I actually just started playing this deck last weekend after playing Jund for three years, so the switch was easy. Even though most people are on Grixis, this deck is still very powerful. This version seems a lot more flexible with how a person wants to play it, also.
Random non-traditional, non-Traverse Abzan decks have been on the rise locally for me so I have already brought back Night of Souls' Betrayal in my sideboard. I had a lot of dead space in my sideboard anyway since I'm never quite sure what matches I want to use those slots for. Plus, Fulminator Mage seems to really suck.
Power creep has been in Modern for some time in my opinion. Eldrazi Winter kinda answered that question for us I think.
I was running Night of Soul's Betrayal in my traditional Jund list's sideboard as well. I wonder if there is a creature that can accomplish a similar task that way when you bring it in, it can be tutored for with Traverse.
Sulfur Elemental could do the trick, specifically against souls.
Hey everyone, I wanted to give a small report on Vegas but stayed and enjoyed the city for a couple extra days so I'm just now getting to it. This is the list that I registered.
I 4-0'd the first Last Chance Trial I joined and 3-1'd in one of Friday's larger Modern side events. These were the only side events I played in before the main event. Matchups were as follows:
Saturday started out pretty rough for me, round 3 was against Burn and he had god hands. I specifically remember T1 suspend Rift Bolt, T2 Eidolon, T3 suspend Rift Bolt and end step Boros Charm, upkeep Rift Bolt, main phase Bolt - Bolt - Lava Spike, ouch. Round 4 was against Amulet Titan, game 1 went so long he had 2 Titan's in play and no more lands in his deck, I Pulsed them away and had lethal on my next turn, he rips Summoner's Pact off the top. Game 2 the deck just did its thing, 2-2. I'm already a little bummed and then round 5, GW Tron. I had been there since Wednesday and this was literally the first non-Eldrazi Tron player I had seen. I got Tron'd hard. There was a point where Raging Ravine was about to kill him and he topdecked his 3rd Tron piece and kind of looked at me like he felt bad, haha. I didn't have high expectations for that round anyways, 2-3. I was able to sweep the next 4 rounds and squeak into Day 2 at 6-3, they were Elves, Burn, Grixis Shadow, and Living End. This was my first GP so I was pretty excited at this point just to see Day 2. My Sunday matchups were Grixis Shadow, Jund, Esper Shadow, Grixis Shadow, Storm, and Eldrazi Tron. I finished the tournament at 8-7, meh.
One thing that still sticks out to me is that almost all of my losses were extremely close games. The only times I got blown out were round 3 against Burn, round 5 against GW Tron, and round 14 against Storm. Storm's a great matchup for us but I mulled to 5 both games and the top of my deck wasn't being very kind to me. The MVP of the weekend was Liliana of the Veil. She was so good in almost all of my matches and is a serious issue for the Shadow decks to handle. Looking back at my list now, I think I will go ahead and put the 3rd Terminate in the main and throw a Lightning Bolt in the side. I still like Bolt as an efficient removal spell for the small creature decks but I found myself boarding in the 3rd Terminate a lot of the time. I see that you guys are discussing how to board for the Grixis Shadow matchup so here's what I did, I also went 4-1 against the deck last weekend.
Out - 2 Lightning Bolt, 4 Inquisition of Kozilek
In - 3 Nihil Spellbomb, Terminate, 2 Kitchen Finks
I usually popped Spellbomb as a T2 or T3 tempo play to shut off the delve fatty in their hand and that seemed to workout really well. If they ever felt aggressive and tapped out to get one out T4 or T5 then they got punished by Lili, she is such a beating in this matchup. I like Thoughtseize in this matchup but against a deck that can get really aggressive so early, I want answers and my own threats more than the IoK's.
Full Weekend Match Summary:
LCT
RW Prison W
Burn W
Grixis Shadow W
RW Prison W
Side Event
Burn W
Mardu Madcap L
Grixis Shadow W
Burn W
Main Event Day 1
Bye
Bye
Burn L
Amulet Titan L
GW Tron L
Elves W
Burn W
Grixis Shadow W
Living End W
Main Event Day 2
Grixis Shadow L
Jund W
Esper Shadow L
Grixis Shadow W
Storm L
Eldrazi Tron L
I still think Jund is a great deck. Like I said before, so many of my losses were so incredibly close. I'll close out with one last thing. Some of you know that I have been one of the people testing with Hazoret and reporting positive results, so I really wanted to have at least one in my mainboard at Vegas. Take this how you want to, it is purely what happened and has nothing to do with my personal opinion. Of all the rounds I played, including the LCT and side event, I did not lose a single game when my 1-of Hazoret resolved.
I don't expect much to change, if anything, before next weekend. I'll be arriving in Vegas on Wednesday and will be playing in the Thursday/Friday Modern events to get a feel for what will be the most heavily represented decks. Having 23 lands and 7 discard spells main is a personal preference. My overall CMC in the 75 is a little lower than usual.
I have also tested with Hazoret and like her a lot. I was playing with two but have moved to one Olivia mainboard. One Hazoret and one Olivia will be my 4-drops of choice at GP Vegas. Grim Lavamancer is great with Ooze because it can continue to take out an opponents creatures and give Ooze more fuel.
There isn't really a consensus yet, some people have tested with them and some people have not. I've been testing with two Hazoret and I like them, but I'm thinking of going down to one. I haven't tested with Glorybringer but that's only because I'm a fan of an overall lower average CMC in the 75.
Cedric has been lightheartedly giving Reid a bad time for playing Jund this weekend but he was correct when he said that even if Jund isn't the best deck right now, an excellent pilot can be very successful with it.
I always wanted to try Olivia MB and advocated for it in the past, but most seemed to be against it, so it never happened for me to actually test her, sadly enough.
Play the deck how you want to play it, don't let others decide for you. I've been playing the deck with Hazoret and won my weekly Modern even last week and was the only undefeated after Swiss at a Vegas GPT yesterday. The reality of Jund is that no matter what 4-drops or flex creatures we decide to play with, the deck will always be powerful.
I would like to discuss the landbase:
4 Blackcleave of 2 Blackcleave 2 Blooming Marsh?
My preference goes to the split. I am testing it right now.
How does all fair with the 1-off 5 drop in the main? I am stil on FlyingDelver' list. Stil on 24 land. Going to test next week some specific matchups.
Anyone any tips on a board?
The first cards I include are 3 Blood Moon. I always liked the free wins and the fear of the opponents heen they have seen one. Next to that I never liked played Fullies in Jund. Thoughts?
As far as the fastlands are concerned, I think it boils down to whether or not you are playing Lightning Bolt and how many, if you are playing it. When I tried out a boltless list with four Fatal Push I went to the 2/2 split and it seemed fine. I would probably say that if you are on at least three Bolts, it would be better to have that T1 pain-free land that can work with discard, Bolt, and Push and I'd go with a minimum of 3 Cliffs.
I was able to get some testing in tonight and this is what I ran. I threw the sideboard together but I think I would prefer to have a 2nd Damnation over the 2nd Kitchen Finks. Maybe even one or two more changes.
The main purpose of the testing was to get a feel for Hazoret, having a slightly overall lower average CMC to be able to empty my hand a little easier in the instance that I have Hazoret in hand and want to slam and go to town ASAP, and also to see how eight MD discard felt. I think Scavenging Ooze is well positioned right now so I'm not willing to drop them like some of the recent lists that include Glorybringer. My friend was on Abzan Company with the new Vizier of Remedies combo.
Preboard 2-2
Postboard 4-0
Out:
4 Iok
4 LotV
1 TS
In:
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Collective Brutality
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Damnation
I'm obviously heavily favored postboard with everything I brought in so the 4-0 result wasn't a huge surprise. From the eight games, I was fortunate enough to have Hazoret in hand during multiple situations. One thing I really liked about this list was that I was, on multiple occasions, I was able to go T1 discard, T2 discard, T3 LotV, which is going to be great for disrupting your opponent's game plan no matter what deck they are playing. Hazoret was always most effective when I was able to T3 LotV, making it easier to be down to one card or less for attacking/blocking. The amount of pressure it put on my opponent was also very high, coupled with removal it basically gave them one turn to combo off before they were forced to chump block with combo pieces or risk a bolt in hand coupled with an activation for lethal. The reach was also relevant, I was able to win on a gummed up board with a couple activations.
Previously in the thread, I know there were some people voicing concerns about how Hazoret plays with Bob so I'll address what I experienced. The times I was able to stick Bob, I was drawing so many cards that having a dead Hazoret in my hand was not even a concern, I just won those games on sheer card advantage. Or maybe I was able to draw two or three cards before they found removal, then I just wasn't able to play Hazoret on T4 but as long as I had extra interaction or creatures then I wasn't in a hurry because Goyf was basically playing the same role as the early beater or blocker.
My overall initial impression is that Hazoret is a 4-drop that will be effective much more than it is ineffective, solidly cementing a place in my personal toolbox of Jund 4-drops. It has real strength in game one of any match-up, which is not true for all of our 4-drops. I think most Jund players have switched to DS because of the immense pressure Shadow puts on opponents and I think this card does somewhat of the same, without being as large as Shadow but being much more resilient to removal. My opponent boarded in PtE but was never able to keep one in hand with my disruption before I ever cast Hazoret. I will continue to do more testing this week, specifically against Eldrazi Tron and Burn. I would encourage anyone who has not tested with Hazoret to try it out, it allows us to be slightly more threatening while continuing to play our traditional style.
Hey everybody, first time poster long time lurker, been off jund for a while to play abzan and with arrival of some new additions it has made me keen to lace up old faithful again. Looking forward to some constructive discussion and playtesting. Feels good to be back.
Welcome back! What does your current build look like?
@Godrik1374 Thanks for the report and congrats on your finish! My 2 copies of Hazoret are in the mail and I'm excited to be testing with them in the next week. I had a long discussion about Hazoret with my buddies at weekly Modern last night and I'm strongly considering playing them at Vegas, pending testing. Your reports are exciting though and I'm looking forward to something new to the deck that many won't necessarily be expecting. I like how aggressive it can be.
You are still not replying to my counterpoints. If I was exerting any personal meta bias into my logic then I'd be here convincing everyone to drop all their discard for value cards. I can assure you that you will find none of that in my comment history. I'm not sure where my bias is? I've participated in discussion on Hazoret and I never said it was amazing, just that it could be a good Jund 4-drop, while including multiple scenarios and situations where it could be used with versatility, so I'm confused about your accusation of my bias. I've also stated multiple times to be open minded and logical, rather than theoretical and closed minded. Those are not personal attacks and you shouldn't be taking them that way.
I will be seeing myself out of this unproductive discussion now.
Sulfur Elemental could do the trick, specifically against souls.
1 Blooming Marsh
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
3 Raging Ravine
2 Swamp
1 Forest
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Scavenging Ooze
1 Hazoret the Fervent
1 Olivia Voldaren
3 Thoughtseize
2 Lightning Bolt
4 Fatal Push
2 Terminate
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Kolaghan's Command
2 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Grim Lavamancer
2 Collective Brutality
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Terminate
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Fulminator Mage
1 Damnation
I 4-0'd the first Last Chance Trial I joined and 3-1'd in one of Friday's larger Modern side events. These were the only side events I played in before the main event. Matchups were as follows:
LCT - RW Prison, Burn, Grixis Shadow, RW Prison
Side event - Burn, Mardu Madcap Experiment (lost), Grixis Shadow, Burn
Saturday started out pretty rough for me, round 3 was against Burn and he had god hands. I specifically remember T1 suspend Rift Bolt, T2 Eidolon, T3 suspend Rift Bolt and end step Boros Charm, upkeep Rift Bolt, main phase Bolt - Bolt - Lava Spike, ouch. Round 4 was against Amulet Titan, game 1 went so long he had 2 Titan's in play and no more lands in his deck, I Pulsed them away and had lethal on my next turn, he rips Summoner's Pact off the top. Game 2 the deck just did its thing, 2-2. I'm already a little bummed and then round 5, GW Tron. I had been there since Wednesday and this was literally the first non-Eldrazi Tron player I had seen. I got Tron'd hard. There was a point where Raging Ravine was about to kill him and he topdecked his 3rd Tron piece and kind of looked at me like he felt bad, haha. I didn't have high expectations for that round anyways, 2-3. I was able to sweep the next 4 rounds and squeak into Day 2 at 6-3, they were Elves, Burn, Grixis Shadow, and Living End. This was my first GP so I was pretty excited at this point just to see Day 2. My Sunday matchups were Grixis Shadow, Jund, Esper Shadow, Grixis Shadow, Storm, and Eldrazi Tron. I finished the tournament at 8-7, meh.
One thing that still sticks out to me is that almost all of my losses were extremely close games. The only times I got blown out were round 3 against Burn, round 5 against GW Tron, and round 14 against Storm. Storm's a great matchup for us but I mulled to 5 both games and the top of my deck wasn't being very kind to me. The MVP of the weekend was Liliana of the Veil. She was so good in almost all of my matches and is a serious issue for the Shadow decks to handle. Looking back at my list now, I think I will go ahead and put the 3rd Terminate in the main and throw a Lightning Bolt in the side. I still like Bolt as an efficient removal spell for the small creature decks but I found myself boarding in the 3rd Terminate a lot of the time. I see that you guys are discussing how to board for the Grixis Shadow matchup so here's what I did, I also went 4-1 against the deck last weekend.
Out - 2 Lightning Bolt, 4 Inquisition of Kozilek
In - 3 Nihil Spellbomb, Terminate, 2 Kitchen Finks
I usually popped Spellbomb as a T2 or T3 tempo play to shut off the delve fatty in their hand and that seemed to workout really well. If they ever felt aggressive and tapped out to get one out T4 or T5 then they got punished by Lili, she is such a beating in this matchup. I like Thoughtseize in this matchup but against a deck that can get really aggressive so early, I want answers and my own threats more than the IoK's.
Full Weekend Match Summary:
LCT
RW Prison W
Burn W
Grixis Shadow W
RW Prison W
Side Event
Burn W
Mardu Madcap L
Grixis Shadow W
Burn W
Main Event Day 1
Bye
Bye
Burn L
Amulet Titan L
GW Tron L
Elves W
Burn W
Grixis Shadow W
Living End W
Main Event Day 2
Grixis Shadow L
Jund W
Esper Shadow L
Grixis Shadow W
Storm L
Eldrazi Tron L
I still think Jund is a great deck. Like I said before, so many of my losses were so incredibly close. I'll close out with one last thing. Some of you know that I have been one of the people testing with Hazoret and reporting positive results, so I really wanted to have at least one in my mainboard at Vegas. Take this how you want to, it is purely what happened and has nothing to do with my personal opinion. Of all the rounds I played, including the LCT and side event, I did not lose a single game when my 1-of Hazoret resolved.
1 Blooming Marsh
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
3 Raging Ravine
2 Swamp
1 Forest
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Scavenging Ooze
1 Hazoret the Fervent
1 Olivia Voldaren
3 Thoughtseize
2 Lightning Bolt
4 Fatal Push
2 Terminate
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Kolaghan's Command
2 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Grim Lavamancer
2 Collective Brutality
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Fulminator Mage
1 Damnation
I don't expect much to change, if anything, before next weekend. I'll be arriving in Vegas on Wednesday and will be playing in the Thursday/Friday Modern events to get a feel for what will be the most heavily represented decks. Having 23 lands and 7 discard spells main is a personal preference. My overall CMC in the 75 is a little lower than usual.
There isn't really a consensus yet, some people have tested with them and some people have not. I've been testing with two Hazoret and I like them, but I'm thinking of going down to one. I haven't tested with Glorybringer but that's only because I'm a fan of an overall lower average CMC in the 75.
Play the deck how you want to play it, don't let others decide for you. I've been playing the deck with Hazoret and won my weekly Modern even last week and was the only undefeated after Swiss at a Vegas GPT yesterday. The reality of Jund is that no matter what 4-drops or flex creatures we decide to play with, the deck will always be powerful.
Edit: 9-0 day 1!
As far as the fastlands are concerned, I think it boils down to whether or not you are playing Lightning Bolt and how many, if you are playing it. When I tried out a boltless list with four Fatal Push I went to the 2/2 split and it seemed fine. I would probably say that if you are on at least three Bolts, it would be better to have that T1 pain-free land that can work with discard, Bolt, and Push and I'd go with a minimum of 3 Cliffs.
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Hazoret the Fervent
Instants and Sorceries
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Thoughtseize
3 Fatal Push
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Terminate
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Liliana of the Veil
Lands
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blooming Marsh
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
3 Raging Ravine
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Collective Brutality
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Fulminator Mage
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Damnation
The main purpose of the testing was to get a feel for Hazoret, having a slightly overall lower average CMC to be able to empty my hand a little easier in the instance that I have Hazoret in hand and want to slam and go to town ASAP, and also to see how eight MD discard felt. I think Scavenging Ooze is well positioned right now so I'm not willing to drop them like some of the recent lists that include Glorybringer. My friend was on Abzan Company with the new Vizier of Remedies combo.
Preboard 2-2
Postboard 4-0
Out:
4 Iok
4 LotV
1 TS
In:
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Collective Brutality
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Damnation
I'm obviously heavily favored postboard with everything I brought in so the 4-0 result wasn't a huge surprise. From the eight games, I was fortunate enough to have Hazoret in hand during multiple situations. One thing I really liked about this list was that I was, on multiple occasions, I was able to go T1 discard, T2 discard, T3 LotV, which is going to be great for disrupting your opponent's game plan no matter what deck they are playing. Hazoret was always most effective when I was able to T3 LotV, making it easier to be down to one card or less for attacking/blocking. The amount of pressure it put on my opponent was also very high, coupled with removal it basically gave them one turn to combo off before they were forced to chump block with combo pieces or risk a bolt in hand coupled with an activation for lethal. The reach was also relevant, I was able to win on a gummed up board with a couple activations.
Previously in the thread, I know there were some people voicing concerns about how Hazoret plays with Bob so I'll address what I experienced. The times I was able to stick Bob, I was drawing so many cards that having a dead Hazoret in my hand was not even a concern, I just won those games on sheer card advantage. Or maybe I was able to draw two or three cards before they found removal, then I just wasn't able to play Hazoret on T4 but as long as I had extra interaction or creatures then I wasn't in a hurry because Goyf was basically playing the same role as the early beater or blocker.
My overall initial impression is that Hazoret is a 4-drop that will be effective much more than it is ineffective, solidly cementing a place in my personal toolbox of Jund 4-drops. It has real strength in game one of any match-up, which is not true for all of our 4-drops. I think most Jund players have switched to DS because of the immense pressure Shadow puts on opponents and I think this card does somewhat of the same, without being as large as Shadow but being much more resilient to removal. My opponent boarded in PtE but was never able to keep one in hand with my disruption before I ever cast Hazoret. I will continue to do more testing this week, specifically against Eldrazi Tron and Burn. I would encourage anyone who has not tested with Hazoret to try it out, it allows us to be slightly more threatening while continuing to play our traditional style.
Welcome back! What does your current build look like?
Here is another list to discuss, it had 3 Hazoret and a closer to normal average CMC, with a sideboard that isn't as different as Nunomgg's.
I will be seeing myself out of this unproductive discussion now.