For clarity: it is not a proven scum tactic for everyone to lurk and fence sit, in fact that is a proven recipe for failure. There has to be some sort of proactive moves by the scum to coerce the town to vote for who they want.
Not really. Scum can sit back and let the town lead lynches on each other.
Also, how has wolf tried to lead a lynch at any point? The accusation that someone is trying to "lead a lynch" when it's like page 3 or 4 and they are placing one of the first few votes out of random voting is preposterous, wouldn't you say? Any vote could be called trying to lead a lynch if that is the criteria you use. Why aren't people voting me for trying to lead a lynch on Syrenz? Then I could follow it up by OMGUSing them for trying to lead a lynch on me. It would be a truly vicious cycle.
I guarantee there are scum pushing the Wolf wagon.
All I was saying is that if the entire scum team tries to sit back and lurk, they will get called out on it and could face suspicion for that, something the scum don't want as that leads to a lynch. They want to lead the town into voting for a townie by playing off townies suspicions.
As I've been saying ever since wolf voted Jskura for posting in haikus, I also believe there are scum among those voting/leading the charge against wolf.
I admit that I haven't been keeping but as much as I would have liked due to school starting, and I haven't done a reread on the case on Syrenz. Until that is done my suspicions are the same as the last time you asked me about them.
I don't have time to hit everything. Sorry, it's been a busy week at work.
Helping the town is not a prerequisite to being town. Whether or not Wolf has been helpful doesn't directly correlate to whether or not he's scum.
I think it's quite unlikely that he is. I simply don't see him acting like this if he's scum. Keep in mind the objectives of town and scum players. Scum are trying to blend in with the town and avoid being lynched. That is their primary goal. Has Wolf at all played toward this win condition?
However it is not that simple. The scum must also lead the town into lynching someone who is not one of their own. Whether or not wolf has done this is up to debate, but it seems to be what the case on him is based on.
I'm not jumping on the wagon wolf, if you remember I originally supported you. It's just that now your posts are not helpful in the least, and that doesn't help the town.
Okay first off Gnome, you are not responding to others. Responding to others would be addressing stuff that was meant for you. You are talking about other peoples convos. And I have no care in the world that you are suspicious of me. Your suspicious of everybody. It's the bloody game. I'm just sick of the extremely long, half pointless stuff, that pops up on my page. Not too mention you conceteidly called yourself epic in the first long quote post. And you also continue to ask people to talk more. Is it really there fault that they may not be able to talk? eh? Back off a bit is all I'm asking. And until I get a better reason to vote for someone else,
Vote Gnome
Uh, that's not really a reason to vote for someone. Gnome is doing some very thorough analysis. Sure her posts are long and they can be a bit of a pain to read, but I don't really see how that's scummy. In fact it gives off a pretty strong town read to me.
Wolf's play has changed pretty substantially in recent posts. First he cuts it short with Jskura by simply saying that it was over, and then he responded to suspicion on him by saying "This is proving to be...how shall we say...blah." which doesn't mean anything. I don't know if he is just getting tired of arguing or what, but I can only assume next will come "I'm town and you'll see when I'm dead" style posts. I suggest you go back to actually defending yourself because my town read on you has fallen considerably.
Re: Gnomes last post about me. I am starting to see what the case on wolf was all about. What caught my eye was 4 people jumping on it right away which I thought was so suspicious I actually ignored what wolf was doing. I am not convinced he is scum, but his last few posts made me look back and reevaluate him and the conclusion I have come to is one of uncertainty. Future posts will be the determining factor for me re wolf. That said, I continue to find it suspicious that 4 people jumped on him. Nothing has changed there.
Let me get this straight. you said that you were suspicious since I FoSed Wolf, and now you say that you are suspicious because of my response from you accusing me of wagoning in a way that shows not that we said "whoops yeah that's bad, lets look at other stuff." but rather "Hey, would you look at that. I see why he thought we were wagoning."?
And this time, you're saying that since several people had the same opinion and FoSed the same person, you are suspicious of us starting a wagon?
And i don't know if you'll see this as starting a wagon:
FoS Frenger
I find 4 people FoSing the same player for the same thing (which was rather trivial) suspicious. I feel that in this situation there is heavy potential for a bandwagon to start and the scum to take advantage of it.
I find it even more suspicious that you pretty much blow off me bringing that up when I FoS you. The reason it isn't as you said "Hey, would you look at that. I see why he thought we were wagoning."? is because you're still going after wolf, which makes it seem like you're trying to continue that wagon. Gigas on the other hand just went ahead and started lurking after I brought up the wagon on wolf which is why he is also scummy.
Frenger: Out of the 3 people you FoS in post 112, list them in order of scummiest to towniest and explain why.
What up silky?
Scum
1. Keeper: For FoSing wolf along with 4 others, then continuing to go after him despite the case against wolf being pretty weak. Also for attempting to get attention off of the fact that I called him out on wagoning wolf.
2. Gigas: Also was one of 4 players to FoS wolf, then also tried to get attention off of me calling wagon on wolf. Also for lurking.
3. Jskura: Initially suspicious for FoSing wolf and then attacking him further. You're the one leading the case on wolf, who I believe to be town.
Town
And then you say you are only suspicious of two people.
Furthermore you say that you're suspicious for FoSing Wolf, now you are changing and saying that you're suspicious of them for responding badly.
FoS Frenger
...
I'm suspicious of the for FoSing wolf AND responding badly. That's why I'm more suspicious of Keeper and Gigas than you and Jskura. You guys all 4 FoSed wolf which is what caught my eye as a potential wagon starting. When I brought that up, Keeper and Gigas gave really poor responses which made me focus on them as potential scum candidates.
As I said before a wagon is rarely all scum, so when looking at one we have to assume that there are some scum and some town in it. It is our job to figure out who is scum and who is town, and we do that by focusing on the players that are the scummier ones out of those in the wagon. For me, that is Gigas and Keeper and not you and jskura.
I'm not understanding you over there. I'm pretty sure everyone who FoSed Wolf gave their good reasons. For example here's mine:
You pretty much just ignored everyone's reasons over there from what I can tell.
I'm less concerned with you and jskura and more concerned with Gigas and Keeper who responded to my accusations of them wagoning with a "whoops yeah that's bad, lets look at other stuff."
This. I got the $1500 Macbook Pro 13" and it's the absolute best computer I've ever had; it beats out Vista all the way, and I don't think I've had a better laptop or desktop with PC.:D And I'm going to upgrade to Snow Leopard in Spring.;)
Congratulations, IMO you made the right choice. Snow Leopard comes out tomorrow and looks to be an awesome OS. I can't wait to play around with it.
As a new mac user, I'd recommend you check out this site.
You'll find a ton of great, free, programs for doing all sorts of stuff. My favorites are Adium (instant messaging), The Unarchiver (great app for opening any filetype imaginable), Transmission (torrent client), VLC (duh), and Colloquy for IRC chat.
I wouldn't wait for too long on those answers. They seemingly deflected the attention back off of themselves pretty easily as it would appear.
Yeah, that's why I brought it up again. The fact that those guys all FoSed you is still quite suspicious to me. You and jskura's back and forts about you starting a wagon seemed to take the spotlight away from the fact that 4 players all FoSed you for no good reason.
Maybe I should bold my FoS again because it seems to have been ignored. FoS Gigas and Keeper.
Don't try and put me under pressure. If you do remember, I plainly stated I was not trying to start a wagon. (Doesn't this fall under WIFOM?) And your posting of haiku does irk me, btw. Time is not short, I only have two votes. It takes 5 more to lynch me.
As far as the wagon count went, I was pretty sure that you were the second to FOS me, if I had my mouse I would dig deeper into this but my usb extender is shot so I don't have use of my mouse atm.
And JS, claiming my defense was weak is itself ill-suited. The only reason you responded to my posts is my proposed aggression itself. Which you responded with a vote, after I had infact dropped my admittedly weak vote on you. Honestly, I still think your actions are scummy seeing as you have only really become active recently.
When I think of something new I'll let you know.
And just a little note on how I see things: I think FOS is pointless, so as long as I am around I'll probably either be abstaining or voting and that's about all you will most likely see from me.
I'll post more probably tomorrow, for now I'm beat from physical training.
Why are you getting all defensive about being put under pressure? You do know that putting pressure on other players is the only way we accomplish anything in this game right? Furthermore is looks suspicious to react like this instead of proving your innocence.
I don't like that you attacked jskura for posting in haikus because posting style really means nothing in terms of player alignment. However I still don't think you were starting a wagon, but rather throwing out suspicion.
For me I am still most suspicious of Gigas and Keeper. When I confronted them about starting a wagon on Wolf they both gave cop out answers and said sorry. All very short, as if trying to get attention off the issue. My FoS on you two remains.
ATT will tell you want you want to hear to make a sale also the iphone is web driven like the sidekick and is a security risk if your not in an area that doesn't support data you won't even be able to make a phone call. also if you unlock it an upgrade to OS it will do a complete rewrite an re lock your phone.
I don't like maufatures teling me what i can can't do or what i can or cannot put on the phone, an Apple has a notorious history of doing that.
I never heard about phones doing a re lock. Everyone I know with unlocked iPhones does not have problems. I do agree that manufactures imposing locks and controls on products is really stupid, but thats why I jailbroke my iPhone and now enjoy doing whatever I please with it. I didn't have to unlock mine though because here in France we have several carriers to choose from unlike ATT's monopoly in the USA.
Still though, what can blackberries do that iPhones can't? I can't think of one thing you can do on them that an iPhone can't do, but I can think on plenty of things you can do only on an iPhone. Hell the entire app store is full of great things unavailable on other phones. Furthermore it's all packed into a small device without the bother of those awkward keyboards that other smart phones have.
The problem with Keeper's post was that he and the people he was speaking for were acting suspicious. True he could have been saying 'we' and talking about the town, but he was being scummy and so were the people he spoke for.
Speaking of keeper, where on earth is he? His lack of posting when under pressure makes me even more suspicious of him.
Gnome: You had brought up the fact that 4 people had FoSed Wolf, and there are likely 3 scum in this game. What I was saying is that in a wagon, the scum usually take advantage of a townies suspicion when forming a wagon, so that the people in the wagon are not exclusively scum. This is how we account for more people in a wagon then there are actual scum (assuming the normal 3 scum per 12 person game).
So that makes four people lol :tinyteach:. That might be a bit much to simply write off as a scum-wagon. Heck, I’m not too thrilled with the way Wolf has been acting either :rolleyes:. I am inclined to at least consider the possibility that he is just newb & does not know what is good for the town/ does not really think about things from that perspective, though, rather than just voting him. That said, ever since he voted for jskura because of jskura’s (obviously) random vote, his actions have only gotten stranger. He said the thing about (paraphrasing) “But I didn’t know if he himself was being real, that’s why I didn’t vote or even FOS”, which kind of struck me as “I’m not trying to start a wagon! Honest!” And his recent posts have been kind of defensive:
It's actually quite possible that it's a scum wagon, despite there being 4 people who FoSed WwaB. Wagons are usually started by a townie and jumped on by scum, or started by a scum in a way that will get a townie to jump on (but that takes a more experienced scum). Regardless wagons are a tactic built around taking advantage of a townie's suspicion.
The hard part for us town is figuring out who is town and who is scum among those in the wagon, because it could be anyone.
Right now I'm most suspicious of Keeper for his incredibly poor choice of words here:
Quote from Keeper »
What difference is there in WwaB's post and ours that show that he wasn't starting a wagon and we were? I was suspicious of WwaB not only because i thought he was starting a wagon but because of not being able to help with the town for voting someone without any valid reason.
This could very likely have been a slip up on Keeper's part, because no player is in a position to speak for another unless they are scum or masons.
I should also note however that I am not sold on WwaB's alignment either. Zaccormon mentions:
Quote from Zac »
Another finger point at Wolf, who I think is innocent. Maybe the owner of the finger is really who should be investigated more thoroughly?
But really Wolf has done nothing yet to sell me either way. Until I am confident, I will not consider someone town.
Go for it, I actually recently did this, selling everything but 3 decks and one binder of trade stock and cards i plan to use soon. I have decks to play with and cards to trade, but there's none of those 1000 count boxes in the room or anything, and it makes it a lot easier to manage your cards.
All I was saying is that if the entire scum team tries to sit back and lurk, they will get called out on it and could face suspicion for that, something the scum don't want as that leads to a lynch. They want to lead the town into voting for a townie by playing off townies suspicions.
As I've been saying ever since wolf voted Jskura for posting in haikus, I also believe there are scum among those voting/leading the charge against wolf.
I admit that I haven't been keeping but as much as I would have liked due to school starting, and I haven't done a reread on the case on Syrenz. Until that is done my suspicions are the same as the last time you asked me about them.
However it is not that simple. The scum must also lead the town into lynching someone who is not one of their own. Whether or not wolf has done this is up to debate, but it seems to be what the case on him is based on.
Mod: can we have a votecount?
Not helping.
Attacking someone for posting content?
Uh, that's not really a reason to vote for someone. Gnome is doing some very thorough analysis. Sure her posts are long and they can be a bit of a pain to read, but I don't really see how that's scummy. In fact it gives off a pretty strong town read to me.
Wolf's play has changed pretty substantially in recent posts. First he cuts it short with Jskura by simply saying that it was over, and then he responded to suspicion on him by saying "This is proving to be...how shall we say...blah." which doesn't mean anything. I don't know if he is just getting tired of arguing or what, but I can only assume next will come "I'm town and you'll see when I'm dead" style posts. I suggest you go back to actually defending yourself because my town read on you has fallen considerably.
Re: Gnomes last post about me. I am starting to see what the case on wolf was all about. What caught my eye was 4 people jumping on it right away which I thought was so suspicious I actually ignored what wolf was doing. I am not convinced he is scum, but his last few posts made me look back and reevaluate him and the conclusion I have come to is one of uncertainty. Future posts will be the determining factor for me re wolf. That said, I continue to find it suspicious that 4 people jumped on him. Nothing has changed there.
I find 4 people FoSing the same player for the same thing (which was rather trivial) suspicious. I feel that in this situation there is heavy potential for a bandwagon to start and the scum to take advantage of it.
I find it even more suspicious that you pretty much blow off me bringing that up when I FoS you. The reason it isn't as you said "Hey, would you look at that. I see why he thought we were wagoning."? is because you're still going after wolf, which makes it seem like you're trying to continue that wagon. Gigas on the other hand just went ahead and started lurking after I brought up the wagon on wolf which is why he is also scummy.
What up silky?
Scum
1. Keeper: For FoSing wolf along with 4 others, then continuing to go after him despite the case against wolf being pretty weak. Also for attempting to get attention off of the fact that I called him out on wagoning wolf.
2. Gigas: Also was one of 4 players to FoS wolf, then also tried to get attention off of me calling wagon on wolf. Also for lurking.
3. Jskura: Initially suspicious for FoSing wolf and then attacking him further. You're the one leading the case on wolf, who I believe to be town.
Town
...
I'm suspicious of the for FoSing wolf AND responding badly. That's why I'm more suspicious of Keeper and Gigas than you and Jskura. You guys all 4 FoSed wolf which is what caught my eye as a potential wagon starting. When I brought that up, Keeper and Gigas gave really poor responses which made me focus on them as potential scum candidates.
As I said before a wagon is rarely all scum, so when looking at one we have to assume that there are some scum and some town in it. It is our job to figure out who is scum and who is town, and we do that by focusing on the players that are the scummier ones out of those in the wagon. For me, that is Gigas and Keeper and not you and jskura.
I'm less concerned with you and jskura and more concerned with Gigas and Keeper who responded to my accusations of them wagoning with a "whoops yeah that's bad, lets look at other stuff."
Congratulations, IMO you made the right choice. Snow Leopard comes out tomorrow and looks to be an awesome OS. I can't wait to play around with it.
As a new mac user, I'd recommend you check out this site.
http://www.opensourcemac.org/
You'll find a ton of great, free, programs for doing all sorts of stuff. My favorites are Adium (instant messaging), The Unarchiver (great app for opening any filetype imaginable), Transmission (torrent client), VLC (duh), and Colloquy for IRC chat.
Yeah, that's why I brought it up again. The fact that those guys all FoSed you is still quite suspicious to me. You and jskura's back and forts about you starting a wagon seemed to take the spotlight away from the fact that 4 players all FoSed you for no good reason.
Maybe I should bold my FoS again because it seems to have been ignored. FoS Gigas and Keeper.
lol it doesnt help when you start at 11 am and go till 4 am and then wake up at 9 am.
Why are you getting all defensive about being put under pressure? You do know that putting pressure on other players is the only way we accomplish anything in this game right? Furthermore is looks suspicious to react like this instead of proving your innocence.
I don't like that you attacked jskura for posting in haikus because posting style really means nothing in terms of player alignment. However I still don't think you were starting a wagon, but rather throwing out suspicion.
For me I am still most suspicious of Gigas and Keeper. When I confronted them about starting a wagon on Wolf they both gave cop out answers and said sorry. All very short, as if trying to get attention off the issue. My FoS on you two remains.
Sorry for this, I was battling a serious hangover most of the day that is just now going away.
I never heard about phones doing a re lock. Everyone I know with unlocked iPhones does not have problems. I do agree that manufactures imposing locks and controls on products is really stupid, but thats why I jailbroke my iPhone and now enjoy doing whatever I please with it. I didn't have to unlock mine though because here in France we have several carriers to choose from unlike ATT's monopoly in the USA.
Still though, what can blackberries do that iPhones can't? I can't think of one thing you can do on them that an iPhone can't do, but I can think on plenty of things you can do only on an iPhone. Hell the entire app store is full of great things unavailable on other phones. Furthermore it's all packed into a small device without the bother of those awkward keyboards that other smart phones have.
Speaking of keeper, where on earth is he? His lack of posting when under pressure makes me even more suspicious of him.
Gnome: You had brought up the fact that 4 people had FoSed Wolf, and there are likely 3 scum in this game. What I was saying is that in a wagon, the scum usually take advantage of a townies suspicion when forming a wagon, so that the people in the wagon are not exclusively scum. This is how we account for more people in a wagon then there are actual scum (assuming the normal 3 scum per 12 person game).
It's actually quite possible that it's a scum wagon, despite there being 4 people who FoSed WwaB. Wagons are usually started by a townie and jumped on by scum, or started by a scum in a way that will get a townie to jump on (but that takes a more experienced scum). Regardless wagons are a tactic built around taking advantage of a townie's suspicion.
The hard part for us town is figuring out who is town and who is scum among those in the wagon, because it could be anyone.
Right now I'm most suspicious of Keeper for his incredibly poor choice of words here:
This could very likely have been a slip up on Keeper's part, because no player is in a position to speak for another unless they are scum or masons.
I should also note however that I am not sold on WwaB's alignment either. Zaccormon mentions:
But really Wolf has done nothing yet to sell me either way. Until I am confident, I will not consider someone town.