If you're boarding for land decks then price of progress is the way to go since it will kill your opponent and in the case that you have more than one you can actually get use out of both. Tsabo's Web will more or less just stall the game for a couple turns especially against the mindslaver land decks that will just transmute to engineered explosives on the next turn. As far as blood moon, it's a great card against any deck that doesn't run red or runs only nonbasic lands but it's not worth the loss of two colors in your own deck.
Wow, good point! And I'm the one who keeps complaining about the reanimator matchup and never realized how you could play 4 more cards than I can because you run ape!
Bassman, I do understand why you don't like steppe lynx mostly because the use of kird ape and loam lion give consistency and blockers. However, steppe lynx with 11 or 12 fetch lands (taking out horizon canopy) can become an attacking goyf. I've had games where steppe lynx was attacking as a 4/5 on turns 2, 3, and 4. But of course, that's at the price of consistency and the loss of a blocker. If I was going to choose something other than steppe lynx it would be loam lion because the white in the mana base is more than the red (3x plateau, 2x horizon canopy, 1x savannah, 1x plains vs. 3x plateau, 2x taiga, 1x mountain) in the case that you don't have a fetch land in opening hand. But both kird ape and loam lion are basically the same creature.
Thanks Bassman! I have kird ape and the horizon canopys but for now I will run steppe lynx with my 11 fetchs just to test how it plays when I put chain lightning back in my deck for the Nth time! I suppose you are right about chain lightning, I took it out because although it does pump goyf more I hated that it was a sorcery and could back fire against other red decks. But I miss the extra burn to clear the path for my minions to hit to the face or to stall that NO one more turn! I will however take your suggestion of the 3x grim lavamancer, I have never been comfortable with 4 but I could never find the right number and it seemed like all the zoo decks that did well ran 4. I also have the figure already but I have been debating putting it in but I can see its use. The most interesting cards in the board are the before discussed runed halo which is awesome but I had never thought about running harsh justice which has some interesting applications against reanimater and ct progenitus.
At least both of you guys did pretty well, I'm getting ready for the Philadelphia 5k and probably the Boston and Baltimore as well.
Good Job Bassman! Our lists are very similiar only a couple differences.
-2x horizon canopy
+2x windswept heath
-4x kird ape
+4x steppe lynx
-1x figure of destiny
+1x grim lavamancer
-1x umezawa's jitte
-3x chain lightning
+2x fireblast
+2x lightning helix
which brings me to my questions for you! Why do you prefer running 2x horizon canopy instead of 11 fetch lands? I have be switching back and forth between the two horizon canopys and 11 fetch lands. Do you run chain lightning without worrying about when you play other red decks or do you board them out against red decks in fear of them bouncing it to your creatures?
I agree with Bassman. Although runed halo stops you from taking damage, the creature is still on the board which slows your damage down. Also, it would just be a matter of time till CT Progenitus top decks a qasali pridemage and then there goes your runed halo. Whereas tariff can remove the creature and allow for damage to their face. The issues for tariff is it can be countered and reanimator can choose white with Iona. That being said, I would run tariff over runed halo. What do you guys think about wing shards, ensnaring bridge, meekstone, or Retribution of the Meek to solve this problem?
Yes Bassman, you are correct. In my opinion you have to choose to either stop the NO with gaddock teeg and boarding in runed halo or tariff or stop counterbalance and counter spells by boarding in red elemental blast and pyroblast but not both without fundamentally changing the deck. I was just trying to say that I prefer using gaddock teeg and burn to stop NO and take my chances with counter spells. I'm actually more worried about reanimator than CT Progenitus because even if you use tormod's crypt or relic of progenitus or even leyline of the void for crazy zoo players, they can just use chain of vapor, engineered explosives, wipe away, and echoing truth and we in response sac and remove no creatures from their graveyard. Although the use of tariff can stop progenitus as well as any creature from reanimator (except Iona if they choose white) so thanks bassman for that suggestion I will go test that now
Rhox War Monk and Tarmogoyf are both cards that would need more than one burn spell to take down. In my experience, I have been able to double burn one either with a combination of lightning bolt with either lightning helix or chain lightning or grim lavamancer's ability depending on what you run. Or you can just straight up path to exile the creature. If they exactly resolve Progenitus you have to fall back onto your burn spells and hopefully you have a grim lavamancer on the board to help you out. I have found that running steppe lynx allows you to do damage even faster than usual which is why I run him over kird ape or loam lion. Also, I do run 2x knight of the reliquary along side of my 2x gaddock teeg so I do have a bid beater in the MD in case I just can't clear the board or need that big creature to take out one of their big creatures. If you are really worried about Progenitus you can board runed halo for a low mana cost save. If you wanted to bring in Price of Progress you might win game 2 but then they will just fetch basic lands and you'll end up losing game 3 so I would not advise boarding in price of progress but of course keep it in the board for land decks which we are terrible against.
In my testing against CT Progenitus you basically need to either stop them from playing NO or leave them with nothing to sac for NO. This is why I run 2x gaddock teeg in the MD with a third in the board and I run Path to Exile, burn, and grim lavamancer to remove green creatures so that there is nothing to sac for NO. It forces them to swords/path your gaddock teeg which allows you to slip in damage and stalls them some turns. Also burning their creatures stalls them unless they have 5 or more lands but by that time you should have done 20 damage. Also board krosan grip, red elemental blast, and pyroblast for counter spells and counterbalance. The price of progress in my board is more for land decks and not for CT Progenitus.
At least both of you guys did pretty well, I'm getting ready for the Philadelphia 5k and probably the Boston and Baltimore as well.
-2x horizon canopy
+2x windswept heath
-4x kird ape
+4x steppe lynx
-1x figure of destiny
+1x grim lavamancer
-1x umezawa's jitte
-3x chain lightning
+2x fireblast
+2x lightning helix
which brings me to my questions for you! Why do you prefer running 2x horizon canopy instead of 11 fetch lands? I have be switching back and forth between the two horizon canopys and 11 fetch lands. Do you run chain lightning without worrying about when you play other red decks or do you board them out against red decks in fear of them bouncing it to your creatures?