Thanks, they do sell theme decks going back pretty far. They just don't happen to have the ones i was looking for (pretty good selection though). Any one have any other options?
My friends and have been playing with a pretty regular cube for maybe 2.5 years and we like it a lot. But we have found that we are missing many of the elements of constructed formats.
Years ago we would buy precons and use our meager collections to tweak them gradually into more powerful decks that were very fun and very competitive amongst themselves. But as our knowledge of the available cards, our bank accounts and access to sites like this one grew, we found that the outcome of constructed play was often a result of who was playing the best netdecks and whoever was willing to spend the most money to improve their decks.
This is why we mostly have switched to cube in the last couple years. But as mentioned before we were missing many aspects of constructed play, but wanted to avoid the arms race that always results when we try to play legacy, vintage or standard formats.
Now we racked our brains on solutions that limited our card pool. We considered a pauper format (only commons or commons and uncommons) but we realized that a expensive arms race could just as easily occur with this. Another option was limiting ourselves to certain sets, but every group of cards has it elite cards that are costly to attain and eventually can be broken down into a defined group of "best decks".
We wanted to design a format that let us build decks with lasting identities that we could improve upon but would not get us involved in am arms race. Something reminiscent of the days of our Tombstone, Phyrexian Assault, Swoop, and Painflow precons. What we realized was the key wasn't to limit our card pool necessarily, but to limit our ability to improve upon the decks.
The format we came up with is a kind of Ironman Cube. We have a large cube that includes multiple copies of many staple cards (this lets decks become more fine-tuned over multiple drafts). We draft 60 card decks and play a regular round robin tournament structure. But rather than dismantling the decks, we keep them intact for the next time we play. After the initial draft, subsequent drafts only involve 2 packs of 15 cards and only a limited number of changes can be made to your deck based on how successful you were in the former tournament.
Right now winning 3 matches allows you to switch up to 5 cards out of your deck. Wining 2 Matches allows you to switch 10 cards, winning 1 lets you switch 15 cards and 0 wins is 20 cards. Basic lands can be switched out freely. The idea is to let the weaker decks make more changes and stay competitive. If you have the best record in a tournament 3 nights in a row you become the ultimate winner and we dismantle the decks and start the process over.
We have never heard of a format like this that combines elements of limited and constructed play (although it may exist). This format allows you to build a deck with a unique identity, but in a controlled environment that eliminates costly arms races and netdecking.
I wanted to post this to get some help in fine tuning the format and put it out there for others looking for a change from strictly limited or strictly constructed formats.
I can provide numbers and more defined rules if people are interested.
Imo the drafting problem is less of a problem, but more that there are only few fun ways to play magic with 3 persons. The most balanced version I can think of is Two-Headed Giant, with one person playing 2 decks at once.
ya true, but we all like to watch matches too, so we'll have no problem sitting out one person while the other two play. gives time for bathroom breaks and beer runs ;).
My play group has 5 regulars, but occasionally we will end up with only 3 people. We have a cube that supports 4-6 players, with the standard 3 packs each, with 15 cards per pack. I was just wondering if you have any suggestions on how to play a limited variant with 3 people with our 4-6 person cube.
Can it be drafted with 3 people? if so, how many packs (and how many cards per pack)?
Or is there a different way to do it that people have had fun/success with? We greatly prefer draft to sealed, but would be willing to try whatever.
I've actually thought about this before, and I just don't think you're going to find a repeatable Raise Dead effect on anything that's a common. Something like Golgari Browncale could provide you with a guaranteed creature draw, as well as pad your life and help put fiends or butchers in the yard in case you haven't found the one you want yet.
Honestly though I don't think you'd be happy with him either without having a repeatable draw source, which puts us right back where we were before. Repeatable draw at common will probably be even less likely.
Seems like it could work, definitely not a 4-of, but im gonna test with a couple. Also i find that Viscera Seer can really smooth out my draws, helping guarantee a creature. I like to unearth a Rotting Rats and sac it to the seer after i attack.
The nightmare effect is a combo/control deck that is played in legacy, conveniently a fair amount of the cards in this deck are commons. A few important parts are missing but i decided to try and build it in pauper and i have had some success testing it online.
The main point of the deck is to contol the board and youre opponents hand by abusing the nightmare abilities of Faceless Butcher and Mesmeric Fiend. The nightmare ability can be abused by using sac outlets such as Viscera Seer or Carrion Feeder to stack the leaves play ability on top of the comes into play ability, making you're opponets permanently lose their creature or card. This can be taken one step further by using Tortured Existence to repeat this over and over.
Im hoping for some card suggestions, for things i may have missed, but mainly for a card that would replace Krovikan Horror from the legacy build, aka something that could return to my hand easily to keep the Tortured Existence engine going. Another that would work if it were common would be Squee, Goblin Nabob, for example. It wouldn't even necessarily need to be a black card. Thanks.
As far as drawing goes, perhaps Horizon Canopy could be the answer, as it is reuseable when played from the graveyard via crucible.
In my opinion the consistancy we get by dropping blue is worth the loss of counter magic, especially since your last build only had 4 spell pierce. Hopefully you can lock them down with armageddon, winter orb and wasteland. Also you have the pridemages and the swords, and the jittes to help you deal with any threats that do get through.
sorry im drawing a blank here. What is the difference between "play" and "cast"? I think im confused from the rule changes for M10.
Specifically im thinking about the interaction between Aluren and Glimpse of Nature. Aluren says you can "play creature cards with converted mana cost 3 or less without paying their mana cost". Glimpse of nature's errata says "Whenever you cast a creature spell this turn, draw a card." So does playing a creature with Aluren let you draw off of Glimpse of nature?
I like the build, as other have mentioned, i think you want to run Qasali Pridemage I think its better than Trygon Predator (both are good though). I would drop a couple Birds of Paradise or Noble Hierarch and put tarmogoyf back in.
edit: also i would consider mox diamond and chrome mox as they produce mana and survive armageddon, in addition to allowing things like 1st turn pridemages, goyfs, jittes, and winter orbs. With mox diamond you would be discarding a land that you could very well get back via crucible or leave in the graveyard to add to Terravore and Tarmogoyf size, making it relevant even in the late game.
This deck is based off a Mono Black Aggro legacy build, but includes the Dark Depths/Vampire Hexmage Combo and Phylactery Lich. The deck is more focused on building what is ideally an insurmountably strong board position very early in the game. I chose to include removal that was just a part of another spell, so that my removal is also helping my aggro efforts ie. Vampire Nighthawk, Gatekeeper of Malakir, and Umezawa's Jitte.
Gatekeeper of Malakir: Pretty self-explanatory, this card has proven itself as a mainstay in MBA and Mono-Black Control decks. In addition, you can target yourself in order to sacrifice Dark Confidant when your life total is low.
Dark Confidant: Pretty self-explanatory again, he lets you keep your hand full and continue to apply the pressure.
Bitterblossom: an early bitterblossom allows you to protect your more important creatures from edicts or opposing gatekeepers, 1/1 flyers equipped with Jittes or Swords can be very powerful, Bitterblossom has won me games many times.
Vampire Nighthawk: removes pesky creatures, regains life lost to Bitterblossom and Dark Confidant, and has evasion.
Chrome Mox: This card (combined with Dark Ritual) is what puts this deck over the top, and allows for some ridiculous early turns.
Dark Ritual: This card (combined with Chrome Mox) is what puts this deck over the top, and allows for some ridiculous early turns.
Phylactery Lich: This card can be incredibly powerful, i have had him equipped with a Jitte and ready to attach on turn 2. Can put counters on artifact lands, chrome mox, sensei's divining top or any of the 4 equipments.
Duress: duress was chosen over Thoughtseize and Inquisition of Kozilek because we are not really worried about creatures, we want to make sure we can get Force of Wills and we cannot afford to loose any more life from Thoughtseize.
Vampire Hexmage: combos with Dark Depths for a 20/20 indestructible flyer as early as turn 1. Also kills planeswalkers, Tangle Wire, Aether Vials, and countless other relevant spells; all while being a decent creature.
Equipments: gain you life, protect your creatures, kill you opponents faster, and provide card advantage. enough said.
obviously you need "the perfect hand" for some of these, but these are just examples of many strong possibilities so you could say there are a large number of "perfect hands" for this deck.
I would like to be able to fit 2 more duress in but im not sure what should come out, as i haven't done enough play testing with this exact list. Also, not sure if i have too many lands.
does momentous fall have a place in this deck (u/g)? or do people think its a win more card/too expensive? i mean if your stifle gets countered you can play momentous fall and draw 12 and gain 12 life, or just save it in case they destroy the dreadnought later.
Checked a trollandtoad, they had an awesome selection but won't ship internationally, ebay has a pretty limited selection or is overpriced.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
My friends and have been playing with a pretty regular cube for maybe 2.5 years and we like it a lot. But we have found that we are missing many of the elements of constructed formats.
Years ago we would buy precons and use our meager collections to tweak them gradually into more powerful decks that were very fun and very competitive amongst themselves. But as our knowledge of the available cards, our bank accounts and access to sites like this one grew, we found that the outcome of constructed play was often a result of who was playing the best netdecks and whoever was willing to spend the most money to improve their decks.
This is why we mostly have switched to cube in the last couple years. But as mentioned before we were missing many aspects of constructed play, but wanted to avoid the arms race that always results when we try to play legacy, vintage or standard formats.
Now we racked our brains on solutions that limited our card pool. We considered a pauper format (only commons or commons and uncommons) but we realized that a expensive arms race could just as easily occur with this. Another option was limiting ourselves to certain sets, but every group of cards has it elite cards that are costly to attain and eventually can be broken down into a defined group of "best decks".
We wanted to design a format that let us build decks with lasting identities that we could improve upon but would not get us involved in am arms race. Something reminiscent of the days of our Tombstone, Phyrexian Assault, Swoop, and Painflow precons. What we realized was the key wasn't to limit our card pool necessarily, but to limit our ability to improve upon the decks.
The format we came up with is a kind of Ironman Cube. We have a large cube that includes multiple copies of many staple cards (this lets decks become more fine-tuned over multiple drafts). We draft 60 card decks and play a regular round robin tournament structure. But rather than dismantling the decks, we keep them intact for the next time we play. After the initial draft, subsequent drafts only involve 2 packs of 15 cards and only a limited number of changes can be made to your deck based on how successful you were in the former tournament.
Right now winning 3 matches allows you to switch up to 5 cards out of your deck. Wining 2 Matches allows you to switch 10 cards, winning 1 lets you switch 15 cards and 0 wins is 20 cards. Basic lands can be switched out freely. The idea is to let the weaker decks make more changes and stay competitive. If you have the best record in a tournament 3 nights in a row you become the ultimate winner and we dismantle the decks and start the process over.
We have never heard of a format like this that combines elements of limited and constructed play (although it may exist). This format allows you to build a deck with a unique identity, but in a controlled environment that eliminates costly arms races and netdecking.
I wanted to post this to get some help in fine tuning the format and put it out there for others looking for a change from strictly limited or strictly constructed formats.
I can provide numbers and more defined rules if people are interested.
Cheers
ya true, but we all like to watch matches too, so we'll have no problem sitting out one person while the other two play. gives time for bathroom breaks and beer runs ;).
My play group has 5 regulars, but occasionally we will end up with only 3 people. We have a cube that supports 4-6 players, with the standard 3 packs each, with 15 cards per pack. I was just wondering if you have any suggestions on how to play a limited variant with 3 people with our 4-6 person cube.
Can it be drafted with 3 people? if so, how many packs (and how many cards per pack)?
Or is there a different way to do it that people have had fun/success with? We greatly prefer draft to sealed, but would be willing to try whatever.
or is it profitable to sell them in smaller groups on auction sites? (for example selling them as "30 random rares")
also i feel like Silhana Ledgewalker is an auto-include in this deck.
Seems like it could work, definitely not a 4-of, but im gonna test with a couple. Also i find that Viscera Seer can really smooth out my draws, helping guarantee a creature. I like to unearth a Rotting Rats and sac it to the seer after i attack.
anyone else have suggestions for a Krovikan Horror or Golgari Brownscale type card?
The main point of the deck is to contol the board and youre opponents hand by abusing the nightmare abilities of Faceless Butcher and Mesmeric Fiend. The nightmare ability can be abused by using sac outlets such as Viscera Seer or Carrion Feeder to stack the leaves play ability on top of the comes into play ability, making you're opponets permanently lose their creature or card. This can be taken one step further by using Tortured Existence to repeat this over and over.
For a more comprehensive explanation of the deck, here is the legacy primer: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=231984
Here is my current decklist:
4x Mesmeric Fiend
4x Rotting Rats
4x Viscera Seer
4x Carrion Feeder
4x Deathgreeter
4x Phyrexian Rager
2x Twisted Abomination
2x Exhume
2x Kill Spell
22x Swamp
Im hoping for some card suggestions, for things i may have missed, but mainly for a card that would replace Krovikan Horror from the legacy build, aka something that could return to my hand easily to keep the Tortured Existence engine going. Another that would work if it were common would be Squee, Goblin Nabob, for example. It wouldn't even necessarily need to be a black card. Thanks.
As far as drawing goes, perhaps Horizon Canopy could be the answer, as it is reuseable when played from the graveyard via crucible.
In my opinion the consistancy we get by dropping blue is worth the loss of counter magic, especially since your last build only had 4 spell pierce. Hopefully you can lock them down with armageddon, winter orb and wasteland. Also you have the pridemages and the swords, and the jittes to help you deal with any threats that do get through.
Specifically im thinking about the interaction between Aluren and Glimpse of Nature. Aluren says you can "play creature cards with converted mana cost 3 or less without paying their mana cost". Glimpse of nature's errata says "Whenever you cast a creature spell this turn, draw a card." So does playing a creature with Aluren let you draw off of Glimpse of nature?
thanks
As far as the mana base is concerned i don't like City of Brass, Gemstone Mine or Reflecting Pool, why not switch these for 4x Misty Rainforest, 4x Savannah, 2x Tropical Island. Fetchlands are your friend in this deck, because Crucible of Worlds allows you to reuse them and thin your deck.
Finally, have you considered cutting blue all together? I would think about.
Adding exploration would allow you to play 2 lands a turn from your graveyard after you armageddon.
Here's a sample list based on removing blue and making some of the other changes i mentioned:
4x Noble Hierarch
2x Birds of Paradise
4x Qasali Pridemage
4x Tarmogoyf
2x Umezawa's Jitte
3x Crucible of Worlds
3x Exploration
4x Armageddon
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Undiscoverd Paradise
4x Mishra's Factory
4x Savannah
4x Windswept Heath
3x Wasteland
edit: also i would consider mox diamond and chrome mox as they produce mana and survive armageddon, in addition to allowing things like 1st turn pridemages, goyfs, jittes, and winter orbs. With mox diamond you would be discarding a land that you could very well get back via crucible or leave in the graveyard to add to Terravore and Tarmogoyf size, making it relevant even in the late game.
Gatekeeper of Malakir: Pretty self-explanatory, this card has proven itself as a mainstay in MBA and Mono-Black Control decks. In addition, you can target yourself in order to sacrifice Dark Confidant when your life total is low.
Dark Confidant: Pretty self-explanatory again, he lets you keep your hand full and continue to apply the pressure.
Bitterblossom: an early bitterblossom allows you to protect your more important creatures from edicts or opposing gatekeepers, 1/1 flyers equipped with Jittes or Swords can be very powerful, Bitterblossom has won me games many times.
Vampire Nighthawk: removes pesky creatures, regains life lost to Bitterblossom and Dark Confidant, and has evasion.
Chrome Mox: This card (combined with Dark Ritual) is what puts this deck over the top, and allows for some ridiculous early turns.
Dark Ritual: This card (combined with Chrome Mox) is what puts this deck over the top, and allows for some ridiculous early turns.
Phylactery Lich: This card can be incredibly powerful, i have had him equipped with a Jitte and ready to attach on turn 2. Can put counters on artifact lands, chrome mox, sensei's divining top or any of the 4 equipments.
Sensei's Divining Top: Allows you to filter the cards revealed for Dark Confidant and is an additional early target for Phylactery Lich.
Duress: duress was chosen over Thoughtseize and Inquisition of Kozilek because we are not really worried about creatures, we want to make sure we can get Force of Wills and we cannot afford to loose any more life from Thoughtseize.
Vampire Hexmage: combos with Dark Depths for a 20/20 indestructible flyer as early as turn 1. Also kills planeswalkers, Tangle Wire, Aether Vials, and countless other relevant spells; all while being a decent creature.
Equipments: gain you life, protect your creatures, kill you opponents faster, and provide card advantage. enough said.
- Turn 1: Chrome Mox, Dark Depths, tap Mox, Dark Ritual, Duress,Vampire Hexmage, Sacrifice the Hexmage to remove Dark Depths counters at the end of their turn. Turn 2: Attack with Marit Lage Token
- Turn 1: Vault of Whispers, Dark Ritual, Phyalctery Lich
- Turn 1: Chrome Mox, Darksteel Citadel, Dark Ritual, Phylactery Lich (counter on citadel). Turn 2: Dark Ritual, Umezawa's Jitte, Equip, Attack
obviously you need "the perfect hand" for some of these, but these are just examples of many strong possibilities so you could say there are a large number of "perfect hands" for this deck.
4x Gatekeeper of Malakir
4x Vampire Nighthawk
4x Vampire Hexmage
4x Phylactery Lich
4x Dark Confidant
Artifact/Enchanment (11)
4x Bitterblossom
3x Sensei's Divining Top
2x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
4x Dark Ritual
2x Duress
Mana Base (23)
4x Chrome Mox
2x Urborg Tomb of Yawgmoth
2x Dark Depths
4x Vault of Whispers
2x Darksteel Citadel
9x Swamp
I would like to be able to fit 2 more duress in but im not sure what should come out, as i haven't done enough play testing with this exact list. Also, not sure if i have too many lands.