I'm trying my hand at an aristocratic strategy. I still aggro for damage of course, but I gain advantage with sac outlets. Also, for backup win cons I can burn the table with Purphoros and/or Impact Tremors, or play Malakir Bloodwitch, sac her, then use recursion to burn the entire table.
I'm trying to make room for Dictate to Erebos, but I'm not sure what to remove.
I have sold off most of my legacy duals and various other legacy lands throughout the years as well as key components to many decks so I'm having trouble finding a deck to start out with. The cards it seems I have the most for is a sultai delver deck but I can't find a primer to ask this question in, is there a sultai delver thread? Tried to look up BUG too but all the threads are dead.
I also have miracles,but a friend told me it's dead since top was banned.
Dredge I'm missing three bloodghasts for modern(gave up on it after troll ban) and LED for legacy.
I have my twelve posts still, my dark depths and thespian, even a few gaea's cradles still. Have a single wasteland left as well as a single city of traitors and missing everything that goes with any of that.
I have full playsets of every modern dual though but that's potentially lethal in legacy.Worth the risk?
Anyways, I'm having a hard time finding a starting place, any suggestions on threads on here that might be helpful that are competitive enough to play with the top decks if a sultai delver primer doesn't exist?
Miracles isn't dead. People still play it. There are records of it on MTG Goldfish and TC decks. Just plays some different cards now. it's still a great deck, but no longer the monster it used to be. Sultai delver can also be found on MTG Goldfish and TC decks. Imho I'd go with Delver and eventually build into Grixis Delver. Up to you though.
If this is the place for Edgar Markov decks, then I guess I'll post here.
I agree with what the other two users are saying about your land count. I run 36. They also made other suggestions that I didn't even think about. Right now, I haven't fully ironed out all the kinks to my deck, but I'm going to post mine here.
I created a play group with a few friends of mine and I came to the agreement of playing multiplayer for EDH. We think the political aspect of multiplayer is hilarious and can't wait to make deals with one another and talk that good *****. We have two rules we're following as of right now.
I also need to make room for Bloodline Keeper and Butcher of Malakir, but I'm unsure what to take out. I'm not sure if I'm running enough big creatures were I would replace two for Bloodline Keeper and Butcher of Malakir or if I can just include two more big creatures and remove two other cards from the build.
Suggestions and feedback would be much appreciated. Thank you all in advanced.
Sure, go for it! Good Luck. However you probably should play Crusader, its the best creature in the GB deck.
Maybe you want to try a traditional UG list, but put one overgrown tomb in it as well as 4 discard spells and see how that works?
Collective brutality is a great card. I don't see why you wouldn't want more in the sideboard.
In terms of a grindy midrange metagame, I just saw this BG infect deck that got 3rd in a top 8. Granted it was in the Philippines which means that their meta may be different there, but check this out. The date should be read like this (DD/MM/YY) for those unfamiliar with MTGTop8.
It plays mainly disruption, then plays Become Immense. It also dies Blossoming Defense. Very strange build.
It's a mono black infect like the one in the first page with a green splash , played the deck for a while, burn, affinity, tron and infect were very bad matchups (which was basically the tier-1 at the time) good vs combo and even vs BGx midrange (before fatal push), it's more a control deck à la 8-rack with 8 infecters for racks and inkmoths for mutvaults
With its recent placement do you see it going anywhere in the current meta? UG Infect isn't a thing at the moment and Burn can't hit Phyrexian Crusader.
@D90Dennis14 - The Sultai mana base is difficult. In BG Infect Plague Stinger becomes your pseudo-Blighted Agent. Flying is still fairly decent evasion in Modern. As Erich_Zann said, Phyrexian Crusader is your MVP. I beat Boros Burn last night dropping one T2 AND T3. The fact its 3CMC isn't an issue - it means Push needs to have Revolt triggered. Pro-Red AND White is still incredibly useful in the format.
@Erich_Zann - following FNM last night I made one slight adjustment to my list - gone to 4xBlossoming Defense and 3xGroundswell (It used to be 3 and 4). You're right - protection is more useful atm than all-in on pump. I'm thinking about 3xCollective Brutality in the SB instead of 1 and 2xKitchen Finks, thoughts? I'm thinking there's a fair amount of combo at the moment... Finks only ever really acts as a blocker and 4 life max, Brutality gives me discard + life + removal depending on what I need.
I went 2-2 at FNM last night.
R1 - 0-2 Grixis Control. She had T1 Ancestral Vision both games, and I made a mistake with the beginning of combat step and activating my Inkmoth Nexus vs Cryptic Command. I did learn something useful though :rolleyes:. Our store guy is also a L2 Judge so was really helpful in explaining rules. This was the match that made me want more protection spells.
R2 - 1-2 GB Tron. Very close games. Sideboard Pithing Needle was valuable! It really is a race of having a creature down T1 or T2 and hoping they don't get an O-Stone or Ugin to wipe your board...
R3 - 2-1 Boros Burn. G1 I won with Noble Hierarch beats. G2 he had the (un?)luckiest Goblin Guides - 5 lands off of 6 triggers! G3 he had no answer for 2 Crusaders.
R4 - 2-1 Esper Control. G1 he had Geist of Saint Traft and 3xBlessed Alliance...
Collective brutality is a great card. I don't see why you wouldn't want more in the sideboard.
In terms of a grindy midrange metagame, I just saw this BG infect deck that got 3rd in a top 8. Granted it was in the Philippines which means that their meta may be different there, but check this out. The date should be read like this (DD/MM/YY) for those unfamiliar with MTGTop8.
It plays mainly disruption, then plays Become Immense. It also dies Blossoming Defense. Very strange build.
Like I said I also been struggling with UG in my store because it is full of midrange. I was in luck yesterday that I drew two favourable matches and won them both but when I got up against another midrange deck full of Path, Push, discard and all the good stuff I knew from the beginning that my chances were very very small.
Anyway I decided to get some cards to finish BG and I been testing it online for a couple games and I noticed that the midrange, full of removal and discard matchups are a lot more positive and easier to win. I am really pleased seeing that. Infect is the only deck that I have (sold all my other decks due to time constrictments) and now I basicly have two different decks but using the same mechanic. I always like playing the same deck to become very good at it and basicly be an expert with it.
Like Zann said Legacy UG Infect can take on anything because it is so efficient in setting up a hand, having acces to the strongest counters in the game and the best and cheapest pump aswell.
My opinion is that UB Infect is the faster deck but it needs a meta that plays other more solitair style decks and combo. WHen your opponent interacts with you a lot you don`t have efficient enough removal, hand setup and not even enough creatures to find new ones fast after you lose them.
I am confident that UG Infect would still struggle a lot even with Probe in a meta like these. Tom Ross also made a BG Infect list about a year ago when the meta was very removal heavy and midrange so I think BG Infect is a good meta call right now. Infect is still a very effective, dangerous and fast strategy that should not be underestimated we only need to adapt to the new meta. If it changes into a faster more aggro and combo style meta UG Infect will shine again.
Anyway these are my 2 cents and I will be rocking my fresh BG Infect deck next FNM.
Just checked the full spoiler and unless I missed something there is not a single new card for the deck, wich is unfortunate. The only one is the green destroy artifact with cycle, wich can be a good option for the SB in the "bring this if you think your oponnent could have chalice in their SB". But I think viridian corrupter is better anyway since is always a 2/2 infect creature, wich is fine.
To be fair is hard for a new card to enter the deck, since every card is so cheap and efficient already, but is still a bit disapointing.
@Erich_Zann, thankyou for your feedback and your courtesy towards me.
Let me explain my thought processes a bit more.
When I said "At the end of the day, you still want to be doing 10 Infect ASAP" I'm not implying that we rush or go hyper-aggro with the deck. What I'm referring to is that Infect is better in the early-mid game than mid-late game. You don't want an Infect match dragging out too long. If your opponent gets all their land and/or answers it makes it far harder to us to win. Ideally we want a T3 or T4 kill. The way you achieve that is with pump - +4/+4s are most consistent - Might of Old Krosa and Groundswell are the best 2 1-mana instants to do this at the moment in Modern. (I would LOVE to have Invigorate in Modern!!!)
You suggest discard as the answer for removal/grindy meta, but again I disagree. In response they will often just cast the instant anyway forcing you to respond. In my experience the BG Infect build often has the redundancy to fight through removal/discard - 16 infect creatures vs 12/13 for UG - about 1/4 vs about 1/5. You're more likely to have multiple infecters on the battlefield so they need to pick carefully what they target - then you pump what isn't targeted. If you don't have a creature, you're more likely than UG to draw another one. Furthermore, Phyrexian Crusader has protection vs Bolt, Path, Terminate, Searing Blaze, Anger of the Gods, Electrolyze, Staticaster, Nahiri, Condemn etc, and only dies to a "revolted" Fatal Push.
My experience has been that that discard spell you used could have been a +4/+4 pump spell that won you the game that turn... (Crusader + Hierarch + Pump = 5-7 Infect)
If you're really worried, you can always up the Protection as you suggested - I run 4xVines of Vastwood and 3xBlossoming Defense MB, which could got up to a 4th I guess.
Re: land, I think you're underestimating the need for double black AND enough green for pump/protection in this build, as well as the greater pain of 3 life for fetch+shock in Modern compared to Legacy (no Bayou or Tropical Island ). Some turns you simply must have the right colours - drawing an extra basic of the wrong colour will not help. That's why I cut down to one Pendelhaven - it doesn't work with Crusader, and sometimes I wish that land could tap for B too. There's nothing worse than a crusader in hand, 3 land but only 1 that taps for B. Pendelhaven is useful but not as necessary in BG than UG. Blooming Marsh gets around the problem of the right colours AND the problem of lifeloss from shock+fetch. It does take some skill to sequence the land drops more though. However, if I already have 3 lands in play then draw a Marsh I'm never normally sad - the deck runs fine with 3 lands (remember you'll likely have a Hierarch too), so 4 or more land is merely helpful extras.
I agree with Groundswell sometimes being inconsistent, but sometimes you can hold a land back if you don't need it, or hold GS back and play them together. Its a card you need to think about with fetching and when to play land drops, but its effect is worth the extra skill involved using it.
I can tell you that of the 15 Modern Infect decks on MTGTop8 from the past 2 months, 9 of them used Groundswell in some number...
Good luck at FNM if you go tonight!
I get the points you're trying to make. I for one never use the discard after I have a creature on the field unless there is one already there. As much as Glistener Elf and Plague Stinger do a hell of a good job Phyrexian Crusader is MVP, so I don't mind losing some creatures here and there. MVP in UG was Blighted Agent and I hated when he got merc'd. Speaking of pump spells. Ya'll look at this yet?
P.S.: I don't underestimate the need to have BB for Phyrexian Crusader. I'll try out Blooming Marsh in the future, but the basics have been working just fine for my build. I still think Pendelhaven needs to be a 2 of. If anything take out a singleton forest if you're that worried about an overflow of G.
At the moment, BG Infect is well placed in the heavy removal/discard meta because it has more bodies than UG, with Phyrexian Crusader being able to protect itself and come down T2 if you're lucky. I'd run 4 of them.
It also has many interesting MB and SB decisions to make.
I originally ran hand disruption but took it all out in favour of 4xGroundswell. I've decided hand disruption only slows you down. At the end of the day, you still want to be doing 10 Infect ASAP. Spending 1 mana to remove something from your opponents hand could be an extra pump or protection spell. What you get is a more resilient Infect build, with the ability to interact via spot removal.
A 3rd Rancor is very useful, but the pseudo-evasion with Flying and Pro-Red+White is not to be underestimated.
Land-wise I run 20 land - 6 fetches, 2 basics, 1 Pendelhaven (its slightly less relevant for BG), and 4xBlooming Marsh. Of the 75 games I've played, I've only been mana screwed 4 or 5 times. The main issue is having enough G for pump, and double B for Crusader. That's where the Fast Land helps.
So, I want to touch upon what's bolded in my quotation of your post. That sort of mindset isn't the mindset to have with Infect. Our main goal may be get 10 infect counters on our opponent, but playing too hastily is toxic. What I like about Legacy Infect over Modern Infect is that it has a balance between pump spells, cantrips and counterspells. This allows the deck to be prepared for situations versus the meta. Modern has no good draw spells except for Serum Visions which ultimately is still ***** compared to cards like Brainstorm and Ponder. So, in replace of these cantrips we apparently run more pump spells which makes the deck more fragile. Not mention the lack of counter spells in comparison to Legacy. Legacy has Force of Will, Daze and Spell Pierce in the mainboard. Obviously there are no cards on the same level as Force of Will and Daze in Modern, so we would improvise. All I see are 1-2 copies of Spell Pierce and 1-2 of Apostle's Blessing. For one, I think Spell Pierce isn't as good as it is in Legacy. In Legacy a lot of lands get destroyed with Wasteland or returned to hand with Daze, so the extra 2 one has to pay for Spell Pierce doesn't happen on a consistent basis. Since Modern is a slower format with Wasteland not being legal and Ghost Quarter seen in X amount of decks the number of lands your opponent develops mid-late game is greater than in Legacy. I have ran into situations where that extra 2 can be payed and my Spell Pierce more times than I'd like. It becomes either wasted or just useless leaving me with my little poisonous buddies dying for nothing. Apostle's Blessing is a good card and deserves a spot in Modern Infect. I enjoy it, but it doesn't help against getting discarded by Collective Brutality, which is in a decent number of decks in the meta. Adding more pump spells isn't the right answer to solving out problems in the meta. What good are pump spells if our creatures die like cattle? We're left with hands filled with pump spells that have no targets.
What we need is a different approach to playing Infect. One similar to Legacy Infect. One where we can kill our opponent, but can stand on it's own two legs and grind the match out if we can't kill right away. I think BG is that right approach we need for the current state of the meta. That or we reconstruct UG to play more like its bigger brother in Legacy. Our only issue is Modern doesn't have spells like Berserk or Invigorate in the deck, so we have to pay for a lot of our pump spells.
Next I want to touch upon your land count. If you want to win quicker why are you running Blooming Marshes? I hate these type of lands. I think they're useless. They come in tapped unless you control 2 or fewer lands which makes them only great for the first 2-3 turns. After that they just come in tapped, slow us down a turn and aren't fetchable. They're a waste. they aren't consistent enough. Why put in any card that only works a certain percentage of the time? Winning in a tcg means your deck needs to be as consistent as possible. You can solve that problem by adding 1x Swamp and 1x Forest in additions to that basics you have and 2 more fetches. This will make Groundswell more reliable as a pump spell, because now you're not slown down a turn if you draw the Blooming Marsh beyond turn 3 because it's now a better land. I'm personally not a fan of Groundswell. It goes back to the notion of running consistent cards, although one can argue that it's more consistent than not, but it still has the chances of only being a +2/+2 depending if you have lands to play. Infect does not play a lot of lands to begin with, so this makes it inconsistent. We're not going to draw a land every turn to make this a consistent card. I think the potential +4/+4 is nice, but half the time I find myself wishing it was something else.
I disagree with your statement about disruption being a waste. Would you rather have an extra pump spell to waste on your infect creature as it gets Path to Exiled, Fatal Pushed, Lightning Bolted, Condemned, Blessed Alliance, Abrupt Decayed, Collective Brutality, or et cetera; or would you prefer to cast disruption by discarding those threats from the hand, then safely playing your infect cards while simultaneously knowing what's in your opponents hand? Knowing whether or not it is safe to trek the waters? Knowing that their tools have been disposed of? I think I'd go with the second option. BG is going to be grindier for sure, but it helps us against the current meta which is also grindy. Aggro decks are taking it in the butt right now. Wanting to make BG more aggro is like asking for a gun to off yourself.
Lastly, your idea to run 1 less Pendelhaven isn't a wise choice. There is a reason why Legacy runs 1x Pendelhaven in comparison to Modern where we run 2. Modern doesn't have Crop Rotation. In Legacy they can search for it whenever they need it. In Modern we have to hope to draw for it. Running 1 less takes away a nice piece to our overall goal.
I want to add that your sideboard options make a lot of sense and I need to restructure it. We are in a point in the meta where Infect needs to be a bit more passive. I encourage everyone to try ouy BG infect or make UG more balance in terms of spells (Pump, draw, counterspells). Easier said than done, I know. I'll post results in the near future about my BG build.
***P.S.: I want to add to you personally that at no point should this be taken as a direct attack. I appreciate you putting in your 2 cents in about BG infect since you've been playing it since October. I just want to state that being too hasty wiil get us killed in this meta. I learned a lot from what you shared and will be using it to help further develop my BG build. Thank you.***
If we have to go slower why don't we go the way that Death Shadow went and just try to convert Infect to a style like that deck.
Pack lots of disruption, throw in some Fatal Push and go for one or two big hits. I don't know this is just something that came in my mind.
That's what BG infect is. I mean it may be 2-3 big hits, but it has enough disruption to fit that sort of playstyle. Played a few games last night and did pretty well for myself.
I was thinking of replacing 1x Dismember with a third copy of Fatal Push or Abrupt Decay and siding in the extra Dismember for Eldrazi Decks. Maybe drop the copy of Vampiric Link in the sideboard for it? What do you guys think? Going to give this a spin tonight possibly at a local hobby shop.
So, I've been playing this deck in Modern for about 3 weeks and as of recent I've been getting smashed left and right. It's getting to the point to where I'm discouraged to pilot this deck. Spot removal is everywhere on untap and I can't seem to win on a consistent basis. How do you all handle this?
I to am getting discouraged by loosing to removal as well. Infect just needs to be slower an more careful against decks that answers to our creatures. Infect can win on turn 2 if everything goes in our favor. Most of the time, I want to win on turn 3 and up. This deck usually always wins on game 1 but we need to slow it down a lot the following games from here on out. Infect just needs to be slower than we were before the ban list update.
LOTS of protection, and patience. Currently packing 4 Vines of vastwood, 4 blossoming defense, 2 apostles blessing, 4 spell pierce as a protection package. Thinking of going to 3 or 4 blessings because of the unblockablity.
Protection spells may be the answer, but I feel we need something else. Spell Pierce has been inconsistent for me, because I can also draw it late game and it doesn't do crap. It's really good early game if our opponent attempts to Path to Exile/Fatal Push us, but they have mana late game. I feel once a match reaches to its later turns and we still haven't won yet due to all the spot removal it's pretty much curtains.
How do you guys feel about BG infect? It's slower and grindier for sure, but it fits the current meta and has a lot of disruption spells and remove potential threats from our opponents hand. It has its cons sure, but do ya'll think it would be able to perform any better than UG infect right now?
Been lurking this thread for a while, so I'll put my 2 cents in about Harsh Mentor. This card I see in the mainboard. Sure, the opponent can kill it before they activate their effects, but that's only and X amount of decks.
Swords to Plowshares: Miracles, Death and Taxes Fatal Push: Grixis Delver, 4 Color Control, BUG Delver, BUG Control, Sultai Delver Abrupt Decay: 4 color Control, BUG Delver, BUG Control, Sultai Delver, Food Chain, 4 color Loam, GB Loam Pox Punishing Fire: Lands, 4 color Loam Lightning Bolt: Grixis Delver, UR Delver, Burn
Any other Burn Spell: UR Delver, Burn
That's 11 decks That have the potential to kill Harsh Mentor before they activate any abilities. The decks that can do it on a consistent rate look to be Burn, UR Delver, Sultai Delver, BUG Delver, and BUG Control. They may be able to get rid of it, but they have to waste it on Harsh Mentor and still take the damage from Eidolon of the Great Revel. Harsh Mentor adds another brick in our wall which I feel warrants a spot in the mainboard. It applies extra pressure on the opponent, especially early game. Hell, I see Harsh mentor being played in UR Delver as well.
So, I've been playing this deck in Modern for about 3 weeks and as of recent I've been getting smashed left and right. It's getting to the point to where I'm discouraged to pilot this deck. Spot removal is everywhere on untap and I can't seem to win on a consistent basis. How do you all handle this?
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/what-is-a-man-smashes-wine-glass/
I'm trying my hand at an aristocratic strategy. I still aggro for damage of course, but I gain advantage with sac outlets. Also, for backup win cons I can burn the table with Purphoros and/or Impact Tremors, or play Malakir Bloodwitch, sac her, then use recursion to burn the entire table.
I'm trying to make room for Dictate to Erebos, but I'm not sure what to remove.
Miracles isn't dead. People still play it. There are records of it on MTG Goldfish and TC decks. Just plays some different cards now. it's still a great deck, but no longer the monster it used to be. Sultai delver can also be found on MTG Goldfish and TC decks. Imho I'd go with Delver and eventually build into Grixis Delver. Up to you though.
I agree with what the other two users are saying about your land count. I run 36. They also made other suggestions that I didn't even think about. Right now, I haven't fully ironed out all the kinks to my deck, but I'm going to post mine here.
I created a play group with a few friends of mine and I came to the agreement of playing multiplayer for EDH. We think the political aspect of multiplayer is hilarious and can't wait to make deals with one another and talk that good *****. We have two rules we're following as of right now.
1)No infinite Combos
2)No tier 1 commanders (Ex; Zur)
I also need to make room for Bloodline Keeper and Butcher of Malakir, but I'm unsure what to take out. I'm not sure if I'm running enough big creatures were I would replace two for Bloodline Keeper and Butcher of Malakir or if I can just include two more big creatures and remove two other cards from the build.
Suggestions and feedback would be much appreciated. Thank you all in advanced.
1x Edgar Markov
Creature (30)
1x Bishop of Rebirth
1x Bishop of the Bloodstained
1x Blood Artist
1x Blood Seeker
1x Bloodcrazed Paladin
1x Bloodghast
1x Bloodline Necromancer
1x Bloodthrone Vampire
1x Brutal Hordechief
1x Captivating Vampire
1x Crypt Ghast
1x Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
1x Drana, Liberator of Malakir
1x Falkenrath Aristocrat
1x Falkenrath Gorger
1x Gifted Aetherborn
1x Indulgent Aristocrat
1x Malakir Bloodwitch
1x Mavren Fein, Dusk Apostle
1x Mirror Entity
1x Olivia's Bloodsworn
1x Patron of the Vein
1x Sanctum Seeker
1x Shadow Alley Denizen
1x Stromkirk Captain
1x Stromkirk Condemned
1x Vampire Hexmage
1x Vampire Nighthawk
1x Viscera Seer
1x Yahenni, Undying Partisan
1x Arid Mesa
1x Battlefield Forge
1x Blood Crypt
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Caves of Koilos
1x Command Tower
1x Flooded Strand
1x Godless Shrine
1x Marsh Flats
6x Mountain
1x Mutavault
1x Nomad Outpost
1x Path of Ancestry
3x Plains
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Sulfurous Springs
8x Swamp
1x Tainted Field
1x Tainted Peak
1x Unclaimed Territory
1x Verdant Catacombs
Enchantment (7)
1x Anointed Procession
1x Grave Pact
1x Journey to Nowhere
1x Necropotence
1x Oblivion Ring
1x Oversold Cemetery
1x Phyrexian Arena
1x Beseech the Queen
1x Diabolic Intent
1x Exsanguinate
1x Toxic Deluge
1x Vandalblast
Artifact (11)
1x Boros Signet
1x Chromatic Lantern
1x Cloudstone Curio
1x Eldrazi Monument
1x Heirloom Blade
1x Orzhov Signet
1x Pillar of Origins
1x Rakdos Signet
1x Skullclamp
1x Sol Ring
1x Talisman of Indulgence
Instant (10)
1x Anguished Unmaking
1x Boros Charm
1x Go for the Throat
1x Mortify
1x Path to Exile
1x Return to Dust
1x Rootborn Defenses
1x Swords to Plowshares
1x Teferi's Protection
1x Terminate
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/what-is-a-man-smashes-wine-glass/
I feel that would prove to be too clunky.
With its recent placement do you see it going anywhere in the current meta? UG Infect isn't a thing at the moment and Burn can't hit Phyrexian Crusader.
Collective brutality is a great card. I don't see why you wouldn't want more in the sideboard.
In terms of a grindy midrange metagame, I just saw this BG infect deck that got 3rd in a top 8. Granted it was in the Philippines which means that their meta may be different there, but check this out. The date should be read like this (DD/MM/YY) for those unfamiliar with MTGTop8.
It plays mainly disruption, then plays Become Immense. It also dies Blossoming Defense. Very strange build.
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=15224&d=292436&f=MO
What's your list looking like?
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/cards/amonkhet/28833-supernatural-stamina
I get the points you're trying to make. I for one never use the discard after I have a creature on the field unless there is one already there. As much as Glistener Elf and Plague Stinger do a hell of a good job Phyrexian Crusader is MVP, so I don't mind losing some creatures here and there. MVP in UG was Blighted Agent and I hated when he got merc'd. Speaking of pump spells. Ya'll look at this yet?
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/cards/amonkhet/28833-supernatural-stamina
P.S.: I don't underestimate the need to have BB for Phyrexian Crusader. I'll try out Blooming Marsh in the future, but the basics have been working just fine for my build. I still think Pendelhaven needs to be a 2 of. If anything take out a singleton forest if you're that worried about an overflow of G.
So, I want to touch upon what's bolded in my quotation of your post. That sort of mindset isn't the mindset to have with Infect. Our main goal may be get 10 infect counters on our opponent, but playing too hastily is toxic. What I like about Legacy Infect over Modern Infect is that it has a balance between pump spells, cantrips and counterspells. This allows the deck to be prepared for situations versus the meta. Modern has no good draw spells except for Serum Visions which ultimately is still ***** compared to cards like Brainstorm and Ponder. So, in replace of these cantrips we apparently run more pump spells which makes the deck more fragile. Not mention the lack of counter spells in comparison to Legacy. Legacy has Force of Will, Daze and Spell Pierce in the mainboard. Obviously there are no cards on the same level as Force of Will and Daze in Modern, so we would improvise. All I see are 1-2 copies of Spell Pierce and 1-2 of Apostle's Blessing. For one, I think Spell Pierce isn't as good as it is in Legacy. In Legacy a lot of lands get destroyed with Wasteland or returned to hand with Daze, so the extra 2 one has to pay for Spell Pierce doesn't happen on a consistent basis. Since Modern is a slower format with Wasteland not being legal and Ghost Quarter seen in X amount of decks the number of lands your opponent develops mid-late game is greater than in Legacy. I have ran into situations where that extra 2 can be payed and my Spell Pierce more times than I'd like. It becomes either wasted or just useless leaving me with my little poisonous buddies dying for nothing. Apostle's Blessing is a good card and deserves a spot in Modern Infect. I enjoy it, but it doesn't help against getting discarded by Collective Brutality, which is in a decent number of decks in the meta. Adding more pump spells isn't the right answer to solving out problems in the meta. What good are pump spells if our creatures die like cattle? We're left with hands filled with pump spells that have no targets.
What we need is a different approach to playing Infect. One similar to Legacy Infect. One where we can kill our opponent, but can stand on it's own two legs and grind the match out if we can't kill right away. I think BG is that right approach we need for the current state of the meta. That or we reconstruct UG to play more like its bigger brother in Legacy. Our only issue is Modern doesn't have spells like Berserk or Invigorate in the deck, so we have to pay for a lot of our pump spells.
Next I want to touch upon your land count. If you want to win quicker why are you running Blooming Marshes? I hate these type of lands. I think they're useless. They come in tapped unless you control 2 or fewer lands which makes them only great for the first 2-3 turns. After that they just come in tapped, slow us down a turn and aren't fetchable. They're a waste. they aren't consistent enough. Why put in any card that only works a certain percentage of the time? Winning in a tcg means your deck needs to be as consistent as possible. You can solve that problem by adding 1x Swamp and 1x Forest in additions to that basics you have and 2 more fetches. This will make Groundswell more reliable as a pump spell, because now you're not slown down a turn if you draw the Blooming Marsh beyond turn 3 because it's now a better land. I'm personally not a fan of Groundswell. It goes back to the notion of running consistent cards, although one can argue that it's more consistent than not, but it still has the chances of only being a +2/+2 depending if you have lands to play. Infect does not play a lot of lands to begin with, so this makes it inconsistent. We're not going to draw a land every turn to make this a consistent card. I think the potential +4/+4 is nice, but half the time I find myself wishing it was something else.
I disagree with your statement about disruption being a waste. Would you rather have an extra pump spell to waste on your infect creature as it gets Path to Exiled, Fatal Pushed, Lightning Bolted, Condemned, Blessed Alliance, Abrupt Decayed, Collective Brutality, or et cetera; or would you prefer to cast disruption by discarding those threats from the hand, then safely playing your infect cards while simultaneously knowing what's in your opponents hand? Knowing whether or not it is safe to trek the waters? Knowing that their tools have been disposed of? I think I'd go with the second option. BG is going to be grindier for sure, but it helps us against the current meta which is also grindy. Aggro decks are taking it in the butt right now. Wanting to make BG more aggro is like asking for a gun to off yourself.
Lastly, your idea to run 1 less Pendelhaven isn't a wise choice. There is a reason why Legacy runs 1x Pendelhaven in comparison to Modern where we run 2. Modern doesn't have Crop Rotation. In Legacy they can search for it whenever they need it. In Modern we have to hope to draw for it. Running 1 less takes away a nice piece to our overall goal.
I want to add that your sideboard options make a lot of sense and I need to restructure it. We are in a point in the meta where Infect needs to be a bit more passive. I encourage everyone to try ouy BG infect or make UG more balance in terms of spells (Pump, draw, counterspells). Easier said than done, I know. I'll post results in the near future about my BG build.
***P.S.: I want to add to you personally that at no point should this be taken as a direct attack. I appreciate you putting in your 2 cents in about BG infect since you've been playing it since October. I just want to state that being too hasty wiil get us killed in this meta. I learned a lot from what you shared and will be using it to help further develop my BG build. Thank you.***
That's what BG infect is. I mean it may be 2-3 big hits, but it has enough disruption to fit that sort of playstyle. Played a few games last night and did pretty well for myself.
3x Overgrown Tomb
2x Pendelhaven
4x Inkmoth Nexus
2x Swamp
2x Forest
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Misty Rainforest
Creatures (15)
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Glistener Elf
4x Plague Stinger
3x Phyrexian Crusader
4x Might of Old Krosa
4x Vines of Vastwood
3x Blossoming Defense
2x Become Immense
2x Fatal Push
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Dismember
Enchantments (2)
2x Rancor
Sorceries (4)
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
1x Dismember
1x Illness in the Ranks
4x Nature's Claim
2x Spellskite
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Vampiric Link
2x Viridian Corrupter
2x Wild Defiance
I was thinking of replacing 1x Dismember with a third copy of Fatal Push or Abrupt Decay and siding in the extra Dismember for Eldrazi Decks. Maybe drop the copy of Vampiric Link in the sideboard for it? What do you guys think? Going to give this a spin tonight possibly at a local hobby shop.
Protection spells may be the answer, but I feel we need something else. Spell Pierce has been inconsistent for me, because I can also draw it late game and it doesn't do crap. It's really good early game if our opponent attempts to Path to Exile/Fatal Push us, but they have mana late game. I feel once a match reaches to its later turns and we still haven't won yet due to all the spot removal it's pretty much curtains.
How do you guys feel about BG infect? It's slower and grindier for sure, but it fits the current meta and has a lot of disruption spells and remove potential threats from our opponents hand. It has its cons sure, but do ya'll think it would be able to perform any better than UG infect right now?
Swords to Plowshares: Miracles, Death and Taxes
Fatal Push: Grixis Delver, 4 Color Control, BUG Delver, BUG Control, Sultai Delver
Abrupt Decay: 4 color Control, BUG Delver, BUG Control, Sultai Delver, Food Chain, 4 color Loam, GB Loam Pox
Punishing Fire: Lands, 4 color Loam
Lightning Bolt: Grixis Delver, UR Delver, Burn
Any other Burn Spell: UR Delver, Burn
That's 11 decks That have the potential to kill Harsh Mentor before they activate any abilities. The decks that can do it on a consistent rate look to be Burn, UR Delver, Sultai Delver, BUG Delver, and BUG Control. They may be able to get rid of it, but they have to waste it on Harsh Mentor and still take the damage from Eidolon of the Great Revel. Harsh Mentor adds another brick in our wall which I feel warrants a spot in the mainboard. It applies extra pressure on the opponent, especially early game. Hell, I see Harsh mentor being played in UR Delver as well.