It's a bit rough, but it looks serviceable enough. D&T eats Storm alive. In fact, this may very well be the single most vicious counters to Storm decks in NBLM. The toughest match-ups I've had with this type of deck are Breachpost decks. Everything else you just kind of tax into oblivion. If you find the Chalice of the Void a little too restrictive, you can run Thorn of Amethyst instead- but Chalice is better when most decks are around 60% 1cmc spells.
There are other variants that I've seen work: G/W Hatebears is very solid, and you get CoCo. Blue and Taxes gets to run the CounterTop lock if it wants, which is pretty neat. Black and Taxes is usually the way to go, though. It gets you the good sideboard options and the best options in targeted removal.
Hope this helps!
Thanks for the list! It's quite a bit different than I expected. I don't want to get into too many minutae, but why aren't there 4 SFMS, and what does Dismemeber add to the removal suite that isn't done better by PtEs?
Edit: I just realized that Chalice set to 1 renders PtEs useless. Maybe that's the reason?
How is Bant Eldrazi "anti-fair"? It plays creatures and swings with them and it's not that difficult to interact with them.
I'm going to help Hellfire out here, because there is no reasonable positive answer to this question. It is not "anti-fair." Sometimes one of it's lands generates an extra mana to cast creatures spells of a specific type. That's it, that's all. Compared to all of the other ridiculous things that you can do in the modern format, that's almost as fair as it gets.
Wouldn't Lantern Control love Inventor's Fair? It helps to stall and it tutors for whatever trinket or bridge you may need.
This is the 2nd thought that popped into my head. First was affinity of course, but affinity may have trouble getting to 5 mana sources. Lantern control on the other hand seems to get a significant boost from this card. Life gain + the ability to go get bridges. May have the same issue about getting to enough mana sources though.
I don't see what Warping Wail will add - it's a very mediocre counter (compared to Negate / Stubborn Denial), sure it can remove 1/* */1 critters but.. I dunno. I do feel that 2 engineered explosives might be to much in the sideboard - I see myself changing that to an additional removal spell or maybe something like Hurkyl / Hibernation.
I think that Warping Wail is a decent sideboard card, but it probably doesn't quite make the 75.
I really think that any less than 2 Engineered Explosives is a mistake though. It destroys Fish, Elves, Boggles, tokens, Lantern Control, etc. I board it in vs affinity and I've found it to be pretty good set on 0 or 2. It's also one of, if not our only out to Blood Moon. I see a lot of decks still running 3 copies of it.
A serious question, how this deck can be a tier if every time we face infect or Coco/kiki chord/maybe affinity we lose hard?
Sure, this is a fun deck but is competitive?
Some major exaggerations there. Infect is pretty even - we have 2 maindeck spellskites for instance and Ancient Stirrings can grab them. Skyspawner, Displacer, Path, Drowner, and Thought-Knot Seer all are great cards in the matchup too. Post-board we have a lot of options to make it possibly even slightly in our favor.
Abzan Coco is rough game 1. That's a bad matchup. Post board you need to hit some sideboard cards or run lucky. Grafdigger's Cage, also fetchable by Stirrings shuts them down hard. Any sort of counter spells Negate/Stubborn Denial is great vs Coco/Chord as well. TKS stealing important pieces is great of course.
Kiki Chord I don't understand why it would be a bad matchup. They're a slow combo deck.
Affinity is rough game 1, but significantly better post board. A lot of our creatures still are decent game 1, especially if you have been weaving in 2-3 Skyspawners into the main.
To point to more empirical evidence rather than match-up based evidence. In the past 2 weeks, Bant Eldrazi has T4ed a 2200 man GP, and a T8ed an SCG Modern Classic, and started putting up results online. Regardless of your opinion of certain match-ups, it is a competitive deck.
Abzan company is favored against Jund, and I believe it's favored against burn, but nobody will ever tell you that Tron is a good match up. The maindeck Fulminator Mage MIGHT get the match up closer to 50-50, but I can't imagine it being favored.
The problem with your request is that you want a deck that goes positive against the 2nd fastest aggro deck in the format, the most versatile midrange deck in the format, and the most powerful big mana deck in the format. All of which are tier one decks. I very much suspect that no such deck exists.
It used to be called Eldrazi Aggro.
Company is not favored against Jund at all. CoCo was 50/50 before Jund started running Kalitas main, Jund is almost certainly favored against CoCo (although not massively so) so long as it packs hate for it in the SB - which is a certainty given that it's a Tier 1 deck in the format. It's certainly favored against Burn but is terrible against Tron (unless it gets the god hand).
I would say Affinity is your best bet here. It's slightly favored against Jund, beats Tron and can race Burn.
Oh right, I own Abzan Company, but haven't played it since before Cleetus came out. I didn't consider that he might change the match up.
Abzan company is favored against Jund, and I believe it's favored against burn, but nobody will ever tell you that Tron is a good match up. The maindeck Fulminator Mage MIGHT get the match up closer to 50-50, but I can't imagine it being favored.
The problem with your request is that you want a deck that goes positive against the 2nd fastest aggro deck in the format, the most versatile midrange deck in the format, and the most powerful big mana deck in the format. All of which are tier one decks. I very much suspect that no such deck exists.
One question, how does this deck wins tron? Also merfolks doesnt seem to be a good pairing right?
Im starting to playing it and I like it A LOT!
The deck is disadvantaged vs Tron game 1 fairly heavily (like all mid-range decks). I'd say it's 40-60 or maybe even 35-65 vs Tron. Post board games get a lot better. We might be 55-45 post-board. I've grinded a lot of games vs Tron with this deck. Thalia, Guardian of Thraben is much better in this match-up than Spellskite. She slows down their digging and land searching, and applies pressure where spellskite does nearly nothing. She also forces Karn Liberated to come down a turn later, which is critical in allowing us to get a TKS and take it before it's cast. Because this version of RG Tron lost the inevitability of Eye, they can't reload on threats as easily as they used to. Sometimes taking their one bomb is enough to seal the game.
I have no experience vs Merfolk, but my educated guess is that it's not a great match-up. I think if they get to turn on island-walk they'll win more often than not. I'd avoid fetching Hallowed Fountain/Breeding Pool at almost all costs.
Brewing this deck a bit and I'm considering messing with the three drops. So many decks can't handle Geist of St. Traft and playing one on T2 is a beating. Obviously it's not going to be as effective as Matter Reshaper in some matches, but those are usually the matches where the Reshaper is only operating as a functional speedbump (it dies and may turn into another asset where the Geist will just die). You can also play multiple Reshapers, however this is offset by the fact that Geist hits for 6 on its own. It also practically autowins against the Jeskai and Grixis-based control decks floating around so much right now.
Really glad to see the discussion here picking up a bit.
Geist is interesting. We have 5-6 dorks, which is enough to T2 Geist a reasonable amount. I's say it certainly improves our clock vs combo. We already kind of auto-win vs Jeskai and Grixis control however. I'd be a little afraid of any deck that might be siding in Anger of the Gods. Anger is only mediocre vs us however, since TKS/Smasher/Drowner all dodge it. Geist of Saint Traft definitely wrecks Jeskai if they have no sweeper. Grixis still might have Pia/Tasigur/GDD, etc to block Geist though.
Mulliganing isn't as straightforward as it looks like it would be on paper. There are a lot of hands where you have to weigh the odds of drawing into a land in x turns or hoping your mana dork doesn't get bolted so that you can ensure a powerful enough curve to take over the game.
I found myself terrified of blood moon in the two matches where it mattered, and my fears were confirmed when it locked me out of just about every spell in the deck. There are 0 colorless sources once you get mooned out, and the only way you can access any colored mana is if you draw one of the 7-8 sources that can become basics / have a dork alive. How do you guys feel about playing against blood moon? I'm considering throwing 1 or 2 Celestial Purge, Krosan Grip, Disenchant etc in the side as a retroactive answer for that and as something that could come in handy against some other decks.
I'm running a Wastes in the main instead of a second Forest and a Celestial Purge in the side specifically for decks that want to Blood Moon me. My LGS occasionally has people who run Skred Red and the like, so I'd much rather gimp my mana a little and have outs than just be locked out of the game completely. In fact the first change I made to Todd Stevens' deck was adding a waste lol.
I haven't found mulliganing decisions to have been an issue yet. Sometimes you have to keep slightly risky hands, but no more so than other midrange decks for the most part. Ancient Stirrings is godlike lol.
Yeah, removal is a problem for this deck, lucklily, most removal doesn´t work against this deck(Abrupt Decay, Lightning Bolt). Although Jeskai can Path him, but not too worried about that matchup, it seems good.
So, on another note, i´ve been testing Eldrazi Mimic, and i think it is quite good.
I found that this deck is all about grinding against grindy decks and racing against faster decks. You certainly can´t play the control role against fast decks like Bogles, Affinity and Burn. Ancient Tomb and mana dorks makes racing very easy. You just have to mulligan until a fast hands shows up.
Also, i think Plan A for this deck is to close the game ASAP, so Mimic does that very well, it´s a must answer for the opposing deck, and it fits in the curve perfectly. I wouldn´t go above 1 tho...
I just wonder if something like Thalia would be better though since we don't run a ton of non-creature spells and it can wrench up our opponents plans.
I was grinding games over the weekend. I found that 4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben was too many, so I cut a copy and added a Birds of Paradise. I'm very intent on testing Thalias in place of Spellskite. I think Thalia is better vs small zoo, burn (first strikes down their creatures, and taxes their burn), Junk, ESPECIALLY Tron (which is a bad match-up), etc. I think she shores up a lot of our bad match-ups. Also basically no removal in the format can trade tempo-even with Thalia outside of Path/Bolt.
I won't be able to take my deck to FNMs until I get my Cavern of Souls in the mail, so I won't be able to test against a larger field until then. I also found that I preferred my World Breaker in the sideboard rather than the mainboard. I tried him in the mainboard for a while, but it takes too long to ramp to 7 mana, and it's only situationally preferable to Drowner of Hope.
So I have everything from Pascals list, -3 Cavern of Souls. Do I go +3 Ghost Quarter or colored mana?
Pascal runs 3 Brushland + 2 Yavimaya Coast. I'd probably go up to 4 copies of each instead of Caverns while you wait for them. Having tri-lands for this deck is just too good. Ancient Ziggurat is also an amusing budget option lol.
I need something that blocks in the air.. Almost like the only thing missing.
So my next builds i will try 2 or 3 eldrazi skyspawner which seems very solid too And helps against affinity which is a bad matchup pre-board. Something like 2 reshapers 2 spawners.
The other issue is that midrange like mardu And rock can tricky , And Matter does help a lot with its value.
So I totally agree with this deck needing something flying to block in the air. Unfortunately I highly doubt that we can fit Eldrazi Skyspawner into the list. The mana base in this deck is very badly stretched already. We need T1 green 100% of games, and access to very early white and waste mana. I don't think there's any way to get T2 blue consistently enough.
I own goyfs, but I think that they're terrible in this shell. Only 4 total card types, and only 4 instants, and 4 sorceries total. Also we have no quick ways to fill the GY in the early turns. Plus it stops you from running Rest in Peace in the sideboard. Not only that, but this deck has plenty of P/T already.
I really think that we're probably weak to very quick decks going under us. I added the 4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben instead of the goyfs to help mitigate that.
I've tested a very similar GW Eldrazi list (more mana dorks but no ancient stirrings) extensively vs standard GR Tron, and I've found that the Thalias delay the T3 Karns long enough for Thought-Knot Seer to start disrupting their hand. I would have thought that this deck would be very weak to Tron, but it has over a 50% win rate. Maybe 55-45.
The sideboard could no doubt use some tweaking. I'd like to add some more colorless silver bullets that we could find with Ancient Stirrings.
Thanks for the list! It's quite a bit different than I expected. I don't want to get into too many minutae, but why aren't there 4 SFMS, and what does Dismemeber add to the removal suite that isn't done better by PtEs?
Edit: I just realized that Chalice set to 1 renders PtEs useless. Maybe that's the reason?
I'm going to help Hellfire out here, because there is no reasonable positive answer to this question. It is not "anti-fair." Sometimes one of it's lands generates an extra mana to cast creatures spells of a specific type. That's it, that's all. Compared to all of the other ridiculous things that you can do in the modern format, that's almost as fair as it gets.
This is the 2nd thought that popped into my head. First was affinity of course, but affinity may have trouble getting to 5 mana sources. Lantern control on the other hand seems to get a significant boost from this card. Life gain + the ability to go get bridges. May have the same issue about getting to enough mana sources though.
I think that Warping Wail is a decent sideboard card, but it probably doesn't quite make the 75.
I really think that any less than 2 Engineered Explosives is a mistake though. It destroys Fish, Elves, Boggles, tokens, Lantern Control, etc. I board it in vs affinity and I've found it to be pretty good set on 0 or 2. It's also one of, if not our only out to Blood Moon. I see a lot of decks still running 3 copies of it.
To point to more empirical evidence rather than match-up based evidence. In the past 2 weeks, Bant Eldrazi has T4ed a 2200 man GP, and a T8ed an SCG Modern Classic, and started putting up results online. Regardless of your opinion of certain match-ups, it is a competitive deck.
Oh right, I own Abzan Company, but haven't played it since before Cleetus came out. I didn't consider that he might change the match up.
The problem with your request is that you want a deck that goes positive against the 2nd fastest aggro deck in the format, the most versatile midrange deck in the format, and the most powerful big mana deck in the format. All of which are tier one decks. I very much suspect that no such deck exists.
It used to be called Eldrazi Aggro.
The deck is disadvantaged vs Tron game 1 fairly heavily (like all mid-range decks). I'd say it's 40-60 or maybe even 35-65 vs Tron. Post board games get a lot better. We might be 55-45 post-board. I've grinded a lot of games vs Tron with this deck. Thalia, Guardian of Thraben is much better in this match-up than Spellskite. She slows down their digging and land searching, and applies pressure where spellskite does nearly nothing. She also forces Karn Liberated to come down a turn later, which is critical in allowing us to get a TKS and take it before it's cast. Because this version of RG Tron lost the inevitability of Eye, they can't reload on threats as easily as they used to. Sometimes taking their one bomb is enough to seal the game.
I have no experience vs Merfolk, but my educated guess is that it's not a great match-up. I think if they get to turn on island-walk they'll win more often than not. I'd avoid fetching Hallowed Fountain/Breeding Pool at almost all costs.
Geist is interesting. We have 5-6 dorks, which is enough to T2 Geist a reasonable amount. I's say it certainly improves our clock vs combo. We already kind of auto-win vs Jeskai and Grixis control however. I'd be a little afraid of any deck that might be siding in Anger of the Gods. Anger is only mediocre vs us however, since TKS/Smasher/Drowner all dodge it. Geist of Saint Traft definitely wrecks Jeskai if they have no sweeper. Grixis still might have Pia/Tasigur/GDD, etc to block Geist though.
I'm running a Wastes in the main instead of a second Forest and a Celestial Purge in the side specifically for decks that want to Blood Moon me. My LGS occasionally has people who run Skred Red and the like, so I'd much rather gimp my mana a little and have outs than just be locked out of the game completely. In fact the first change I made to Todd Stevens' deck was adding a waste lol.
I haven't found mulliganing decisions to have been an issue yet. Sometimes you have to keep slightly risky hands, but no more so than other midrange decks for the most part. Ancient Stirrings is godlike lol.
I was grinding games over the weekend. I found that 4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben was too many, so I cut a copy and added a Birds of Paradise. I'm very intent on testing Thalias in place of Spellskite. I think Thalia is better vs small zoo, burn (first strikes down their creatures, and taxes their burn), Junk, ESPECIALLY Tron (which is a bad match-up), etc. I think she shores up a lot of our bad match-ups. Also basically no removal in the format can trade tempo-even with Thalia outside of Path/Bolt.
I won't be able to take my deck to FNMs until I get my Cavern of Souls in the mail, so I won't be able to test against a larger field until then. I also found that I preferred my World Breaker in the sideboard rather than the mainboard. I tried him in the mainboard for a while, but it takes too long to ramp to 7 mana, and it's only situationally preferable to Drowner of Hope.
Pascal runs 3 Brushland + 2 Yavimaya Coast. I'd probably go up to 4 copies of each instead of Caverns while you wait for them. Having tri-lands for this deck is just too good. Ancient Ziggurat is also an amusing budget option lol.
I'd go ahead and test it if I were you. Maybe I'm wrong and you'll have access to blue mana early enough.
So I totally agree with this deck needing something flying to block in the air. Unfortunately I highly doubt that we can fit Eldrazi Skyspawner into the list. The mana base in this deck is very badly stretched already. We need T1 green 100% of games, and access to very early white and waste mana. I don't think there's any way to get T2 blue consistently enough.
1x Breeding Pool
4x Brushland
3x Cavern of Souls
4x Eldrazi Temple
1x Forest
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Plains
1x Temple Garden
1x Wastes
4x Windswept Heath
2x Yavimaya Coast
3x Eldrazi Displacer
4x Matter Reshaper
4x Noble Hierarch
1x Qasali Pridemage
4x Reality Smasher
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4x Thought-Knot Seer
1x World Breaker
4x Path to Exile
1x Celestial Purge
2x Engineered Explosives
1x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Negate
2x Rest in Peace
2x Stony Silence
2x Sunlance
3x Timely Reinforcements