How do you guys choose to deal with Lingering Souls? I'm not a fan of sweepers as they just keep coming back at my opponent's leisure anyway.
Lili Hope is great but if she dies or is discarded I'm left with no outs. Every Abzan game I'm firmly in the pilot's seat until Souls comes down and they grind me to a halt. As such, I've been weighing some pretty unorthodox sideboard options as I'm sick of losing to this card.
Your thoughts on Darkblast? Recurring removal at the expense of a draw step, but combines nicely with Bob and Tracker.
Illness in the Ranks - it's a narrow NOSB but it's cheap and it doesn't kill Bob while still hitting Souls, Goblins (Storm's main wincon against us) and fringe stuff like Faeries (good luck winning through it).
Perhaps Surgical Extraction is still the best option, I don't know. Either way, I'm tired of Souls and they gotta go down somehow.
I have 2 LtLH, Anger, and Night of Soul's Betrayal in my SB. I really like NoSB, but its tough since we generally want Bob in those matchups. But I guess its still the best and most worthwhile answer which is hard to remove.
I don't recommend surgical at all, usually these matchups are grindy as hell, and you really don't want surgical in such matchups. Never board it in in grindy matchups.
So, I am reporting back from the pptq I went today. Was satisfied with my finish of 3 wins, 1 loss and 1 draw to get into top 8. Unfortunately I was paired against an abysmal matchup in the top 8 and I lost the quarter finals.
Round 1 I played Grixis DS, which ended in a draw. I think I played correctly and properly, my opponent was a pretty good player, which meant it was a tough battle of exchanging resources. Gurmag and Tasigur were annoying but manageable with 4 LoTV and 3 Terminate. Since it was the first round I needed much time to consider my opnions and therefore we only finished game 2 2 min before extra turns, so we drawed then.
Round 2 I played 4 colour DS. It was basically Grixis DS with white splash for souls. The manabase was pretty greed you can imagine. I think the splash was hurting more than benefiting him, since he wanted to have a little bit of strength from each colour but overall the deck was just diluted because of this. My deck ran more smoothly and consistant for which reason I managed to win that one.
Round 3 I played Counters Company which felt incredibly easy. Ooze and loads of removal are such MVP in this matchup. My SB hate was also abysmal for my opponent: NoSB, 2 LtLH, Anger, Damnation. Felt really great nullifying my opponents Finks and E-Witts with my Ooze.
Round 4 I played BW Eldrazi, which is a tough matchup. They basically have Souls which is annoying as well as Smasher and TKS which also is hard to remove. Game 1 he beat me with 2 completey Lingering Souls. Game 2 I boarded in my Souls hate, but my opponent happened to have Smashers and TKS instead this time. I had NoSB on board but it didn't do enough. Quite sad.
Round 5 I played Burn which I won 2-0 pretty easily. I am feeling pretty comfortable playing Burn in the last few weeks, the matchups gets better and better for my record. My opponent did not have chance actually, I never had to dodge topdecks from my opponent which would kill me instantly.
At this point I got into top 8 at 5th place. I was paired against a 4 colour bring to light scapeshift, which I never ever expected. This matchup is just terrible, they have 8 scapeshifts, Remand for LoTV and my removal is all complete garbage. Discard is pretty bad against one card combo decks. You can't protect you against Topdecks through TS/IOK. Well, I did lost that one 0-2 unfortunately, but I couldn't blame my decisions, I think this matchup is close to Tron and that means something.
Overall I was satisfied, but I would have preferred it to at least go to semi finals or finals. But I do feel pretty confidant now about the mkm series which are coming up next week.
How do you guys choose to deal with Lingering Souls? I'm not a fan of sweepers as they just keep coming back at my opponent's leisure anyway.
Lili Hope is great but if she dies or is discarded I'm left with no outs. Every Abzan game I'm firmly in the pilot's seat until Souls comes down and they grind me to a halt. As such, I've been weighing some pretty unorthodox sideboard options as I'm sick of losing to this card.
Your thoughts on Darkblast? Recurring removal at the expense of a draw step, but combines nicely with Bob and Tracker.
Illness in the Ranks - it's a narrow NOSB but it's cheap and it doesn't kill Bob while still hitting Souls, Goblins (Storm's main wincon against us) and fringe stuff like Faeries (good luck winning through it).
Perhaps Surgical Extraction is still the best option, I don't know. Either way, I'm tired of Souls and they gotta go down somehow.
I don't play big sweepers like damnation. I don't like killing all of my creatures. I prefer removal that only hits some of my creatures like engineered explosives, flaying tendrils, anger of the gods, golgari charm.
I still think bgh is too situational. Yeah sometimes its better than terminate but how often its worse? There are only situational arguments for bgh to be better than terminate, no general ones. And in the end, terminate kills everything it needs to, including smasher.
I agree with your logic but Doesnt Jund want to provide upgrades to similar mainddvk cards by sideboarding? Big game hunter out of the board is stronger than terminate against grixis shadow and control because it hits the shadows and delve threats and can't be stubborn denialed.
Against grixis control it weakens their kcommands and hits the tasigurs.
Against Eldrazi decks it 1 for 1's the smasher and can also hit TKS and endbringer.
Perhaps sideboards are too tight to fit this in but it can make for an easy SB swap of 2 lightning bolts out for 2 big game hunters.
I have not tested this yet and it's all ideas right now so I could be totally wrong. I just think it's an idea worth exploring since the meta is not great for BGx right now.
The synergy might be nice but overall and most of the time, this card will just be a worse terminate for 3 mana. If I would want more hard removal I would probably play a fourth terminate over BGH.
Good point. Perhaps it would be better suited in a BG Rock deck as a sub for terminate.
Also able to kill Reality Smasher without needing to discard or pitch it to Smasher's discard clause and take out a TKS, etc. Is it a straight up replacement for Terminate? On paper, no - but given the overall meta, its not a terrible card to think about.
I'm using it in place of Terminate #3 in my list currently and loving it. It also has given me a great awkward traverse target against DS decks where they can't make you discard or you get to kill their creature for B but if they let you have it, you kill their creature anyway.
The synergy might be nice but overall and most of the time, this card will just be a worse terminate for 3 mana. If I would want more hard removal I would probably play a fourth terminate over BGH.
Good point. Perhaps it would be better suited in a BG Rock deck as a sub for terminate.
The synergy might be nice but overall and most of the time, this card will just be a worse terminate for 3 mana. If I would want more hard removal I would probably play a fourth terminate over BGH.
Good point. Perhaps it would be better suited in a BG Rock deck as a sub for terminate.
Can anyone explain why some of the Abzan decks only play 3 Lilliana of the veils and 3 total planeswalkers in the main board? Jund and most BG rock lists play 4 Lilly of the Veil.
I ask because I always play 4 and always am happy to see it into my opening hand and play it on turn 3.
The lists with 3 including sol Malkas have been puzzling to me.
Can anyone explain why some of the Abzan decks only play 3 Lilliana of the veils and 3 total planeswalkers in the main board? Jund and most BG rock lists play 4 Lilly of the Veil.
Sol Malka/Edward40Hands has been having a lot of success with his list which plays shadow of a doubt. He's the inventor of the Rock so he probably knows how to play it better than anyone.
A lot of his cards seem narrow and perhaps they are just pet cards of his. I'm not a fan of shadow but it's good against the decks you mentioned and has narrow functionally against any decks with a lot of fetches, chord.
BG Rick has been putting up some good results on MTGO and in some tourneys. Someone brought it up before but perhaps it should be a separate tread.
I have seen comments before where people want to discuss these decks and the ideas are quickly pushed to the side. I don't have time to moderate a forum but if anyone else does it could be a valuable resource to dedicated rock players.
After playing last week, have been wondering if the B microsplash was necessary. Also toying around with something a player at the shop suggested regarding the new lands.
Basically same deck, minus Souls, more consistent manabase, Game 1 answers to graveyard strategies, and a team pump to come over the top. It also has a curve closer to traditional D&T curves and addresses a wide field, while taking advantage of the strengths of the Mery list and most of the strengths of deathandcatmix's old Lingering Taxes list.
Cool list. What don't you like about lingering souls that made you want to take it out? Seems awesome in this meta.
Has anyone else been having success with a BW or Eldrazi Lingering and Taxes list? Catmix and Jeina were both doing very well with D&T lingering souls lists in the past. Would love to see what a successful updated list looks like.
Hi guys,
Last week I was busy and didn't get to play a lot but this Friday I went to FNM and I won the event (24 players, 4 rounds)!
Still using the same deck since it is working so well and I don't think that I will change anything soon.
Round 1: vs Affinity 1-1-1
First game I had to mulligan, kept 4 lands and 2 spells. Sryed a land to the bottom, drew two lands, died...
Second game I had turn 1 removal, turn 2 Stony, turn 3 Geist. He died pretty fast.
Third game was crazy. I drew way too many lands again (think I had 7 in play on turn 8 -_-) but Worship saved me. Unfortunately I couldn't win since he had Ravager and I never got to two removals. With his flying manlands + Overseer counters his defense was too good and lifelink kept him out of burn range. Neither of us managed to win within the 5 extra turns.
(I used 6 SB cards in this match-up. I think after SB my deck was favored to win.)
Round 2: vs Eldrazi Tron 2-0
First game I had two flipped Delvers on the field turn 3. He managed to get rid of them but his life total was already too low so I won the race with Geist and Burn.
Second game it was Geist vs Smasher but I won that race thanks to Deflecting Palm
(I think I used 9 SB cards here. This SB is excellent against Eldrazi Tron.)
Round 3: vs Titan Shift 2-1
First game he pulled a Titan turn 3 with ramp and Spirit Guide -_-
Second and third game I won rather quickly with Delver pressure and burn and (one game only) thanks to Disdainful Stroke.
(Only 3 efficient SB cards for this match-up.)
Round 4: vs Grixis Shadow 2-0
I was at 7 points and only one player had 9 points so I had to win to become the only player with 10 points.
Both games went perfectly.
First game he looked at my hand with Inquisition, after shocking himself to 17, only to see Bolt, Helix, Boros Charm and he saw his doom coming. After a few turns I had him at 4 and he had two 9/9 Shadows in play when I top decked a Boros Charm. I didn't draw a single creature this game, only burn spells.
Second game went completely different. I beat him down only with creatures that game--first Delver then Geist. He died to unblockable Geist (he had two Snappys but my Geist had protection from Blue) and I still had Path and Palm in hand. That quick victory felt really good.
(I used 5 SB cards here. After SB I feel pretty confident against Grixis Shadow.)
Regarding decks that go wide:
I only played against Affinity this time, but Verdict and Lavamancer are very good answers in my opinion.
Also, decks that go wide often have no answer to Worship and if you run enough burn you can still race them
Congrats Stevomat!!! That's great news. I love to read the game notes/tournament recaps, but it's also great to hear at the end of the recap that the person (yourself in this case) also won the event!
As I said before, it's a great time to be playing our deck and the longer you play the deck the better the results tend to get. Thanks for the awesome write-up and congrats again on the win!
Congrats on the success. The one area that looks a little weak is against graveyard strategies. How do you beat dredge, living end with only 2 surgicals?
Thanks for ge report. Bring to light scapeshift is not common at all so it was def bad luck.
Any changes that you would make to the deck? Would you get rid of the fulminators?
Were you happy with your graveyard hate? Was the 3 sqooze and 2 spellbomb a enough?
I don't play big sweepers like damnation. I don't like killing all of my creatures. I prefer removal that only hits some of my creatures like engineered explosives, flaying tendrils, anger of the gods, golgari charm.
I agree with your logic but Doesnt Jund want to provide upgrades to similar mainddvk cards by sideboarding? Big game hunter out of the board is stronger than terminate against grixis shadow and control because it hits the shadows and delve threats and can't be stubborn denialed.
Against grixis control it weakens their kcommands and hits the tasigurs.
Against Eldrazi decks it 1 for 1's the smasher and can also hit TKS and endbringer.
Perhaps sideboards are too tight to fit this in but it can make for an easy SB swap of 2 lightning bolts out for 2 big game hunters.
I have not tested this yet and it's all ideas right now so I could be totally wrong. I just think it's an idea worth exploring since the meta is not great for BGx right now.
Thanks for sharing. I look forward to your results.
Can you share your list?
This is also true. Have you done any testing with it?
Good point. Perhaps it would be better suited in a BG Rock deck as a sub for terminate.
It has good synergy with Lilliana, collective brutality and can be pitched when you get hit with a kcommand.
Has anyone done extensive testing with it?
I think it can work even outside of a traverse list by replacing your weak removal (bolt) in a matchup.
I ask because I always play 4 and always am happy to see it into my opening hand and play it on turn 3.
The lists with 3 including sol Malkas have been puzzling to me.
I agree with 4th Lilly. Lilly lost hope as 1 in board is also very strong.
How did the grim fosters work for you? Did you face any RIP or Relic? I usually like trackers or Gideon's to counteract he GY hate.
A lot of his cards seem narrow and perhaps they are just pet cards of his. I'm not a fan of shadow but it's good against the decks you mentioned and has narrow functionally against any decks with a lot of fetches, chord.
BG Rick has been putting up some good results on MTGO and in some tourneys. Someone brought it up before but perhaps it should be a separate tread.
I have seen comments before where people want to discuss these decks and the ideas are quickly pushed to the side. I don't have time to moderate a forum but if anyone else does it could be a valuable resource to dedicated rock players.
Cool list. What don't you like about lingering souls that made you want to take it out? Seems awesome in this meta.
Has anyone else been having success with a BW or Eldrazi Lingering and Taxes list? Catmix and Jeina were both doing very well with D&T lingering souls lists in the past. Would love to see what a successful updated list looks like.
Congrats on the success. The one area that looks a little weak is against graveyard strategies. How do you beat dredge, living end with only 2 surgicals?