Finally getting to run this on MTGO and in my first 5 matches I went off on turn 3 the majority of the time, most times with counter or silence backup in hand. Even survived a surgical on retract and still got to 20 storm that turn. Deck is sick nasty.
What damage dealing sweepers? White still has Planar Outburst and Decent upon the Sinful which will come out more once Languish rotates unless another good black sweeper drops
Note: Before the mods tell you new cards need to be kept in new card discussion until the whole set is revealed
Ah, sorry about that, they can delete it if they want.
Radiant Flames and Kozilek's return were the sweepers that I was referring to. Given the speed that Humans usually wins at, seems like planar outburst and decent would be a tad too slow.
Looking to make a post rotation RW build that really takes advantage of the fact that Languish is gone and the only real sweepers do damage. Here's what I have so far:
So a few thoughts. Start Your Engines seems beastly, especially when on the play. You can cast at least 2 creatures before turn 3 then cast Thalia turn 3 so whatever creature they play gets tapped down and swing turn 4 with Start Your Engines for tons. Turn 3 Hanweir Garrison turn 4 Start Your Engines is also pretty solid. I don't think the Hanweir Battlements is necessary to run with it. I only have one 2 drop in Thalia's LT so I wonder how the curve will really look, especially running as many 3 drops as I am. The sideboard is dedicated to dodging damage dealing sweepers and smashing harder against slow decks. Still have 5 slots there, obviously considering Gideon, but not sold. I haven't played Humans before this, so I'd love to hear thoughts from everyone. Thanks!
Please keep all discussion of Kaladesh cards in SNCD until the entire set is spoiled. Thanks! -- Lugger
Set Adrift is Sorcery speed, so no. Echoing Truth is what you want to be playing. If that's not an option then Into the Roil would suffice until you get Echoing Truth.
Set adrift puts the card on the top of the library and then it gets milled away, that's the whole point. It's completely for the white leyline, and bouncing that for one turn doesn't help you at all. You need it to straight go away.
Running MB Nihil Spellbomb is probably a really good idea currently. With Jeskai adopting Emrakul and Dredge making a HUGE showing right now, it might be smart to pack X amount of MB grave hate.
Yeah too many Nahiri/Emrakul right now. Almost unwinnable. Probably wrong time for Mill.
Lol except for the fact that u/b mill is currently 8-0 at GP L.A. right now, so there's that. Most RG tron decks not running emrakul with no eye.
So after watching Sam Black play Aurora and crush with it, people are finally realizing how powerful this card is. However I would say that Sam's deck is slower and clunkier than this version. I made a few upgrades and now the deck runs as smooth as ever. Took it to FNM tonight as my first time playing it on paper and won 4-0 with 3 of the matches being 2-0. Here is the updated list:
So, latest updates from testing, I'm running into r/g ramp a lot, as expected. I think I've decided to run more copies of world breaker, in place of elvish visionary. I've always felt like elvish visionary was kind of a weak spot in the sense that I either have everything I need in hand, or I can't find a spot to play it and waste a ramp turn. Whereas World Breaker might be quite solid in the ramp mirror match, hitting that land to keep them 1 turn short of dropping ulamog or void winnower seems to be pretty good. Will have to test it out and see.
The deck I'm currently running was touched on in the R/G ramp thread previously, but I will start a new thread with the MonoG list.
This particular ramp version differs (and is better than IMO) r/g in quite a few ways. First I'll put out the list and then go through it so here it is:
So, a main inclusion in this deck is The Great Aurora and is probably one of the best weapons a ramp deck can have, yet isn't being utilized. The overall goal to get as much permanent dominance before casting. My games start as normal ramp with leaf gilder, Nissa's Pilgrimage, Explosive Vegetation, and Nissa's Renewal. I also run Retreat to Kazandu because the life gain I gain from lands coming in when I ramp keeps me alive vs the more aggro decks. Depending on my opening hands and draws, once I get to 9-10 mana, I have a few options. I can drop Ulamog and start winning the game if I don't have Aurora in my hand. But the real goal is not to take any risk and get to 9-10 and reset the board. When you cast Aurora, you will basically have a board state after that is incredibly favorable for you, most times I have 8-12 lands in play and my opponent has 5, plus any mana that I had floating from the casting (you always tap out to cast Aurora) and a handful of threats. At this point I can lead my life gain cards like Retreat or the token generator Zendikar's roil, and reramp all over aagin, gaining massive amounts of life in the process and creating tons of tokens.. Or you can drop Ulamog directly after the reset and hit 2 of their lands right off the bat which cripples them further. To put it simply, Aurora is a game ender. You gain massive card advantage and land advantage (I normally draw 14-16 cards to my opponents 9-10) and then blow up their lands further with Ulamog or World Breaker. It's a tempo swing that can pretty much never be recovered from.
Another recent inclusion was Zendikar's roil. In my old version I didn't realize how good this card was because the slots were taken up with Ugin. But after dropping Ugin and needing a replacement, I went with Roil and it has made a world of difference. It stops decks from going wide on you, gives you chump blockers for days, and the best part is the roil 2/2s contribute to permanent count for Aurora. So every 2/2 up until aurora is cast will equal an extra card drawn after casting which is a huge deal.
R/G ramp is predicted to be the deck to beat after rotation and r/g ramp is definitively slower than this deck. They have more dead cards, and less straight gas ramp spells because they are running 2 colors. Great Aurora also works great against ramp decks because all the lands come into play untapped and it is still your turn so you get an extra turn to reramp and get further ahead and it costs 1 less than Ulamog. I also avoid getting hosed by Infinite Obliteration, because that doesn't stop Aurora or Zendikar's Roil which is a win con in itself. Getting to run Void Winnower main deck also lets me beat other ramp decks to the punch game 1 and stop the from casting their own Ulamog.
Against the rest of the meta this deck crushes. Any kind of mid range strategy is going to be too slow and just gets straight disrupted by Aurora, and aggro decks are getting hosed with so many pieces rotating out. The new madness build may be able to put something together that's fast enough but it basically needs to be able to kill me by turn 4 and pray I don't ever draw Nissa's Renewal or retreat to Kazandu. And I can't even begin to tell you how nice it is to be playing 1 color while everyone else is depressed about fetchlands being gone and trying to fix their manabases.
Let me know what you think, and any suggestions you might have, and if you're used to playing r/g ramp, I suggest you check this out and see if you can get a higher win percentage, because so far, I'm seeing a win rate unmatched by anything else in the format. Thanks for your input!
I kept the bridges and took out one magus and one prison. The deck is fun to play,whenever I had SSG in my hand I won the matches. Will keep testing.
Magus is quite possibly the best card in the deck. I would run 8 of it if I could. And the same for Ghostly Prison, it's far more effective at doing the job of buying you time
Hey guys, made some decent size changes in my list and I thought I'd give an update.
First thing I did (and a pretty scary one given how much I like it) was drop the 2x Bridge. It works out well sometimes, but I needed cards that are going to work all the time and not be totally useless sometimes. After removing bridge I added another ghostly prison and another helix. Prison is just flat out amazing, especially when coupled with Magus, and helix has saved my ass more times than I can count. And helix actually works as a decent win con, given that people get so desperate to play lands that they are always forced to play their shock lands for 2 damage so their life total gets pretty low. I also went to 4x simian spirit guide. The card is just flat out amazing in this deck. It increases my turn 2 LD spell chances by a lot and sometimes can even turn 1 rain or turn 2 Ajani which is insane. Just no reason at all not to run 4.
My biggest changes however, were in the sideboard. I dropped trinisphere (sigh, man I love this card) because it's not that great on the draw and I'm really trying to improve my matchups on the draw (on the play the deck is incredible). I also dropped rest for the weary in favor of another kor firewalker and I dropped crumble from the sideboard because I just don't think we really need it. In place of those I put in 2 Wraths because I'm having a little trouble with the aggro creature decks when I get caught with only one prison and no magus, another stony silence because I think affinity is our worst matchup probably, and also a bolt to help deal with those early creature threats.
So far the deck is doing very well. I still have a positive winning record vs Eldrazi, which given how dominant the deck is in the format now (to the point people want emergency bans) is quite an accomplishment. Tron just gets destroyed, only time I lose to Tron is when I am on the draw with no 2nd turn LD and they have tron in hand. Jund can be a slight problem sometimes but not too bad. Affinity is the hardest matchup, which I'm working on and Burn is probably 50/50. All the combo decks like Ad Nauseum, Griselbrand, and Storm have a really hard problem with this deck. I think this deck is reaaaaly well placed in the meta and just needs a little more tuning.
I'm gonna try your list but it is 62 cards
Ah forgot to remove the bridges from the updated list
Hey guys, made some decent size changes in my list and I thought I'd give an update.
First thing I did (and a pretty scary one given how much I like it) was drop the 2x Bridge. It works out well sometimes, but I needed cards that are going to work all the time and not be totally useless sometimes. After removing bridge I added another ghostly prison and another helix. Prison is just flat out amazing, especially when coupled with Magus, and helix has saved my ass more times than I can count. And helix actually works as a decent win con, given that people get so desperate to play lands that they are always forced to play their shock lands for 2 damage so their life total gets pretty low. I also went to 4x simian spirit guide. The card is just flat out amazing in this deck. It increases my turn 2 LD spell chances by a lot and sometimes can even turn 1 rain or turn 2 Ajani which is insane. Just no reason at all not to run 4.
My biggest changes however, were in the sideboard. I dropped trinisphere (sigh, man I love this card) because it's not that great on the draw and I'm really trying to improve my matchups on the draw (on the play the deck is incredible). I also dropped rest for the weary in favor of another kor firewalker and I dropped crumble from the sideboard because I just don't think we really need it. In place of those I put in 2 Wraths because I'm having a little trouble with the aggro creature decks when I get caught with only one prison and no magus, another stony silence because I think affinity is our worst matchup probably, and also a bolt to help deal with those early creature threats.
So far the deck is doing very well. I still have a positive winning record vs Eldrazi, which given how dominant the deck is in the format now (to the point people want emergency bans) is quite an accomplishment. Tron just gets destroyed, only time I lose to Tron is when I am on the draw with no 2nd turn LD and they have tron in hand. Jund can be a slight problem sometimes but not too bad. Affinity is the hardest matchup, which I'm working on and Burn is probably 50/50. All the combo decks like Ad Nauseum, Griselbrand, and Storm have a really hard problem with this deck. I think this deck is reaaaaly well placed in the meta and just needs a little more tuning.
I think consitent and fast LD is the way to go. If you watched any of the PT games in which the Eldrazi deck's didn't have Eye of Ugin in play, you would have noticed that they are like the rest ''fair'' decks.
So a few of the differences in what I'm running vs other versions of this deck I've seen. First thing is most of the deck lists I've seen are simply not running enough LD spells, most people cap it around 12 normally and I really don't agree with this. We need a minimim of 2 LD spells in our opening hand pretty much every time because you can't lock people out with anything less. As you can see, I'm running a total of 16 straight LD spells PLUS 2 Ajani Vengeant which taps down lands and blows up tons with the ultimate, and Goblin Dark Dwellers, which is 2 more LD spells. So point being, if you're gonna do LD, do LD. I also haven't seen any other list running Ensnaring Bridge. Sometimes it's hard to empty your hand to get the most use out of it, but if it even stops just a few beats from Gyof, Tasigur, and big Eldrazi then it's worth it. We don't need to swing with creatures to win, that's what Lightning Helix and Ajani are for. Any deck that's white and not running Magus of the Tabernacle is making a huge mistake, that guy is an all star. When you land it plus Ghostly Prison, it's such a solid lockdown. Every now and then the board stalemates and so we run Mistveil Plains so that we can't deck. It also lets you put LD spells back in your deck and more importantly Ajani and Helix so that you can finish people off. Most of the sideboard cards are pretty self explanitory, Trinisphere is an absolute must have.
A few cards I'm considering finding a home for. Mana Tithe works amazing in this deck, I just can't decide what I would cut for it, but it really would give us more room to breathe in the first few turns. Also would like to run 4 simic but maybe I don't need it. And lastly maybe Assemble the Legion could get a one of spot.
Ah, sorry about that, they can delete it if they want.
Radiant Flames and Kozilek's return were the sweepers that I was referring to. Given the speed that Humans usually wins at, seems like planar outburst and decent would be a tad too slow.
Looking to make a post rotation RW build that really takes advantage of the fact that Languish is gone and the only real sweepers do damage. Here's what I have so far:
4x Village Messenger
4x Expedition Envoy
4x Thraben Inspector
3x Reckless Bushwhacker
4x Thalia's Lieutenant
3x Thalia, Heretic Cathar
3x Hanweir Garrison
4x Always Watching
3x Start Your Engines
3x Declaration in Stone
2x Gryff's Boon
2x Collective Effort
Lands:
4x Inspiring Village
6x Mountains
11x Plains
3x Repel the Abominable
2x Eerie Interlude
2x Lantern Scout
1x Reckless Bushwacker
2x Stitcher's Graft
1x Declaration in Stone
So a few thoughts. Start Your Engines seems beastly, especially when on the play. You can cast at least 2 creatures before turn 3 then cast Thalia turn 3 so whatever creature they play gets tapped down and swing turn 4 with Start Your Engines for tons. Turn 3 Hanweir Garrison turn 4 Start Your Engines is also pretty solid. I don't think the Hanweir Battlements is necessary to run with it. I only have one 2 drop in Thalia's LT so I wonder how the curve will really look, especially running as many 3 drops as I am. The sideboard is dedicated to dodging damage dealing sweepers and smashing harder against slow decks. Still have 5 slots there, obviously considering Gideon, but not sold. I haven't played Humans before this, so I'd love to hear thoughts from everyone. Thanks!
Please keep all discussion of Kaladesh cards in SNCD until the entire set is spoiled. Thanks! -- Lugger
Article on Legacy Lantern for Zac's Day 2 GP Columbus run. F the haters.
Set adrift puts the card on the top of the library and then it gets milled away, that's the whole point. It's completely for the white leyline, and bouncing that for one turn doesn't help you at all. You need it to straight go away.
Lol except for the fact that u/b mill is currently 8-0 at GP L.A. right now, so there's that. Most RG tron decks not running emrakul with no eye.
4 Deathcap Cultivator
3 Leaf Gilder
3 Ulamog, the Ceaseless hunger
2 World Breaker
NonCreature
4 The Great Aurora
4 Explosive Vegetation
4 Nissa's Pilgrimage
4 Nissa's Renewal
3 Retreat to Kazandu
3 Zendikar's Roil
4 Shrine of the Forsaken Gods
3 Blighted Woodland
2 Sanctum of Ugin
17 Forest
4 Jaddi Offshoot
4 Gaea's Revenge
1 Void Winnower
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Retreat to Kazandu
1 Zendikar's Roil
Only have 12 slots in the sideboard so open to suggestions there.
The deck I'm currently running was touched on in the R/G ramp thread previously, but I will start a new thread with the MonoG list.
This particular ramp version differs (and is better than IMO) r/g in quite a few ways. First I'll put out the list and then go through it so here it is:
3 Ulamog, the Ceaseless hunger
2 Elvish Visionary
2 Void Winnower
2 World Breaker
NonCreature
4 The Great Aurora
4 Explosive Vegetation
4 Nissa's Pilgrimage
4 Nissa's Renewal
3 Retreat to Kazandu
3 Zendikar's Roil
4 Shrine of the Forsaken Gods
2 Blighted Woodland
2 Sanctum of Ugin
17 Forest
4 Jaddi Offshoot
3 Gaea's Revenge
2 Warping Wail
2 Plummet
1 Void Winnower
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Retreat to Kazandu
1 Zendikar's Roil
So, a main inclusion in this deck is The Great Aurora and is probably one of the best weapons a ramp deck can have, yet isn't being utilized. The overall goal to get as much permanent dominance before casting. My games start as normal ramp with leaf gilder, Nissa's Pilgrimage, Explosive Vegetation, and Nissa's Renewal. I also run Retreat to Kazandu because the life gain I gain from lands coming in when I ramp keeps me alive vs the more aggro decks. Depending on my opening hands and draws, once I get to 9-10 mana, I have a few options. I can drop Ulamog and start winning the game if I don't have Aurora in my hand. But the real goal is not to take any risk and get to 9-10 and reset the board. When you cast Aurora, you will basically have a board state after that is incredibly favorable for you, most times I have 8-12 lands in play and my opponent has 5, plus any mana that I had floating from the casting (you always tap out to cast Aurora) and a handful of threats. At this point I can lead my life gain cards like Retreat or the token generator Zendikar's roil, and reramp all over aagin, gaining massive amounts of life in the process and creating tons of tokens.. Or you can drop Ulamog directly after the reset and hit 2 of their lands right off the bat which cripples them further. To put it simply, Aurora is a game ender. You gain massive card advantage and land advantage (I normally draw 14-16 cards to my opponents 9-10) and then blow up their lands further with Ulamog or World Breaker. It's a tempo swing that can pretty much never be recovered from.
Another recent inclusion was Zendikar's roil. In my old version I didn't realize how good this card was because the slots were taken up with Ugin. But after dropping Ugin and needing a replacement, I went with Roil and it has made a world of difference. It stops decks from going wide on you, gives you chump blockers for days, and the best part is the roil 2/2s contribute to permanent count for Aurora. So every 2/2 up until aurora is cast will equal an extra card drawn after casting which is a huge deal.
R/G ramp is predicted to be the deck to beat after rotation and r/g ramp is definitively slower than this deck. They have more dead cards, and less straight gas ramp spells because they are running 2 colors. Great Aurora also works great against ramp decks because all the lands come into play untapped and it is still your turn so you get an extra turn to reramp and get further ahead and it costs 1 less than Ulamog. I also avoid getting hosed by Infinite Obliteration, because that doesn't stop Aurora or Zendikar's Roil which is a win con in itself. Getting to run Void Winnower main deck also lets me beat other ramp decks to the punch game 1 and stop the from casting their own Ulamog.
Against the rest of the meta this deck crushes. Any kind of mid range strategy is going to be too slow and just gets straight disrupted by Aurora, and aggro decks are getting hosed with so many pieces rotating out. The new madness build may be able to put something together that's fast enough but it basically needs to be able to kill me by turn 4 and pray I don't ever draw Nissa's Renewal or retreat to Kazandu. And I can't even begin to tell you how nice it is to be playing 1 color while everyone else is depressed about fetchlands being gone and trying to fix their manabases.
Let me know what you think, and any suggestions you might have, and if you're used to playing r/g ramp, I suggest you check this out and see if you can get a higher win percentage, because so far, I'm seeing a win rate unmatched by anything else in the format. Thanks for your input!
Magus is quite possibly the best card in the deck. I would run 8 of it if I could. And the same for Ghostly Prison, it's far more effective at doing the job of buying you time
Ah forgot to remove the bridges from the updated list
First thing I did (and a pretty scary one given how much I like it) was drop the 2x Bridge. It works out well sometimes, but I needed cards that are going to work all the time and not be totally useless sometimes. After removing bridge I added another ghostly prison and another helix. Prison is just flat out amazing, especially when coupled with Magus, and helix has saved my ass more times than I can count. And helix actually works as a decent win con, given that people get so desperate to play lands that they are always forced to play their shock lands for 2 damage so their life total gets pretty low. I also went to 4x simian spirit guide. The card is just flat out amazing in this deck. It increases my turn 2 LD spell chances by a lot and sometimes can even turn 1 rain or turn 2 Ajani which is insane. Just no reason at all not to run 4.
My biggest changes however, were in the sideboard. I dropped trinisphere (sigh, man I love this card) because it's not that great on the draw and I'm really trying to improve my matchups on the draw (on the play the deck is incredible). I also dropped rest for the weary in favor of another kor firewalker and I dropped crumble from the sideboard because I just don't think we really need it. In place of those I put in 2 Wraths because I'm having a little trouble with the aggro creature decks when I get caught with only one prison and no magus, another stony silence because I think affinity is our worst matchup probably, and also a bolt to help deal with those early creature threats.
4 Lightning Helix
4 Stone Rain
4 Molten Rain
4 Fulminator Mage
4 Magus of the Tabernacle
4 Boom/Bust
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Ghostly Prison
2 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
2 Ajani Vengeant
4 Arid Mesa
4 Flagstones of Trokair
4 Temple of Triumph
3 Sacred Foundry
2 Mistveil Plains
2 Encroaching Wastes
2 Plains
2 Mountain
1 Windswept Heath
2 Wrath of God
3 Stony Silence
2 Pyroclasm
3 Kor Firewalker
2 Rest in Peace
1 Wear/Tear
1 Nevermore
1 Lightning Bolt
So far the deck is doing very well. I still have a positive winning record vs Eldrazi, which given how dominant the deck is in the format now (to the point people want emergency bans) is quite an accomplishment. Tron just gets destroyed, only time I lose to Tron is when I am on the draw with no 2nd turn LD and they have tron in hand. Jund can be a slight problem sometimes but not too bad. Affinity is the hardest matchup, which I'm working on and Burn is probably 50/50. All the combo decks like Ad Nauseum, Griselbrand, and Storm have a really hard problem with this deck. I think this deck is reaaaaly well placed in the meta and just needs a little more tuning.
Here is this list I'm currently running:
4 Lightning Helix
4 Stone Rain
4 Molten Rain
4 Fulminator Mage
4 Magus of the Tabernacle
4 Boom/Bust
3 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Ghostly Prison
2 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Ajani Vengeant
4 Arid Mesa
4 Flagstones of Trokair
4 Temple of Triumph
3 Sacred Foundry
2 Mistveil Plains
2 Encroaching Wastes
2 Plains
2 Mountain
1 Windswept Heath
3 Trinisphere
2 Stony Silence
2 Pyroclasm
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Rest in Peace
1 Wear/Tear
1 Nevermore
1 Crumble to Dust
1 Rest for the Weary
So a few of the differences in what I'm running vs other versions of this deck I've seen. First thing is most of the deck lists I've seen are simply not running enough LD spells, most people cap it around 12 normally and I really don't agree with this. We need a minimim of 2 LD spells in our opening hand pretty much every time because you can't lock people out with anything less. As you can see, I'm running a total of 16 straight LD spells PLUS 2 Ajani Vengeant which taps down lands and blows up tons with the ultimate, and Goblin Dark Dwellers, which is 2 more LD spells. So point being, if you're gonna do LD, do LD. I also haven't seen any other list running Ensnaring Bridge. Sometimes it's hard to empty your hand to get the most use out of it, but if it even stops just a few beats from Gyof, Tasigur, and big Eldrazi then it's worth it. We don't need to swing with creatures to win, that's what Lightning Helix and Ajani are for. Any deck that's white and not running Magus of the Tabernacle is making a huge mistake, that guy is an all star. When you land it plus Ghostly Prison, it's such a solid lockdown. Every now and then the board stalemates and so we run Mistveil Plains so that we can't deck. It also lets you put LD spells back in your deck and more importantly Ajani and Helix so that you can finish people off. Most of the sideboard cards are pretty self explanitory, Trinisphere is an absolute must have.
A few cards I'm considering finding a home for. Mana Tithe works amazing in this deck, I just can't decide what I would cut for it, but it really would give us more room to breathe in the first few turns. Also would like to run 4 simic but maybe I don't need it. And lastly maybe Assemble the Legion could get a one of spot.