Guys, I am really trying not to get all pessimistic and doom-sayer, especially seeing this is only very recent, but with the force that Cherri0s has gotten, would a Mox Opal severely hurt the deck? I am still halfway about to go (need still the Opals and Bridges, and a couple of cards, too), and now I am worried about getting the Opals.
new banner up & some actual chunks of writing incoming as we speak.
i've made a conscious effort to really dial back on the number of images in the primer - i'm considering those of us who access the site through mobile devices or have slower connections.
i can't count the times on other primers where i've needed to quickly access a chunk of info on my phone (while playing at an LGS or at a friend's house or something) and what should have been a quick-n-easy repository of information was actually a bloated pile of JPEGs and empassioned waffle about someone's favourite deck.
I love this deck - but I feel that as a community, we need an efficient and useful primer, for everyone.
everyone OK with this? you're all welcome to weigh in on how it looks and feels as it develops.
~Purk
If I may, even though I am not a regular here it would be highly appreciated. At times, when reading the old primer too many pictures made it difficult to read or find parts I wanted to check.
In general, modern control is just not that great considering the aggro decks are so hyper efficient and there are so many archetypes hitting the format from completely different angles. Diversity is great, but it makes playing control much more difficult. Like for the counter suite, how would you want to make it better? There are no better counterspells than the ones we play, and in general counterspells aren't even as good as you often have to trade down in mana. The same goes for wincons; what wincon would serve better than Nahiri against a diverse field? Kiki is only one turn faster than Nahiri and infinitely more fragile, a mix of other Planeswalkers as was popular before Nahiri's printing is guesswork and often completely dead against combo.
In general I still think Jeskai Nahiri is a very solid deck, with the vast majority of matchups being 50/50 preboard and favourable postboard. However if you look at the format from a pro's perspective, it's much safer and easier to pick something that has a ton of free wins against a predicted field, like tron, infect or dredge. I don't think there is any matchup that is a free win for us, but in exchange there also aren't any matchups for us that are as poor as tron's infect matchup for example, or merfolk's affinity matchup.
Logic Knot is an excellent counter. In Modern it is practically Counterspell. My personal experience has been great with it. However I would never run it in Nahiri build because the possibility of having to discard Emrakul is real (which, incidentally is the reason I dropped Nahiri altogether, as I seemed to simply draw Emrakul too much in my opening Hand or first turns).
Unpredictability doesn't get you very far though. Yes I get spiked by some guy going "end of turn resto, untap, kiki" but then I go "yeah ok you got me" and just not tap out anymore. And if that strategy would start spiking big events, people know about it and will bring in more specific hate cards, and the unprepared meta that a jeskai kiki build thrived in suddenly disappears. Unpredictability works only for a very short while and does not create tier 1 decks; I can pretty safely say I could write down 60 out of 75 cards of any given decklist of one of the tier 1 decks from the top of my head. Nahiri being easy to hate out I also strongly disagree on; yes, people can bring in Pithing Needle or Dreadbore but people already run creature removal to deal with Jeskai Flash; having very few creatures to make their mainboard removal dead is a huge upside of running Nahiri as a wincon in fact. Nahiri's power as a wincon, and why I still think it is the best Modern control wincon, is that she is fast, difficult to beat, multifunctional and effective against a large scala of decks. Although she is clunky against some decks where it becomes difficult to tap out for her, no other wincon we have available has such a wide applicability.
As for pros not picking up Jeskai Nahiri, they also don't pick up any other versions of the deck. The people spiking events with Grixis or alternate Jeskai strategies are rarely pros, but just want to play control and are good at it. This is because if your main incentive of choosing a deck is "I want to win", then choosing control is just not the right option. Even if there is a tier 1 control deck hidden in the modern cardpool, it is just much easier to find a powerful noninteractive deck in modern.
All this being said, I still really want to urge someone here to write a new general Jeskai Control primer; I could give some input but I don't have time to be the main writer. While I am convinced Jeskai Nahiri is the most effective control build right now I definitely want to see new strategies evolved as Nahiri is also clearly flawed. MTGS not having a jeskai control primer right now is a big loss.
A Pure Jeskai Control Primer would be awesome indeed.
Yes, figured. No problem! I found Nahiri Jeskai wasn't the Control Deck suited to me, and ever since going straight Control without her I got better results for myself. Keep the fight on.
So, is this a place to discuss Nahiri-less Jeskai too, or only limited to Nahiri Jeskai? I have moved away from Nahiri due to poor results for me. I am playing a straight Jeskai Control (my favorite combination ever!), so I was wondering about where to go to talk to experts.
Thanks for the answer. I know these are context-sensitive questions, but I goldfished some hands and wondered whether, on a vacuum, is it ok to keep no creature hands and my mind wandered off to the value of mulligans in Burn. Especially now that a extremely cheap removal will most likely enter the Modern metagame. Surely a Deck with almost no way get CA wants to begin with th highest amount of cards possible. It may also be my control-biased mindset, as I have always played Blue-based control.
Yeah, I think I can imagine a good one-lander keep like Arid Mesa, Goblin Guide, Goblin Guide, Rift Bolt, Lightning Bolt, Lightning Bolt, Atarka's Command (drew this ealier during said experiments).
I also came here to ask about Fatal Push... but on the other way around. I have just finished building my Naya Burn, and this card really kills any of our early creatures.
So, having literally zero experience with Burn whatsoever, I would like to ask some questions to the burn players. How much damage do you usually get out of creatures? In an opening with no creatures, is it an automatic mulligan, is it a safe keep (context depending)? I ask this mainly because (I expect) that losing card advantage for a Deck like Burn would hurt more than not opening with a creature. Or is my expectation wrong?
Actually forgot to ask earlier, but where is a good place to go to watch replays on Lantern Control? I would love seeing good pilots to get a better grasp of the Deck's intricacies.
So, for example, once you have established the lock, at EOT is it always correct to mill your opponent before you go? I would say it is almost always the correct choice, barring what you need to draw, no?
It depends on the match up. Many matchups can require redundant lock pieces in order to really lock them out and many times milling the opponent without them is not a great idea. Against a deck playing RG for example you want to have two bridges (or welding jar) in play before you start trying to actively mill them. Snapcaster decks can be similar.
Excellent points, it just depends on the deck and the situation.
It also might be useful to add in some safety measures to act as insurance against opponents who refuse to concede. If you run into those people often, Ghirapur Æther Grid isbyour friend. The previously mentioned Cillective Brutality loop works just fine, as does the same loop with Galvanic Blast if you choose to use it. I have additional insurance in the form of Nephalia Drownyard; i highly recommend this card for anyone who plays Lantern.
Yes, I feel like this is correct. I guess this will only come with practice once I start playing with the Deck itself.
A Pure Jeskai Control Primer would be awesome indeed.
Best of luck Jeskai brothers!
Yeah, I think I can imagine a good one-lander keep like Arid Mesa, Goblin Guide, Goblin Guide, Rift Bolt, Lightning Bolt, Lightning Bolt, Atarka's Command (drew this ealier during said experiments).
So, having literally zero experience with Burn whatsoever, I would like to ask some questions to the burn players. How much damage do you usually get out of creatures? In an opening with no creatures, is it an automatic mulligan, is it a safe keep (context depending)? I ask this mainly because (I expect) that losing card advantage for a Deck like Burn would hurt more than not opening with a creature. Or is my expectation wrong?
And also, Merry Christmas to all!