Thank you for the kind words Fincown. I too have a soft spot for Mortarpod, but haven't missed it too much yet. I just felt the card too slow, though I still play it in my Mono W list =]
CavalryWolfPack: That list looks fine to me, pefectly playable. Not quite optimal in my opinion, but this deck everyone really has their own flavor/prefence anyway =] I do have a few suggestions, and I think they are somewhat budget friendly. Please keep in mind I do not play paper MTG only MTGO so if expensive in paper my apologies.
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-I would cut the Mortarpods for sure. Too low impact of a card, and you usually block enough/wrath enough to have creatures in the yard to recur.
-In place of the Mortarpods I would add 1 Supreme Verdict and 1 Detention Sphere. Both cards really give this deck strong legs in game one against fair decks. Also the extra Verdict will almost assuredly net you some of your own creatures in the grave yard to recur.
-I think Pilgrim's Eye is a playable card, and played Pilgrim's Eye for a long time in this deck. I think this slot is better suited however to your choice of Kitchen Finks/Blade Splicer. I like Blade Splicer right now, but have played both, and mix it up from time to time. Gideon of the Trials is good too, but pricey if trying to stay budget.
-Spreading Seas is strong right now, and budget friendly. 3 or 4 is a good number, but not necessary in the main deck in my opinion. Perfectly fine to do so, though, decks have had strong results doing so. Very strong side board card for problem land match ups plus Ghost Quarter. I would take out the Ojutai's Command for these, along with Condemn.
-I love Negate in this deck, and run 3 or 4. I recommend at least having some in the side board. There have been plenty of lists that have had strong results running no counters at all, but personally I get a ton of work from Negate. 2 is probably fine, I just like to have one in my hand every game =] Well almost.
-I like Tormod's Crypt over Relic, does what we need it do, and we aren't hurting for card draw. Just better at what it does I think for this particular deck.
-I like the 2 Dispel in the side board, that card is sneaky good some times. Side board is fine and budget friendly.
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I think the deck is fine for anyone getting into Modern, though I don't think control decks are the way to go for new players. Maybe Standard players looking to get into Modern, but a fresh noob might be better suited to Burn or Death and Taxes. I encourage you to do your next article on the deck, and post back with a link =]
I realize its scope is rather narrow, but just an aside for those running a U/W list, Ceremonious Rejection is something to think about in the SB if you run up agasint a lot of Eldrazi Tron/various Tron flavors in your local meta. Countering a Karn, Wurmcoil, Ugin, Endbringer, etc for 1 Mana feels nice, and it can be a great tempo swing. If this has already been discussed, apologies. Probably better off running something like Disdainful Stroke, hits everything we are worried about with those decks anyway (except Chalice) plus the added benefit of the obivous extra utility.
D90Dennis14: Thank you for your input, all good suggestions. I would for sure go down to 3 GQ if I ran the full set of Spreading Seas in the main, and may switch to that. They are doing well currently.
-I prefer 4 counters of your choice in the main. For me, Negate helps win those Game 1's that aren't winnable without a way to stop what the opponent is doing. Generally, if the opponent has a creature based strategy, a deck like this will out grind them with card advantage/lifegain/wrath effects eventually. I don't mind creatures hitting the board too much, so that is the purpose for the Negates, hits what I am concerned most about. Against those decks where you know it isn't safe to tap out, I just don't if I'm holding a counter. Helps us anyway, if we get to hand size cool we can discard something useful to bring back, and hopefully we are drawing lands during all the waiting. I will admit though there are times where they sit in my hand and do nothing, but of course i just side those out for game 2.
I go back and forth with counters of any kind in the main vs side only vs none. I am a fan of the counters right now, but I don't think a build that doesn't run them is wrong.
-I love Phantasmal Image, I might swap out a Finks for one. In my older list, I would run 2 Phantasmal Image and the full set of Court Hussar, instead of the Finks. Also ran 4 Lone Missionary, this was before I ran Spreading Seas. I went down 2 Court Hussar when I added Spreading Seas.
-Good idea on Pithing Needle, I think that is probably better than running 3 Stony Silence.
Hello everyone. Would greatly appreciate any thoughts/opinions/possible changes/criticisms on my current U/W list. A few card explanations. I know Finks and Missionary seems redundant, and well, it is. Just a lot of aggro decks/burn running around on mtgo lately. The rest is pretty basic U/W Emeria. The Mana Leaks in the sideboard sometimes come out for Disdainful Stroke. Crypt isn't a rockstar or anything, but its free, can just target the opponent, and is recurrable with Titan. Been doing ok with this list lately, slow but steady, and the cantrips/Hussar draws make it somewhat consistent. Sideboard is setup to either play wait and see or 4 Verdict/4 Sphere for creature decks or problem permanents. 2 Spreading Seas come in for decks with problem lands like Tron.
Also, love the talk of the Mono W builds. I like the more controlling approach, with 3x O Rings/Wraths, Gideon Jura, etc. As has been mentioned, Finks vs Splicer is alwaysa a meta call, both are strong 3 drops in their own right.
Thank you both for your replies. Yes Riders is a budget option, but I like Riders for what it does. He usually swings on an open board, or blocks for Koth, almost never pay his echo. It is also nice to snipe the one basic they have under a Blood Moon. I do need to fit a few Fulminator Mages in somehwere though, probably should get some sooner rather than later. Running Fulminator and SSG would allow more turn 2 land destruction as well.
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Want to fit Boom/Bust as well somewhere.
Edit to add budget is not a huge concern. I don't have some of the cards I would like, but will get them if I feel the deck has any potential beyond just what I play when I'm bored with my traditional Skred deck.
First post in this thread, would like to thank all the contributors, lots of good info and reports dotted through out.
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I prefer the more traditional brew with Reckoners and Dragons, but have been goofing around with a pure Ponzaish version of Skred, and would appreciate any feedback. I reallllly wish Pillage was Modern legal, but alas.
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In a perfect world, the idea of the deck is to keep the opponent off color/off mana long enough to stick a threat and ride it to victory. Rabblemaster is squishy, but if you can manage to keep your opponent off color/mana, he is very effective for 3 mana. He is also a nice target for removal, helping the other threats stay alive a few extra turns in some cases.
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Side board is fluid, as I am still messing with the deck, but it always has 4 Relics, 1 Anger, and Artifact hate. The lone Chandra, Pyromaster should be Torch of Defiance probably, but isn't due to budget reasons.
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The deck does pretty well against almost anything that isn't playing Blue or Combo. My question is, how can it do better? How can I tune it to be faster? Is SSG worth running in a build like this? I think 4 Blood Moon is too many but maybe not? I appreciate any feedback.
In regards to what is the best version, color wise, to play of this deck. One thing that was mentioned briefly but not touched on enough I think is the value you get from playing Detention Sphere with Wisp. Detention Sphere is a MUCH better card than any of it's Mono colored alts. It does so much work, to me that alone plus the obvious control aspects of U (plus Phantasmal Image) give the deck a better chance of going long and controlling the game consistently, which, at heart is what the deck really wants to do. U just gives the deck better tools to get there I think.
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I played G/W for awhile, several different builds/curves. I really began to miss the subtle differences of the cards after some runs with it. The ability of Hussar once you deviate from U for instance. When i played G/W, I used Oath of Nissa for card selection. Oath was OK, but it didn't block, and it is limited in what it can fetch(can't fetch a Path if you need it). It didn't provide the value Hussar did and the deck missed that. Also, the difference between Wrath and Verdict is huge. Maybe it is just my meta (MTGO) but I have played against a lot of decks where if I weren't playing Verdict I would have lost. I play W almost exclusively now when I play Modern, so I know how I often I wish I was playing Verdict lol =] G/W was a pretty strong deck, but I felt the matches it lost due to it's limitations(not my own miss plays) would have been winnable with U/W. I have not experimented with the new G walkers, they do interest me though.
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I am not trying to stir anything up, I just think it is an interesting aspect of this deck, which way to take it splash wise. I have seen B discussed, and I like the idea of it, I just don't have any experience with it.
lord_darkview- Thank you for the input, I agree. I just like to bounce stuff off the board. You anonymous folks I don't know are the only people I "know" who play MTG, so the feedback is always very much appreciated.
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D90Dennis14- Thank you for the advice. I haven't played the U/W version in quite some time, and am looking forward to fitting in Spell Queller. I think it could possibly add more to the deck than Pilgrim's Eye for sure. Eye is a weird card though, sneaky it is =]
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I am still running the Mono W list I posted a a page or so back, and tweaking it as needed.
AeoniX- Don't have to sell me on the Swords, I used to run a couple, and thought they were quite useful in the deck. Reasoning behind why I ran them was to help close games faster, they fit so nice on a Wisp or Eye. I admit they do look somewhat out of place in the deck, but it was almost always a welcome draw. I don't run them anymore, but not because they were not effective =D I just added 1 more Angel and 1 more Image for consistency, here is my U/W list I posted in the old thread when I had them in the MD-
I really like Crucible, but damn it hurts the pocket book!!! Even in digital, and this is the only deck I would put it in. Sometimes I make myself feel better when buying pricey cards because a lot of them can fit in multiple decks, and I am sure Crucible can too, but damn. Please excuse the venting lol.
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Has anyone had any experience running a mix of GQ and Tec Edge? Something like a 4/2 split. I know it is counter productive to a degree since we are trying to get Emeria online, but I am currently tinkering in Mono W and just curious as to if anyone has ran a mana base with 6 colorless only sources and its impact on the deck. Just don't know if it is worth it to run 6 lands that don't count as plains. Is 6 too much?
Witless Wizard- Tough sledding on your outing, but it is always nice to see B/W tokens with this deck =] Thank you for the report.
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Just a random thought, but if you were running a U/W list w/Skyspawner in the main, is Drowner of Hope worth considering? Maybe as a one of? Just a random thought, I do appreciate the ability, and if you are running Eldrazi Skyspawner the Scion count may be enough to be useful. I doubt it, but just wanted to throw out there for the boards opinion.
I like Mindstone, will take a hard look at it. I was running Scrying Sheets too in my original list, but the WW in Exarch's cost meant I needed to cut them to run optimally. I only played 2, and in my limited experience I can't say with certainty that the deck is better with them, but I definitely think there is merit to experimenting with them. It's just that there were some games where it kept me from Activating Emeria and I'm still a wee bit salty heh.
Leyline is strong too, thanks for the good suggestions.
Thank you for your input, I have run the 2/2 split of Solemn and Eye, and the mana cost on Solemn is why I choose Eye at this point. That card is definitely on the radar though, maybe a 3/1 Eye/Solemn split or replace something with it...that is always the tricky part. Both abilities are in need in the deck.
On Jace, Vryn's Prodigy- Interesting thought, I will need to stew on that.
Thank you for your input, it is appreciated. We must have similar thought process, as most of the cards you mentioned I have already experimented with hehe. Kitchen Finks is a much better card than Inquisitor Exarch, no doubt. But in this shell, this card just does a lot more than one would think. Life gain I get plenty with the 4 Lone Missionary, but that 2 damage from Exarch is hard to avoid, and if I get to bounce it or recur it, it can get pretty significant. I had Finks in the original list, and it performed fine. I would cut the Blade Splicer before I cut the Exarch I think. Still tinkering.
Knight of the White Orchid is another really good suggestion, never tried in this build because I needed the peace of mind that it would fetch me a land every time, but it is probably better for the curve might be good to run a split maybe 2/2 of each. I just think it is crucial to get the land every time. Sometimes you get in an awkward situation with the Knight, but he is still a 2/2 first strike.
The original list had 3 Wrath MB, but I found more people were playing control on moto lately (in my experience) so I trimmed down to 2. In the match ups where I would board in a full set, they are still winnable with 2. Chump till I stick a Titan, and with 26 dudes that is a lot of chumps =] 3 is optimal though, I do agree.
All really good suggestions for SB cards, thank you. I really like Rest in Peace too. I probably should cut the Needles for Surgical Extractions.
Stony Silence is very strong, and I would replace 1 Disenchant and 1 Pithing Needle for it, just don't have it in digital.
Also, meant to add to the other post, this is my moto list, I have fetches in paper but I pace myself on spending on moto lol. I play fetches in paper for the Emeria ramp with Titan.
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-I would cut the Mortarpods for sure. Too low impact of a card, and you usually block enough/wrath enough to have creatures in the yard to recur.
-In place of the Mortarpods I would add 1 Supreme Verdict and 1 Detention Sphere. Both cards really give this deck strong legs in game one against fair decks. Also the extra Verdict will almost assuredly net you some of your own creatures in the grave yard to recur.
-I think Pilgrim's Eye is a playable card, and played Pilgrim's Eye for a long time in this deck. I think this slot is better suited however to your choice of Kitchen Finks/Blade Splicer. I like Blade Splicer right now, but have played both, and mix it up from time to time. Gideon of the Trials is good too, but pricey if trying to stay budget.
-Spreading Seas is strong right now, and budget friendly. 3 or 4 is a good number, but not necessary in the main deck in my opinion. Perfectly fine to do so, though, decks have had strong results doing so. Very strong side board card for problem land match ups plus Ghost Quarter. I would take out the Ojutai's Command for these, along with Condemn.
-I love Negate in this deck, and run 3 or 4. I recommend at least having some in the side board. There have been plenty of lists that have had strong results running no counters at all, but personally I get a ton of work from Negate. 2 is probably fine, I just like to have one in my hand every game =] Well almost.
-I like Tormod's Crypt over Relic, does what we need it do, and we aren't hurting for card draw. Just better at what it does I think for this particular deck.
-I like the 2 Dispel in the side board, that card is sneaky good some times. Side board is fine and budget friendly.
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I think the deck is fine for anyone getting into Modern, though I don't think control decks are the way to go for new players. Maybe Standard players looking to get into Modern, but a fresh noob might be better suited to Burn or Death and Taxes. I encourage you to do your next article on the deck, and post back with a link =]
-I prefer 4 counters of your choice in the main. For me, Negate helps win those Game 1's that aren't winnable without a way to stop what the opponent is doing. Generally, if the opponent has a creature based strategy, a deck like this will out grind them with card advantage/lifegain/wrath effects eventually. I don't mind creatures hitting the board too much, so that is the purpose for the Negates, hits what I am concerned most about. Against those decks where you know it isn't safe to tap out, I just don't if I'm holding a counter. Helps us anyway, if we get to hand size cool we can discard something useful to bring back, and hopefully we are drawing lands during all the waiting. I will admit though there are times where they sit in my hand and do nothing, but of course i just side those out for game 2.
I go back and forth with counters of any kind in the main vs side only vs none. I am a fan of the counters right now, but I don't think a build that doesn't run them is wrong.
-I love Phantasmal Image, I might swap out a Finks for one. In my older list, I would run 2 Phantasmal Image and the full set of Court Hussar, instead of the Finks. Also ran 4 Lone Missionary, this was before I ran Spreading Seas. I went down 2 Court Hussar when I added Spreading Seas.
-Good idea on Pithing Needle, I think that is probably better than running 3 Stony Silence.
2x Court Hussar
4x Flickerwisp
3x Lone Missionary
4x Sun Titan
4x Wall of Omens
3x Kitchen Finks
Spells 16
4x Path to Exile
3x Detention Sphere
3x Supreme Verdict
2x Spreading Seas
4x Negate
3x Emeria
4x Flooded Strand
4x Hallowed Fountain
4x Ghost Quarter
1x Island
7x Plains
1x Prairie Stream
2x Spreading Seas
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Detention Sphere
4x Mana Leak
3x Stony Silence
3x Tormod's Crypt
1x Swan Song
Also, love the talk of the Mono W builds. I like the more controlling approach, with 3x O Rings/Wraths, Gideon Jura, etc. As has been mentioned, Finks vs Splicer is alwaysa a meta call, both are strong 3 drops in their own right.
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Want to fit Boom/Bust as well somewhere.
Edit to add budget is not a huge concern. I don't have some of the cards I would like, but will get them if I feel the deck has any potential beyond just what I play when I'm bored with my traditional Skred deck.
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I prefer the more traditional brew with Reckoners and Dragons, but have been goofing around with a pure Ponzaish version of Skred, and would appreciate any feedback. I reallllly wish Pillage was Modern legal, but alas.
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2 Scrying Sheets
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Skred
3 Anger of the Gods
3 Stone Rain
4 Molten Rain
3 Avalanche Riders
4 Koth of the Hammer
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
4 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
In a perfect world, the idea of the deck is to keep the opponent off color/off mana long enough to stick a threat and ride it to victory. Rabblemaster is squishy, but if you can manage to keep your opponent off color/mana, he is very effective for 3 mana. He is also a nice target for removal, helping the other threats stay alive a few extra turns in some cases.
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Side board is fluid, as I am still messing with the deck, but it always has 4 Relics, 1 Anger, and Artifact hate. The lone Chandra, Pyromaster should be Torch of Defiance probably, but isn't due to budget reasons.
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The deck does pretty well against almost anything that isn't playing Blue or Combo. My question is, how can it do better? How can I tune it to be faster? Is SSG worth running in a build like this? I think 4 Blood Moon is too many but maybe not? I appreciate any feedback.
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I played G/W for awhile, several different builds/curves. I really began to miss the subtle differences of the cards after some runs with it. The ability of Hussar once you deviate from U for instance. When i played G/W, I used Oath of Nissa for card selection. Oath was OK, but it didn't block, and it is limited in what it can fetch(can't fetch a Path if you need it). It didn't provide the value Hussar did and the deck missed that. Also, the difference between Wrath and Verdict is huge. Maybe it is just my meta (MTGO) but I have played against a lot of decks where if I weren't playing Verdict I would have lost. I play W almost exclusively now when I play Modern, so I know how I often I wish I was playing Verdict lol =] G/W was a pretty strong deck, but I felt the matches it lost due to it's limitations(not my own miss plays) would have been winnable with U/W. I have not experimented with the new G walkers, they do interest me though.
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I am not trying to stir anything up, I just think it is an interesting aspect of this deck, which way to take it splash wise. I have seen B discussed, and I like the idea of it, I just don't have any experience with it.
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D90Dennis14- Thank you for the advice. I haven't played the U/W version in quite some time, and am looking forward to fitting in Spell Queller. I think it could possibly add more to the deck than Pilgrim's Eye for sure. Eye is a weird card though, sneaky it is =]
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I am still running the Mono W list I posted a a page or so back, and tweaking it as needed.
3x Court Hussar
4x Flickerwisp
1x Phantasmal Image
1x Restoration Angel
4x Lone Missionary
4x Sun Titan
4x Wall of Omens
3x Pilgrim's Eye
4x Path to Exile
3x Detention Sphere
3x Supreme Verdict
Artifacts 2
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
Lands 24
3x Emeria
4x Flooded Strand
4x Hallowed Fountain
4x Ghost Quarter
1x Island
7x Plains
1x Prairie Stream
I really like Crucible, but damn it hurts the pocket book!!! Even in digital, and this is the only deck I would put it in. Sometimes I make myself feel better when buying pricey cards because a lot of them can fit in multiple decks, and I am sure Crucible can too, but damn. Please excuse the venting lol.
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Has anyone had any experience running a mix of GQ and Tec Edge? Something like a 4/2 split. I know it is counter productive to a degree since we are trying to get Emeria online, but I am currently tinkering in Mono W and just curious as to if anyone has ran a mana base with 6 colorless only sources and its impact on the deck. Just don't know if it is worth it to run 6 lands that don't count as plains. Is 6 too much?
Witless Wizard- Tough sledding on your outing, but it is always nice to see B/W tokens with this deck =] Thank you for the report.
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Just a random thought, but if you were running a U/W list w/Skyspawner in the main, is Drowner of Hope worth considering? Maybe as a one of? Just a random thought, I do appreciate the ability, and if you are running Eldrazi Skyspawner the Scion count may be enough to be useful. I doubt it, but just wanted to throw out there for the boards opinion.
Leyline is strong too, thanks for the good suggestions.
Thank you for your input, I have run the 2/2 split of Solemn and Eye, and the mana cost on Solemn is why I choose Eye at this point. That card is definitely on the radar though, maybe a 3/1 Eye/Solemn split or replace something with it...that is always the tricky part. Both abilities are in need in the deck.
On Jace, Vryn's Prodigy- Interesting thought, I will need to stew on that.
True enough. I do really like Rest in Peace =] Counter productive for sure.
Thank you for your input, it is appreciated. We must have similar thought process, as most of the cards you mentioned I have already experimented with hehe. Kitchen Finks is a much better card than Inquisitor Exarch, no doubt. But in this shell, this card just does a lot more than one would think. Life gain I get plenty with the 4 Lone Missionary, but that 2 damage from Exarch is hard to avoid, and if I get to bounce it or recur it, it can get pretty significant. I had Finks in the original list, and it performed fine. I would cut the Blade Splicer before I cut the Exarch I think. Still tinkering.
Knight of the White Orchid is another really good suggestion, never tried in this build because I needed the peace of mind that it would fetch me a land every time, but it is probably better for the curve might be good to run a split maybe 2/2 of each. I just think it is crucial to get the land every time. Sometimes you get in an awkward situation with the Knight, but he is still a 2/2 first strike.
The original list had 3 Wrath MB, but I found more people were playing control on moto lately (in my experience) so I trimmed down to 2. In the match ups where I would board in a full set, they are still winnable with 2. Chump till I stick a Titan, and with 26 dudes that is a lot of chumps =] 3 is optimal though, I do agree.
All really good suggestions for SB cards, thank you. I really like Rest in Peace too. I probably should cut the Needles for Surgical Extractions.
Stony Silence is very strong, and I would replace 1 Disenchant and 1 Pithing Needle for it, just don't have it in digital.
Also, meant to add to the other post, this is my moto list, I have fetches in paper but I pace myself on spending on moto lol. I play fetches in paper for the Emeria ramp with Titan.