regarding the "go infinite" route i used to play emrakul with gaier reach sanitarium for that reason. shuffling everything back let me ultimating original jace twice easier (: instead of bouncing everything a single jace as a wincondition in infinite turns looks better imho!
sup guys! had to take some time for some irl stuff deck is still kinda "solved" it seems from the lists i saw :/ i always read you all i just couldnt update the primer and play much recently
Having an As Foretold guarantees you win the resource war lategame. It gives you inevitability.
this is why as foretold is bad actually. there is no resource war late game. there is no opponent lategame at all. they stop playing turn 5 and if they get a chance to play a couple of other turns you out value them already and they will do nothing. early game dictates nets you more advantage in the correct timing than foretold, thus being bad in turns
Tron is not very good against permission-type decks nor ultra-fast decks, basically every Jace deck and every deck that wants to kill Jace decks. Tron are their best against midrange, so they are probably going to be a decent choice in a meta full of BBE.
Jace is good against TKS, but bad against Reality Smasher, so I think Eldrazi Tron is still decent in the meta. Probably colored tron decks are going to reduce their numbers in favor of Eldrazi Tron decks.
Also, I would like make something clear: don't be hellbent in the whole turn4 Jace thing. No one would ever do that in a game if it means you instantly lose the game. If I would draw a parallel, it would be going for a T4 Splinter Twin win when the opponent has open mana. If you make your argument for not playing Jace as taking the worst possible approach to play Jace, he will look like a bad card.
Please don't make a bad play and put the blame on the card.
then that 4 mana card stuck in hand for the correct moment to play could be something else that makes you win
i'd rather go Ug and ramp mana for early jaces tbh. seems better that way i guess
One of the breakout decks when Jace, the Mind Sculptor hit standard was a deck called TurboLands. It used some number of ramp spells like Explore and Oracle of Mul Daya to quickly deploy Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Time Warp. The synergy of putting drawn lands into the top of the library with Jace along side Oracle of Mul Daya made you essentially draw 3 every turn, helping you dig for those Time Warps. You would generally win the game with a huge Avenger of Zendikar or simply because you drawn so many more cards than the opponent thanks to Jace.
That should be a good starting point reference for UG turns with Jace, I think.
yep i remember it!
i think the best shell for jace at this point is UG with walk the aeons, crucible of world and extra land drop effect to overcome the cost of buy back
also, with all the digs from jace we can basically cut every exta turn spell and just play walk the aeons, this helps making room for interaction/protection
it's not that i understimate him
but we cant simply throw him in turns. we need to build around him a lot. i play mono U and i really done see myself playing him. a ug turn with him/crucible/buy back walk the aeons every turn? seems at least playable and comparablewith other builds
chandra is virtually 2 mana tho, i wouldnt compare her with jace since a turn 4 chandra still lets you do something else
we already have cantrips to set up masteries, sure mastery all four of them would be strong but i dont think that's what we need
turns cries for good early interaction/disruption, not big boys to win/make the combo stronger while going off
with the unban of Jace, are we looking at a completely different playstyle of the deck? It certainly feels like you don't just run it out on turn 4, unprotected, correct? with that in mind, if we're playing Jace, would we shift to a more creature-centric strategy utilizing cheap CMC, high toughness creatures to aid in keeping Jace alive? Thinking main deck: TitI Spellskite Wall of Frost (lol) Sidisi's Faithful Deceiver Exarch Calcite Snapper (which I've used as a "win-con" before, and shroud is solid in a world FULL of fatal push)
I know this is all speculation (discussion?) at this point, but probably worth bringing up because windmill slamming a turn 4 Jace onto a developed board is not what we want to do. Maybe the turns deck doesnt even want Jace, and we just stick it out with Riverwise Augur (which has been bonkers every time I've cast it).
very much this
i wouldnt run more than one
i wouldnt run a 4 mana mine effect even if it is definetly more powerful than that.
winmore late game and unplayable early game
JTMS allows any Temporal in our starting hands or not drawn first to be miracled. It definitely has a lot of potential. T3 exhaust, T4 JTMS, T5 miracles into going off maybe?
the problem is
t3 exhaust
t4 jace
t5 nothing because you lost tapping out for him
i dont think jace will improve the deck that much
might see play, it is a strong card on his own for sure,but it will probablybe a 1 of in some builds because you just like him and you wanna play him
meh idk how to feel about that
basically
the first effect culd be +2: do nothing. with that cost we already have some mine effects and we dont need filtering that much late game
0: brainstorm is much more appealing
we would -1 like 1 match out 100
the ultimate doesnt win us the game
i dont know if i want a 4mana brainstorm everyturn since late game if we combo we are already winning
this is why as foretold is bad actually. there is no resource war late game. there is no opponent lategame at all. they stop playing turn 5 and if they get a chance to play a couple of other turns you out value them already and they will do nothing. early game dictates nets you more advantage in the correct timing than foretold, thus being bad in turns
then that 4 mana card stuck in hand for the correct moment to play could be something else that makes you win
i just can see myselfplaying jace in mono u sadly. also, i dont feel buying a 200$ card that might be rebanned in 6 months. no jace for me
yep i remember it!
i think the best shell for jace at this point is UG with walk the aeons, crucible of world and extra land drop effect to overcome the cost of buy back
also, with all the digs from jace we can basically cut every exta turn spell and just play walk the aeons, this helps making room for interaction/protection
it's not that i understimate him
but we cant simply throw him in turns. we need to build around him a lot. i play mono U and i really done see myself playing him. a ug turn with him/crucible/buy back walk the aeons every turn? seems at least playable and comparablewith other builds
we already have cantrips to set up masteries, sure mastery all four of them would be strong but i dont think that's what we need
turns cries for good early interaction/disruption, not big boys to win/make the combo stronger while going off
very much this
i wouldnt run more than one
i wouldnt run a 4 mana mine effect even if it is definetly more powerful than that.
winmore late game and unplayable early game
the problem is
t3 exhaust
t4 jace
t5 nothing because you lost tapping out for him
might see play, it is a strong card on his own for sure,but it will probablybe a 1 of in some builds because you just like him and you wanna play him
meh idk how to feel about that
basically
the first effect culd be +2: do nothing. with that cost we already have some mine effects and we dont need filtering that much late game
0: brainstorm is much more appealing
we would -1 like 1 match out 100
the ultimate doesnt win us the game
i dont know if i want a 4mana brainstorm everyturn since late game if we combo we are already winning