Tamiyo is super good in as a card advantage engine, or a way to keep your opponent's threats in check. I think Down // Dirty is a very powerful card, I just don't think this list is it's correct home. It seems a little too durdly to make an impact in this list, especially because you can't fetch it out and cast both halves with BtL.
I really like your list and how you've taken a different spin on the idea. What you do about Release making you sac your Jar. Do you often have servo tokens to sacrifice? Aside from that it seems really sweet.
I'm thinking of adding one Research // Development to the main in the witch list so I can take advantage of Bring to Light as a tutor. I'll fill the sideboard with silver bullets for killing certain decks.
Here's what I'm thinking for my silver bullets:
Alive // Well for aggro decks. It's also a great card regardless with Jar. Also pretty sure it gains you 8 life with Sram's Expertise. Only reason it's not in the main is because its it broken like Beck // Call.
Memoricide for any combo deck. Also for any card that is too good against us.
Hi all, fisrt post from me. As a spirit player i have some questions for you:
LANDS) Why would you prefer fastlands (Seachromecoast) over glacial fortress? Are you afraid to start with glacial and no fetch/shockland/basic land, forcing you to play glacial fortress tapped?
is Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth any good to fix black mana? or just a non-producing-mana land ?
what's the time when you would consider playing 22 lands instead of 21 or even 20 (??) ,in a spirit deck running 4 aether vials?
-X -X WHIPERS) in standard, my troubls so far have been against cards as Yanehhni's Expertise, it clears the board with a general -3/-3 status. I'm afraid my drogskol captains wont be enough against this threat. isnt it a threat in modern too?
COUNTERSPELLING) i fail to see where remand is better than manaleak. You re drawing one but you haven't scried so i wouldnt trade letting my opponenet casta threat next turn with drawing one card
FATAL PUSH VS VAPOR SNAG) i'd pick vapor snag since it's blue (my main color) , deals one damage and can hit whatever creature. Then, is always fatal push > slaughter pact?
OFF TOPIC CARDS) do you think 2 copies of sword of fire and ice can help in the meta game? evading + shocking + drawing sounds interesting to me, expecially with a vial letting me flashing one spirit in at need. I personally would chose SoF&I over steel of the godhand, since if i get my enchanted creature killed i give my opponent a 2for1 advantage. yes it is slower, but you can equit to whoever you want and kicks hard once you start damaging your opponenet with it. I imagin the sword making the job from the turn you have 4-5 lands on the board, letting you cast it and still having 1 mana or 2 to cast counterspells (manaleak/spell pierce) or such.
- giving a chance to enchantments: any of you has ever thought of aqueous form applied on the Geist of San Traft or on Dimir Cutpurse (if you re splashing black it could be annoying to receive cutpurse effect + inquisition of Kozilek / thoughtseize/espercharm). making these 2 guys unblockable + being able to scy 1 makes me consider the combo.
- what do you think about legendary kamigawa lands like Eiganjo's Castle / Shizo, Death storehouse? I would play one copy of them in change on one plain and one swamp, and make interactions with GoST /protect my Kira or Thalia
THALIA) i feel comfortable with some spell control & board control cards ( mana leak, vapor snag, inquisition of kozilak, maybe one or 2 detention spheres) so the Thalia i'd be fine to play if the eldrich moon version : thalia heretic cathar. In standard she lets me slow down my oppponent making his non basic lands enter tapped , so for the creatures. buys me time. Wouldn't be a good buy in a modern spirit deck? ok she doesnt combo with spirits, but dont you find her > neblegast herald in terms of slowing your opponent down?
- Finally, since my problems comes after turn 5 -6 where my hand slims down and i have no high impact cards, what do you think about "Sorin, solemn visitor" ? he interacts with Mausoleum Wanderer to boost his power, gives you lifelink which is always good news in a deck playing 3-4 shock lands + 8 fetch, and makes you deal some extra damage, speeding you up towards victory. His & counter effects sounds amazing to me aswell, but just for the acceleration it gives with the +1/+0 & lifelink effect i'd be fine with him.
I hope i've given some new cards to discuss about. Just let me point out once again i'm worried about having too many and too small creatures on the board as the turns go on, and finding myslef either wiped out or stalled by one single big flying creature.
(ps: i've been starting magic again on eldricht moon release after 10 years. in this moment i'm playing succesfully my spirit deck in Standard and preparing the deck for modern.)
If you're saying you wouldn't want to trade a card for your opponent playing a threat, Vapor Snag contradicts. Vapor Snag isn't a solution, it's a delay to a problem. Just like remand. Fatal Push solves problems. Remand is played because not only does it delay threats and slow down tap out decks, it also replaces itself.
Great results Slippaz! Good to see good results with the deck.
I can definitely see including Intangible Virtue in my list. It actually seems very powerful, because it does two things we want to accomplish with our tokens.
One, we want to end the game quickly. doubling the token size makes a massive difference, and it shortens the clock considerably.
Two, it makes us less vulnerable to ground threats. One of my problems in testing is I can't attack because the backswing from my opponent will just kill me. Intangible Virtue completely solves that problem while also being a more reliable card than Hour of Reckoning.
Sorin is extremely hard to deal with in my experience. I've played games where a resolved Sorin and a Shambling Vent bring my opponent back from the Dead. I'll try him out.
Spell Pierce does seem really good at the moment.
Far // Away seems good when Infect or Bant Eldrazi reach the top.
Want to note that GoST is a really good sideboard option against control opponents. It can really catch them off guard. It also helps in a lot of our bad matchups like Tron, Storm, and other unfair decks.
Hey, another idea for a list is Sultai.
Sultai could be a good list for Ancestral Visions and down dirty for an attrition engine.
And if we're getting super crazy, we could build a four color list for bring to light.
I can see a Witch (UBWG) list being fun. Trying to take advantage of Bring to light, down dirty, ancestral visions, and Beck Call all in one list.
Will def post the list as soon as I get home. Sorry about that. Played a couple games with it last night and it at least felt explosive if not stable.
On the downm/dirty note, when you say it works with Sram's, do you mean you can actually target the expertise card with Dirty, or do you mean that the fuse works generally? Because Dirty targets as it goes on the stack, so the expertise isn't in the yard yet to target...I think? If you can do it I'd be really interested in why that works.
Thanks for posting. I might be wrong on the Down // Dirty front. I was basing it off of Eternal Witness working with Expertises, but now that I think about it, it shouldn't work since E wit triggers when it enters. Dang, thought something good was going on there. Still though, a fuzed Down Dirty plus 3 1/1s or wiping the board is almost always enough to get you back in a hard game.
That list definitely looks strong. I'm just afraid of it going too far into the combo plan. Ancestral visions is a great card advantage engine, just not sure if it's redundant with Beck // Call in the deck. I think I'd probably rather Fuse Far // Away or some other card that takes the pressure off. I can see playing it in a deck with Yahenni's Expertise, but then the token plan seems counterintuitive.
Looked up the interaction, Down // Dirty does work with Sram's. Although I'm thinking Yahenni's might have a good place in a list that grinds the game like that.
Can you post the token list for reference? Don't have SCG premium.
I think it are underestimating Ancestral Vision into Smallpox. Pox delays the game, slowing things down to ensure you don't fall behind while you're waiting to draw those extra cards.
Personally, I love this brew. Nice innovation OP. I'm gonna test some lists and provide feedback
I can't help but feel like Kari Zev's Expertise would be better than Yahenni. I guess then it wouldn't be able to cast Catch/Release though. I'm gonna try replacing Catch with Kari rather than run both. Kari into Smallpox is just nasty. And without catch, she can cast just about any other card in the deck.
There's a lot of power behind Kari Zev's Expertise into smallpox. Being able to take control of a creature and then sac it is awesome. Be careful using it though, Yahenni's or Sram's is much better in a vacuum. If you or your opponent doesn't control a creature you can't cast it without it fizzling. The latter two, while more expensive, are also more reliable. If you want to run Kari Zev's I would in the sideboard, or you can alter your list to include more creatures so you can be more consistent.
Yeah I think it's a strong card in the right context, but besides not getting extra value I think the issue is that running Jar efficiently requires you to run as few creatures as possible, so Rise is automatically kind of limited. I'd have a gard time even fitting in 4 Snaps just to do the "bounce my own Snap get one back from the yard" stuff that Grixis sometimes landed when it ran one R//F. Because of that, I think Esper Charm is more appropriate as a "discard two" since the other two modes are both good. Also being able to drawstep it without Jar (and off Snap) is a big plus, even if the "random" factor on Fall can be a blowout. Definitely reasonable, though.
I think there's also theoretically a primarily Abzan deck in here as well. Maelstrom Pulse and Lingering Souls are both really good with Jar. My main concern is with not running much in the way of card selection, but the deckbuilding options are decent at least--IMO probably tied with Esper with the best (especially since we need at least two of WUG to be prominent so we can hardcast beck // call).
Having the ability to hardcast Call is pretty important in my opinion. It adds some inevitability to the deck. Lingering Souls can be played in esper as well, It's not exclusive to abzan. In fact, I have a playset in the sideboard. If we play abzan or bant, I can see playing cantrip creatures to take advantage of beck.
Abzan seems to have the most variety of fuse cards.
The fuse cards worth considering.
Alive // Well seems very strong. Not only does it let us gain a ton of life if needed, it also gets us a 3/3 for the first jar activation.
Wear // Tear would be okay if we were in those colors. Generally you bring it in for one of its modes, not both, so its not great.
Supply // Demand is better than it looks. It triggers beck with it's Supply mode as much as you'd like. It also means you can cast demand off of jar's second activation because supply is 2 mana. Demand searches for Beck // Call, thats why you'd want it. If you're going all in in cantrip to victory then this is a card you'll want to run.
Down // Dirty seems like a great attrition engine. Imagine casing this off of Sram's Expertise or Yahenni's Expertise. You either get to stall the board or wipe the board, then you make your opponent discard two, and you can get back any card, or the expertise you just cast. Needs testing, but seems very powerful to me.
Ready // Willing is great for dealing with boardwipes, or against creature heavy aggro decks where deathtouch and lifelink make it impossible for your opponents to get anything done. I especially like this as a combat trick with vial. You cast both sides, get to untap your creatures, and give them indestructible, lifelink and deathtouch. That's just nasty.
Crime // Punishment is really interesting. You can cast Crime on vial's second activation , or off a expertise, which might be good in a Thoughtseize shell. What's interesting though is I'm pretty sure you can cast punishment for 0 off of jar or Expertise, wiping the board of 0 drops and tokens. Helps against lingering souls. Super secret affinity hate.
Hit // Run seems like a good finisher. You'd have to play either Birds of Paradise or jund colors to make it good though.
Trial // Error doesn't do enough in esper to warrant an inclusion.
Has anyone considered Rise // Fall with Brain ? Getting to choose whichever mode you need with Brain seems pretty good.
"Rise" can be cast even without Brain and can bounce an opponent's creature (or your own S.Mage) and get back a dead Snapcaster Mage and "Fall" can be a kind of Hymn to Tourach with Brain in instant speed.
Part of what makes Brain and the Expertises so effective is they can fuse the cards. It becomes much less powerful if you can't. Both of the effects seem pretty mediocre in the shell. Not to say it doesn't warrant testing, I could be completely wrong. My gut tells me it doesn't do enough for the deck.
Just saw this thread, and I'm really glad people are looking into Esper Jar (a guy from reddit that I've discussed it with a lot suggested the name Brain Control, which I'll run with)!
Man, I'm glad someone else is playing a deck like this and seeing Jar as a card that actually does things besides the combo! So many people I talk to about versions of the deck are skimping on Jars in favor of Expertise cards and saying that they don't want to ever draw 2 Jars. If you're on a draw-go style gameplan, having 2 Jars is play is actually amazing. You can 1) Alternate the scries on endstep to hold up counters and still be able to fuse a topdecked Beck 2) Scry one up and down while keeping the other on a specific number as an answer--for example keeping one Jar on 3 to hold up instant speed Verdict to effectively close out the game against a deck like Affinity. Also, if you have an Esper Charm in your hand and just tick a Jar up to 2 (with no Beck...say a 2-mana draw spell or nothing), then drawing a second one on your fifth turn and making your opponent discard 4 can be totally nuts by matchup.
I played the original list that Saffronolive ran on stream, but I've made some changes around AER as well. I liked the core of the deck (here it is for reference), but the the combination of metagame changes and extra early interaction (push) has driven me to swap the Deprives out for Cryptics. That was what I did originally, but I ended up actually preferring Deprive for a long time, and the mana cheating from Jar does actually help balance out Deprive's drawback. It's still viable, but I'm on the Cryptic kick for the moment.
You'll notice that I'm not running any Yahenni's Expertise. I honestly just think Verdict is way too good as an instant (although it's amazing in general) to pass up as my go-to sweeper, and as you mentioned above, Sram's is...actually a really good card for what we want to do. I don't think I want more than 2 copies of an Expertise in the deck right now because in general I'd rather just hold up interaction and endstep Esper Charm T4 than mainphase it to add 3 1/1's. In some situations that's fine, but in general I like having more Jars than Expertise effects. One sweet thing about the Expertises, though, is that they smooth out your Jar curve really well. If you have, say, a Sram's in hand with no Beck, you can tick up Jar past 1 and still fuse Beck//Call at instant speed off your 4-spot. It lets you Beck 3 times between 2 and 6. You can endstep Esper Charm your opponent off Jar for one mana, then untap and Sram's to Esper Charm again for one mana while holding up other interaction...it's crazy. Sram's also gives you a pretty obscene aggro plan against BGx that doesn't rely on Jar (especially vs Jund which has both decays and K Commands), and that's a matchup where YE doesn't really do anything beyond kill Souls tokens (that we're pretty good at handling).
Anyway, I've been thinking about doing some commentary over a comp league on MODO if anyone would be interested in watching it. I was actually going to make a thread for the archetype to go with it, but I'm glad someone beat me to it I do have gameplay videos floating around somewhere that I grabbed before the update cut us off old replays as well that I might be able to find/post. I've had a couple people contact me about the deck, so I'll let them know there's a thread up now to help get the discussion going! The core idea of cheating out Beck in an Esper deck is legitimately competitive, and I wanna hear more about what people are doing with it.
Glad to see someone as excited as I am about the playability of the combo.
A few things to mention:
One, I can see your list is a very Esper controlish list, with lots of late game. My list is optimized to achieve the combo as fast as possible, and it can consistently fire it off turn four. It's really riding on the combo. Ive thrown in Inquisitions to Protect, and serum visions to dig for the combo. Now that I think about it, Esper Charm seems really good as an endstep turn three play to dig for pieces.
If you like jar with your list, try out Far // Away. It'll make you fall in love with BiaJ. Including it in my list means that I can consistently get huge value plays off of jars and Expertises. Not to mention far // Away is actually a good card against a lot of decks (Infect, Bant Eldrazi, etc). Haven't played enough to know for sure, but just intuitively, BiaJ seems like a power card in Control-v-Control matchups.
Never tried Logic Knot or Think Twice, how do they perform? Can't afford Snaps and Cryptics.
Another thing to mention is that my list is built to fight against Bant Eldrazi, which is my main playtester.
To build on my old list, im taking out the Yahenni's Expertise for another Sram's Expertise for a more consistent combo. It's also just a good card by itself.
I've also found that Brain in a Jar, while mainly in the deck for combo purposes, is actually very good for saving Mana later in the game and casting your sorcery spells at instant speed. It feels really good to Inquisition your opponent on their upkeep, or verdict their stuff away before combat.
Im also seriously considering Hour of Reckoning as a 1 or 2 of. Probably only as a one. It's actually extremely convenient. If you resolve Beck // Call off of Sram's Expertise, you draw four cards to dig for it, then you have the perfect amount of creatures to fully convoke it. They can't attack the first turn anyway, so it's not like you're missing out unless they have a haste threat. I don't know, but it seems like a possibly insane card in the list. It also seems like it could just be a "win more" card, butI've gotten into situations where that play would save me. It seems like a good play against: Affinity, Bant Eldrazi, Jund, Death's Shadow, Knightfall, Abzan Company, Merfolk, Dredge, Infect, Eldrazi and Taxes, Elves. You name it. Bolded matchups where it's conceivable that your opponent would just kill you next turn anyway, either by forcing chump blocks or not even caring about your blockers.
I think you're overthinking things too much. More often than not, one resolved Beck // Call can end the game. If anything, I would toss in 4 Bitterblossom or go with a Thopter Foundry + Sword of the Meek gameplan to not only have more alternative ways to win, but keep you alive against goyfs while you dig out answers.
And I actually like Azban more than Esper for this archetype.
Esper is better at making Brain in a Jar relevant, and green doesn't have too many spells worth investing in. Abrupt Decay, Maelstrom Pulse at most, but Esper has better alternatives.
I agree I might be over thinking this, but Ive been in scenarios where resolving Beck // Call just isn't enough to win. Hour of Reckoning just seems too convenient in some matchups to ignore.
To build on my old list, im taking out the Yahenni's Expertise for another Sram's Expertise for a more consistent combo. It's also just a good card by itself.
I've also found that Brain in a Jar, while mainly in the deck for combo purposes, is actually very good for saving Mana later in the game and casting your sorcery spells at instant speed. It feels really good to Inquisition your opponent on their upkeep, or verdict their stuff away before combat.
Im also seriously considering Hour of Reckoning as a 1 or 2 of. Probably only as a one. It's actually extremely convenient. If you resolve Beck // Call off of Sram's Expertise, you draw four cards to dig for it, then you have the perfect amount of creatures to fully convoke it. They can't attack the first turn anyway, so it's not like you're missing out unless they have a haste threat. I don't know, but it seems like a possibly insane card in the list. It also seems like it could just be a "win more" card, butI've gotten into situations where that play would save me. It seems like a good play against: Affinity, Bant Eldrazi, Jund, Death's Shadow, Knightfall, Abzan Company, Merfolk, Dredge, Infect, Eldrazi and Taxes, Elves. You name it. Bolded matchups where it's conceivable that your opponent would just kill you next turn anyway, either by forcing chump blocks or not even caring about your blockers.
now it's just green that needs a 1-mana effective instant interaction for modern (the other being Path to Exile, Vapor Snag, Lightning Bolt and Fatal Push to some extent). You could argue there is prey upon (lol) but it is not a standalone card.
What could that card be?
Here's what I propose:
Primal DefianceG
Instant
Destroy target creature.
Its controller reveals the card on top of his library. If it is a creature, he or she puts it in hand, otherwise on the bottom of his/her library.
I'm sorry, but that's just way too powerful. Push kills 2 cmc creatures for G, and then only 4 cmc with revolt. That's just straight up *any* creature for G, with a Goblin Guide-esque drawback. Green doesn't have kill spells.
I think control is on the cusp in modern again. I want something like:
Decent 3 mana counterspell 1UU
Instant
Counter target spell, then look at the top card of your library. If it's a land, put it on the battlefield tapped.
I feel like that wouldn't be too powerful for standard, but would be powerful enough to see some play in modern.
Also something simple like:
Decent Restock Spell 2U
Instant
Scry 1, then draw a card. You may return target card from your graveyard to your hand.
Or
Restock 3UU
Instant
Draw 3 cards.
Restock costs 2 less during your opponent's end step if they have not cast a spell this turn.
or even
Secret Intelligence UU
Instant
Counter Target spell with CMC 2 or less
Return a land you control to your hand: Instead counter target spell
Redtwister how does that deck perform? My own experience with spirits is that theyir 2 drop creatures does not threat the oponent enough. Your list has 4 mimic, 4 drogskoll and 2 pahntasmal image. Tharlia probably also helps.
I agree with you on that point. I'm really hoping for a flash 2 Mana spirit that's good on its own with an Aggressive p/t from Amonkhet. Any card like that would help spirits immensely. Another good flash three drop might be good as well. If we get those two cards, not only could vial spirits be powerful, but Non-Vial spirits would be more justified. You are wouldn't have to rely on Vial as much as we do currently.
I think Bring to Light Plays better in a tap out style tokens list better than in a control list. Taking that into mind, here's my changes.
4 Bring to Light
4 Beck // Call
3 Sram's Expertise
3 Brain in a Jar
2 Fatal Push
3 Path to Exile
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
Toolbox:
1 Tamiyo, Field Researcher
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1 Down // Dirty
4 Lingering Souls
4 Pentad Prism
4 Serum Visions
This list has a lot of late game potential.
Tamiyo is super good in as a card advantage engine, or a way to keep your opponent's threats in check. I think Down // Dirty is a very powerful card, I just don't think this list is it's correct home. It seems a little too durdly to make an impact in this list, especially because you can't fetch it out and cast both halves with BtL.
I really like your list and how you've taken a different spin on the idea. What you do about Release making you sac your Jar. Do you often have servo tokens to sacrifice? Aside from that it seems really sweet.
I'm thinking of adding one Research // Development to the main in the witch list so I can take advantage of Bring to Light as a tutor. I'll fill the sideboard with silver bullets for killing certain decks.
Here's what I'm thinking for my silver bullets:
Alive // Well for aggro decks. It's also a great card regardless with Jar. Also pretty sure it gains you 8 life with Sram's Expertise. Only reason it's not in the main is because its it broken like Beck // Call.
Memoricide for any combo deck. Also for any card that is too good against us.
Eidolon of Rhetoric is pretty self explanatory.
Yahenni's Expertise for to replace Sram's in certain matchups.
Timely Reinforcements for aggressive matchups.
Creeping Corrosion for Affinity or Lantern control.
Yahenni's Expertise hasnt seen enough play to be a worry for us.
If you're saying you wouldn't want to trade a card for your opponent playing a threat, Vapor Snag contradicts. Vapor Snag isn't a solution, it's a delay to a problem. Just like remand. Fatal Push solves problems. Remand is played because not only does it delay threats and slow down tap out decks, it also replaces itself.
4 Bring to Light
3 Sram's Expertise
2 Brain in a Jar
4 Beck // Call
3 Down // Dirty
4 Pentad Prism
Draw/Filter:
4 Serum Visions
2 Esper Charm
Removal:
2 Fatal Push
3 Path to Exils
2 Supreme Verdict
3 Remand
2 Spell Snare
Have no idea what to do about the manabase. The green splash is so minimal it's basically a three color deck though.
I think I'll go for something like this:
4 Polluted Delta
2 Windswept Heath
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Temple Garden
1 Watery Grave
1 Godless Shrine
2 Glacial Fortress
1 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Shambling Vent
1 Plains
1 Island
I can definitely see including Intangible Virtue in my list. It actually seems very powerful, because it does two things we want to accomplish with our tokens.
One, we want to end the game quickly. doubling the token size makes a massive difference, and it shortens the clock considerably.
Two, it makes us less vulnerable to ground threats. One of my problems in testing is I can't attack because the backswing from my opponent will just kill me. Intangible Virtue completely solves that problem while also being a more reliable card than Hour of Reckoning.
Sorin is extremely hard to deal with in my experience. I've played games where a resolved Sorin and a Shambling Vent bring my opponent back from the Dead. I'll try him out.
Spell Pierce does seem really good at the moment.
Far // Away seems good when Infect or Bant Eldrazi reach the top.
Want to note that GoST is a really good sideboard option against control opponents. It can really catch them off guard. It also helps in a lot of our bad matchups like Tron, Storm, and other unfair decks.
Hey, another idea for a list is Sultai.
Sultai could be a good list for Ancestral Visions and down dirty for an attrition engine.
And if we're getting super crazy, we could build a four color list for bring to light.
I can see a Witch (UBWG) list being fun. Trying to take advantage of Bring to light, down dirty, ancestral visions, and Beck Call all in one list.
Thanks for posting. I might be wrong on the Down // Dirty front. I was basing it off of Eternal Witness working with Expertises, but now that I think about it, it shouldn't work since E wit triggers when it enters. Dang, thought something good was going on there. Still though, a fuzed Down Dirty plus 3 1/1s or wiping the board is almost always enough to get you back in a hard game.
That list definitely looks strong. I'm just afraid of it going too far into the combo plan. Ancestral visions is a great card advantage engine, just not sure if it's redundant with Beck // Call in the deck. I think I'd probably rather Fuse Far // Away or some other card that takes the pressure off. I can see playing it in a deck with Yahenni's Expertise, but then the token plan seems counterintuitive.
Can you post the token list for reference? Don't have SCG premium.
There's a lot of power behind Kari Zev's Expertise into smallpox. Being able to take control of a creature and then sac it is awesome. Be careful using it though, Yahenni's or Sram's is much better in a vacuum. If you or your opponent doesn't control a creature you can't cast it without it fizzling. The latter two, while more expensive, are also more reliable. If you want to run Kari Zev's I would in the sideboard, or you can alter your list to include more creatures so you can be more consistent.
Having the ability to hardcast Call is pretty important in my opinion. It adds some inevitability to the deck. Lingering Souls can be played in esper as well, It's not exclusive to abzan. In fact, I have a playset in the sideboard. If we play abzan or bant, I can see playing cantrip creatures to take advantage of beck.
Here's an idea for a bant list:
3 Restoration Angel
3 Eternal Witness
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Wall of Omens
4 Sram's Expertise
2 Brain in a Jar
4 Beck // Call
Other:
4 Serum Visions
4 Path to Exile
2 Alive // Well
1 Supply // Demand
I can also see turning that list into an Intruder Alarm deck.
Here's an idea for an abzan list. In my opinion, the two big assets to playing abzan are being able to loop Eternal Witness with Sram's Expertise, and Down // Dirty
4 Bird of Paradise
4 Elvish Visionary
3 Eternal Witness
2 Restoration Angel
4 Sram's Expertise
2 Brain in a Jar
4 Beck // Call
Removal:
2 Fatal Push
3 Path to Exile
3 Down // Dirty
2 Alive // Well
Abzan seems to have the most variety of fuse cards.
The fuse cards worth considering.
Alive // Well seems very strong. Not only does it let us gain a ton of life if needed, it also gets us a 3/3 for the first jar activation.
Wear // Tear would be okay if we were in those colors. Generally you bring it in for one of its modes, not both, so its not great.
Supply // Demand is better than it looks. It triggers beck with it's Supply mode as much as you'd like. It also means you can cast demand off of jar's second activation because supply is 2 mana. Demand searches for Beck // Call, thats why you'd want it. If you're going all in in cantrip to victory then this is a card you'll want to run.
Down // Dirty seems like a great attrition engine. Imagine casing this off of Sram's Expertise or Yahenni's Expertise. You either get to stall the board or wipe the board, then you make your opponent discard two, and you can get back any card, or the expertise you just cast. Needs testing, but seems very powerful to me.
Pure // Simple Bogles hate.
Ready // Willing is great for dealing with boardwipes, or against creature heavy aggro decks where deathtouch and lifelink make it impossible for your opponents to get anything done. I especially like this as a combat trick with vial. You cast both sides, get to untap your creatures, and give them indestructible, lifelink and deathtouch. That's just nasty.
Profit // Loss just play zealous persecution.
Crime // Punishment is really interesting. You can cast Crime on vial's second activation , or off a expertise, which might be good in a Thoughtseize shell. What's interesting though is I'm pretty sure you can cast punishment for 0 off of jar or Expertise, wiping the board of 0 drops and tokens. Helps against lingering souls. Super secret affinity hate.
Hit // Run seems like a good finisher. You'd have to play either Birds of Paradise or jund colors to make it good though.
Trial // Error doesn't do enough in esper to warrant an inclusion.
Breaking // Entering will make us into an all in combo deck. Check out this article if you want to go down that road.
Part of what makes Brain and the Expertises so effective is they can fuse the cards. It becomes much less powerful if you can't. Both of the effects seem pretty mediocre in the shell. Not to say it doesn't warrant testing, I could be completely wrong. My gut tells me it doesn't do enough for the deck.
Glad to see someone as excited as I am about the playability of the combo.
A few things to mention:
One, I can see your list is a very Esper controlish list, with lots of late game. My list is optimized to achieve the combo as fast as possible, and it can consistently fire it off turn four. It's really riding on the combo. Ive thrown in Inquisitions to Protect, and serum visions to dig for the combo. Now that I think about it, Esper Charm seems really good as an endstep turn three play to dig for pieces.
If you like jar with your list, try out Far // Away. It'll make you fall in love with BiaJ. Including it in my list means that I can consistently get huge value plays off of jars and Expertises. Not to mention far // Away is actually a good card against a lot of decks (Infect, Bant Eldrazi, etc). Haven't played enough to know for sure, but just intuitively, BiaJ seems like a power card in Control-v-Control matchups.
Never tried Logic Knot or Think Twice, how do they perform? Can't afford Snaps and Cryptics.
Another thing to mention is that my list is built to fight against Bant Eldrazi, which is my main playtester.
Esper is better at making Brain in a Jar relevant, and green doesn't have too many spells worth investing in. Abrupt Decay, Maelstrom Pulse at most, but Esper has better alternatives.
I agree I might be over thinking this, but Ive been in scenarios where resolving Beck // Call just isn't enough to win. Hour of Reckoning just seems too convenient in some matchups to ignore.
I've also found that Brain in a Jar, while mainly in the deck for combo purposes, is actually very good for saving Mana later in the game and casting your sorcery spells at instant speed. It feels really good to Inquisition your opponent on their upkeep, or verdict their stuff away before combat.
Im also seriously considering Hour of Reckoning as a 1 or 2 of. Probably only as a one. It's actually extremely convenient. If you resolve Beck // Call off of Sram's Expertise, you draw four cards to dig for it, then you have the perfect amount of creatures to fully convoke it. They can't attack the first turn anyway, so it's not like you're missing out unless they have a haste threat. I don't know, but it seems like a possibly insane card in the list. It also seems like it could just be a "win more" card, butI've gotten into situations where that play would save me. It seems like a good play against: Affinity, Bant Eldrazi, Jund, Death's Shadow, Knightfall, Abzan Company, Merfolk, Dredge, Infect, Eldrazi and Taxes, Elves. You name it. Bolded matchups where it's conceivable that your opponent would just kill you next turn anyway, either by forcing chump blocks or not even caring about your blockers.
Your three Mana Counterspell should be Simic.
I agree with you on that point. I'm really hoping for a flash 2 Mana spirit that's good on its own with an Aggressive p/t from Amonkhet. Any card like that would help spirits immensely. Another good flash three drop might be good as well. If we get those two cards, not only could vial spirits be powerful, but Non-Vial spirits would be more justified. You are wouldn't have to rely on Vial as much as we do currently.