MTG Salvation

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On the topic of of whether Creeping Chill was on Wizard's radar, Paul Cheon said on stream (R&D plays Magic on the main MTG Twitch) that they knew/were aware of Chill's modern playability, and they guessed that Arclight Phoenix had potential, with it being spell-based. This was after they were asked about wariness of Modern playables for GRN. This suggests that there was probably minimal testing, but at very least it was known that the aforementioned cards could/would see play, if not to the degree they currently are.

If we are getting back into the unban Twin talks, then I will repeat a slightly altered version of what I said two years ago; If Twin is released back into the format, then yes, if you want to play a U/R deck then it is certainly the best option and may suppress of URx decks. However, if one looks at the current metagame, the only truly competitive decks in the colours are Storm, which is a separate archetype and will never use twin, and Death's Shadow which is more of a black deck that utilises blue's card selection and Stubborn Denial.

Izzet phoenix, and blue moon are the only two current decks that play even vaguely similarly to twin, but they are realistically not viable. Blue moon is merely a remnant, and phoenix a slow, semi-linear deck in a metagame of faster, more linear decks that are harder to interact with.

To reiterate idSurge's statement, the archetype of UR Tempo and control is dead, and has been since January 18, 2016. Furthermore, while I hate the use of the phrase 'format police,' that is exactly what twin would do in a meta of linearity and the ever-imposing threat of dredge.

This is all I could find in regards to the legality:

Magic Tournament Rules 2.11, Taking Notes:
'Players are allowed to take written notes during a match and may refer to those notes while that match is in progress. At the beginning of a match, each player’s note sheet must be empty and must remain visible throughout the match. Players do not have to explain or reveal notes to other players. Judges may ask to see a player’s notes and/or request that the player explain his or her notes.
Players may not refer to other notes, including notes from previous matches, during games.'

Also, 'Artistic modifications to cards that indirectly provide minor strategic information are acceptable. The Head Judge is the final arbiter on what cards and notes are acceptable for a tournament.'

However, the mat hardly contains any strategic information, as the different steps of the turn are something that is just an integral part of the game. Everybody knows the steps and phases. Giving you a penalty for the incredibly minor strategic information featured on the mat shouldn't ever happen.
In regards to the suing, I'm no lawyer, but as long as it isn't for commercial use, you should be fine. I have seen many players with custom mats featuring MTG artwork, and of course no legal action was taken against them.

Your opponent remembered his triggers, and was keeping track of energy counters, so I think you're at fault for failing to notice them.

I'd say that the Reckless Cohort is worded as it is to prevent confusion due to additional combat phases and the removal of allies before and after them.

Quote from Ayiluss »

It's certainly true that Twin was very big and the main reason that Affinity played Galvanic Blast (it was the only piece of interaction against their combo in game 1). It wasn't the only reason though. It steel sees play in Affinity but not as much as it did when Twin was still legal.

Just to note, some Affinity decks played mainboard spellskite partly for twin back in the day.

Quote from Crimson »

I'd try Kitchen Finks but I'm playing a UW list.

Us Jeskai control players have better ways of dealing damage and gaining life than kitchen finks. For probably not the best example, Lightning helix.

Quote from gkourou »

Twin committed the terrible crime of obliterating all non-twin control decks.

If you played UR control you would just go twin. This is ok.
Grixis Control? Let's go Grixis Twin.
Temur? Let's go Temur Twin. No need for Temur aggro.
Jeskai Control? Let's go Jeskai Twin.

I made the same thing. Because I got tired from losing to Tron and not being able to cope with the crazy diersity. I know a lot of people that did the same thing.

This is kind of sad for Control decks.

I completely agree with this statement. Pre Twin Ban, I went to my LGS testing a proxied Jeskai Control list and a Jeskai Delver list. Everyone immediately asked why I wasn't playing Twin. I tried to argue, but then I realised that it would just take changing 8 slots in my deck and it would be instantly better. That was the main problem with twin. If you were playing the colours for twin, twin was a better deck.

Quote from Warangel88 »

Have patience. You will see the cultist army soon. The vampires are just twisted and went into a blood frenzy. I have dreamed all of this and it will come true.

Do you know how weird that last sentence sounded?

People have the right to be disappointed, but I can't help myself and think they're whiny children.
What is it with Counterspell seriously ? They don't have the gift they order Santa Claus, so they sulk and let everyone know on the internet ? Is it really the one card that defines whether this set is good or not ? Aren't the 4 counter spells revealed enough yet ?
Why can't those people enjoy the good stuff and deal with it ? One can enjoy :
1- what's gonna be the limited environment of MH1,
2- some playable niche cards for tier 3 decks,
3- some flashy cards for tier 1-2 decks,
4- the flavour of many cards (text, call back),
5- the Commander extra support,
6- the Pauper extra support.

There's already nearly 30 cards that are gonna see play in Modern, THIRTY. Are those people blind and only see what's good for the only one archetype they play ? Legacy staples and strong role players (Counterspell is one) will not be in MH1. Get. Over. It.
MH1 is not only there to fix the MUs we're not comfortable with, it's not only there to shut Phoenix, Humans or Tron down. It's also there to make a playable limited format, push bad and average decks, cautiously reprint old cards, and (re)test the water of many mechanics. This set is not a BR announcement, this set is not the merger with Legacy.

It's not healthy to read these forums when mindsets are targetted at one specific wish (the BR Announcement is sometimes as painful to read because of that). This set has already me convinced it's going to shift the Modern metagame. What bothers me most is people who complain this is a Commander set, how wrong they are imo.

Quote from Fyrwulf »

R&D is just run by filthy casuals who regard the height of Magic as turning creatures sideways after drafting them. Constructed decks where instants and sorceries are king are the devil in their world, because being told no and going from 20 to 0 in a turn isn't "fair". But what else can you expect from mouth-breathing knuckle draggers?

We get, after 75 cards spoiled, 4 new counterspells to Modern (one specifically to stop creatures), Fact or Fiction, Cabal Therapist, Urza, Crypt Rats (which stops creatures), Aria of Flame, Planebound Accomplice, Spore Frog (which stops combat damage), Collected Conjuring, Altar of Dementia, Mox Tantalite. These are not cards that promote turning creatures sideways. These are not cards that say R&D is afraid of permission based Magic. But because we aren't getting counterspell, Wizards are quite literally the devil and should be shunned forever...

Yes, they didn't give us Counterspell and I am disappointed in that as well. I don't feel it is too powerful for the format but the omission from this set doesn't say anything other than they decided to give us others first. As much as we are "sure" that Counterspell will not break anything, it isn't like Blue is in this terrible position where only Counterspell can make it great again.

Your indictment of their decision making process is incredibly tone deaf considering what we have gotten recently, both in this set and previous sets, when it comes to Blue permission based decks. Teferi is not an aggro card; Search for Azcanta is not an aggro card, Jace is not an aggro card. The fact that we have these cards suggests you have no idea what you are talking about and putting yourself in this position of "WotC hates anything but creatures" simply because we aren't getting Counterspell is incredibly inane.

Quote from ktkenshinx »

Perhaps the best advantage of this card is allowing Ux players to develop a board and not hold up mana. This benefits tempo/fish decks which can deploy threats and protect them or stop haymakers, and it benefits control decks that can play T2 Search or T3 Teferi/Narset without dropping shields.

Overall, I am very pleased with this card and look forward to playing it.

Quote from rickster_ »

Force of negation lets UW players tap out for turn 4 jace vs every deck. Normally if you tap out vs tron or combo you lose, this is no longer the case.

Going to quote myself and rickster here to again highlight the most important function of this card. It's not just that FoN allows Ux decks to stop T1/T2 plays that would normally have no counterplay, especially on the draw. This is an important function of FoN and one of the reasons it's playable, but it's not the reason the card is so exciting. The reason it's so exciting to me is that it opens up so many more windows where you can tap out for T2 Search, T3 Narset/Teferi, T4 JTMS, etc. and either protect your board presence or stop the opponent from doing something broken.

Ux decks have a serious problem with traction right now because they need to hold up mana on all their turns to handle opposing stuff at instant speed. This means Ux decks are waiting until T5+ before they can actually get some board presence, and they are always playing on an opponent's initiative. FoN changes this and allows Ux players to get on board and stick something important without dropping shields. Ux decks have previously been unable to do this in Modern, and this is the very reason we don't see FoW-like effects in Standard; tapping out for a walker and still having protection spells is too strong for that format. Now, Ux decks can enjoy this edge, an edge they haven't really had before in Modern. Your only other option was Shoal, which was simply too narrow.

The reveal date of Modern Horizons was so odd, it's so frustrating we have to twiddle our thumbs for another month before the spoiler season starts. If War of the Spark wasn't as huge as it turned out to be it would have just passed through my mind as white noise waiting for Horizons.

Quote from Lear_the_cat »

I would like to but I'm not sure if this will be usefull for ppl here. Most ppl on this tread who are posting are against bans and I don't think they want to hear anything about it.
I can explain my visions of more balanced modern and why bans are necessary (and some other stuuf Wizards should not do).

Go for it, I'll read a well thought out post.

At this point I personally am against bans, because losing your deck has been in my case, one of the most frustrating and tormenting experiences I've had in gaming over the last 3 years.

That said, I'm more then open to arguments for it, I just hope you consider the consequences of any ban, and what the meta would actually look like after. Better the devil you know...and all that.

the win rate is just an average taken over players of varying skill levels. it isnt a literal representation of how much any given person can win with the deck. the more players piloting a deck means that range of skill levels likely widens, thus pulling win rates towards some expected value around 50/50. its why win rates for decks usually always float in that area given enough match data; yet we arent here claiming 10+ decks are '50/50'. this is also why decks like kci, amulet, or whir that have a smaller population have frequently shown top win rates; because the influence of any one highly skilled player is greater. couple that with barriers, perceived or otherwise, that keep less skilled players away and the difference is only more pronounced.

so the GP results are what they are; the reality we have to rationalize/explain. right now im seeing claims that a deck that presumably can win only half the time is coincidentally posting these level of results because the number of players.

according to tobi henke's GP analysis articles going back 4-5 months, where he tries to measure representation of the day 1 fields, UR phoenix started out near 5% in dec-jan, increased to around 8% in feb, and broke into 11-13% range in march making it the most played deck. in the case of GP calgary burn actually beat out phoenix as the most played. note the consistency of the GP placements during this period of ramping popularity.

the stellar day 2 representation that meets those day 1 numbers, and in cases exceeding them by a good amount, therefore is probably because of the decks day 2 conversion rate. which would in turn explain the abnormally high top8 conversions.

so consider a deck roughly 1 in 10 GP attendants are bringing to the event, with a 50% win-rate, placing multiple copies in the top 8 on average for 8 consecutive events (where the environment is increasingly hostile towards the strategy no less). i dont know about you but at face value that seems absurdly improbable. more likely there is something else going on.

granted i think there are plenty of justifications for UR phoenix's success that go beyond the decks power level, most of which deal with the decks qualities that tournament grinders find attractive and the timeline of the events themselves. that said, i believe anything along the lines of 'look at its 50% win rate, its just a lot of players' does little to nothing to explain what the deck has accomplished.

Quote from ElectricEye »

If a ten mana combo starts taking over the format they can always ban, you know, the card that makes ten mana not extremely difficult to assemble.

Quote from DaveJacinto »

Quote from The Fluff »

Quote from spawnofhastur »

If Karn is real I'm... unhappy.

He's a one card combo in big mana decks. 4 mana Karn, -2, get Mycosynth Lattice, cast it for 6. Enjoy not having lands!

turning every land into an artifact land, and Null Rod Karn to shut them down. I wonder how many turns it would take tron to deploy this lockdown?

Makes me thankful there are no Tron players in the lgs I go to...

It's 10 mana lockdown. It can be deployed as soon as turn 4. Against an empty board is instant win. The +1 bombimb lands and being Affinity/Hardened Scales/Whir hate is broken. It kills Opals with the +1...

I think they pushed it a little too much.

Ignoring all the ways you can answer the combo, INCLUDING Lightning Bolt, it's just really not that scary even on its own. Expensive, two card combos over two turns are totally fine for Modern. Vannifar is another two/"one" card combo over two turns that is equally acceptable, and that one actually wins the game. Lattice doesn't even do that much! Just look at how this lines up against Modern's best decks. It's just another strong, semi-cute line in a format packed with strong lines.

if deathrite could only be cast with green i think itd be an alright card in the format. unfortunately the hybrid cost leave it opened to be played in literally every shard/wedge sans jeskai.

You aren't likely to see legacy powerhouses reprinted, including things like Force of Will, Sneak Attack, Show and Tell, Lion's Eye Diamond, Daze, Brainstorm, Wasteland, Entomb, and Hymn to Tourach, etc., because then there is no point to legacy. You also aren't likely to see any really powerful fast mana, such as Dark/Cabal Ritual or Ancient Tomb or Exploration. Further, you aren't likely to see non-interactive cards get reprinted, things like True Name Nemesis or Back to Basics or Leovold. Further, you aren't going to see any cards with Conspiracy mechanics on them, such as Will of the Council or Palace Jailer. You are also unlikely to see any particularly powerful humans, such as Sanctum Prelate. You should also not expect to see cards that have archaic mechanics on them, such as threshold, or shroud.

What you should expect is cards from bygone archetypes that don't have a home in Legacy, such as Astral Slide, Riptide Laboratory, Goblin Ringleader, Slivers, Madness cards, Psychatog, along with some more niche but powerful spells like cycling lands, Force Spike, Wirewood Symbiote, Sulfuric Vortex, Vindicate, Innocent Blood, and Impulse. Things that are strong, but not strong enough for legacy and mostly forgotten. Worse case scenario is that they take some good spells and put them on sticks.

You also have to remember that the set is built to be drafted, and as such will contain a good amount of chaff.

The people who are spouting about Force of Will are crazy and the people who think True Name Nemesis is an okay card are absolutely off their rocker.

the lack of needed currently legal reprints will probably be the headline complaint about this set. personally i can understand why wizards might have leaned toward no-reprints; however i think they could have still added a few.

for those who dont understand, it is probably just due to design space. the code for the set is 'MH1', which indicates that this will be a series product; maybe annual releases. these are presumably going to be the ONLY ancillary product(s) with the caveat of being modern legal; whereas they can put reprints basically anywhere. so if they wanted to come out swinging with all these flashy newly designed cards or pre-modern reprints it may have left too little space to fit.

that said i find it hard to believe they couldnt have fit in half or the full fetch land cycle.

edit: confirmed 36 booster pack boxes - which further indicates that the price will be closer to $5-$7 per pack than 10