M4 vs Merfolk L 1-2
+2 Path, +1 Stony (on the play), +2 Finks, +1 Selfless
-1 Visionary, -1 Ezuri, -1 Devoted, -3 Nettle
I made some questionable sideboarding here. To be fair, I was really rusty and was there to just get a feel of the deck.
Notes:
I was drawing Eternal Witness way more than usual. I bought an FNM foil version so maybe that's a factor. LOL
There were times when Ezuri was clogged in my hand. Sometimes it's good because I can keep casting one until my opponent runs out of removal
Kitchen Finks is an overrated card. Or maybe I was wrong to put them in some of my match-ups.
My sideboard was almost an exact copy of Ross Merriam's when he wrote that SCG article (http://www.starcitygames.com/article/35649_The-Excellent-Return-Of-Elves.html)
The deck has a steeper learning curve compared to other lists. It relies more on the board to win so you should know whether the risks of overcommitting is worth it. Sadly, I'm not yet good at this.
I want more Path to Exiles in the sideboard.
Aven Mindcensor is just too slow.
With these in mind, I tuned my list to shift to a more flexible one. Here's what I'm gonna run next:
I wanted Ooze as life gain instead of Finks since it can be put in the 60. I wanted to free up some of my SB and those were the easiest cuts. I also removed the Leads to make way for more Paths since I think that there are a lot of aggro decks than control in my local meta. Swapped Nykthos for Westvale as it has more impact. Also wins vs board stalls. Also, this list is for may local LGS. If I were to go to a large tournament right now, I would still probably run my first list.
Thanks man. I'll draw another list and see how it goes. Although, I think I'm overboarding vs Affinity. Thinking of shaving that Fracturing Gust instead of the PTEs as they are very flexible. They can go vs most go big or go wide strategies and help me in games where I do not draw the combo or my opponent just kills everything and drops a big bomb. Haven't really tested much though. Will keep posting my results here.
I'd like to ask your opinions on my sideboard. I'm gonna run Vizier Elves, pretty stock list. EWit main, 4 Ezuris. Here's what I'm expecting:
Lots of:
Death's Shadow
E-Tron
Burn
Abzan
Some:
Affinity
Storm
Titanshift
UWx control
Ad Naus
A bit of:
Elves
Living End
8-rack
Other Tron
Lantern Control
Here's what I'm thinking of:
3 Path to exile
1 Stony Silence
1 RIP
2 Lead the Stampede
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Selfless Spirit
1 Rec Sage
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Chameleon Colossus
1 Fracturing Gust
I want to stick a couple of Kitchen Finks but I can't find the space for them. Also, thinking of removing Gust for a 2nd Colossus. What do you guys think?
Fairly new to Elves, running the GB Shaman build...
I have a few questions:
1. CoCo - do I want to use it pre-combat so I know how much mana I have to play with (if I hit Ezuri, Renegade Leader for example), or do I want to do it after blocks but before damage to maximise the chance of Elvish Archdruid and/or Shaman of the Pack?? Or is my opponent's End Step always the best time if possible?
2. Opinions on Throne of the God-Pharaoh? I've played against it and it did good work, I've seen a few lists run 1 or 2 of them as an alt win-con as it gets around Ensnaring Bridge too.
1. There's really no absolute answer on this. It all dependes on your match-up and how the board looks like.
Vs control and match-ups with board wipe (i.e jeskai control) , you generally want to wait for a wipe, float the mana, then cast it at the end of that phase. You'd also wanna wait until s/he taps out to avoid being countered. I like to keep around 4 power on board and reserve my coco as a 2nd/3rd wave
Vs aggro/combo/go big, you'll want to cast it asap since you wanna race and/or block
Vs grindy match-ups with lots of removal (ie jund and abzan), game 1 they probably dont have a board wipe so you'd wanna throw out everything you can. G2/3 changes dramatically aa they probably bring im damnations, wraths and such so you adjust accordingly.
2. Thrones is a great card, it's up to your taste on whether you find it good enough to dilute your coco plan or cut chords/leads for. They work great with shaman and heritage druids though. Great vs grinding and control.
3.Westvale is great in a GB shell. As M4Bear said, it wins you games you otherwise wouldn't have. In a GW shell, the mana produced by Nykthos is just better as your plan B is overruning with Ezuri. I like running Itlimoc as a 1-of. Great topdeck and just busted when your hand can abuse it. Imagine this:
T1 dork, t2 land drop into heritage and Dwynen's Elite into Itlimoc, end turn flip into coco. Thia would probably lead to some turn 2 scoops on the other end.
I'm not saying that I'm the best player but I've had a lot of experience on the deck so I hope this helps.
I would have to agree with MarcWizard here. You need a critical number of 1-drops for possible t2 hand-emptying plays. If only there was an elf that spews an elf token when it dies.
Tried to brew an Abzan list with the combo. The result was terrible. I had to trim a lot of cards to fit in the full 5 cards. Maybe I was just unlucky or I misplayed my hand a lot. I'm a bit rusty due to a tight schedule. Match-up also didn't help. Grishoalbrand, BG Death Cloud, RG Breach. Nevertheless, I'll keep testing it out to see if it really can't be done.
Summary of list: (can't type the whole thing as I'm on mobile)
SB: thought there would be a lot of control so I brought a grindy sb. Turns out it should've been go fast and bring hate.
2 Garruk Relentless, 1 Nissa VF, Lifecrafter's
For everybody who is questioning the competitiveness of GB Elves, here are the results of the ,,Modern Classic SCG Dallas'' (Top 32).
Three Elf-Decks in the Top 32, one in Top 8:
#8 GB Elves Ryan Clement (2 Lead the Stampede, 1 Throne of the God Pharao and 1 Growing Rites of Itlimoc as well as Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx Mainboard)
#14 Abzan Elves Josepth Pizzo (Vizier Combo, 1 Selfless Spirit, 4 Chord of Calling Mainboard)
#25 GB Elves Lloyd Rich (4 Chord of Calling Mainboard; 1 Temple Garden for Selfless Spirit in the SB)
Notes:
- No straight GW Elves in Top 32.
- Basically each GB colour-combination present (straight GB, Abzan with Combo, and GB with White for Sideboard).
- Lead the Stampede as well as Chord of Calling Mainboard present.
The one that top 8'd is very interesting. Especially that SB'd SOLAS and Driven to Despair. Also, the guy that got 14th had a very diverse sideboard. Tunnel Ignus and Magus of the Moon. Wow.
I'm moving away from Abzan as I don't see it being as competitive as the GB and GW Vizier versions. I'm going to try GB for now for more consistency and grind. I'll let you guys know how it works.
@Larrie:
Any grindy-non Jeskai matchup, the Garruk's overperform. Its a card that both VIP and myself have been testing extensively after I got him on board, and he's liked it too.
Interesting. It was odd to see her claim that Elves has a good matchup, but then lose to it. But that can happen with any matchup in Modern, as I know too well. I guess there's no explanation other than for me to "get good."
For reference, I was running Liam Lonergan's Invitational list nearly to the 75 (74 of 75 cards). I don't know if this changes anything. I realize that Elves with Shaman of the Pack is just better right now, so I just bought the 4 Gilt-Leaf Palace that I needed (kind of sucks because I sold the ones that I bought for $3 each to CFB for $10 each at a GP and now had to rebuy them at $12 each). At least I was able to bargain a bit, as most were around $15 right now.
I'm not sure whether GB is the best approach right now as GW has been the deck getting finishes. That might just be due to pilot strength (Martin Juza) or due to popularity. I think the GW might just be better in a non grindy meta while GB excels against GBx/DS. Different strokes for different folks.
Also as an addon, since people have been asking, my list for the PPTQ/this weekend and my list in the future when the Cradle comes out.
3 Forest
4 Blooming Marsh
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Gilt-Leaf Palace
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Pendelhaven
1 Westvale Abbey // Orhmendahl, the Profane Prince
3 Chord of Calling
1 (last week) Relic of Progenitus / (this week) Dismember / Growing Rites of I_______ (when it comes out)
4 Collected Company
Sideboard (in flux):
3 Thoughtseize
/0-1 Shaper's Sanctuary (testing when it comes out, season to taste)
0-2 Relic of Progenitus (season to taste)
1-2 Dismember (1 if one is main, 2 otherwise)
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Lifecrafter's Bestiary
1 Reclamation Sage
1-2 Garruk Relentless // Garruk, the Veil-Cursed (season to taste)
1 Creeping Corrosion
1 Fracturing Gust
1 Nissa, Vital Force
0-1 Stain the Mind (season to taste)
0-1 Thragtusk (season to taste)
(Had to not use deck tags cause new cards and brackets)
So is throne decent sideboard material then? Would it be good to side in against non-fast aggro decks?
To answer that, we should look at the match-ups where it would be good in. Grindy decks like control and midrange are where you supposedly would want it. However, I think there are better 2-drops in those match-ups that would affect the board greater such as Scavenging Ooze, Phyrexian Revoker and maybe even Riftsweeper against Ancestral Vision decks.
Has anyone done anymore work on throne of the god pharaoh? If so how has it been performing?
Card is certainly strong against grindy decks but is usually too slow versus other linear or combo decks. It shines in Lead cores that can grind games down but is easily cut from Abzan and GW lists.
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Horizon Canopy
3 Windswept Heath
1 Temple Garden
2 Forest
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Pendelhaven
Spells
4 Collected Company
4 Chord of Calling
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Heritage Druid
3 Nettle Sentinel
4 Dwynen's Elite
4 Devoted Druid
1 Vizier of Remedies
1 Elvish Visionary
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
1 Eternal Witness
2 Path to Exile
2 Lead the Stampede
1 Rest in Peace
1 Stony Silence
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Selfless Spirit
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Aven Mindcensor
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Chameleon Colossus
1 Reclamation Sage
I wasn't taking notes so this won't be detailed but here's a summary:
M1 vs Seismic Swans W 2-1
+1 BFT, +1 Selfless Spirit, +2 Kitchen Finks, +1 Rec Sage, +2 Path
-1 Visionary, -3 Nettle Sentinel, -2 Chord of Calling, -1 Dwynen's Elite
1-0
M2 vs TitanShift L 0-2
+1 BFT, +1 Selfless, +2 Finks, +1 Rec Sage, +1 Mindcensor
-1 Visionary, -3 Nettle, -1 Heritage, -1 Chord
1-1
M3 vs RG Ponza L 0-2
+1 BFT, +1 Selfless, +1 Rec Sage, +1 Mindcensor
-1 Chord, -1 Devoted, -1 Ezuri, -1 Nettle
1-2
M4 vs Merfolk L 1-2
+2 Path, +1 Stony (on the play), +2 Finks, +1 Selfless
-1 Visionary, -1 Ezuri, -1 Devoted, -3 Nettle
I made some questionable sideboarding here. To be fair, I was really rusty and was there to just get a feel of the deck.
Notes:
I was drawing Eternal Witness way more than usual. I bought an FNM foil version so maybe that's a factor. LOL
There were times when Ezuri was clogged in my hand. Sometimes it's good because I can keep casting one until my opponent runs out of removal
Kitchen Finks is an overrated card. Or maybe I was wrong to put them in some of my match-ups.
My sideboard was almost an exact copy of Ross Merriam's when he wrote that SCG article (http://www.starcitygames.com/article/35649_The-Excellent-Return-Of-Elves.html)
The deck has a steeper learning curve compared to other lists. It relies more on the board to win so you should know whether the risks of overcommitting is worth it. Sadly, I'm not yet good at this.
I want more Path to Exiles in the sideboard.
Aven Mindcensor is just too slow.
With these in mind, I tuned my list to shift to a more flexible one. Here's what I'm gonna run next:
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Horizon Canopy
3 Windswept Heath
1 Temple Garden
2 Forest
1 Westvale Abbey
1 Pendelhaven
Spells
4 Collected Company
4 Chord of Calling
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Heritage Druid
3 Nettle Sentinel
4 Dwynen's Elite
4 Devoted Druid
1 Vizier of Remedies
2 Elvish Visionary
4 Elvish Archdruid
3 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Path to Exile
2 Rest in Peace
1 Fracturing Gust
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Elvish Champion
1 Shaman of the Pack
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Selfless Spirit
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Chameleon Colossus
1 Reclamation Sage
I wanted Ooze as life gain instead of Finks since it can be put in the 60. I wanted to free up some of my SB and those were the easiest cuts. I also removed the Leads to make way for more Paths since I think that there are a lot of aggro decks than control in my local meta. Swapped Nykthos for Westvale as it has more impact. Also wins vs board stalls. Also, this list is for may local LGS. If I were to go to a large tournament right now, I would still probably run my first list.
Thoughts?
Lots of:
Death's Shadow
E-Tron
Burn
Abzan
Some:
Affinity
Storm
Titanshift
UWx control
Ad Naus
A bit of:
Elves
Living End
8-rack
Other Tron
Lantern Control
Here's what I'm thinking of:
3 Path to exile
1 Stony Silence
1 RIP
2 Lead the Stampede
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Selfless Spirit
1 Rec Sage
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Chameleon Colossus
1 Fracturing Gust
I want to stick a couple of Kitchen Finks but I can't find the space for them. Also, thinking of removing Gust for a 2nd Colossus. What do you guys think?
1. There's really no absolute answer on this. It all dependes on your match-up and how the board looks like.
Vs control and match-ups with board wipe (i.e jeskai control) , you generally want to wait for a wipe, float the mana, then cast it at the end of that phase. You'd also wanna wait until s/he taps out to avoid being countered. I like to keep around 4 power on board and reserve my coco as a 2nd/3rd wave
Vs aggro/combo/go big, you'll want to cast it asap since you wanna race and/or block
Vs grindy match-ups with lots of removal (ie jund and abzan), game 1 they probably dont have a board wipe so you'd wanna throw out everything you can. G2/3 changes dramatically aa they probably bring im damnations, wraths and such so you adjust accordingly.
2. Thrones is a great card, it's up to your taste on whether you find it good enough to dilute your coco plan or cut chords/leads for. They work great with shaman and heritage druids though. Great vs grinding and control.
3.Westvale is great in a GB shell. As M4Bear said, it wins you games you otherwise wouldn't have. In a GW shell, the mana produced by Nykthos is just better as your plan B is overruning with Ezuri. I like running Itlimoc as a 1-of. Great topdeck and just busted when your hand can abuse it. Imagine this:
T1 dork, t2 land drop into heritage and Dwynen's Elite into Itlimoc, end turn flip into coco. Thia would probably lead to some turn 2 scoops on the other end.
I'm not saying that I'm the best player but I've had a lot of experience on the deck so I hope this helps.
Summary of list: (can't type the whole thing as I'm on mobile)
Main: 3 Nettles, 1 Visionary, Selfless, EWit, 3 Ezuri, 4 Chords, fetches and shocks
SB: thought there would be a lot of control so I brought a grindy sb. Turns out it should've been go fast and bring hate.
2 Garruk Relentless, 1 Nissa VF, Lifecrafter's
Won't post the whole thing. 0-3
The one that top 8'd is very interesting. Especially that SB'd SOLAS and Driven to Despair. Also, the guy that got 14th had a very diverse sideboard. Tunnel Ignus and Magus of the Moon. Wow.
Awesome tech! Gonna try it for this week.
Where do you put in the Garruks?
Any reason on why you chose to run just one Ezuri?
To answer that, we should look at the match-ups where it would be good in. Grindy decks like control and midrange are where you supposedly would want it. However, I think there are better 2-drops in those match-ups that would affect the board greater such as Scavenging Ooze, Phyrexian Revoker and maybe even Riftsweeper against Ancestral Vision decks.
Card is certainly strong against grindy decks but is usually too slow versus other linear or combo decks. It shines in Lead cores that can grind games down but is easily cut from Abzan and GW lists.