Mana dorks need a lot of investment and the payoff is not high in stompy. They die to every any kind of removal out there, and what they do is cast a 4/5 on turn 2 that will get chump blocked when it swings, or at best cast a 5/4 on turn 2 that will die to a smaller portion (which is still a huge set) of removals. And you'll end up having a mana dork on the battlefield with almost no other effect to the game, well maybe except chump blocking in later turns.
@The Fluff: How many 1 drops are you playing? I'm running 3 playsets of 1 drops with 8 fetches and I'm running only 2 Leatherback Baloths, so I'm planning to just replace those 2 with the new elf. However, for no fetches build I'd play 2 playsets of 1 drops, 4 elf + 2 baloth and 2x Blossoming Defense with 22 lands probably. I wouldn't want my 3 drops to get path'ed or push'ed easily.
Trying to deploy Geist as a blocker is a good idea. What I try to do in priority order is
1- Keep up dismember on turn 1
2- play militant on t1 to prevent faithless looting flashbacks
3- play experiment one on turn 1 if you can grow it to a 3/3 on turn 2
However, the most important is to untap with a Scooze at latest on turn 4, or on turn 5 if you have enough chump blockers. if you have one in hand do chump in early turns with whatever you can and then play the Scooze.
and even then I mostly stared down on Mutant's Prey that were in my hand without legal targets on the board. But if you had any success with that card, I'd love to hear.
@amicdeep Thanks. I've been playing the deck for almost 3 years and since the printing of Narnam Renegade I was trying to come up with a build that utilizes them as I always needed a 3rd set of 1-drop. On to your suggestions.
Firstly, the key to success with stompy is keeping the deck consistent. Once we start playing cards x and y because "x and y together on the battlefield is strong", the deck falls apart as we don't have any ways to filter and find the cards we are looking for. There are of course plays like "It's better if I play Experiment One first so that I can evolve it later", but even this has exceptions like "I need to play Dryad Militant on turn 1 against this deck". But Greenbelt Rampager feels clunky if it cannot hit the board on early turns with an Experiment One on the battlefield. This is a really serious requirement that we should avoid.
Greenbelt Rampager: I've tried this one for some time, it is good but it serves as a revolt enabler only. I don't want to have a 3/3 Experiment One on turn 2, I want to have any of these:
Tireless Tracker: I've thought a lot about this card, in the end I decided not to include it because of low devotion to Aspect of Hydra and the only 3/2 initial body. However I didn't try it and I want to in the future.
Rhonas the Indomitable: Never tried it as I feel it restricts our gameplay. We need to keep another creature in the battlefield to be able to benefit from this guy. Also, again, only 1 devotion to Aspect of Hydra.
Nature's Way: Never tried this one either as I don't like 2 mana fight cards, I know this is not a fight card but similar. I will give it a shot but I can say I've never felt the need of it.
Match 4 – Storm 2-1 – on the draw
Game 1: I kept a 1 forest, 1 fetchland, Treetop Village, 2xAvatar of the Resolute , Leatherback Baloth. On my first 3 turns I drew e1, then dismember, then another e1. They miss their turn 2 land. I always kept a mana up for dismember and on turn 4 I dismember their Baral, Chief of Compliance as Desperate Ritual is on the stack. They then Grapeshot my 2/2 Experiment One, Strangleroot Geist, and 1/1 Experiment One in the wrong order and I ended up having a 3/3 e1, 3/2 geist and 3 lands one of which is treetop, and they being at 9 tapped out.
In: 2x Relic of Progenitus, 2x Prey Upon
Out: 2x Leatherback Baloth, 1x Aspect of Hydra, 1x Experiment One
Game 2: I kept a Experiment One, Strangleroot Geist, Dismember, Rancor and 3 lands. Removed their first creature but then drew only lands, they got me on turn 5 at 2 life.
In and Out: no change
Game 3: I kept a 1 fetch + 1 forest, 2x Narnam Renegade, Dryad Militant, Scavenging Ooze and Vines of Vastwood. Didn’t want to expose militant to a removal on turn 1 so I played one of the narnams. By turn 3 I had a narnam, an avatar and a militant and they played Anger of Gods. I lost all my creatures but then built again with another fetch + 2x Narnam Renegades. On their turn 5 they played a creature and passed, on my turn 6 I dropped them down to 6 with narnams and played a Scavenging Ooze with 3 mana up and a 1 card hand which is Vines of Vastwood. They knew about it because of the Opt from previous turn. They bolted my ooze the next turn, I vines it, then they build towards storm count, they didn’t have enough and went for my narnams instead. In 2 turn I got the win with Treetop Village, a 4/4 Scavenging Ooze and enough mana up to eat stuff from gy if needed.
Match 5 – Eldrazi Tron 2-0 – on the play
Game 1: I had a 1 forest + 1 fetch, Narnam Renegade, 2x Strangleroot Geist, 2x Aspect of Hydra hand on 7, which can be quite explosive against lots of decks, so I kept. They couldn’t find their second land on turn 2. I drew into double Dryad Militants, they Warping Wailed my geist on their turn 3 but double aspect had them dead on turn 4.
In: 2x Natural State, 2x Deglamer, 2x Pithing Needle
Out: 3x Dryad Militant, 2xVines of Vastwood, Leatherback Baloth
Game 2: I had a good hand with 2 Avatar of Resolutes, Experiment One, 3 lands and a Deglamer. The game was similar to game 1 in terms of their removal but this time they had the lands on each turn. However drawing into another E1, another Avatar and a Rancor had the job done on turn 5. I also always had a Deglamer that I never needed.
So, overall I’m quite happy with the performance of the deck. I know the friendly league is not the most competetive place to play but being able to have consistent 4-1s feels good.
Playing shocks to make dismember cheaper requires you to play that shockland tapped. Also, Abrupt Decay or Fatal Push can only kill Tarmogoyf from the creatures I listed, Path to Exile deals with any of them but going 2 colors would change the deck completely. WG value and BG rock are both better than Gx Stompy.
For fight cards the problem is mana efficiency. I don't think any of the 2 mana cards is usable, they slow down your gameplay a lot. For example I want to be able to cast Narnam on turn 1, equip rancor on turn 2 and hold up 1 green for dismember or vines. But also it depends on the meta a lot I guess.
lastly in your 75 yoru running 4 dismember, i would keep this to two and add in 2 fight style removal effect (Nature's Way is normally considered the best option for a third dismember) the reason for this is after casing 2 dismembers you have lost 8 life which is a huge amount to loose and very hard to make up after three you've lost 12 and if you ever manage to cast all 4 your life will be on 4 which isn't a great place to win from
So yeah, not that much, but tell me what you think about Loaming Shaman.
I'd play Wheel of Sun and Moon instead. Also it has 1 more devotion for aspect for 1 less mana, and also it doesn't die to bolt If you want something for BR Hollow One I guess our best bet is Tormod's Crypt as even Relic of Progenitus is slow for that matchup, let alone a 3 cmc card. And for Lantern matchup I don't think you can keep Loaming Shaman in hand as a topdeck hand disruption gets rid of it.
-Edit- Now that I'm thinking, it's the Hollow Ones that are causing the problem, not the creatures that come from the graveyard. Then I guess Relic is superior to Tormod's Crypt still.
I've thought about Oran-Rief, the Vastwood vs. Llanowar Reborn a lot and both have advantages on their own. I've chosen the latter as it doesn't require me to spend mana to have the counter, I feel like the former would be a lot better in a tokens shell. Maybe a 1 of can be useful, it's just I felt I had 2 spots for tap lands and given priority to Llanowar Reborn on both spots.
I'll go to a FNM tonight and instead of a classic stompy deck, I want to play with something fancier. It has the classic stompy shell with some adjustments to be able to play Hardened Scales. I've been playing with a similar list on mtgo (-2 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar, -1 Scavenging Ooze and +2 Great Sable Stag, +1 Wheel of Sun and Moon) and it's a fun deck to play with and to some extent a powerful one also. I have an acceptable win percentage in 2 man queues, but I don't think it's optimized enough to play in a league so I never gave them a shot.
My biggest concern is not having a place for Dryad Militant. Any of you guys played something similar before?
Edit: Maybe I can go down 1 Scavenging Ooze and 1 Natural State and go up 2 Mutant's Prey in the sideboard. Might help against storm, which ooze is mostly slow agains, and shadow decks.
Mana dorks need a lot of investment and the payoff is not high in stompy. They die to every any kind of removal out there, and what they do is cast a 4/5 on turn 2 that will get chump blocked when it swings, or at best cast a 5/4 on turn 2 that will die to a smaller portion (which is still a huge set) of removals. And you'll end up having a mana dork on the battlefield with almost no other effect to the game, well maybe except chump blocking in later turns.
Lifecrafter's Bestiary - You might want to play Greenbelt Rampager with this one, they synergize well together
1- Keep up dismember on turn 1
2- play militant on t1 to prevent faithless looting flashbacks
3- play experiment one on turn 1 if you can grow it to a 3/3 on turn 2
However, the most important is to untap with a Scooze at latest on turn 4, or on turn 5 if you have enough chump blockers. if you have one in hand do chump in early turns with whatever you can and then play the Scooze.
2x Simic Initiate
2x Servant of the Scale
4x Experiment One
4x Narnam Renegade
4x Strangleroot Geist
4x Avatar of the Resolute
2x Scavenging Ooze
2x Llanowar Reborn
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
2x Spike Feeder
and even then I mostly stared down on Mutant's Prey that were in my hand without legal targets on the board. But if you had any success with that card, I'd love to hear.
Firstly, the key to success with stompy is keeping the deck consistent. Once we start playing cards x and y because "x and y together on the battlefield is strong", the deck falls apart as we don't have any ways to filter and find the cards we are looking for. There are of course plays like "It's better if I play Experiment One first so that I can evolve it later", but even this has exceptions like "I need to play Dryad Militant on turn 1 against this deck". But Greenbelt Rampager feels clunky if it cannot hit the board on early turns with an Experiment One on the battlefield. This is a really serious requirement that we should avoid.
Greenbelt Rampager: I've tried this one for some time, it is good but it serves as a revolt enabler only. I don't want to have a 3/3 Experiment One on turn 2, I want to have any of these:
Tireless Tracker: I've thought a lot about this card, in the end I decided not to include it because of low devotion to Aspect of Hydra and the only 3/2 initial body. However I didn't try it and I want to in the future.
Rhonas the Indomitable: Never tried it as I feel it restricts our gameplay. We need to keep another creature in the battlefield to be able to benefit from this guy. Also, again, only 1 devotion to Aspect of Hydra.
Nature's Way: Never tried this one either as I don't like 2 mana fight cards, I know this is not a fight card but similar. I will give it a shot but I can say I've never felt the need of it.
4x Dryad Militant
4x Narnam Renegade
2x Scavenging Ooze
4x Strangleroot Geist
4x Avatar of the Resolute
2x Leatherback Baloth
4x Rancor
4x Vines of Vastwood
4x Aspect of Hydra
3x Treetop Village
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
1x Dryad Arbor
9x Forest
1x Torpor Orb
2x Pithing Needle
2x Relic of Progenitus
2x Prey Upon
2x Natural State
2x Deglamer
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
1x Dungrove Elder
1x Pulse of Murasa
1x Feed the Clan
I’ve had a 3-2, 3x 4-1s and a 5-0 (which I have a summary below).
3-2:
UW Emeria 2-0
Bogles 2-1
Eldrazi Tron 1-2
Jund 2-0
RG Valakut 1-2
4-1:
Mono Green Tron 0-2
Temur Marvel 2-1
Mono Blue Tron 2-0
RG (Courser of Kruphix, Utopia Strawl, Tireless Tracker, Inferno Titan, Huntmaster of the Fells etc.) 2-0
RG (very similar with above + Chandra, Torch of Defiance) 2-1
4-1:
Mono Blue Tron 2-1
Bogles 2-1
UW Spirits 0-2
Merfolk 2-1
Jeskai Control (I guess without JtMS) 2-0
4-1:
Bloodbraid Ponza 2-0
Bloodbraid Jund 1-2
BR Hollow One 2-0
Boros Burn 2-0
Eldrazi Tron 2-1
And then the last league:
Match 1 – Mono red burn 2-0 – on the draw
Game 1 – I mulled a one Treetop Village 7, then got a 2x Treetop Village+a Forest, with Aspect of Hydra, Rancor and Dismember. Thought I was doomed, kept it, scry’ed Avatar of the Resolute on top. Guess the opponent had a slow hand and killed them on turn 5.
In: Feed the Clan, Pulse of Murasa, Dungrove Elder
Out: 3xDismember
Game 2 – I kept a 2 lands hand with a 1-drop, 2x 3-drops, vines and Feed the Clan. The opponent tapped out for Skullcrack at the end of my turn 4 when I was at 6 and had Leatherback Baloth in play and Feed the Clan in hand. It was basically game over there as I was at 13 with them at 2 cards.
Match 2 – Eldrazi Tron 2-0 – on the play
Game 1 – I kept a 2x Dryad Militant, Aspect of Hydra, Vines of Vastwood, Treetop Village + 2 lands. Once I realized they were on some kind of tron I tried to get in damage as quick as possible (like turn 1 militant, turn 2 militant + aspect, turn 3 treetop + vines). Killed their Endbringer with another Aspect of Hydra on turn 4. They didn’t draw another big one so I had game 1.
In: 2x Natural State, 2x Deglamer, 2x Pithing Needle
Out: 2x Scavenging Ooze, 4x Vines of Vastwood
Game 2 – I had a 2 fetchland + militant + 3x Avatar of the Resolute, hand, which is great against a Chalice of the Void on 1. I played militant and then on their turn 2 they played the chalice on 1. They had a Walking Ballista and 2x Warping Wails from what I saw but drawing into Treetop Village and Strangleroot Geist in turns 3 and 4 helped me get the win.
Match 3 – Jund 2-1 – on the draw
Game 1 – I kept a 2 fetch lands + Dryad Arbor, Dryad Militant, Avatar of the Resolute, Strangleroot Geist and a Aspect of Hydra hand, which is almost perfect. They Collective Brutality’ed my militant and played a Scavenging Ooze on turn 3. Then they made the mistake of blocking my geist, planning to eat militant from gy, I casted Aspect of Hydra that I drew on turn 2, traded with the scooze, then played Narnam Renegade with revolt and had 1 mana up for Vines of Vastwood. On their 4th turn they Bloodbraid Elf into Abrupt Decay onto my +1/+1 countered geist, I protected with vines and they didn’t attack. On my next turn I drew aspect, played the Dryad Arbor and Avatar of the Resolute, and attacked, they blocked my geist which i pumped with aspect. At this point they had 4 lands + 4 cards and at 14, I had no cards in hand but a creature land, narnam, geist and avatar in play. They played Liliana of the Veil and made me sac the creature land. In the remaining two turns I ignored Lili, drew a Dismember for their Tarmogoyf they didn’t have enough removal.
In: Pulse of Murasa, 2x Pithing Needle, Thrun, the Last Troll, Dungrove Elder
Out: 2x Rancor, 3x Aspect of Hydra
Game 2 – I had Strangleroot Geist, Scavenging Ooze, Pulse of Murasa + 4 non-treetop lands. I said not bad and kept. I drew 4 lands then vines and 2x narnams in the coming turns but their Scavenging Ooze and Liliana of the Last Hope took the game in the long run.
In: 1x Aspect of Hydra, 1x Prey Upon
Out: 2x Pithing Needle
Game 3 – I kept a 1 forest, Treetop Village, Prey Upon, Dismember, Narnam Renegade, Strangleroot Geist, Avatar of the Resolute . Played the manland and passed. Opponent double Lightning Bolted my turn 2 geist, and played a Tarmogoyf on turn 3, which I Prey Uponed with a 1/2 narnam. With revolt I played another narnam to grow my Experiment One to a 3/3. Until turn 6 we both had 2 lands, but by then I had played 2x Avatar of the Resolutes. They played a Scavenging Ooze on turn 5 and Maelstrom Pulsed the avatars on turn 6 after playing a land. Though I had enough creatures to push through with a Dismember still in hand.
Match 4 – Storm 2-1 – on the draw
Game 1: I kept a 1 forest, 1 fetchland, Treetop Village, 2xAvatar of the Resolute , Leatherback Baloth. On my first 3 turns I drew e1, then dismember, then another e1. They miss their turn 2 land. I always kept a mana up for dismember and on turn 4 I dismember their Baral, Chief of Compliance as Desperate Ritual is on the stack. They then Grapeshot my 2/2 Experiment One, Strangleroot Geist, and 1/1 Experiment One in the wrong order and I ended up having a 3/3 e1, 3/2 geist and 3 lands one of which is treetop, and they being at 9 tapped out.
In: 2x Relic of Progenitus, 2x Prey Upon
Out: 2x Leatherback Baloth, 1x Aspect of Hydra, 1x Experiment One
Game 2: I kept a Experiment One, Strangleroot Geist, Dismember, Rancor and 3 lands. Removed their first creature but then drew only lands, they got me on turn 5 at 2 life.
In and Out: no change
Game 3: I kept a 1 fetch + 1 forest, 2x Narnam Renegade, Dryad Militant, Scavenging Ooze and Vines of Vastwood. Didn’t want to expose militant to a removal on turn 1 so I played one of the narnams. By turn 3 I had a narnam, an avatar and a militant and they played Anger of Gods. I lost all my creatures but then built again with another fetch + 2x Narnam Renegades. On their turn 5 they played a creature and passed, on my turn 6 I dropped them down to 6 with narnams and played a Scavenging Ooze with 3 mana up and a 1 card hand which is Vines of Vastwood. They knew about it because of the Opt from previous turn. They bolted my ooze the next turn, I vines it, then they build towards storm count, they didn’t have enough and went for my narnams instead. In 2 turn I got the win with Treetop Village, a 4/4 Scavenging Ooze and enough mana up to eat stuff from gy if needed.
Match 5 – Eldrazi Tron 2-0 – on the play
Game 1: I had a 1 forest + 1 fetch, Narnam Renegade, 2x Strangleroot Geist, 2x Aspect of Hydra hand on 7, which can be quite explosive against lots of decks, so I kept. They couldn’t find their second land on turn 2. I drew into double Dryad Militants, they Warping Wailed my geist on their turn 3 but double aspect had them dead on turn 4.
In: 2x Natural State, 2x Deglamer, 2x Pithing Needle
Out: 3x Dryad Militant, 2xVines of Vastwood, Leatherback Baloth
Game 2: I had a good hand with 2 Avatar of Resolutes, Experiment One, 3 lands and a Deglamer. The game was similar to game 1 in terms of their removal but this time they had the lands on each turn. However drawing into another E1, another Avatar and a Rancor had the job done on turn 5. I also always had a Deglamer that I never needed.
So, overall I’m quite happy with the performance of the deck. I know the friendly league is not the most competetive place to play but being able to have consistent 4-1s feels good.
From the packs of the 5-0 I got one invocation Blood Moon, one Infernal Tutor and one Azusa, Lost but Seeking, which I sold immediately.
For fight cards the problem is mana efficiency. I don't think any of the 2 mana cards is usable, they slow down your gameplay a lot. For example I want to be able to cast Narnam on turn 1, equip rancor on turn 2 and hold up 1 green for dismember or vines. But also it depends on the meta a lot I guess.
I play with 3 Dismembers in main for a long time and I am very happy with that number. I also side 2 Prey Upons as I'm running 8 fetches with Narnam Renegades. The reason for the 3 dismembers is not that I want to cast all 3 of them each game but I want to answer a turn 2 Gurmag Angler, Tasigur, the Golden Fang, Hollow One or Tarmogoyf.
I'd play Wheel of Sun and Moon instead. Also it has 1 more devotion for aspect for 1 less mana, and also it doesn't die to bolt If you want something for BR Hollow One I guess our best bet is Tormod's Crypt as even Relic of Progenitus is slow for that matchup, let alone a 3 cmc card. And for Lantern matchup I don't think you can keep Loaming Shaman in hand as a topdeck hand disruption gets rid of it.
-Edit- Now that I'm thinking, it's the Hollow Ones that are causing the problem, not the creatures that come from the graveyard. Then I guess Relic is superior to Tormod's Crypt still.
4 Experiment One
4 Narnam Renegade
2 Simic Initiate
2 Servant of the Scale
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Avatar of the Resolute
2 Scavenging Ooze
Enchantments
4 Hardened Scales
4 Rancor
2 Blossoming Defense
4 Vines of Vastwood
3 Dismember
Lands
2 Llanowar Reborn
11 Forest
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Deglamer
2 Pithing Needle
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Spike Feeder
1 Heroic Intervention
2 Natural State
2 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
1 Scavenging Ooze
I'll go to a FNM tonight and instead of a classic stompy deck, I want to play with something fancier. It has the classic stompy shell with some adjustments to be able to play Hardened Scales. I've been playing with a similar list on mtgo (-2 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar, -1 Scavenging Ooze and +2 Great Sable Stag, +1 Wheel of Sun and Moon) and it's a fun deck to play with and to some extent a powerful one also. I have an acceptable win percentage in 2 man queues, but I don't think it's optimized enough to play in a league so I never gave them a shot.
My biggest concern is not having a place for Dryad Militant. Any of you guys played something similar before?
Edit: Maybe I can go down 1 Scavenging Ooze and 1 Natural State and go up 2 Mutant's Prey in the sideboard. Might help against storm, which ooze is mostly slow agains, and shadow decks.