i agree with everything you said except the conclusion to play surgical haha. in my opinion being free and costing you a card its worse than costing 1 mana and be a 1x1
so in the last 2 league results updates the new version of shadow zoo with traverse the ulvenwald put up 2 more 5-0s, i think that makes a total of 3 5-0s without probes
that could be the new direction to keep this deck competitive
talking about surgical extraction, its not a replacement for gitaxian probe, mishras bauble and street wraith are actual replacements but we are already playing them. surgical extraction is graveyard hate, you are basicaly throwing a card at the graveyard for free instead of paying one mana and not loosing a card by playing more copies of thoughtseize
manamorphose or dismember are also decent cards to play before surgical
even without the revolt line i think fatal push is a 4 off, what makes me think twice its that i will have a total of 8 uncolored mana simbols in the casting costs, wich pretty much converts mutavault in a land that doesnt produce mana. dont get me wrong mutavault its great, its our best plan B but if it only helps casting 8 spells in the deck its a liability
yep, those are very fair points and i can't disagree. abzan has more table power and sultai plays better in the 1 for 1 game wich can be great against scapeshift or ad nauseam or decks that rely on specific cards but not very effective against lingering souls and other cards that put multiple threats
i dont think its that clear that abzan its the best version of B/G/x
abzan is considered to have the best cards in the mirror in the form of lingering souls and white planeswalkers but thats it, maybe stony silence too
but sultai have ancestral vision (how many games do you win with midrange when the oponent goes turn 1 ancestral vision? not many), and theres also snapcaster
i also think that sultai its better against combo than abzan due to vendilion clique and having the opportunity to play more draw go with flash threats and instant answers
im not saying that sultai its the best deck ever, im saying that maybe abzan its not the default best
I really like dropping Lynx for Narnam which asks whether this deck should go Jund. If we do that though we lose some of our best SB cards. What would be the replacements of RIP, Stony, and Unlife?
i dont think we were playing rest in peace
stony silence its the biggest loss, theres ancient grudge wich its not the same but also very good
path its easy replacable with fatal push or dismember
not everybody was playing unlife, i never did and never had problems against burn, but i always had battle rage plus become immense or death shadow
nacatl its also something to not replace white entirely, but playing with basic lands its refreshing
Still have to tweek around the numbers of BI and Tarfire (maybe ad a Rancor/blossoming defense too?) but it looks promising.
traverse asks you a lot, you can't realy count battle rage as instant because you plan to cast it to win the game, same as mutagenic growth. also you dont want to count traverse itself as a sorcery because you want to tutor for a creature
what do you think of that list? its more traditional but without white
surgical extraction might not be what we need, probe was good because it didnt cost you a card and you could play it turn 1. i think trying to replace it its not the correct aproach, we are already playing the closests replacements in street wraith and mishra's bauble. i think we have to look for cheap cards that are at least a 1 for 1 and make us pay life, maybe dismember
in the delirium build i would also try to maintain the number of sorcerys, maybe add the fourth inquisition
That's why I like the idea of noxious revival because it addresses the problem of fatal push as you can get back a death's shadow on top of being a versatile tool for the deck (e.g. timewalk opponent, stuck on one land and getting back a fetch,getting back a temur battlerage to help finish the game off, helps with the life loss). I'm going to run 4 to test it tomorrow and report how it does.
If someone has the chance to proxy that or the Jund decklist which is doing really good online with a midrange deck with Fatal Push it woulb be awesome. Let us know
Do you have the link for those Jund lists? I was already interested in going Jund with Death's Shadow, and the Probe banning is the Fatal Push for me going into that direction (Sorry for the awful pun xD)
Let talk Aether Revolt! With the arrival of Fatal Push I think our classic decklist will suffer a lot. I also think The Jund list will become more viable, because of all the discard, Kolaghan Command and it's less heavy on the combo : https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/modern-brg-32571#online
My question is, do you think that with the meta switch that might happen, we should replace Goyf for something else? If yes with what? Tasigur/Hoothing are interesting, but they don't play well around Delirium and Traverse.
i noticed that this deck does pretty well online, but im not convinced on having temur battle rage and a bunch of decays and dismembers in the same deck. i think its better to go one direction: removal/liliana or battle rage and other kill fast stuff
Timba's list misses all the manlands, which die to the base mode. Manlands are one of our banes because we cannot hit them with our discard easily. Check out Ktk's list of hits I posted last page. Ignore any conclusions drawn by timba and esperino and make your own.
its a list of creatures that can't be killed by those cards, and it's accurate
i think fatal push its genericaly better than dismember but we can't count on revolt and without dismember our mutavaults are pretty much lands that dont add mana. so im unsure about what to do with the 4 removal slots because i dont want to cut mutavault
this card its great and 8rack will play it for sure in the 75, but in this deck its only a scaled down version of smother, wich i think its still good enough
the best part about dismember its the hability to play it off mutavault, our best plan B but a very costly landrop to make without urborg
Why are we not playing with four drops? I find it very weird that we are a control deck that "assumes" we won't get to turn four. Also the control deck that does not run draw (other than asylum visitor).
raven's crime and smallpox don't fit well with high cost cards
in post side boarded games some 4 mana cards can be so good that you can afford to wait on using the already mentioned cards at its full value (night of souls betrayal for example)
that could be the new direction to keep this deck competitive
talking about surgical extraction, its not a replacement for gitaxian probe, mishras bauble and street wraith are actual replacements but we are already playing them. surgical extraction is graveyard hate, you are basicaly throwing a card at the graveyard for free instead of paying one mana and not loosing a card by playing more copies of thoughtseize
manamorphose or dismember are also decent cards to play before surgical
abzan is considered to have the best cards in the mirror in the form of lingering souls and white planeswalkers but thats it, maybe stony silence too
but sultai have ancestral vision (how many games do you win with midrange when the oponent goes turn 1 ancestral vision? not many), and theres also snapcaster
i also think that sultai its better against combo than abzan due to vendilion clique and having the opportunity to play more draw go with flash threats and instant answers
im not saying that sultai its the best deck ever, im saying that maybe abzan its not the default best
i dont think we were playing rest in peace
stony silence its the biggest loss, theres ancient grudge wich its not the same but also very good
path its easy replacable with fatal push or dismember
not everybody was playing unlife, i never did and never had problems against burn, but i always had battle rage plus become immense or death shadow
nacatl its also something to not replace white entirely, but playing with basic lands its refreshing
traverse asks you a lot, you can't realy count battle rage as instant because you plan to cast it to win the game, same as mutagenic growth. also you dont want to count traverse itself as a sorcery because you want to tutor for a creature
what do you think of that list? its more traditional but without white
2 kird ape
4 monastery swiftspear
4 death's shadow
2 tarmogoyf
4 street wraith
4 mishra's bauble
4 thoughtseize
2 lightning bolt
2 dismember
4 mutagenic growth
3 become immense
4 temur battle rage
4 bloodstained mire
4 wooded foothills
1 overgrown tomb
1 blood crypt
1 stomping ground
1 swamp
1 forest
if you dont like dropping nacatl its very easy to put it back by cutting ape and goyf and playing the already proven mana base
this "jund version" just made 5-0 without probes
so maybe theres hope!
4 inquisition of kozilek
4 fatal push
4 abrupt decay
2 maelstrom pulse
4 liliana of the veil
4 tarmogoyf
4 dark confidant
4 snapcaster mage
2 vendilion clique
4 creeping tar pit
4 verdant catacombs
4 polluted delta
1 misty rainforest
1 watery grave
1 overgrown tomb
1 breeding pool
2 swamp
1 island
1 forest
its a first draft, thats why theres a lot of 4 and 2 ofs
sultai doesnt have old trusty lingering souls to grind people out but ancestral vision and snapcaster mage can play the same game
so what do you think? better or worse than abzan/jund/bg? maybe different?
surgical extraction might not be what we need, probe was good because it didnt cost you a card and you could play it turn 1. i think trying to replace it its not the correct aproach, we are already playing the closests replacements in street wraith and mishra's bauble. i think we have to look for cheap cards that are at least a 1 for 1 and make us pay life, maybe dismember
in the delirium build i would also try to maintain the number of sorcerys, maybe add the fourth inquisition
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/modern-brg-32571#online
i don't think the death shadow decks are competitive without probe but i would love to be wrong on that
maybe 4 seize and 4 dismember make up for it
the new kird ape with death touch seemd realy good, also we could play fatal push instead of path
the deck plays more smoothly if you just treat godless shrine and sacred foundry as if they were basic swamp/mountain
also quite a lot of tmes you keep a hand with steppe lynx knowing that you are not going to play it
i noticed that this deck does pretty well online, but im not convinced on having temur battle rage and a bunch of decays and dismembers in the same deck. i think its better to go one direction: removal/liliana or battle rage and other kill fast stuff
its a list of creatures that can't be killed by those cards, and it's accurate
i think fatal push its genericaly better than dismember but we can't count on revolt and without dismember our mutavaults are pretty much lands that dont add mana. so im unsure about what to do with the 4 removal slots because i dont want to cut mutavault
the best part about dismember its the hability to play it off mutavault, our best plan B but a very costly landrop to make without urborg
raven's crime and smallpox don't fit well with high cost cards
in post side boarded games some 4 mana cards can be so good that you can afford to wait on using the already mentioned cards at its full value (night of souls betrayal for example)