I would put in more basic lands and mana ramp like deep reconnassiance, harrow, journey of discovery, mnovuli acid moss, and frenzied tilling, plus maybe some other gems that are ripe for kresh like woodfall primus, altar of dementia, kiki-jiki (only if you can reliably produce three red mana). Also if you like rolling thunder try out fanning the flames since its got a buyback and it is a reusable blaze. For straight mana ramp try out darksteel ingot and coalition relic since they are cheap, make any color, and normally don't draw too much attention. Cheers
I am going to check if there is a petition already in existence to save brainstorm and ponder. If there is I will post a link to it here; if not I would like to know about starting one. Brainstorm is not a game breaking card by any definition; neither, indeed, is ponder. With gush, flash, and scroll taking their leave of absence what on earth is the point of nerfing not only them but all blue decks? Why didn't the DCI just go ahead and ban force of will if they really wanted blue decks to get the axe? It would have helped a lot more than toying with the vintage players.
I am calling this one right now: With the threat of a gush based offensive wiped out shop decks, ichorid decks, and this new painter's deck will now have free reign to dominate. Replacing one archtype with another isn't solving the problem of powerful decks in vintage.
Here is my list that has been doing well against my local opponents. A mix of burn/removal and superior beaters. I have a good game vs nearly all my opponents.
I made this deckfrom one day of trading and one day of winning a morningtide draft. I have tested it a bit and it gets massacred by white weenie but puts up a fight against other decks like blue/black faeries and doran. I want to replace familiars ruse with rune snag but I don't have any. Other than that small discrepancy with how I think the deck should be I have no major complaints about it, other than the fact it folds to white weenie bad. Any help offered is greatly appreciated. Also, I only have 3 yavimaya coasts otherwise there would be 4 of them.
I want this deck to be able to beat my friends annoying white weenie deck and I know for a fact that having the rune snags will help with that because I find it is not always possible to have 2u open for familiar's ruse. I have been considering remove soul and the new morningtide card that counters non-creature spells. The deck seems a little clunky but the green combos are excellent. I have had no real complaints with the deck except for its lack of first strike creatures. Also if it doesn't get a good starting hand it does develope a little slowly. The thing I find great about it is that it can bounce difficult-to-deal-with-creatures and counter board effects like wrath and damnation which oppoenets usually try and cast against me when I am in a better position.
The two biggest problems I have had with this deck are:
1: Sometimes slow to get off the ground and start beats.
2: Getting 2u so I can counter something relevant.
Thanks for checking this deck out and, again, thanks for all your contributions.
4 bazhaar of baghdad
4 chalice of the void
4 leyline of the void
4 golgari grave troll
4 stinkweed imp
4 golgari thug
4 bridge from below
4 narcomoeba
4 ichorid
4 unmask
4 cabal therapy
3 dread return
2 cephalid sage
flamekin zealot
4 serum powder
4 city of brass
2 petrified field
board:
4 gemstone mine
2 ray of revelation
3 emerald charm
3 chain of vapor
3 darkblast
this sideboard is for a heavy control/shop w/welder meta
use your own sideboard if you think there might be something else at your metagame, such as more gat, where you should use contagion instead of darkblast. If you expect jailers galore you should cut darkblast altogether...maybe and side in 4 contagions. those kill both jailer and welders. Welders hurt ichorid in many ways...mainly by removing bridges, but also by allowing dirty dirty recursion of crypt. Shop also runs like 9 sphere effects sometimes. That means you have to have the mana to bounce the spheres. I have seen an ichorid user using ingot chewer and shattering spree...but alas he failed in the long run. Ichorid is not good to run in a shop heavy/sphere heavy environment. Game one is all you but you need too much luck to get past all their sphere effects. You could use oxidize or crumble if you're a budget gamer but multiple sphere effects on turn one follwoed by land destruction turn two means good game ichorid. Play ichorid in a gat/gush/random meta an dreap the rewards. they usually board leylines/jailers...you have to watch out on pithing needle though...thats rough unless you rip chain. Some decks like deeznauts and bomberman run needle main >.< holy crap that is beast. You will usually be on turn 2-3 before it comes online though so it's all good. I have, however seen deeznauts rip land, mox,mox trinket mage for lotus, boband needle on turn one on bazhaar cuz they scouted...basids. rough case...gotta get past needle and beats for 4 up turn one. Good luck on that one chief ;~(
Good luck to all the ichorid players out there. People love to hate out ichorid but a pro player can dance around hate like it's ol'pops with the wooden ladel :> Dance *****es!
I guess the bussiness aspect of magic escapes me. I have made playsets of cards over time but never once have I approached this game to make a profit, except once while in my first vintage tournament in bluebell. For me this is a fun role playing, almost like my old pasttime D&D. Whatever the case I do have a lot of fun playing this game...it's just that certain aspects of this game and its community frustrate me. For the most part, though, I have been very impressed with the magic community. Most are decent people who are both friendly and trustworthy. While my rants may/may not be justified I feel that they are. If I put some time into thinking through my arguements I'm sure I could use logic and reason to make them much more sound.
Thanks everyone for your input. It is really interesting to me to see everyone's opinions on these matters. Just to clarify: I play vintage almost exclusively, and sometimes legacy. I have many, many staples from both formats (the ones that are not more than 30 USD a piece). The reason I say that some vintage players are elitist is simple; without a huge forward investment there is no possible way to compete in a sanctioned vintage tournament. Naysayers abound! To buy even the most run-down renditions of unlimited power nine you're going to have to drop in excess of 2,000 USD. This leaves people with few options.
I say that wizards is a corrupt a&& company for a few reasons. It is true that people play a part in the pricing of cards. But the old addage that supply vs. demand still comes into play. WOTC inflates prices themselves also in a different way. They do not reprint powerful cards. Many more people would have access to vintage if they reprinted the power nine and other high-end staples. This would not take away from collectors at all. On the contrary; it would mean that "real" collectors could just go after alpha/beta/unlimited copies of power nine or arabian nights/legends versions of powerful cards while the less rich could own reprints. Why is this bogus? Because wizards would never reprint the power nine. They know it would take away from the secondary market for these elitists.
I know that everyone has their own opinion on how to collect and play. My opinion is my own. I am a collector of magic cards second to actually playing the game. The reason I am so frustrated is because people with unlimited funding can walk into a sanctioned event and I can not. I have bills and a life just like everyone else. I know that life is not fair and neither is magic >.< I just felt like venting and am glad to see that others agree with my squabling :>
I would like to end this rant with a true story:
I was in a store in westfield, NJ (closed down BTW) and I saw a young kid, no more than 12 years old walz into this store and demand from his father a rediculous sum of money; this kid told his dad, not asked, straight told his father his father to fork over 200 dollars. The father did and this kid proceeded to buy every hot type 2 card the shop owner had that he wanted. The kid was so happy and the father seem relieved to have appeased his son, for the time being. Meanwhile I was beholding this occurence with awe! There was a another kid, around the same age as the aforementioned kid, standing close by. He had no money, was a local kid, and was struggling to play competetively and learn magic. The kid was watching, just like me, at this spoiled brat gloating over his new cards and bragging to his friends and father about his new wares. A little after this, when the brat left, the other kid (not spoiled) went up to the counter and tried to buy a visara the dreaful. The kid emptied his entire wallet right in front of the shop owner and short by like a dollar or something, whatever the case the shop clerk denied this poor kid and sent him packing. The kid looked destroyed. I had to do somehting about this. I told the kid to come over here, which he did and I sat him down. I asked him why the shop clerk denied him he said " the guy is charging 7 dolars I only have five". GD clerk, give the kid a break! I busted out my binder and whipped out a spanking new visara the dreadful and gave it to the kid. He was so surprised! His eyes lit up and he was so happy; I had just made this kid's day by giving him this little piece of cardboard. I felt good, too, because I had given some kid happiness for a short moment. Anyways I don't know if there is any moral to this story but I do know that while money can buy happiness a little generosity can, too.
Thanks everyone for your input and your opinions. I read all your posts and thank you for your time. Feyd
Hi everyone. I attended a bluebell tournament a few months ago and really enjoyed it. I hope to got to the one on the sixteenth but don't have a ride. I was hoping that sonenoe that was already planning on attending could help me out and let me tag along. I could maybe throw in for gas money. It would be awesome if someone could help me out. I would be very grateful, too. Well here's to hopinh :> Thanks again, Feyd
I ask you: what the hell is the attraction to foreign cards? What exactly is the appeal? The art is the same, the effect is the same; in all practicality they are the same thing. So what...foreign cards are a little more rare. What's the difference? The only thing I would prefer is a black border. At the same time I despise foreign cards. I speak english and german but I would never buy or trade for a german force of will, I play with all american, mostly english speaking people. I am not concerned with them not understanding what the card does. If there is ever a question I suppose they could look the card up. But I am not going to go wild over an italian mana drain...come to think of it I don't go wild over an english mana drain anyway.
For me foreign cards are very unnattractive. It is kind of like the term win-more. These people are mostly show-offs. There is an exception to this though: some foriegn cards are cheaper to their english counterparts. For some people foriegn cards are the only way they could affordably get higher end cards. For most other, these "pimps" it a way to show off. Get a job! Get some friggin english cards and be proud of your language! I see someone with a foil japanese daze and I want to smack them, seriously. Can these people have any bigger egos?
Which brings me to another point: why bother with foil cards? Now I know my way around the game and can tell you that foil cards might look nice to some people but they come at a cost. They are difficult to take care of, are more expensive than their non-foiled counterparts, and don't really prove much at all. I see many people running around saying that they will only trade for foiled cards, or that they have to make a completely foiled ichorid deck..or some such nonsense. I personally don't see the point to all this tom-foolery.
I see magic as a very fun game to play but people take it way too far. Besides the fact that many people I have met who play magic are fanatical, they are also way too willing to blow exhorbitant ammounts of money on the game. In the first place the game is a nice hobby to have but it a very expensive hobby. Too expensive if you ask me. Wizards of the coast are a bunch of crooks. Artificially inflating the prices of their cards and sucking many young adults and seasoned vets dry. Who comes up with the pricing for these frickin cards in the first place?
My main point is that while this game is fun and all it is also very elitist. I am a vintage player at heart and I find it obnoxious that every card I want to have in my deck has a nuts-ass price tag on it. The power nine are hilariously priced; no one but the super rich and super spoiled could ever hope to buy one. This leaves the rest of the gaming community without the proper cards to combat these insane decks that these richie-rich basids throw at them. Elitism is wotc's way to separate the elite and the normal peons; drop your wad on a black lotus or get the hell out of our sanctioned events. You know why they will never reprint the power nine? Because they don't want every joe schmoe competing in vintage. Sometimes it seems like it's enough to give me an aneurism. Anyway my rrant and tirade are done. I can only hope that my view is shared by someone other than me. Many gamers will read this and say, "Oh what a poor looser..haha!" and other will see exactly where I'm coming from. Well, that's that. Hope you enjoyed your read.
Is there anyone in new jersey or new york that knows of a type 1 tournament? If so where are these type 1 players hiding? >.< I knew of a few card shops in the middlesex county area but 2 closed down and the third hardly has a turnout anymore where it was once booming. PLease offer me some direction as to where I can get some good games or go to a tournament. Thanks much in advance.
I wish I had another brainstorm, only have 3. But you are right about the grim monolith power artifact thing...hardly get it to work but when I do it means the end of the game cuz I will wish for stroke of genius and deck my opponent instantly, usually when I see they tap themselves out or I know I have more force counters than them.
I have regrowth but I took that out in place of empty the warrens, put that back in? I have been desparately trying to find both lion's eye diamond and mana crypt but these cards are...apparently..as rare as chickens teeth around here...not many people in my area have them and they most certainly wont trade for em :< I have channel, but I dont have 3 living wishes, I only have one of those but could most likely get more, I have maze of ith, but no barbarian ring but that can be easily traded for methinks.
The problem I have with proxies is that the usual place I go for tournies dont allow them except if you actually own the card. Usually people bring it with them in a case but they dont wanna play with it so make a proxy instead of shuffling with it.
If I cut grim monolith, power artifact, and the meditates, what should I add in their places?
I most certainly must have force of will in there...it has saved my ass way too many times and the bluff of having one is just as important. As far as adding mana drains I think I will forego them. First of all I hate the art on this card which is a big factor in my deck making. Also, I have trouble keeping my mana open, 2 blue mana is usually not around when I need it. I usually blow my mana when I get it to cast threats or draw cards. And besdies that I never need mana to counter or misdirect a spell. you are right about it adding gas though...when I tested with these instead of misdirect it went very well but then again I want to trade these for power cards like timetwister or the blue mox.
Also mox diamonds are restricted in type 1 no?
I am calling this one right now: With the threat of a gush based offensive wiped out shop decks, ichorid decks, and this new painter's deck will now have free reign to dominate. Replacing one archtype with another isn't solving the problem of powerful decks in vintage.
2 birds of paradise
4 bramblewood paragon
4 wren's run vanquisher
3 imperious perfect
3 chameleon colossus
2 taurean mauler
2 winnower patrol
2 harmoize
2 hunting triad
4 rift bolt
3 obsidian battle-axe
4 karplusan forest
3 gemstone mine
7 forest
5 mountain
3 treetop village
I want this deck to be able to beat my friends annoying white weenie deck and I know for a fact that having the rune snags will help with that because I find it is not always possible to have 2u open for familiar's ruse. I have been considering remove soul and the new morningtide card that counters non-creature spells. The deck seems a little clunky but the green combos are excellent. I have had no real complaints with the deck except for its lack of first strike creatures. Also if it doesn't get a good starting hand it does develope a little slowly. The thing I find great about it is that it can bounce difficult-to-deal-with-creatures and counter board effects like wrath and damnation which oppoenets usually try and cast against me when I am in a better position.
The two biggest problems I have had with this deck are:
1: Sometimes slow to get off the ground and start beats.
2: Getting 2u so I can counter something relevant.
Thanks for checking this deck out and, again, thanks for all your contributions.
4 chalice of the void
4 leyline of the void
4 golgari grave troll
4 stinkweed imp
4 golgari thug
4 bridge from below
4 narcomoeba
4 ichorid
4 unmask
4 cabal therapy
3 dread return
2 cephalid sage
flamekin zealot
4 serum powder
4 city of brass
2 petrified field
board:
4 gemstone mine
2 ray of revelation
3 emerald charm
3 chain of vapor
3 darkblast
this sideboard is for a heavy control/shop w/welder meta
use your own sideboard if you think there might be something else at your metagame, such as more gat, where you should use contagion instead of darkblast. If you expect jailers galore you should cut darkblast altogether...maybe and side in 4 contagions. those kill both jailer and welders. Welders hurt ichorid in many ways...mainly by removing bridges, but also by allowing dirty dirty recursion of crypt. Shop also runs like 9 sphere effects sometimes. That means you have to have the mana to bounce the spheres. I have seen an ichorid user using ingot chewer and shattering spree...but alas he failed in the long run. Ichorid is not good to run in a shop heavy/sphere heavy environment. Game one is all you but you need too much luck to get past all their sphere effects. You could use oxidize or crumble if you're a budget gamer but multiple sphere effects on turn one follwoed by land destruction turn two means good game ichorid. Play ichorid in a gat/gush/random meta an dreap the rewards. they usually board leylines/jailers...you have to watch out on pithing needle though...thats rough unless you rip chain. Some decks like deeznauts and bomberman run needle main >.< holy crap that is beast. You will usually be on turn 2-3 before it comes online though so it's all good. I have, however seen deeznauts rip land, mox,mox trinket mage for lotus, boband needle on turn one on bazhaar cuz they scouted...basids. rough case...gotta get past needle and beats for 4 up turn one. Good luck on that one chief ;~(
Good luck to all the ichorid players out there. People love to hate out ichorid but a pro player can dance around hate like it's ol'pops with the wooden ladel :> Dance *****es!
I say that wizards is a corrupt a&& company for a few reasons. It is true that people play a part in the pricing of cards. But the old addage that supply vs. demand still comes into play. WOTC inflates prices themselves also in a different way. They do not reprint powerful cards. Many more people would have access to vintage if they reprinted the power nine and other high-end staples. This would not take away from collectors at all. On the contrary; it would mean that "real" collectors could just go after alpha/beta/unlimited copies of power nine or arabian nights/legends versions of powerful cards while the less rich could own reprints. Why is this bogus? Because wizards would never reprint the power nine. They know it would take away from the secondary market for these elitists.
I know that everyone has their own opinion on how to collect and play. My opinion is my own. I am a collector of magic cards second to actually playing the game. The reason I am so frustrated is because people with unlimited funding can walk into a sanctioned event and I can not. I have bills and a life just like everyone else. I know that life is not fair and neither is magic >.< I just felt like venting and am glad to see that others agree with my squabling :>
I would like to end this rant with a true story:
I was in a store in westfield, NJ (closed down BTW) and I saw a young kid, no more than 12 years old walz into this store and demand from his father a rediculous sum of money; this kid told his dad, not asked, straight told his father his father to fork over 200 dollars. The father did and this kid proceeded to buy every hot type 2 card the shop owner had that he wanted. The kid was so happy and the father seem relieved to have appeased his son, for the time being. Meanwhile I was beholding this occurence with awe! There was a another kid, around the same age as the aforementioned kid, standing close by. He had no money, was a local kid, and was struggling to play competetively and learn magic. The kid was watching, just like me, at this spoiled brat gloating over his new cards and bragging to his friends and father about his new wares. A little after this, when the brat left, the other kid (not spoiled) went up to the counter and tried to buy a visara the dreaful. The kid emptied his entire wallet right in front of the shop owner and short by like a dollar or something, whatever the case the shop clerk denied this poor kid and sent him packing. The kid looked destroyed. I had to do somehting about this. I told the kid to come over here, which he did and I sat him down. I asked him why the shop clerk denied him he said " the guy is charging 7 dolars I only have five". GD clerk, give the kid a break! I busted out my binder and whipped out a spanking new visara the dreadful and gave it to the kid. He was so surprised! His eyes lit up and he was so happy; I had just made this kid's day by giving him this little piece of cardboard. I felt good, too, because I had given some kid happiness for a short moment. Anyways I don't know if there is any moral to this story but I do know that while money can buy happiness a little generosity can, too.
Thanks everyone for your input and your opinions. I read all your posts and thank you for your time. Feyd
For me foreign cards are very unnattractive. It is kind of like the term win-more. These people are mostly show-offs. There is an exception to this though: some foriegn cards are cheaper to their english counterparts. For some people foriegn cards are the only way they could affordably get higher end cards. For most other, these "pimps" it a way to show off. Get a job! Get some friggin english cards and be proud of your language! I see someone with a foil japanese daze and I want to smack them, seriously. Can these people have any bigger egos?
Which brings me to another point: why bother with foil cards? Now I know my way around the game and can tell you that foil cards might look nice to some people but they come at a cost. They are difficult to take care of, are more expensive than their non-foiled counterparts, and don't really prove much at all. I see many people running around saying that they will only trade for foiled cards, or that they have to make a completely foiled ichorid deck..or some such nonsense. I personally don't see the point to all this tom-foolery.
I see magic as a very fun game to play but people take it way too far. Besides the fact that many people I have met who play magic are fanatical, they are also way too willing to blow exhorbitant ammounts of money on the game. In the first place the game is a nice hobby to have but it a very expensive hobby. Too expensive if you ask me. Wizards of the coast are a bunch of crooks. Artificially inflating the prices of their cards and sucking many young adults and seasoned vets dry. Who comes up with the pricing for these frickin cards in the first place?
My main point is that while this game is fun and all it is also very elitist. I am a vintage player at heart and I find it obnoxious that every card I want to have in my deck has a nuts-ass price tag on it. The power nine are hilariously priced; no one but the super rich and super spoiled could ever hope to buy one. This leaves the rest of the gaming community without the proper cards to combat these insane decks that these richie-rich basids throw at them. Elitism is wotc's way to separate the elite and the normal peons; drop your wad on a black lotus or get the hell out of our sanctioned events. You know why they will never reprint the power nine? Because they don't want every joe schmoe competing in vintage. Sometimes it seems like it's enough to give me an aneurism. Anyway my rrant and tirade are done. I can only hope that my view is shared by someone other than me. Many gamers will read this and say, "Oh what a poor looser..haha!" and other will see exactly where I'm coming from. Well, that's that. Hope you enjoyed your read.
tolarian academy
4 flooded strand
2 underground sea
instants:(22)
4 dark ritual
2 cabal ritual
3 brainstorm
3 misdirection
sorceries:(12)
3 grim tutor
5 moxen
I have regrowth but I took that out in place of empty the warrens, put that back in? I have been desparately trying to find both lion's eye diamond and mana crypt but these cards are...apparently..as rare as chickens teeth around here...not many people in my area have them and they most certainly wont trade for em :< I have channel, but I dont have 3 living wishes, I only have one of those but could most likely get more, I have maze of ith, but no barbarian ring but that can be easily traded for methinks.
The problem I have with proxies is that the usual place I go for tournies dont allow them except if you actually own the card. Usually people bring it with them in a case but they dont wanna play with it so make a proxy instead of shuffling with it.
If I cut grim monolith, power artifact, and the meditates, what should I add in their places?
I most certainly must have force of will in there...it has saved my ass way too many times and the bluff of having one is just as important. As far as adding mana drains I think I will forego them. First of all I hate the art on this card which is a big factor in my deck making. Also, I have trouble keeping my mana open, 2 blue mana is usually not around when I need it. I usually blow my mana when I get it to cast threats or draw cards. And besdies that I never need mana to counter or misdirect a spell. you are right about it adding gas though...when I tested with these instead of misdirect it went very well but then again I want to trade these for power cards like timetwister or the blue mox.
Also mox diamonds are restricted in type 1 no?