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  • posted a message on Modern Spirits
    Thanks as always for your thoughts Streex! I really appreciate them!

    I did some testing with a copy of Collective Brutality in my board (which is what I have right now) but after testing I ended up dropping it. I know that in the right shell or meta game, it's incredibly powerful, but it just didn't feel that relevant in my list, and I didn't really feel that great whenever I drew it. I think part of that might be because I'm already running so many removal spells that having such a conditional piece of removal doesn't really add much to the list. Of course, it absolutely destroys burn and the hand attack option can be sweet, but I just wasn't very happy with it. Maybe if the meta seems to suit it, I'll put it back in and possibly grab another copy.

    I do have quite a few 3 drops, but that's generally where the list tops off, and they're pretty much the core of the deck (I can't cut the captains or quellers for obvious reasons, and I already shaved down 1 lingering souls after finding it to be a poor draw in multiples most of the time). The commands are pretty experimental, and might end up being cut, but I want to test with them for a bit; one of the biggest problems that I've had with the deck is running out of gas late in the game, leaving you at the mercy of top decks.

    I'd disagree with your comparison of Bishop and Obsession. Obsession seems amazing in the right shell, but I look at it as an aura enchantment that invites 2 for ones, and a dead draw late in the game. At worst, Bishop is a 2/3 flier with a relevant creature type for the deck, and given that nearly half the cards in my deck are creatures, it converts every single one of those into a source of card draw. Even if the creature gets countered, the clue still spawns and it can start chaining quite easily later on. It's definitely not something I want multiple copies of, since it doesn't interact quite as well as the other spirits in the list, but it seems quite powerful. Of course, I haven't run Bishop in more than a year, but even back then it usually satisfied me with how it performed. If it's not working out, I'll look at exchanging it for something else (like Obsession).

    I've seen quite a few lists here running Countersquall, and I understand the attraction. But, I'm not really running any negates right now that I'd like to upgrade to Countersquall, and don't want to run too many counter spells. I like Disdainful Stroke as my counter spell of choice, because it hits everything that my removal/quellers can't interact with: Primeval Titan, Wurmcoil Engine, Teferi, Jace, etc... A negate effect can't hit some of the big, threatening creatures that Stroke can keep off my back.

    I'm also generally pretty happy with the mana base, though I'll be happier once I pick up that Darkslick Shores. I'm hoping that Vents will work but I won't feel too bad if I end up cutting it for something else.

    I used to run 2x Persecution in my main list, and I finally decided that it wasn't good against the meta there. However, I like having a single copy in the board, because it does hit so many relevant creatures (Dryad Arbor, Glistener Elf, Blighted Agent, Slippery Bogle, Snapcaster Mage, Dark Confidant, most elves, Thalia's Lieutenant, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Champion of the Parish, Young Pyromancer and its tokens, etc...) If my meta gets to a point where I never want to board it in, it'll get cut, but it still seems functional at the moment.

    As for dealing with 4 color prison and Ensnaring Bridge, I must admit that I haven't played against the deck, or any list that's resolved a bridge. I'm curious about arguments for why Deputy of Detention is better than Detention Sphere (outside of a vial package, where the answer is obvious), and what you think of alternatives. I've certainly considered the potential of facing a deck running ensnaring bridge, but I wasn't sure what the most appropriate answer would be. The potential cards I'd thought about were Forsake the Worldly, Echoing Truth, Cast Out, Detention Sphere, and Crush Contraband, as well as the traditional Disenchant or Conclave Tribunal. What are your thoughts about pros/cons on those and the preferred means of attack?

    I'm pretty biased, but I'm not a fan of Favorable Winds, or any card that does nothing on its own. I tried putting together a standard deck back when Ixalan came out that featured Favorable Winds and a bunch of efficient fliers, and was not pleased in the slightest with how it performed. I understand the advantages against control, but as far as I can tell, I'd rather play the waiting game against control; eventually, they have to tap out to play something (or to counter an instant speed creature), and that's when you can start pressuring. Winds on the board doesn't do much other than buff Spirit Tokens, obviously creating a faster clock, but if I have creatures that can actually stick for a turn or two, I consider myself in a pretty good position already. Also, my plan for control is pretty much already set: manlands+ GoST out of the board with Disdainful Strokes to keep them off Jace/Teferi/Cryptic Command/Terminus. Again, I'm looking to be rather flexible, and if play shows that FW is worth putting in, I'll certainly test it out, but I'm not too high on it currently.

    And, I'll be sure to try recording my results and sharing them here, along with my thoughts. I usually have a hard time remembering specifics from my early matches, but I'll try to take decent notes this time around.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Modern Spirits
    On a slightly related topic, I've been refining my list after reading through everyone's comments throughout this thread and I think I've finally settled on what I'm bringing to my LGS's Thursday night Modern event tomorrow. I'll be sure to give a report on how things go, but as always I'd appreciate peoples' last minute thoughts on the deck. One slight note is that, while I'm planning on running the darkslick shores, after Streex's comments on the mana base, I don't actually have it yet, though I know that the store has a copy that I'm planning on grabbing beforehand.

    [/quote]
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Modern Spirits
    Quote from Aramchik »
    Iam still not commited that Esper List is playable one. UW is the most viable and BANT is the most AGGRO. Even though Iam sure any list can win you a gameday or even a big event, you still should choose UW or BANT list to go for a 1st Place


    I think your statement contradicts itself. Whether Esper is the most viable build or not is, of course, open for debate (though I tend to think it has several advantages over Bant and even U/W), but even if it isn't, it's still certainly playable. I'm not going to pretend that my anecdotal experiences are worth much of anything, but I've personally had a great deal of success running Esper (though it's admittedly a very light splash for lingering souls and fatal push in the mainboard, along with a few tech options out of the sideboard). It's quite powerful and offers far better interaction with many of the other meta decks running around in modern right now.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Modern Spirits
    Quote from energizerzax »
    Do you have a sideboard guide for this Esper list?



    Since I've also been playing Esper, I feel like I should give my input, though keep in mind that my list is likely not as optimal, since I'm not running Aether Vial. The sideboard has been pretty tricky for me to refine so far, but you'll probably want the mainstays of Rest in Peace and Stony Silence. I run a pair of each, though you may consider more RiP if you feel it necessary. I run 2 copies of Remorseful Cleric mainboard, so I'm already packing some graveyard hate and don't feel like I need more than 2 more copies of RiP in the board.

    Blessed Alliance is still one of my favorite sideboard cards, and I strongly recommend running it. Its versatility makes it good against Infect, Bogles, and Burn, and it can be easily brought in in any matchup where your opponent is likely to attack with only one big creature (I'm thinking it would be solid against Amulet Titan), or any time that life gain is relevant. Likewise, Disdainful Stroke is great for the deck because it can deal with a multitude of threats. It stops all of Tron's win conditions, Collected Company, Primeval Titan, Scapeshift, Bedlam Reveler, Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Teferi, Hero of Dominaria, and Terminus, among other things. Plus, since it's an instant, it doesn't interfere with your plan to play at instant speed.

    Another card that seems really powerful is Eidolon of Rhetoric. I found myself wanting to bring it in for many matchups, so I finally went out and grabbed a second copy. Given the prevalence of decks like Izzet Phoenix and Storm that want to play a ton of spells each turn and which are reliant on Lightning Bolt for removal, Eidolon is amazing; it will just completely shut down their game plan, or at least slow it to a crawl while you continue your beatdown. Since you're running Esper, Zealous Persecution could be a consideration. I finally cut it from the main deck, but it's a surprisingly relevant board wipe/anthem effect in many situations. It will kill elves, Bird of Paradise, Noble Hierarch, Snapcaster Mage, Dark Confidant, Young Pyromancer, Inkmoth Nexus, annoying Infect creatures, Dryad Arbor, Bogles, and lingering souls tokens. Plus, it only costs 2 mana and is an instant. I think it definitely merits some consideration.

    I also like running Geist of Saint Traft as a 2 of in the sideboard. It's not optimal in a lot of matchups, but you'll likely want some additional pressure against control decks, and Geist can definitely help you there. I thought of running Dovin, Grand Arbiter or another planeswalker, but I decided that it would be too slow to fit with the tempo plan. Lastly, Unmoored Ego is a nice way to cripple combo decks. If you name something like Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle, Living End, or a Tron piece, you can basically win the game on the spot. It is slow though, and combo decks aren't exactly the most popular things right now; even Izzet Phoenix doesn't care that much if you get rid of all their birds, since they still have Thing in the Ice and Young Pyromancer to continue applying pressure.

    As a final note, I've come to agree with some of the other people here who've decided that discard spells aren't really what the deck wants, even from the sideboard. I've been running 2 Thoughtseize for a while, and while they can occasionally be useful, they're bad draws late, and generally don't help your game plan enough to be worth the tempo loss. I'm experimenting with Collective Brutality, since it has multiple uses and I've heard positive feedback on it. I'll have to test it and see if it's too slow, since it is at sorcery speed.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Modern Spirits
    Quote from Aramchik »
    So, if an opponent casts a spell and leaves no mana open, and while its still on the stack I vial Tithe Taker - his spell will not resolve?


    I'd guess that the spell will still resolve. The wording on Tithe Taker is that spells your opponents cast on your turn cost 1 more. At this point, they've already cast the spell and paid the mana cost for it. If they finish casting the spell, and you vial tithe taker in in response, it's too late and the tax won't apply except to future casts.

    Of course, I'm not a rules expert or a judge, so I could very well be wrong, but that's how I'd interpret this.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Modern Spirits
    Quote from StreexIT »
    Report time for my Esper version.
    I have made a couple of adjustments in the manabase and now everything seems to fall in the right place. 21 lands are necessary as much as the single Tar Pit in place of the Moorland Haunt, Tar Pit fixes colours and takes away big chunks of your opponent's life total: the 3 attack power is really what you need to cut your opponent off a turn each time it connects.

    This said, the version I'm playing with now feels like the best version of a spirit deck I've had in my hands since I've jumped into modern two years ago. It's got ways to control the early game preventing the opponent from developing his board, it's got disruption, it's got ways to sink mana later in the game (read: powerful Lingering Souls topdecks). Everything in the mainboard seem to be coherent with the rest of the cards.
    So I have been winning one 14 people FNM and one Local 30 people Tourney on Friday and Sunday.
    The first was the FNM:
    T1 Revolt Zoo: 2-0. Fatal Push and collective brutality removed two creatures and a bolt giving him none of the lands PtE would have provided if I was on UW. This is one of the two biggest features of the deck: the mana base is a bit more painful than the bicoloured version, but the black spells excel at rewarding that initial life points investment. This is something I didn't even imagine before the playtest.
    T2 Izzet Phoenix: 2-0. G1 was a tight one, which I won because curious obsession on a wanderer drew me 3 cards . G2 he managed to have a phoenix in play on turn two, but rest in peace shut his lootings down and allowed me to stabilize. We played two more games for fun where he managed to do his degenerate stuff, like triple phoenix on turn 3, so I still believe the matchup is really really close.
    T3 Bant Company: 1-1. G1 and G3 I just out-raced him as I am meant to do. G2 he went hierarch into Detention Steve removing my Vial, then he played a couple threats and that was too much for me to come back. Deputy looks convincing, especially when it hits some minor permanent so the opponent struggles to spend a removal spell on the 1/3, letting other threatening creatures stay on the board.
    It ended up in a draw because the picked a Worship off the top before the extra time started. I decided not to play around his top deck and spent my spell queller to exile his one and have lethal on the following attack phase. Those times where no wraths or blowouts will show up you'd better play around the biggest threat left.
    T4 Bant Spirits: 2-1. This game was against Ketoglutarato, it's been cool to test the two versions of the tribe with him. I have been lucky to have my brutality early in my hand in two games at least, and the -2 -2 ability has been so powerful to remove a Drogskol captain in the presence of a selfless spirit on the board. It's also true that a later brutality might have been ineffective and would have ended up in a less useful life drain.
    Lingering Souls are an amazing card in the mirror and Creeping Tar Pit with the finest form of evasion made me think that's a natural mainboard answer to the board stalling the times it happens, and does help you turn the corner and race back the aggro deck.
    I brought in Athreos, God of Passage , but that actually didn't work that well. He was at 14 life or more, so he accepted the 3 life loss a couple times not to give me my spirits back. Definitely not worth the spot in the mirror. I've also found out the games where I might want Athreos are the games where I also want RiP ( against midrange for example).
    After this match I came to the conclusion that you either want to fight bant being bant yourself , or you'd better be on a configuration that allows you to fully play the control role from the beginning, which esper is much better at doing than UW.

    That night I've got back home with a friend and we tested Esper against his Kiki Chord for long getting to convince ourselves that: the black spells slow the value plan down enough to let me maintain the aggro role even when they start with mana dork on the play. Lingering souls is an unmanageable threat for them.
    After sideboard blood moons/magus of the moon are really scary and they are what you should play around for the first 4 turns, then you've got to watch out from the combo and some scary creatures like Cataclysmic Gearhulk and Lyra .

    The deck looked so solid that I gave up UW to attend the 30 people tourney with Esper, along with a couple adjustments in the side to deal with ensnaring bridges and such permanents, so I registered two Deputy of Detention and one Unified Will.
    T1 GW value. 2-0. It looked like a bye, nothing really to say, that deck wasn't interacting with me.
    T2 Mono Red Ponza. 2-0. This one was trying to hit my lands with Boom/Bust targeting his own darksteel citadel, followed by stonerain effects and threats. Countersquall into Collective Brutality prevented his plan from taking off.
    T3 Boros Burn. 2-0. Here the black spells shined the most proving how damn useful is to remove a creature without ramping his mana. He's kept a one lander one of the two games, and push helped stabilizing while keeping his mana chocked. Then he played eidolon and I escalated a collective Brutality on it Turning lands into value.
    Burn was an important test for me to see how good this version is at dealing against the most aggro strategies. The match is still very close.
    T4. ID to grant me the top 8.
    T5. UW control. 2-1. I decided to play this to take the chance to be ranked first and start every match in the top8. This tourney is also part of a league and I wanted both the points and the experience.
    Lingering souls again proved to be the most relevant card in the match. You cast it once and chip away their life. You'll be waiting to flash it back until the first two tokens are removed. It's what UW was missing and what bant has in the form of Collected Company. I'm not saying they do the same things, nor that they get played the same way, but they both provide you the form of advantage that the UW version can't rely on.
    Baneslayers and Lyra are still a serious problem that has to be dealt with by having in 4x heterogeneous answers to their presence.
    QUARTERFINALS. Burn. 2-0. Nothing really different from the previous match against burn. Brutality lets me turn garbage into value, they can't turn their lands into anything useful instead. Sometimes you find yourself where it's too late for a selfless spirit to be cast, so you just discard the creature escalating and keeping up with them.
    SEMIFINALS. UW control. 2-1.
    FINALS. UW control. 2-1. G3 i was on the draw, he mulled to 6 and I mulled to 5. I thought I was lost when I had to let him resolve one hieroglyphic illumination, I was on 3 cards, he started his next main phase with 6. it took me to play knowing that I would have won by hitting maybe a couple important spells with my spell quellers, but the truth is that two lingering souls is 3 turns drained him a negate, one cryptic command and one Snapcaster mage, still letting me recur to one last flashback in the presence of favourable winds on the floor, which I consider a card of paramount importance against deck that sweep the table. It's been an intense game where he attacked me down to one life with colonnade and Snapcaster, then I untapped finally drawing a lord, attacked for 6 with those two tokens pumped by Drogskol and favourable winds, and drained the last two points with a collective brutality which spent 6 to 8 turns in my hand waiting for a spot to be relevant.
    Brutality is phenomenal against control, but it takes you to know when to use it. I'm not sure myself: some obvious situations induce you to discard a land and check their hands, so it's possible that you want to play stuff in their turn to force to tap out, some other times you have to use it as a bait to force a counterspell and then play the creature that you need to resolve.
    So the results have been convincing so far, and I would fix a couple things in the sideboard only. One of these is to switch Dimir Cutpurse with Jace TMS, because the latter gives you so much more value for one more mana. Cutpurse felt like it can generate some huge card advantage but it comes one turn too late and really needs to be flashed in in their end step.

    This is my updated Esper List


    One final word on Lingering Souls: they really give sense to the low utility land count mana base (which was my biggest issue with leaving UW for a splah), along with Brutality. Souls may come early and build board presence, or come very late when you are flooding and impact the board with 4 tokens at one time, re-establishing a presence and giving those 5 lands a reason to be there . At that point one naked lord is turned into a very powerful topdeck too: I have played enough UW to know what it feels to have no gas in the tank left and be hoping to draw some spirit followed by a lord to rebuild you clock. Lingering Souls in the deck offer a solution to that problem by itself. 3x is the number I want for now, 4 are too clunky.
    I've thought about the new Dovin too, but there's no reason not to play Jace TMS for one more mana, once again.

    I believe I have finally found a version that match my tempo/control-ish playstyle.
    That friend against whom I played the final sat close to me while I was playing a for fun game during a break, and watched what I was doing. After a couple of turns he told me: "so you are playing the opposite way of how Bant does". This wraps up what Esper Spirits is.



    I like the look of this list, though I'm not able to run the vial package at the moment (for budgetary reasons, though I also just don't like how Vial plays). I'd been thinking about running Creeping Tar Pit as a tool against control for a while, so since you've had success with it, I'll have to give it a try! On the other hand, what do you think of Shambling Vent as a 1 of as well? It's not as good at getting damage through, but it's an extra tool against aggressive decks like Burn, and gaining life mainboard can be potentially relevant.

    A few questions on your mana base: 1) how does your 8 fetch lands to 7 fetchable lands feel? I run 22 lands at the moment, and I'm probably not going to cut any more (since I'm not running vials), but running so many fetches to so relatively few mana producing lands feels a bit awkward. Also, is there any reason, in your opinion, to run Darkslick Shore over Concealed Courtyard? B/W seems to be more useful early game than U/W if you're playing Path and Fatal Push; I know U is more important overall, but I think that the deck is running enough U sources that it's not a huge issue.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Modern Spirits
    Hey everyone! I didn't even know that this was a thing, but since I've been consistently playing spirits since EDM, I'm glad to see so many other people in on the deck! Right now, I'm working on tuning my list, which is a vial-less Esper build. I've had pretty good success with it (The last Thursday Night modern event I went to had me go 3-1 with the deck, beating GDS, Infect, and Soul Sisters, and losing to a Jeskai Control deck), but I'm always trying to improve the list. Here's what I have right now:


    My sideboard is currently:


    I'm currently looking to make a few adjustments, particularly to my sideboard. I haven't tested with him yet, but thinking on it again, I don't think Dovin is what the deck needs, even against control. Also, Thoughtseize is really good, but a poor top deck late game and requires me to use it at sorcery speed. I'm thinking of cutting those three in favor of a combination of unmoored ego, collective brutality, or additional copies of eidolon of rhetoric.

    As for my main deck, after some play, I decided that 4 lingering souls were too many, so I cut a copy for bygone bishop, since it provides a means of refueling my hand late game, even if it is very slow. The other adjustment I'm considering is cutting 1 basic plains and 1 basic island in favor of additional utility, probably land destruction. I'm debating whether ghost quarter or field of ruin would be better. Ghost quarter is quicker, but puts me down a land, which is not great when I'm only running 22 anyways. Field is slower, but can still take out lands at instant speed without putting me behind my opponent. What do people think about this?
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
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