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  • posted a message on UBx Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas Control
    @thenobodys: I think Humans alone is a good enough reason for decks to play Plague Engineer,so I would definitely expect to play against it.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on UBx Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas Control
    Hi Everyone! I've been away from modern for a while, kinda of hated the format for a multitude of reasons, but Modern Horizons is coming and along with it a bunch of new toys for the archetype! I am looking to update the primer over the course of the next month but I am hoping to get a jump on the vital cards given we should have a lot of new faces around here.

    What cards do we think are worth including in the Primer that currently are not?

    - Urza, Lord High Artificer is an easy include.

    - Force of Negation Deserves a spot in the 75 for builds playing enough blue cards. I'll crunch the numbers (or find the data from some legacy FoW math) and get that in the primer.

    - Goblin Engineer Has the potential to open up new avenues for the deck and I am excited to see what this community does with it.

    - Tribute Mage This one is a little slow but does exactly what we want it to in many cases.

    - Mox Tantalite Bad card right?

    - Arcum's Astrolabe Might be worth playing in shells with lots of basics?

    - Mirrodin Besieged I feel like this is for a different deck

    Any cards within the last year that anyone thinks needed to be added? I tested Karn the Great Creator and hated it but it should get some primer space regardless because I am sure people will ask about it. We have some new Tezzeret's that seem lackluster.

    I had about 15 pages worth of material to catch up on here and it looks like a lot of new tech has been tested. I just saw @thenobodys 5-0 list with Narset, Parter of Veils and Teferi's Puzzle box. I'd love to hear more about it. Seems very strong to incidentally hate out the faithless looting/serum visions decks, while introducing another lock piece and another value digging/value generating piece against slower decks.

    I tested this main deck before Goblin Engineer, Tribute Mage and Arcum's Astrolabe were spoiled and really liked the upgrades that Urza and FoN brought:


    Let me know what you all think!
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on UBx Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas Control
    Hey guys! I've been working on a different looking list and I think I am ready to share what I've got.

    the nobodys has been killing it with his turbo thopter/sword builds featuring Muddle the Mixture and the rest of the community seems to be following suit building decks that also try to turbo out the combo. Another theme I have noticed is more and more graveyard hate. I feel like this has to be right direction and I wanted to go deeper on a deck that could abuse main deck relic of progenitus while also playing the combo.

    I have been less satisfied with the artifact tool box now that playing 4+ graveyard hate cards is correct. Therefore I wanted to try testing without Whir of Invention again. Here is what I have come up with:


    I want to get more testing in but my preliminary results have been promising. The relics give you very favorable matchups against all the graveyard decks. The control shell gives you game against tribal decks and Thopter/Sword lets you grind out the fair decks. If anyone thinks I'm missing something here let me know. I'll be running this back Monday and Thursday night this week.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on UBx Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas Control
    @iPuntPenguins:

    1.) Yes
    2.) I prefer Abrupt Decay for a few reasons. Most of the Stony Silence decks are also the Blue decks with counters. Whether it be Mausoleum Wanderer or Cryptic Command I need to know that the 1-3 cards I am drawing to WILL work when I find them. In addition to that I often board them in as extra removal spells against specific decks like Humans.
    3.) As of late I have been playing a ton of ATrophy in Sultai Midrange/Control style decks and have loved it there but am likely not to touch it here. Mostly because the utility is different. I don't NEED an all purpose answer, I need to kill Stony Silence, Rest in Peace and Thalia Guardian of Thraben. Why play Atrophy if it is actively worst in most scenarios that I need it? In midrange/control decks I play the card as a better Terminate paired with Fatal Push to negate most of the early ramping problem.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on UBx Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas Control
    @Al_Z_Heimer: I think you will quickly find that Ancient Strrings is much worse in this deck than in Lantern Control. It's not your fault really, the card is busted in decks like Lantern and Tron and everyone who picks up this deck thinks "Yeah, I'll jam 4x Ancient Stirrings and it has to be better!"

    Not being able to find Thopter Foundry is actually a big deal. In both Lantern and Tron it finds your combo pieces, all of them. Here it only finds 1/3 of them if you count Whir of Invention as part of the combo, which you realistically should.

    In addition to that the mane base is much more difficult here than in Lantern. Essentially we pull out a bunch of 0-1 cmc cards for 7-10 2 cmc cards. Glimmervoid has a real cost and Spire of Industry can be much more painful then a fetch/shock base. The curve increase also calls for more lands in general. Double spelling costs twice as much here and you still need to flurry everything out for Ensnaring Bridge.

    My suggestion would be to switch over to a more conventional mana base and dramatically reduce your green by switching to main deck Serum Visions over Ancient Stirrings.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on UBx Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas Control
    Quote from Aretherk »
    Is there a discord for the Tezzeret archetype? If so I would like an invite code please.



    If one doesn't exists, would the group be interested in me making one?


    There is one, but it is pretty quite. Most of the conversation happens here. https://discord.gg/59yu3Z4
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on UBx Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas Control
    @dustycrumbz: Bottled Cloister is one of the few cards I have never tested. I never thought to consider it a threat on it's own but I suppose you are right. Seems like a must answer card in the grindy games. I have often found control players just let me resolve Whir of Inventions once they have a Stony Silence on the table because they don't think I can get anything that matters. Normally they are right but this would definitely change that dynamic and I'll be sure to give it a try.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on UBx Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas Control
    @Systrill: I main deck 2 Welding Jars in addition to my 2 Ensnaring Bridges and it seems to work out just fine. It is unlikely they have 4 answers to it in game one. I also play the 3rd out of the sideboard for the match ups where I feel I need it and it could get destroyed.I don't find myself losing many games over not finding or being able to maintain an Ensnaring Bridge.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on UBx Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas Control
    I've done some a bunch of Assassins Trophy testing and I still don't know if it is better than Abrupt Decay. Don't get me wrong, the versatility is valuable but with a RIP/Stony Silence counter spell deck in tier 1 I am unsure if it is worth passing up on the un-counterable clause.

    I keep meaning to try out KCI and for whatever reason never do. I'll have to make sure I do that soon but I am inclined to believe you. I agree that it is better but I don't want to have another 4 drop to clog up my hand. I tend to run more 4 drops than most around here to begin with so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

    Couldn't agree more with The Nobodys comments on Selene's post. Although the forum is titled UBx Tezzeret Control the deck has evolved an enormous amount since it's inception. Unfortunately I can't rename the post but even if I could I still think the Uxx Whir of Invention Thopter/Sword Shell is well known and recognized as Tezzerator or Tezzeret control even if the planeswalker were never to appear again. Having said that you are absolutely welcome here and if you have any information you think the primer is lacking I would be happy to make an update. Need to do some cleaning up, add deck lists, new card sections, etc. in the next week or so anyway.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on UBx Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas Control
    I took the results from all of the Tezzeret lists that have made the MTG Top 8 website since the printing of Whir of Invention and ran them through a deck aggregation program. This creates a deck list that would contain the most commonly played cards. The resulting deck list was shockingly good.



    Now I am not saying to sleeve this up, although you definitely could, but some of the inclusions are thought provoking. Points of interest in my opinion:

    - Time Sieve is the combo finisher of choice
    - 4x Pentad Prism
    - 4x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
    - 1x Fatal Push
    - 4x Collective Brutality in the 75
    - 3 Different colorless utility lands common enough to make the aggregate
    - Green cards make the sideboard but Breeding Pool doesn't make the main deck

    This sideboard actually looks great to me and is something I could see myself playing for sure. Any other interesting thoughts?
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on UBx Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas Control
    @HiltonMode: JTMS has been bonkers. I know there was a lot of discussion about him shortly after the unban and many settled on not playing him. However for me he has been SO good that I had myself wondering if I I'd rather have more JTMS over Tezzeret. I am playing the 5 walkers to increase threat density against decks like UW miracles but still feel like I need more. Probably not more walker but another threat for sure. An artifact that is also a threat would be ideal. I have been considering testing 4x Etched Champion out of the sideboard but I fear they will bring back in the terminus in the event of a game 3 to remove them.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on UBx Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas Control
    First of all, congrats @the nobodys! Saw your results posted, again, and it prompted me to come back and revisit Tezzeret.

    I have been thoroughly testing every conceivable version of Sultai control/midrange/delver now that we have Assassins Trophy and Mission Briefing. None of them have been good. :/

    What is the new tech people have been having success with post GRN? I see the nobodys mentioned grave hate and I totally agree. Graveyard decks are all over running my local meta and can be difficult to beat without some kind of interaction, but that little but interaction heavily swings the game in your favor.

    I saw @dustycrubmz write up about Serum Visions/Hand Disruption in our deck and I have come to the same conclusion. I always want to have serum visions in my deck and hand disruption has felt lack luster. However, like @JacetotheFace mentioned the first few pieces of hand disruption are far better than the last few. I have decided on running 3x Collective Brutality and have been very happy with that choice.

    Here is my current build:


    My plan is to never lose UW control, and have about 50% win rate against everything else that I can. Tron is no longer the instant lose menace that it once was with Assassins Trophy and Unmoored Ego. The graveyard decks can be beaten with limited disruption and Ensnaring Bridge. Aggro has a hard time with the combo and Collective Brutality. Right now I only wish I could squeeze some Opts or Sleight of Hands into the deck but I am not sure what to cut for them. Thoughts?
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on UBx Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas Control
    @LachOut:I was going to reply to you on reddit but then realized I wrote just about a book in response. Saw you posted here so thought that I'd leave my reply here instead.

    I'm not sure you identified the weaknesses of the deck appropriately.

    1.)You start by stating UW is popular and seem to propose that it is a match-up that needs fixing. This isn't true. Once you have 4x Thopter Foundry and 4x Whir of Invention you have 8 "effective" copies of thopter foundry in your deck in addition to 8 more cards that can dig to those pieces. Against control you only need to stick ONE thopter foundry and you are a huge favorite to win the game. Post board gets significantly more difficult for you but if you pack alternate win conditions and 2+ abrupt decay it is still very winnable.

    Starting with your stated problems:

    1.) You only need ~ 22 artifacts to make Whir of Invention/Mox Opal/Tezzeret reasonably reliable. In fact despite being an artifact deck you want to play as few artifacts as possible. Why? Imagine a deck that is 20 lands and 40 artifacts. If you cut one artifact for any new card than that new card is likely to be the best possible card for your deck since it wasn't chosen from a subset of the population of magic cards. In addition to that the artifact you cut is the WORST card in your deck. The trick is to run as few artifacts as possible while still powering up the necessary artifact-matters cards. Mathematically, that number is ~ 22 artifacts for Whir of Invention builds.

    2.)Despite what modern players like to tell everyone you are not dead on turn 4 90% of the time. Combo online or nearly hellbent with ensnaring bridge in play by turn 3 is fast enough. Your solution to trim the combo and play more 3 and 4 drops than normal is exactly the opposite of what you want to be doing to speed yourself up. Think ahead, play to your outs and you should come out of the gate fast enough to play with even the fastest decks in modern. If your meta is particularly fast look into playing more main deck removal.

    3.)Thinking the deck leans heavily on Ensnaring Bridge just means the combo isn't getting together consistently enough. Looking at the top ten decks in modern right now: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/modern#online the only times you NEED the Ensnaring Bridge is against Humans and depending on the speed of there draw versus your draw Hollow One and Bant Spirits. Other than that the combo is more than enough to stop them dead. Ensnaring Bridge is one of my most commonly boarded out cards but due to its raw power and ability for fringe decks to just kill you without it you have to play it main deck.

    4.) Of the cards you listed the only one I would consider standard is the Welding Jar. Spellskite and Dampening Sphere should be in the board and playing the third combo piece is still debatable.

    5.)Pyrite Spellbomb seems fine against humans but fatal push is on color and more effective against a variety of decks. Stretching your mana base into red for one card is not worth it.

    6.)Your mana base has only 17 lands that make blue and if we count 2 of the Mox Opals (Legend rule, get destroyed, not always online) that gives you 19. Every time you draw only two lands or three lands but one isn't blue, you slow down Whir of Invention by a turn and that is a quick way to lose a lot of the fast games. 21-22 blue sources is far more consistent.

    What I believe are the real problems facing the deck:

    1.) The degenerate starts of this deck don't compare to the degenerate starts of most other combo decks in the format. The best possible start against a goldfish is a t4 win that requires you draw 8 specific cards in your top 11-12. Versus Storm/Infect/AdNauseum/Burn/Hollow One/Bridgevine having theoretical turn 3 kills and much more consistent kills beyond T4.

    2.)The deck is incredibly hard to fine tune to the perceived meta game. Much like Kiki-Chord if you go into the tournament misunderstanding the field you will get punished and often lose. The deck is not currently good enough to attract the attention of pros or grinders so it is largely a grassroots effort to build up the deck.

    3.)The deck requires a critical mass of artifacts to function but has very few auto-include value artifacts to play. You have to stretch to fill out the artifact slots and that means you are playing worse cards than your opponent most of the time. (WOTC Baleful Strix WHEN?!)

    4.) It has a huge target on it's back despite not even being a player in the meta game. Getting aggressively hated out by affinity or KCI sideboard cards hurts the deck significantly going in to post board games.

    The only one of these 4 you can fix is number 2 and it will take way more time and practice than it is worth to play a tier 3+ deck right now.

    My list for refrence: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1312482#online

    I don't mean to discourage you or anyone else from playing this deck. I love this deck. I want more people to play it. But it seemed like you were relatively new to the deck and falling into some of the traps that many of us testing the deck for years have already thoroughly tested.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on UBx Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas Control
    @tugatog: Field of Ruins sounds great but it comes at a real cost when you want to hit UUU on turn 3 with high frequency.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on UBx Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas Control
    @Jacetotheface: I think you are right about faithless looting. We have seen it power up multiple other modern shells now and it would be an easy include here if we were in red. It may be strong enough to make it worth dipping into red, but I haven't quite figured out how I want to do it yet. So if anyone else has a grxixs list floating around out there please share!

    Bomat Courier has me skeptical though. Why play 6 main deck creatures? It feels like it is the perfect number to make our opponents dead removal spells real cards and I would prefer for them to be blanks.
    Posted in: Control
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