, and Pod were legitimate format issues and these decks never reached even close to the metagame shares that the Eldrazi deck has.(Or the absolutely outrageous PT performance this deck put up which by the way, was one of the absolute best ever in the history of MTG) Why is the complete and utter lack of blue in the format ok? You can't just say "Well they had their time in the sun" when the deck has so far completely invalidated an entire color from the metagame.
I am so confused about why people think this is a fine state for modern to be in and say "It will adapt". We won't because we can't, the tools are not available to us to fight two ancient tombs. The fact that Tron was a great deck before this should be proof enough that modern can't deal with lands efficiently.
Edit: I meant to quote protoaddicts latest reply, kinda screwed that up haha
After testing Jeskai Geist against the Eldrazi decks extensively I finally got the matchup to feel not terrible. But that was only after upping my land count to 25 to add in a second ghost quarter in the main, main decking two spreading seas, having two more in the side along with another ghost quarter, also adding in a dismember to the main board, and a journey to nowhere to the side so that I can actually kill their guys efficiently (Journey is nice to get around the discard on reality smasher)
I mean sure after all that I got the matchup to be 50/50, but my deck is almost assuredly worse against the field because of these changes. But Eldrazi is currently 44% of the metagame online I can't exactly ignore the deck. I don't know if the deck is an unbeatable menace, at the end of the day its just a creature deck, but sometimes hyper efficient creature decks can be too good. I at least want to see what the next SCG open looks like, that should give us some good data on the best ways to fight the deck.
So I was thinking of adding in Fiend Hunter and Blasting station to the deck to add in an infinite combo with Sun Titan, which could be fun. I am going to test it out as just one-ofs for both with a blasting station replacing a mortarpod and fiend hunter right now is taking the place of a mana leak in th emain board.
Does this seem like a good idea to take the deck, I mean just adding one-ofs doesn't really affect the mainboard to much and it isn't like these are unplayable cards in the first place. I'll be testing it next week, so hopefully this turns out to be a good change.
So thoughts on this deck, it is different than some of the decks floating around on here but we have some lists that are close. Going with no paths in the 75 seems... bold but it is a very pure take on the deck.
I like using Commune in some other decks I have on turn 2 to pull a Hooting Mandrills. Love me a 4/4 Trample on turn two if it works out right.
Hooting mandrills seems like a really bad Nonbo with KoTR, what with exiling your graveyard, especially because most decks have very low spell density so you are almost forced to exile lands to get a fast Mandrills.
So i've played the deck some more and i think i would like to stay away from the little kid variant and don't want to play red. So i'm thinking about a value version with restoration angel, eternal witness and a few more value creature. Anyone tried something like that, is it any good?
Also i'd love to play vendilion clique. The card seems amazing at clearing the coast for the combo and catching problem cards, and they would beat real well with exalted triggers. The problem is double blue cost, it seems like a real stretch for this deck's mana base so it probably is an impossible love...
I have tested a Flicker based version of the deck on cockatrice, the decklist is here. I have moved away from it though because it just performed worse in testing than the tempo version that I listed above. It just felt slow and clunky a fair amount of the time, though the sea of 3/3 golems was nice when the deck got going. Obviously there are better version of a flicker variant but I dont see it as the best direction to take the deck.
It should be Serum Visions but I have Sleight of hand already so I was going to use that as a stopgap until I get around to buying Serum Visions. Bad reason I know, but I do think SoH is almost as good in certain situations, just not in that deck.
So far this is the deck that I have been testing on Cockatrice lately and it has been putting up good results for me. I wanted to test out a 4 color "Counter Cat" Style of deck just to see how well the combo could work in a more tempo oriented strategy, since that is my preferred way to play. While I know that Cockatrice is not the epitome of competition the deck has felt very powerful, especially If I am able to curve Nactl into Pyromancer. Both are must answer threats that draw removal away from KoTR, they also punish stumbling from my opponent very effectively, since if I eve manage to stick both with counterspell back up the game is pretty quickly over.
The combo may seem a little out of place in the deck but the ability to just win on turn 4+ adds another dimension to the strategy besides just beating down then going for the bolt-snap-bolt finish. Overall I've been impressed with the deck and am waiting until I can test it out at FNM, since an IQ is coming up in the area soon that I want to take this deck to.
Yea that was what I was trying to say, I just screwed up and forgot to quote one of the people above that was arguing that the data has gotten better for the health of the modern metagame. Or that the decks metagame share is so high because "Its a new exciting deck" sure it is, but no other new and exciting deck has every commanded such a dominating position in the metagame. It is unprecedented in the history of the format. Decks have been banned for much less than what the Eldrazi deck has done to modern so far, if things hold steady, or hell even decline to half as dominating as the deck currently is, decks have been banned for having less than half the metagame share in modern that Eldrazi currently have.
So why is Eldrazi different than every other break out deck that has ever existed in modern? Why is Eldrazi not an issue when Deathrite Shaman Jund, Treasure Cruise Delver, and Pod were legitimate format issues and these decks never reached even close to the metagame shares that the Eldrazi deck has.(Or the absolutely outrageous PT performance this deck put up which by the way, was one of the absolute best ever in the history of MTG) Why is the complete and utter lack of blue in the format ok? You can't just say "Well they had their time in the sun" when the deck has so far completely invalidated an entire color from the metagame.
I am so confused about why people think this is a fine state for modern to be in and say "It will adapt". We won't because we can't, the tools are not available to us to fight two ancient tombs. The fact that Tron was a great deck before this should be proof enough that modern can't deal with lands efficiently.
Edit: I meant to quote protoaddicts latest reply, kinda screwed that up haha
I mean sure after all that I got the matchup to be 50/50, but my deck is almost assuredly worse against the field because of these changes. But Eldrazi is currently 44% of the metagame online I can't exactly ignore the deck. I don't know if the deck is an unbeatable menace, at the end of the day its just a creature deck, but sometimes hyper efficient creature decks can be too good. I at least want to see what the next SCG open looks like, that should give us some good data on the best ways to fight the deck.
Does this seem like a good idea to take the deck, I mean just adding one-ofs doesn't really affect the mainboard to much and it isn't like these are unplayable cards in the first place. I'll be testing it next week, so hopefully this turns out to be a good change.
So thoughts on this deck, it is different than some of the decks floating around on here but we have some lists that are close. Going with no paths in the 75 seems... bold but it is a very pure take on the deck.
Hooting mandrills seems like a really bad Nonbo with KoTR, what with exiling your graveyard, especially because most decks have very low spell density so you are almost forced to exile lands to get a fast Mandrills.
I have tested a Flicker based version of the deck on cockatrice, the decklist is here. I have moved away from it though because it just performed worse in testing than the tempo version that I listed above. It just felt slow and clunky a fair amount of the time, though the sea of 3/3 golems was nice when the deck got going. Obviously there are better version of a flicker variant but I dont see it as the best direction to take the deck.
It should be Serum Visions but I have Sleight of hand already so I was going to use that as a stopgap until I get around to buying Serum Visions. Bad reason I know, but I do think SoH is almost as good in certain situations, just not in that deck.
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Wild Nacatl
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Knight of the Reliquary
Spells 23
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
3 Retreat to Coralhelm
2 Lightning Helix
2 Remand
2 Mana Leak
2 Gitaxian Probe
2 Sleight of Hand
1 Spell Snare
1 Simic Charm
4 Flooded Strand
1 Breeding Pool
1 Forest
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Steam Vents
1 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Island
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
3 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Celestial Purge
1 Negate
2 Dispel
2 Stony Silence
1 Crumble to Dust
1 Mirran Crusader
1 Sanctimony
1 Vendillion Clique
So far this is the deck that I have been testing on Cockatrice lately and it has been putting up good results for me. I wanted to test out a 4 color "Counter Cat" Style of deck just to see how well the combo could work in a more tempo oriented strategy, since that is my preferred way to play. While I know that Cockatrice is not the epitome of competition the deck has felt very powerful, especially If I am able to curve Nactl into Pyromancer. Both are must answer threats that draw removal away from KoTR, they also punish stumbling from my opponent very effectively, since if I eve manage to stick both with counterspell back up the game is pretty quickly over.
The combo may seem a little out of place in the deck but the ability to just win on turn 4+ adds another dimension to the strategy besides just beating down then going for the bolt-snap-bolt finish. Overall I've been impressed with the deck and am waiting until I can test it out at FNM, since an IQ is coming up in the area soon that I want to take this deck to.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/knight-combo-1/
I think that maybe replacing a dismember or both with Chord for consistency might be a better approach but I am not sure, its a tough call.