Awesome deck,just wondering how do you close out games with this deck? Shame Zacama can't shoot to the face too.
I noticed before you had Purphoros that could work with the infinite bouncing. But can't see it in your deck anymore. Hope your guide to how to play this comes out soon!
Don't get me wrong, I do love tar pit and I agree that it answers our Planeswalker problems, but I am already running 4 darkslick shores in my list and my problem is that I might flood on blue and black mana.
Agree on the black expertise, might change it to something else. BTW, how does LOTV go for you? I love its 2nd ability but the 1st one is equally devastating to us IMO since we are also losing cards from our hand.
Currently running 2 copies of Jace, Vryn's Prodigy. Been really nice in the deck overall. Plus you can activate him during your turn or their turn to activate Revolt on Fatal Push.
I might be running a similar list to you. I'm going for 3 Jace. Good looter. Good bait for a removal spell. Good flash backer.
I'm running 3 Ashiok and damn she's good.
This is what I'm running. I'm more midrange and ripping someone's hand apart. Thanks to Snappy and Clique.
I use to run Grim Flayers. But I switched it to two Cliques main board. I felt that I had too many two drops and Clique had alot more impact hitting the board.
its a first draft, thats why theres a lot of 4 and 2 ofs
sultai doesnt have old trusty lingering souls to grind people out but ancestral vision and snapcaster mage can play the same game
so what do you think? better or worse than abzan/jund/bg? maybe different?
I feel that ancestral visions does not go well with a Rock type deck.
Ancestral Visions is such a bad top deck card. In a deck where you are aiming to go top decking with your opponent with Liliana, ancestral visions doesn't work.
Liliana is strongest when you're ticking her +1 and then you've got Bob to help gain card advantage. Maybe just switch out AV for serum visions.
I play Jund/Abzan and Jeskai/Grixis but the printing of Fatal Push solves the efficient 1CMC removal that BUG/Sultai sorely needs. For those with experience piloting the deck, has anyone tried playing a more controlling version with permission spells and card draw/filtering rather than the midrangey with discards? I'm thinking of throwing good stuffs together into something like this:
This is just a rough draft. Lily seems lackluster without discards and is a nombo when you want to hold counterspells. 2 is probably the right number. A playset of Snaps feels excessive too and underwhelming without bolts. If I go the tempo route with Delver, Temur and Grixis is obviously superior.
Would confidant work in control?
Do you want them to know your upcoming counterspells?
I've had only some testing and adjustments are required of course. Some thoughts of what I've tested.
Jace: Jace is surprising great in this deck. He can loot for answers early game or land drops. He's a great target for removal as a creature. Which is an awesome thing. Which means less removal for our key pieces such as Restoration angel, Kiki-Jiki or Deceiver Exarch. Then he also flips, which is value, flashbacks or weakening a creature.
Declaration in Stone: I only run one. The reason is that I would rather draw into it if needed. I use Paths and Bolts for early creatures. Declaration in Stone is for a bigger board and it could wipe out tokens, without giving investigate. Or hey it could take out 2 Goyfs. Giving an opponent investigate is not too bad. Depending on the deck.
Kiki-Jiki: Now i'm not sure whether 3 or 2 is the correct amount. For now 3 seems like a good number. And I've been able to combo off him. I feel like if I shave off one Kiki, then getting it would be ablot more inconsistent. Further testing will be required.
Future:
Pact of Negation: I've been thinking of replacing one cryptic for a Pact. So that I could protect the combo when going off. I believe tapping out and opponent will suspect a pact. If I can protect the combo then I win. It doesn't matter about paying the cost next turn, because there will not be a next turn.
I need to work out how to deal with a Tron match up. Any thoughts on this would be great!
I noticed before you had Purphoros that could work with the infinite bouncing. But can't see it in your deck anymore. Hope your guide to how to play this comes out soon!
Can't wait!
I run 3 Fatal, 3 Abrupt and 2 Dismember. Thinking of cutting one abrupt for another stubborn denial ( had 3 ).
Running 3 Snapcasters at the moment. That's why I'm not going full playset of fatal.
Play with Bobs
I might be running a similar list to you. I'm going for 3 Jace. Good looter. Good bait for a removal spell. Good flash backer.
I'm running 3 Ashiok and damn she's good.
This is what I'm running. I'm more midrange and ripping someone's hand apart. Thanks to Snappy and Clique.
I use to run Grim Flayers. But I switched it to two Cliques main board. I felt that I had too many two drops and Clique had alot more impact hitting the board.
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Slaughter Pact
2 Thoughtseize
3 Serum Visions
4 Fatal Push
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Watery Grave
2 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Island
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Swamp
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Polluted Delta
1 Slaughter Pact
2 Pithing Needle
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Collective Brutality
2 Countersquall
2 Spellskite
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Kitchen Finks
I feel that ancestral visions does not go well with a Rock type deck.
Ancestral Visions is such a bad top deck card. In a deck where you are aiming to go top decking with your opponent with Liliana, ancestral visions doesn't work.
Liliana is strongest when you're ticking her +1 and then you've got Bob to help gain card advantage. Maybe just switch out AV for serum visions.
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Serum Visions
4 Fatal Push
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
1 Breeding Pool
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Swamp
1 Watery Grave
2 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Darkslick Shores
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
Excuse the mana base which needs work and also the sideboard.
Going for a midrange deck.
Would confidant work in control?
Do you want them to know your upcoming counterspells?
I've read some posts beating affinity.
Any tips guys?
Plus two colours.
Video Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PL04lbfeNAaS830ZWcpGOH_rzY-MhPLQFQ&v=iPAs32LyuWA
I've made a few adjustments.
3 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Wall of Omens
1 Deceiver Exarcg
1 Vendillion Clique
4 Restoration Angel
3 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Non-Creatures:
3 Lightning Bolts
3 Path to Exile
4 Serum Visions
1 Declaration in Stone
3 Remand
1 Electrolyze
2 Cryptic Command
2 Arid Mesa
2 Cascade Bluffs
2 Celestial Colonnade
2 Flooded Strand
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Islands
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
2 Sulfur Falls
2 Wandering Fumerole
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Spellskite
2 Dispel
2 Wear//Tear
2 NEgate
2 Pyroclasm
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
1 Wrath of God
I've had only some testing and adjustments are required of course. Some thoughts of what I've tested.
Jace: Jace is surprising great in this deck. He can loot for answers early game or land drops. He's a great target for removal as a creature. Which is an awesome thing. Which means less removal for our key pieces such as Restoration angel, Kiki-Jiki or Deceiver Exarch. Then he also flips, which is value, flashbacks or weakening a creature.
Declaration in Stone: I only run one. The reason is that I would rather draw into it if needed. I use Paths and Bolts for early creatures. Declaration in Stone is for a bigger board and it could wipe out tokens, without giving investigate. Or hey it could take out 2 Goyfs. Giving an opponent investigate is not too bad. Depending on the deck.
Kiki-Jiki: Now i'm not sure whether 3 or 2 is the correct amount. For now 3 seems like a good number. And I've been able to combo off him. I feel like if I shave off one Kiki, then getting it would be ablot more inconsistent. Further testing will be required.
Future:
Pact of Negation: I've been thinking of replacing one cryptic for a Pact. So that I could protect the combo when going off. I believe tapping out and opponent will suspect a pact. If I can protect the combo then I win. It doesn't matter about paying the cost next turn, because there will not be a next turn.
I need to work out how to deal with a Tron match up. Any thoughts on this would be great!
Wouldn't work on Eldrazi deck as most eldrazi has "cast" effect.
And some spells you've mention is only when it enters the battlefield such as Thought-knot and Vendillion. So it won't be able to counter it.