With a couple of Blood Moons and some number of Terminates/Dreadbore/Anger of the Gods taken from the SB into MB, you've basically got a RB control deck with a Demigod beatdown plan. I've faced a deck like that at my local FNMs, and it stomps the living daylights out of many a greedy midrange decks. I don't see a reason why this deck would perform much worse.
My guess is Lashwrithe is too cute, just 1-2 Demigods in and of themselves should be sufficient to kill your opponent. I'd be in for a couple of Risk Factor in a deck like this, perhaps in the SB, as well as a couple of Sweltering Suns in MB if your meta has Humans/Spirits or any other swarm type decks.
Trophy "doesn't add much"? Oh please, you obviously haven't played with the card.
Thanks to Trophy I'm playing a deck that casually runs UW control out of wincons while at the same time has a favorable MU vs combo and midrange G1. The width of decks a card like Trophy allows us to control is almost absurd, and the mana efficiency of the card makes it a natural fit for a Snapcaster deck. That's also where much of the strength lies. Being able to Trophy 1-2 things is rarely back breaking, which is why we haven't seen the card make GBx the all-powerful deck some thought - However, when you resolve your fourth Trophy against most decks, they have no gas left and are basically like a turtle on its back.
Finally some activity here! I almost thought I was the only one hyped about BUg Control for a while there!
I need to playtest one of these Obstructionist lists asap, because I think they're hard to evaluate just based on a list. They look too slow imho, but without playing it I think it's just too hard to give any decent feedback. What are your experiences on different matchups so far?
Pulse is a really good card, basically a green (anti-)Kolaghan's Command. I'd be wary of shoving too many 3 drops into a deck that already runs Snapcaster Mage, so I'd cut some of those and try to lower the curve. Spell Snare is really good atm, and hand disruption allows us to hamper our opponents tempo to slow them down, so I'd look into that. The old adage that counterspells and hand disruption doesn't work together should be put to rest, as long as there's an overarching gameplan where you take control of the late game or tempo out your opponent there is no reason to follow the gospel tbh.
Small adjustments to the SB, trying out Golgari Charm for a bit. I'm probably going to change it to a second Countersquall or EE though. I really can't overstate how good this list feels.
As a GDS player I can attest that if you're playing a control and/or midrange deck you need to have a super tuned list to beat it consistently. They play fewer lands, have a lower curve and the deck is filled with disruption. Basically any draw is live against a deck like ours. I've been running them against each other, and it's probably the one MU where I sometimes wish Trophy was Decay. Having your desperate "tap draw" Cryptic countered for U is just all kinds of feel bad.
I think hand disruption is key here, if we can make them stumble on deploying a threat the cards should quickly fall our way. One of the MUs where I think Unmoored Ego is well worth bringing in.
I also ran my list a few matches against Storm yesterday. Seemed like a good MU, but got punished a couple of games when I kept bad hands. They can explode pretty fast when not interrupted correctly. Post board with more disruption and less cost intensive threats (out with Trackers and Trophies) I don't really see how their average draw would beat ours tbh, the MU skewed pretty heavily towards BUG at that point.
Not sure if Scepter is where I'd want to be in a modern meta where GBx will be prevalent and possibly filled with even more permanent-destruction. It's a really bad top deck in the face of an active LotV, and you could easily be 2-for-1 against them. Then again, this might just be a worst case scenario, and the kind of MU where you board them out and just play the beautiful BUG grind where everything they ever bought, opened in a pack or traded for is reduced to rubble or countered.
Still no goyfs, but this list has been working absolute wonders for me. It's a control deck though, so I'm mainly involved in the BUG Control thread over at the Deck Creation forums.
We do have a Lightning Helix of sorts, it's called Collective Brutality:)
But yeah, I agree, the mana is painful for us if we want to play BUG Control utilizing cards like Cryptic and Snap. So far I'm not getting too punished against aggro, but if the meta adjusts to this type of deck I think we'd probably want some more lifegain in the deck. I used to run Pulse of Murasa in the SB, it could also be an option for you with the extra creature lands.
Lumbering Falls seems super clunky to me, I'd really want some evasion on those. I run a singleton Creeping Tar Pit which works pretty well at closing the games through board stalls, but often enough when I could activate it to pressure my opponent I rather sit back and wait with open mana. Going so heavy on creature lands seems a bit at odds with a control deck wanting to play a reactive game. A deck like Jund or Abzan can do it pretty well, since they mostly tap out for their threats/answers, but when cards like Negate and Cryptic are involved, creature lands get worse.
An idea could be to lower the number of Lumbering Falls, and instead run something like 1-2 Crucible of Worlds in your deck so you can buy them back. Also lets you keep straining your opponents basic land count with FoR and GQ.
Also, don't let my scepticism dissuade you, I haven't tried your list and these are just assumptions I'm making here:)
Latest iteration. We're continuing to try out different card choices. So far, split between 3 of us we're a combined 47-6 on xmage. I've been really high on the Trackers, but gone down to 2 in the MB as they are virtual 4-drops and usually you want them even later. Collective Brutality in the main is a test, and considered a hedge against an aggressive meta, but I think the Tracker in the SB could just as easly switch places with it.
The Countersqualls have been working pretty good, the incidental damage helps to close the games, esp with Snapcaster Mage. I've been considering testing 1-2 Logic Knot, but just haven't gotten around to doing it yet. I think they have a lot going for them.
Considering Nissa, I think she's just too little impact. I'd honestly rather run Ashiok than her. But again, this is just a feeling I have. I should add her to my playtest schedule, thanks for the suggestion!
Flaying Tendrils is mostly a way to clear out annoying recursive threats such as Bloodghasts and tokens. The card bridges the gap pretty decently between my 1-of Damnation and the two EE, and it gets some incidental bonus value by ignoring stuff like Selfless Spirit.
Right now I'm about to test the deck with a single Sunken Ruins and a Tombstalker in place of the Gurmag Angler since the Angler isn't really set up to hit the field early anyway, and the evasion could be a huge upside.
Edit: I've been running the deck on xmage for a bit. So far I'm 6-1 with the only loss being against a friend running a similar list as mine. This deck is the real thing.
I posted this list in the Sultai Midrange-thread here as well, but as the list is basically a reworked Grixis Control in BUG colors I think it suits this thread better.
Here's my BUG Midrange/Control build I'm experimenting with. I'm considering if it's worth it to have 1-2 JtMS in there as well, but so far this list has been working pretty well without him. Any thoughts?
Some comments: I decided between goyf and delve threats, since I think they usually don't go well together. The delve guys feel more reliable than goyf, and Thought Scour synergizes great with Snapcaster Mage aswell. Having access to Tasigur's ability in the late game allows me to pretty much drown any opponent in CA, and Trackers work similarly while also providing a great clock. The SB is very much a work in progress, and built with my local meta in mind (not a lot of Burn, so I don't run any Collective Brutalities for instance).
Coming from playing Grixis in modern, the idea of running Snaps+Angler+LtLH works well, but you might have to support them with more Thought Scours, especially if you add Goyfs to the mix. I think the tension between goyfs who want a stable GY, and Anglers who feed of a one-shot big GY might end up being an issue.
Could be a mistake, not 100% decided yet but I usually prefer the delve threat/Thought Scour package with Snapcaster Mage so I kinda just defaulted to something I'm comfortable with. I also think, even in a post-Assassin's Trophy world, the delve guys should be a bit more resilient than goyf, but I might be overrating them.
The deck plays a lot like a Grixis deck but leans into green instead of red, so I've used the same fundamentals. The Angler might be replaced with a Tombstalker since the deck feels a bit soft against opposing flyers, but it's still something that needs testing.
Here's my BUG Midrange/Control build I'm experimenting with. I'm considering if it's worth it to have 1-2 JtMS in there as well, but so far this list has been working pretty well without him. Any thoughts?
My guess is Lashwrithe is too cute, just 1-2 Demigods in and of themselves should be sufficient to kill your opponent. I'd be in for a couple of Risk Factor in a deck like this, perhaps in the SB, as well as a couple of Sweltering Suns in MB if your meta has Humans/Spirits or any other swarm type decks.
Thanks to Trophy I'm playing a deck that casually runs UW control out of wincons while at the same time has a favorable MU vs combo and midrange G1. The width of decks a card like Trophy allows us to control is almost absurd, and the mana efficiency of the card makes it a natural fit for a Snapcaster deck. That's also where much of the strength lies. Being able to Trophy 1-2 things is rarely back breaking, which is why we haven't seen the card make GBx the all-powerful deck some thought - However, when you resolve your fourth Trophy against most decks, they have no gas left and are basically like a turtle on its back.
I need to playtest one of these Obstructionist lists asap, because I think they're hard to evaluate just based on a list. They look too slow imho, but without playing it I think it's just too hard to give any decent feedback. What are your experiences on different matchups so far?
https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/25-09-18-bug-control/?cb=1539948681
Small adjustments to the SB, trying out Golgari Charm for a bit. I'm probably going to change it to a second Countersquall or EE though. I really can't overstate how good this list feels.
I think hand disruption is key here, if we can make them stumble on deploying a threat the cards should quickly fall our way. One of the MUs where I think Unmoored Ego is well worth bringing in.
I also ran my list a few matches against Storm yesterday. Seemed like a good MU, but got punished a couple of games when I kept bad hands. They can explode pretty fast when not interrupted correctly. Post board with more disruption and less cost intensive threats (out with Trackers and Trophies) I don't really see how their average draw would beat ours tbh, the MU skewed pretty heavily towards BUG at that point.
Not sure if Scepter is where I'd want to be in a modern meta where GBx will be prevalent and possibly filled with even more permanent-destruction. It's a really bad top deck in the face of an active LotV, and you could easily be 2-for-1 against them. Then again, this might just be a worst case scenario, and the kind of MU where you board them out and just play the beautiful BUG grind where everything they ever bought, opened in a pack or traded for is reduced to rubble or countered.
I love this deck.
Still no goyfs, but this list has been working absolute wonders for me. It's a control deck though, so I'm mainly involved in the BUG Control thread over at the Deck Creation forums.
But yeah, I agree, the mana is painful for us if we want to play BUG Control utilizing cards like Cryptic and Snap. So far I'm not getting too punished against aggro, but if the meta adjusts to this type of deck I think we'd probably want some more lifegain in the deck. I used to run Pulse of Murasa in the SB, it could also be an option for you with the extra creature lands.
An idea could be to lower the number of Lumbering Falls, and instead run something like 1-2 Crucible of Worlds in your deck so you can buy them back. Also lets you keep straining your opponents basic land count with FoR and GQ.
Also, don't let my scepticism dissuade you, I haven't tried your list and these are just assumptions I'm making here:)
Latest iteration. We're continuing to try out different card choices. So far, split between 3 of us we're a combined 47-6 on xmage. I've been really high on the Trackers, but gone down to 2 in the MB as they are virtual 4-drops and usually you want them even later. Collective Brutality in the main is a test, and considered a hedge against an aggressive meta, but I think the Tracker in the SB could just as easly switch places with it.
Considering Nissa, I think she's just too little impact. I'd honestly rather run Ashiok than her. But again, this is just a feeling I have. I should add her to my playtest schedule, thanks for the suggestion!
Flaying Tendrils is mostly a way to clear out annoying recursive threats such as Bloodghasts and tokens. The card bridges the gap pretty decently between my 1-of Damnation and the two EE, and it gets some incidental bonus value by ignoring stuff like Selfless Spirit.
Right now I'm about to test the deck with a single Sunken Ruins and a Tombstalker in place of the Gurmag Angler since the Angler isn't really set up to hit the field early anyway, and the evasion could be a huge upside.
Edit: I've been running the deck on xmage for a bit. So far I'm 6-1 with the only loss being against a friend running a similar list as mine. This deck is the real thing.
Here's my BUG Midrange/Control build I'm experimenting with. I'm considering if it's worth it to have 1-2 JtMS in there as well, but so far this list has been working pretty well without him. Any thoughts?
1 Gurmag Angler
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4 Tireless Tracker
Instants:
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Assassin's Trophy
2 Countersquall
2 Cryptic Command
4 Fatal Push
1 Spell Snare
4 Thought Scour
Sorceries:
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
Lands:
1 Breeding Pool
1 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Darkslick Shores
3 Field of Ruin
1 Forest
3 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Overgrown Tomb
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
1 Damnation
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Flaying Tendrils
3 Nature's Claim
2 Pulse of Murasa
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Thragtusk
1 Unmoored Ego
Some comments: I decided between goyf and delve threats, since I think they usually don't go well together. The delve guys feel more reliable than goyf, and Thought Scour synergizes great with Snapcaster Mage aswell. Having access to Tasigur's ability in the late game allows me to pretty much drown any opponent in CA, and Trackers work similarly while also providing a great clock. The SB is very much a work in progress, and built with my local meta in mind (not a lot of Burn, so I don't run any Collective Brutalities for instance).
The deck plays a lot like a Grixis deck but leans into green instead of red, so I've used the same fundamentals. The Angler might be replaced with a Tombstalker since the deck feels a bit soft against opposing flyers, but it's still something that needs testing.
1 Gurmag Angler
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4 Tireless Tracker
Instants:
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Assassin's Trophy
2 Countersquall
2 Cryptic Command
4 Fatal Push
1 Spell Snare
4 Thought Scour
Sorceries:
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
Lands:
1 Breeding Pool
1 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Darkslick Shores
3 Field of Ruin
1 Forest
3 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Overgrown Tomb
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
1 Damnation
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Flaying Tendrils
3 Nature's Claim
2 Pulse of Murasa
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Thragtusk
1 Unmoored Ego