MTG Salvation

Quote from EYEKarus »

would like to know your reasoning for:
Elspeth, sun's champion
Gideon jura
shambling vents

I wanted two cards for grindy matchups/mirror. The options are basically Bloodbaron/Baneslayer, BAtterskull, 2nd Gideon (or 4th Rhino), Painful Truths or a planeswalker. Ideally the card would be good against BGx, Grixis Variants, Twin (post board they ALWAYS grind) and Collected Company Zoo decks. The lifegain options are better against zoo, but not resilient enough vs BG, Grixis. So it came down to a planeswalker or second painful truths. Truths isn't very good vs Zoo and because of the reduced lifegain in my version drawing 2 can be a stress on your life total even in the control matchups (where I am keeping in thoughtseize and want to fetch shocks). The planeswalker I tried were Gideon, Sorin, Little Elspeth, Gideon New and Big Elspeth. Vs Path matchups (Junk, UWR, Zoo) big elspeth was just the best. Shes obviously the most powerful and you get pathed. Realistically Little Gideon/Elspeth might be better (sorin to fragile vs Bolt/Kcommand), but Big Elspeth is my pet card (won me a GP).

Gideon Jura over 4th Rhino. Worse vs Burn. Better vs Affinity/Infect, *****ty creature decks (like GW HAtebears). Neutral vs most other matchups. Gideon Overperformed by a lot. Note Brian Liu (who tested with me) was so impressed he played 2 in the GP in his zoo deck and got 16th. Gideon is a powerful, resilient anti small creature effect. in particular the matchups that hes good in are very close game 1, so I like having a very powerful card.

Shambling Vents. The most important part, is that it just makes your mana way better than something like treetop village. I build my manabases by focusing on color requirements first, because Junk wins games when it can deploy its cards. However, incidental lifegain was also important in my build (you could play + 1 stirring, +1 swamp, -1 forest , -1 shambling and have same mana). I had already shaved a rhino and a ooze. But your life total is under pressure from your own cards (mana base and painful truths/thoughtseize). I think generally speaking Stirring Wildwood/treetio is a better card in matchups where manlands are at their best. But those matchups are already all decent. Whereas in the other matchups Vents is better (mostly because it just makes your mana better).

That is not going to work the way you want it to.

There is a 50% chance I play this in GP this weekend.

So I am not posting any full lists until after. Regarding Mana I haven't tried Kazukis, but I thought Pauls was very good (and an improvement over the original SCG one).

I lost a few games to flooding. I lost 0 games to colors. I lost a few games to not hitting enough land drops.

But in general I was always able to curve out assuming I drew enough lands, which i assume is much harder with Shambling vents.

IMO Abzan Aggro is a nut draw deck. You don't want to plan on games going long. Of course you can sometimes win if they do (Warden is a hella of a drug), but efficient threats are much worse late in the game. Basically my feeling is that a hand with warden/hbw, anafenza and 4 drop, most commonly loses to not being able to cast them on time.



TL;DR. I think the shambling vents mana base is definitely worth investigating. But flood protection is not worth it if it screws up your ability to curve out. Note SV only increases white sources by 2.

Walker would not be exiled. But an animated land would. Anafenza sees what you are the moment you leave.

FWiW, I played the same 75 as Paul at the PT and think the deck is good but not great (he obviously disagrees). More importantly I tested pretty much every idea in this thread, including some not here (like transformational sideboards).

I am confident most of the changes just make the deck worse. Abzan aggro is going to lose a lot of games. And a lot of those games are going to feel out of your control. But instead of trying to constantly tweak here and there, its a lot better to just focus on optimizing your play and your sideboard. You have the 2nd best nut draw in the format, and are far more resilient to any form of hate.

You have two great matchups (red and aristocrats) and bunch of close ones (control, GW, mirrors). The only truly bad one I have found is Finkel Jeskai (Tamada's is much better for you).

These are my conclusions after weeks of testing and a PT:

-Gideon is the best 4 by a long shot. Rhino, Archangel etc.. are all playable but Gideon is the best. It beats a lot of common answers and is unbeatable on the play.
-Wingmate/Gideon on the play are almost unbeatable without Tragic Arrogance. Assuming both players draw equal number of spells.
-Anafenza is currently MUCH MUCH better than any other 3. People are down on stance (because its blank against Jeskai). They are higher on price (because of Atarka Combo). And there are hangbacks (or dragonmasters) everywhere we want to exile.
-Cut and Abzan charm are the best removal in the format. But more important is the ability to reliably cast 2 removal spells on 4/5. So DCommands and Silkwraps serve a very valuable role.
-The control versions are better vs U decks, but significantly worse vs everything else.
-The third delta is a lot better than the 4th heath. Infinite hours of testing to decide this.

Won a 50 person pptq with above. Got very lucky in the t8.

Beat GR Titan, Esper Gifts, KikiChord and Infect in the Swiss while losing to Affinity.

Harbinger was excellent. Maindeck Skite was fantastic. Loved the 5 counters.

Report should be up today (on CFB). But I didn’t go into the rationale for specific numbers. The deck was the result of 100s of games. But a note on a couple of decisions:


In particular 3 Standsteppe Citadel. I tried 4, I tried 3 and I have played even 1. To me it is clear that if you want only 11 tap lands the cut has to be citadel. You lose a lot more games to screw/flood then you do colours. So the temples are more +EV then the triland. A lot of people would cut a forest for a Citadel. At this point it just came down to situations I often found myself in. Basically how often are you color screwed on turn 2/3 vs needing untapped lands to curve out. With less downfalls/bile blights/drowns I found the need for double black was much reduced. Sometimes the triland would save you life but getting thrown off curve costs you life anyways. This deck will almost always want to make a three drop and 5 drop on time (+ either a 2 or a 4). Post board vs Esper you will want to make your drops supplemented by discard. Any turn past 1, you often face a real tempo cost.


In particular when you play courser you often don’t have much choice in the land you want to play because it’s the one on top of your deck. In 50+ games this weekend, I only had to play an untapped land over the free value once. This is non-trivial, sometimes you need to build your deck just so that it can get out of the way of your good cards. So I think forest > sandsteppe, but if I needed to cast double black spells a lot I would of made that swap.


3 Lions is also a conscious choice. An ultimate lion is basically just a removal spell in my deck. Obviously better then that vs slow decks, but you need an answer to Den Protector, Raptor Recursion and other Ultimate Lions. You also need a creature to Dromoka’s Command sometimes. But realistically you are never going to aggro out opponents (such as devotion/whip/Gr Dragons). Even my most aggressive draws usually clunked up just enough to give my opponent’s time. Basically Lion is the best two drop available for this deck (due to flexibility) right now, but this deck DOES NOT WANT two drops (except against Esper). I felt that between all the other twos, 3 lions was enough to fill out the curve. I could see the 4th lion over a Bile Blight.


This was posted on Facebook, does it clear the confusion up? Also I would focus on the lines of play more than the specific cards. I tried to write the situations in a way that lets you think about them before explaining what I did. When it comes to Abzan playing correctly is 100% more valuable then debating the last 3 out of 75 cards.

I played 74/75 that Jesse did (+1 pulse, -1 decay which is a no brainer to me). I tried a million things and felt that most "tech" is just extremely overrated. Personally went 6-4 with 3 losses to the mirror and one to tron. With better luck and better play (made a truly heinous punt against Big Z in the mirror) could easily of been 10-0.

Obviously if your local meta is infested with random red creature decks than timely has a place. But I think building a sideboard with flexibility in mind is the wrong approach. You already have a chance against everybody because the core strategy is so powerful. So I don't want marginal upgrades when I sideboard. I want bunch of specific tools. If I lose the sb lottery so be it.

Best answer is pacifism.

Also I had archangels for a while but they are definitely not for UW or MonoB. And they also are pretty tough to cast (Your less than 70% to have two white sources on turn 5). The UW matchup should be approached as follows:

1) Minimize the impact of Supreme Verdict. This is the only card that can't be interacted with. So your game plan can't involve having multiple creatures in play. They have a lot of sweet answers. Don't let them be two for ones. This is what Bident helps.

2) Understand they are going to have a lot of counters, but will also have to tap out. You will get to resolve 4 and 5 drops at least once in a normal game. Jace may be better then Bident as follow up. But bident forces them to answer your creatures one at a time.

3) Revelation is the ultimate trump. If they resolve a big one (4-5+) you are probably not winning the game. Doesn't matter what you cast (Elspeth, Jace, etc...). This is why counterspells and aetherling (the only exception) are the best cards in the matchup. Unfortunately Aetherling is super narrow and I wouldn't want to two (or two JMemoryAdept) because you can't afford to have spots for just one matchup when its possibly only 10-15% of the field.

4) They will have often have Glares/Revokes/Pithing needles. Figure out what their sb plan is. Make it so your sb plan is adaptable. E.g. if they have needles/glare you don't want elspeth. But if they don't have it (or are relying on gainsay to interact), having one in your board is sweet so that you can change it up.

5) Have answers to Archangel. I assume everyone has 4 DSpheres so this comes from for free.

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FWIW the advice you are getting in this thread is actually very good.

Just some overall higher level (in the over-arching sense) for limited:

1) Most importantly have a plan. Is your deck fast or slow? Are you winning by attacking on the ground? In the air? Some other method (most commonly mill)?

Everything you do in limited should be in the context of "your plan". Like people have told you sometimes good cards are only good in certain decks. Smite is good at advancing a defensive strategy but not at pushing through damage.

Figure out what the games you are winning look like. Then try make your deck stick to the script.

2) Figure out how you are losing. This should be a running thought as you draft/build. Your picks should change in priorities as you get a better idea of what your weaknesses are. What the 20-23rd cards should be also change as you understand whats the place you need to make improvements at the margin.

For example, maybe you have a bunch of solid green creatures but are worried you will die to fliers. Then in return to ravnica aerial predation becomes much better. On the other hand maybe you have a bunch of 3/3 reach scavengers, so the predation isn't as important.

3) Positioning. Signaling is bad name imo for this concept. Especially in the current draft format. The idea is to position yourself well for the whole draft. For example, when you are drafting orzhov the guy to your left is one who has the best opportunities to cut you off (because Orzhov is a gatecrash guild). So you really don't want to be passing too much in your colors. On the other hand if you are drafting and see that Golgari is very open but that you will have to pass some golgari cards, don't worry about it so much. You are sending a bad signal maybe, but you are POSITIONING yourself to be set up in pack 3 (where Golgari is a core guild).

4) Take cards for your sb. If you aren't sbing a card per match you have had a poor draft. Your deck needs to change gears sometimes (see having a plan and knowing how you will lose).

Helpful SB Cards:
Conditional Removal (Destroy Fliers, Destroy Red Creatures, etc....)

Counterspells

Graveyard/Mill/Alternate Strategy Interaction (Cremate). Sometimes your opponent will interact in an unusual way. Or there will be cards which are nice (but narrow) answers to niche threats.

Go faster/defensive creatures (e.g. I don't like maindecking crosstown courier in my controlling decks, but sometimes you just need to block!).

Fogs - almost never maindeckable (though riot control is close), they are really only good in aggressive matchups that come down to races (typically air v ground matchups)

Go Longer / Durdle Cards - Slow expensive spells, for matchups where you aren't losing quick.

5. Try and get some mana sinks. This helps when you flood (duh!). But more importantly helps in deck construction, because you can build manabases which are more stable. But not have the downside threat of flooding.

6. The biggest trap cards for beginners are cards which don't change who is winning.

For example, both people are at 10 life. You both have no cards in your hand. Your opponent has a 3/3 and you have a 2/2 (or maybe no creature at all). Obviously you are losing this game. Think about whether the card changes who is winning.

Gain Life/Fog (doesn't change who is winning, your opponents board is still better then yours.

Burn Spells (this includes target creature can't block) that only hit players.

Do nothing spells (serene rembrance, hidden strings etc...)

Note that these effects are very rarely playable. But the threshold is high and i see bad/new players consistently overestimate them.

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On your specific deck:
Your deck should of tilted aggressive. You don't have good mana sinks. You don't have bombs (maw is close, but its an aggresive one).

Underworld connections is better in aggressive decks so play it. Smite and Soul Tithe are not good in aggressive decks.

Sinister possession is unplayable. The problem is that it gives your an opponent choices. And good players will know when its worth two life to attack or block. Also see 6.

For some good insight into RTR block limited format, check Out Reid Dukes and Ben Starks recent articles.

Hello everyone, I am a newer player and have a couple questions about some sideboard options. I currently have 2x Aven Mindcensor and 2x Fulminator Mage against Tron and Bloom. The mages are staying for sure but Aven mindcensor has been a little underwhelming. I haven't tested the matchup much but is there a better an option against those decks? I also have 2x Stony Silence to bring in vs tron but tron hits from different angles that I wonder if there is a silver bullet that I am unaware of. Should I keep Mind censor? Swap it for something better vs. Tron/maybe bloom? Or just give up on that matchup since its terrible anyways and dedicate slots to other matchups?

What do you guys think of 2-3 Wild slashes on the sideboard against turbo fog?

Hoping that the inaccuracies will be corrected, I'll make an initial shot:
Abzan Control w/out Raptors did best at SCG Chicago this past weekend (the biggest tournament since the release of Magic Origins), so it's currently top dog.
Abzan Aggro, which can have problems with Abzan Control, is threatened by Languish, so it's place is unclear with the release of Magic Origins, but it has been generally strong recently.
Abzan Control can have issues with G/r Devotion, R Aggro and G/R Dragons.
Abzan Megamorph may be best against Control.
Different builds and sideboards can change a lot of these generalities.
Abzan Midrange hasn't been a thing for quite a while.