Also this new card seems like a good fit to the deck:
Charnel Troll - 1BG
Creature - Troll
Trample
At the beginning of your upkeep, exile a creature card in your graveyard. If you do, put a +1/+1 counter on Charnel Troll. Sacrifice it otherwise.
BG, Discard a creature card: Put a +1/+1 counter on Charnel Troll.
Playing this on t3 and on the beginning of t4 discarding a Bloodhall Ooze or Experiment One before the trigger seems like a profitable play. However, it might need a bit more manipulation of the gy.
I really enjoy the play style, but cannot say it's even t2 competitive, however, it wins from time to time against Merfolk, Mardu Pyromancer, Burn etc. Still haven't played against Humans, Jund. Had a horrible match against Blue Tron though.
I believe Rancor is the most important one, especially with the deathtouch creatures (any blocker has 1 toughness against a trampling deathtoucher), which you play 5 of, then comes Vines of Vastwood as it is so versatile. I would start cutting Aspect of Hydras and always keep Rancor and Vines of Vastwood as 4 ofs.
I think we are on the same spot on all the points except one: don't you need a mainboard creature removal? I find mainboard 2 or 3 Dismembers invaluable as it not only removes chump blockers but also removes Tasigurs, Goyfs, Hollow Ones. Also you can kill your own creature that gets blocked by or your own blocker that blocks a Wurmcoil or a lifelink bogle to prevent the opponent from gaining life.
Also, do you have a sideboard list in mind?
In the Wurmcoil blocking our creature scenario. Isn't it better to just dismember the wurm, turning it into a 1/1? The opponent gains only 1 life, and we get to trample through some damage if our creature had trample.
Yeah, in that scenario it's mostly better to hit the Wurmcoil with dismember, unless that 1 gained life will keep the opponent alive of course, but if we are blocking, then not killing the wurmcoil is mostly better as otherwise they would have 2 blockers on our combat phase next turn.
I think we are on the same spot on all the points except one: don't you need a mainboard creature removal? I find mainboard 2 or 3 Dismembers invaluable as it not only removes chump blockers but also removes Tasigurs, Goyfs, Hollow Ones. Also you can kill your own creature that gets blocked by or your own blocker that blocks a Wurmcoil or a lifelink bogle to prevent the opponent from gaining life.
I really don't understand the reasoning behind mana dorks. It basically comes down to this:
- What do you want to ramp into?
- A 3 cmc creature on turn 2.
- So you definitely need to play this mana dork on turn 1 to achieve this goal?
- Yes.
Which part of this makes sense to you guys? I am really having a hard time convincing myself. If you want to play a mana dork for devotion to aspect, play Wheel of Sun and Moon, Shapers' Sanctuary, or even Evolutionary Leap.
Depends on the situation really. You might want to overcommit to the board if you have a 3/3 or bigger E1 with a geist, or you have Heroic Intervention in hand, or even want to make sure a wrath is used before playing that Dungrove Elder that you think will close out the game in 1 or 2 turns.
I have no problem drawing E1 in turns 2 or 3, or even 4. A turn 4 play of E1 + Geist + rancor or 1 mana up is still a strong play. My point is if your goal is to ramp into a 3 drop, then it means you should play a mana dork on turn 1, right? That's why I also wanted to see the list.
A card saying "play me on turn 1 or i'm a chump blocker" is not of stompy material. If a counter argument would be it can attack the next turn, then drawing into a manland or even a fetchland to fetch a Dryad Arbor are better options.
But what if you end up having a hand with just 1 or 2 cmc creatures, or no ramp and some 3 cmc ones? Both cases are highly likely as you will most probably run 4x mana dork and 6-7x 3 cmc creatures. I guess a top deck mana dork would make you lose more games than a turn 2 3cmc creature wins you games.
However, I would like to see a list, and of course would be happy to see you having success with it. It's just I feel like our 3 drops are not powerful enough to ramp into. As the only "ramping into" play is a turn 1 mana dork, unlike other decks that you can play your ramp spells/creatures in turn 2-3-4 and on turn 4-5-6 you can play 7-8-9 cmc spells which are worth ramping into.
Charnel Troll - 1BG
Creature - Troll
Trample
At the beginning of your upkeep, exile a creature card in your graveyard. If you do, put a +1/+1 counter on Charnel Troll. Sacrifice it otherwise.
BG, Discard a creature card: Put a +1/+1 counter on Charnel Troll.
Playing this on t3 and on the beginning of t4 discarding a Bloodhall Ooze or Experiment One before the trigger seems like a profitable play. However, it might need a bit more manipulation of the gy.
4 Bloodhall Ooze
4 Experiment One
4 Narnam Renegade
4 Avatar of the Resolute
4 Winding Constrictor
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
Planeswalkers
2 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
Enchantments
4 Hardened Scales
Instants
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Fatal Push
1 Dismember
2 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Blooming Marsh
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Blood Crypt
2 Stomping Ground
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Raging Ravine
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Damnation
2 Damping Sphere
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Spike Feeder
2 Thoughtseize
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Torpor Orb
I really enjoy the play style, but cannot say it's even t2 competitive, however, it wins from time to time against Merfolk, Mardu Pyromancer, Burn etc. Still haven't played against Humans, Jund. Had a horrible match against Blue Tron though.
Yeah, in that scenario it's mostly better to hit the Wurmcoil with dismember, unless that 1 gained life will keep the opponent alive of course, but if we are blocking, then not killing the wurmcoil is mostly better as otherwise they would have 2 blockers on our combat phase next turn.
Also, do you have a sideboard list in mind?
- What do you want to ramp into?
- A 3 cmc creature on turn 2.
- So you definitely need to play this mana dork on turn 1 to achieve this goal?
- Yes.
Which part of this makes sense to you guys? I am really having a hard time convincing myself. If you want to play a mana dork for devotion to aspect, play Wheel of Sun and Moon, Shapers' Sanctuary, or even Evolutionary Leap.
A card saying "play me on turn 1 or i'm a chump blocker" is not of stompy material. If a counter argument would be it can attack the next turn, then drawing into a manland or even a fetchland to fetch a Dryad Arbor are better options.
However, I would like to see a list, and of course would be happy to see you having success with it. It's just I feel like our 3 drops are not powerful enough to ramp into. As the only "ramping into" play is a turn 1 mana dork, unlike other decks that you can play your ramp spells/creatures in turn 2-3-4 and on turn 4-5-6 you can play 7-8-9 cmc spells which are worth ramping into.