I still think Temur Energy is the best overall deck, but fixing the tokens match isn't a problem for UB control anyway. The problem stems from trying to finish the game off in a reasonable fashion. I actually wonder if we're supposed to be more aggressive in that match. We have several tools to fix that if it becomes a main stay in Standard.
Try using Gifted Aetherborn in the board against tokens, it keeps your life up and they board out push so it stays around and will eventually eat a cast out. A basic u/b list should beat temur, or, at least, that's what I've experienced online. The guy who won the nationals today has the best list I've seen for this meta game. The Glint-Sleeve Siphoner is great against control mirrors.
Yeah Kiora is actually always nice d:)
Could be Kumena also a Planeswalker for Merfolk ?
BR Angrath & GW Ajani would make most sense if color distribution shall be equal for all colors with each color covered twice.
Colors are never equal and color distribution is never equal, as was proven by the last three sets.
I have to say, Ixalan Merfolk are by far the best looking Merfolk in MtG history. They just pop in a way that previous Merfolk haven't IMO. They stand out in such a visually striking way that they're immediately iconic, like the Elves of Lorwyn and the Vampires of Zendikar.
\
In stark contrast with the vampires, which on a white card look like they are almost ghost-like. Seriously, Vona, Butcher of Magan is practically glowing like Mr. Burns out of the Simpsons X-Files parody.
This was an easy meta game to predict. Temur and red are dominant and black has massive gaps in its removal package. Vraska's contempt is pretty good, but only in a control shell. Black needs Doom Blade and Diabolic Edict bad. Also, Kalitas is sorely missed.
Especially since, in magical Christmas land, he can see play in standard on turn 4 with haste (with the dino reducers). Possibly even turn 3 if you're playing in the magical Christmas Heaven that you go to if you die in magical Christmas land (It might require your opponent to cast Old-Growth Dryads).
Against the kind of decks most people would be using it against, having it down on turn 5 is definitely good enough. My favorite card in the set is still a toss up between Legion's Landing and Ripjaw Raptor, though. I think either one could find a home in modern, and I'm definitely trying the landing in my BW tokens deck.
Yeah, Ripjaw Raptor is pretty damn good. I was always fond of the Phyrexian Obliterator. I don't know if the enrage mechanic works the same as the obliterator. But, if I were to come back to standard, I'd be playing g/r midrange of some sort. While the dinosaurs may not be a complete tribal deck, there are several with Grave Titan level power. So, they should be able to find homes.
Pirates are the tribe that will work the best out of the box right now. Been trying to make dinosaurs work and while it is possible to make a good mid-range build, they aren't really tribal in any sense of the word. The "Tribe" is actually split in two different sides: The natives who are on the lower end of the curve that have ramp and other abilities with dinosaurs, and then there is the dinosaurs themselves sitting on the high end. The best dinosaurs by far are Ripjaw Raptor and Carnage Tyrant. The rest of the slots are sort of all over the place. Three drops are pretty cluttered right now in Naya with the likes of Rhonas the Indomitable, Gideon of the Trials, Rishkar, Peema Renegade, Resilient Khenra, etc, without even going into support cards. Two drops are a bit more open, but it's hard to beat Glory-Bound Initiate and Earthshaker Khenra. One drops are mostly existing support spells like Blossoming Defense, Shock, Magma Spray, etc.
Pirates are crazy on tempo and aggro. Not only did they get some good support cards in Kaladesh block, the cards that work with them are aggressively costed and extremely good.
I don't think you can go full dinosaur aggro/midrange without support. Also, I don't think you can throw in random energy creatures and cards and expect the same type of results as g/r and temur. Naya ramp, with the bottom end filled with copious amounts of burn, may be the best way to go. Single target and relatively efficient sweepers should be main along with hour of Hour of Devastation at the top end of your removal. I'd also make it with chandra, glorybringer, and some Walking Ballista to dump your mana into late. Hell, I could even see a Jund version being good, with a splash in black for discard, push-ed, and never to return. But naya seems like the strongest option all around. The big white dino and the naya dino are too good to pass up.
Pirates don't seem good enough to compete. The red removal is way too good and there is way too much for the little terds to see play. I know what waizards was thinking, though. They probably expected a control deck(u/w), a midrange deck(dinos), and pirates. Pirates will fill the role of anti control... But, red decks already fill that role well enough and pirates lack something, actually, they lack a lot of things. Blue/red pirates may be better than a grixis version. U/R would have better tempo, too.
red pirates don't seem great to me. if you want to play the aggresive rdw deck you play runap red, not pirates. Blue/black tempo/hand disruption: that's where pirates will shine. ARRRR
Usually, simple deck designs win more than complex, mana hungry designs. The black pirates aren't quite as good as jamming a Rowdy Crew and getting lucky. Ramunap red is a testament to that, all the deck needs is proper sequencing to be effective. RDW is a simple formula, u/b pirates is trying to be cute and will often times get smashed by strategies that rely on simply attacking and playing removal.
People are under-estimating pirates just like they did spirits. They are gearing them towards Tempo, and Tempo is one of the hardest to play and work with decks out there. I personally play tempo to death and pirates has the tools to potentially beat aggro easily. The problem isn't the removal as much as the number of hours one has to practice to do it right.
They got what it takes to do some serious hurt. The question is what spells are left after rotation to fit the archetype. Some people are also using Supreme Will, but I prefer Galestrike since it will bounce the attacker back and net me a card. Also, they do have Kitesail Freebooter. The one thing I hate about black at the moment is that we'll be stuck with Vanquish the Weak as the instant speed creature kill spell instead of murder or hero's downfall.
Yeah, Vraska's Contempt is neither efficient or playable, but is the only option black has at instant speed. Kitesail Freebooter seems playable, but it's so fragile. In multiples, it will be decent, but more of a nuisance than a powererful.
The freebooter has the same problem Spell Queller had, in that you end up playing protect the queen to avoid letting them get their card back. I suppose there is Deadeye Tracker...
In any case, the freebooter is still probably the best fit in the deck as it stands. What is the worse case that happens? Usually it goes into a play of "opponent attempts to shock/bolt grabby creature, player flickers it and draws a card, giving the opponent back the spell he wants, but then loses another spell". Then, they bolt it again, they get the old spell back, but they had to use two burn spells on the same creature to get back their one spell and the player isn't down any cards from it.
True, but you're down cards. I think the Deadeye Tracker is good. It isn't as good as Cryptbreaker, and crypt breaker had to have good cards supporting it or it was just a token generator. The tracker won't build you an army and the cost is high for a 1/1 counter. It's the best black creature in the set, though. The black pirates are interesting tricks, but cards like Rigging Runner, Captain Lannery Storm, Captivating Crew, and Rowdy Crew are going to be the best pirates supported by blue counters and counter creatures. The black pirates are too mana intensive for mediocre rewards. Oh, and Wily Goblin. The red creatures offer the most card advantage and won't kill tempo. But, I see no reason to put black in unless you're a glutton for punishment.
People are under-estimating pirates just like they did spirits. They are gearing them towards Tempo, and Tempo is one of the hardest to play and work with decks out there. I personally play tempo to death and pirates has the tools to potentially beat aggro easily. The problem isn't the removal as much as the number of hours one has to practice to do it right.
They got what it takes to do some serious hurt. The question is what spells are left after rotation to fit the archetype. Some people are also using Supreme Will, but I prefer Galestrike since it will bounce the attacker back and net me a card. Also, they do have Kitesail Freebooter. The one thing I hate about black at the moment is that we'll be stuck with Vanquish the Weak as the instant speed creature kill spell instead of murder or hero's downfall.
Yeah, Vraska's Contempt is neither efficient or playable, but is the only option black has at instant speed. Kitesail Freebooter seems playable, but it's so fragile. In multiples, it will be decent, but more of a nuisance than owererful.
Pirates are the tribe that will work the best out of the box right now. Been trying to make dinosaurs work and while it is possible to make a good mid-range build, they aren't really tribal in any sense of the word. The "Tribe" is actually split in two different sides: The natives who are on the lower end of the curve that have ramp and other abilities with dinosaurs, and then there is the dinosaurs themselves sitting on the high end. The best dinosaurs by far are Ripjaw Raptor and Carnage Tyrant. The rest of the slots are sort of all over the place. Three drops are pretty cluttered right now in Naya with the likes of Rhonas the Indomitable, Gideon of the Trials, Rishkar, Peema Renegade, Resilient Khenra, etc, without even going into support cards. Two drops are a bit more open, but it's hard to beat Glory-Bound Initiate and Earthshaker Khenra. One drops are mostly existing support spells like Blossoming Defense, Shock, Magma Spray, etc.
Pirates are crazy on tempo and aggro. Not only did they get some good support cards in Kaladesh block, the cards that work with them are aggressively costed and extremely good.
I don't think you can go full dinosaur aggro/midrange without support. Also, I don't think you can throw in random energy creatures and cards and expect the same type of results as g/r and temur. Naya ramp, with the bottom end filled with copious amounts of burn, may be the best way to go. Single target and relatively efficient sweepers should be main along with hour of Hour of Devastation at the top end of your removal. I'd also make it with chandra, glorybringer, and some Walking Ballista to dump your mana into late. Hell, I could even see a Jund version being good, with a splash in black for discard, push-ed, and never to return. But naya seems like the strongest option all around. The big white dino and the naya dino are too good to pass up.
Pirates don't seem good enough to compete. The red removal is way too good and there is way too much for the little terds to see play. I know what waizards was thinking, though. They probably expected a control deck(u/w), a midrange deck(dinos), and pirates. Pirates will fill the role of anti control... But, red decks already fill that role well enough and pirates lack something, actually, they lack a lot of things. Blue/red pirates may be better than a grixis version. U/R would have better tempo, too.
Ignores obvious reference to fatal push because it defeats his argument, then continues with the condescending remarks and yet another nickname given to me because.......well I guess attempting to bully people is the only way to win an imaginary argument against facts? Rainbows aren't needed. I specifically said earlier in the thread that I like this set because it's NOT amazing, but rather balanced and lends itself to creative deckbuilding; not just 2 mana instant speed removal that takes out the indestructible mythics. I like good removal, but we done need several busted removal spells just in one color.
You have no argument except 'what about push lol'. All of your arguments are poorly made and most of the time you are saying stuff like 'ignore the troll lol' and 'he gets his opinions from an article lol'. Also, you provide no facts and continue to be belligerent after a moderator told everyone to stop. You, are the true bully. Go back to my original post and chart the path you took immediately after my first post, which was innocuous. The fact is this, if I don't agree with your viewpoint, you move immediately to name calling and insults.
Red: the color that has been relegated to a splash only color for the last few years finally has a tier 1 deck and the problem is that its too powerful? maybe it is, after years of playing WotC's failed Big Red experiment, its about time red was actually good again. I don't think I ever remember red being the strongest color. But hey, he finally made an actual point about green getting 5-6 playable cards each set and being pushed. But then the argument falls apart again when mentioning black, which still has a removal spell so "push"ed that its one of the best modern removal spells, at it's disposal, and blue is currently stronger cards wise in standard than it has been in around a decade. So what I'm really hearing is, "why can't black always be busted, because I like black, and it's not busted in this set, so the whole set is garbage, and I'm not condescending, you are"
Or, why is there only one playable black deck every two to three years. Yeah, black is going to be fine and everything will be great and standard will thrive and this set is great. Did I tell you what you want to hear? This set is amazing and pirates are amazing and dinosaurs are amazing and it's going to be awesome! Four mana removal is awesome, and the lifegain, so relevant. Walk the plank, awesome two mana kill spell that will define standard against 24 hasted creatures. Man, what was I thinking with all the good removal in black. Push-ed black removal is riiight! The first black removal spell to make it into modern since dismember. I really wish wizards would stop making so much push-ed black removal spells, that's just dumb lol. And bontu's last reckoning... What!?!? Pure value. Best card in the set, by far... Should probably be banned in all formats for being too op lol.
A 2 cost sorcery murder that just can't hit merfolk is standard playable - it's no worse than Roast in speed, CMC, and target limitation and people played Roast.
And Vraska's Contempt - it costs 1 more than Hero's Downfall, but has two advantages relative to it (most relevantly, exile instead of destroy means actually hitting both flavours of AKH-block Gods).
They aren't pushed-like-Push, but they're perfectly in line with typical standard removal.
It's all relative to which decks are being played.
So how much meta-foresight do you expect them to have at set design time? Do you think they knew, when they were designing this, that Ranumap Red would be running rampant? Or maybe they expected decks featuring the gods, or decks featuring embalm-eternalize, to be prominent (in either case, the exiling would be more relevant)? Did they expect at Ixalan design time that Marvel would be riding the banned list?
You see the cards as they apply to the meta at the instant they get spoiled... but they (a) were working with their prediction of the meta, which may not have been accurate, and (b) to some degree with some foresight of the cards (or, at least, possible play styles) coming in the next few expansions that will share Standard with this for two years.
(Not that we've even really seen where the meta is going when those Eldrazi planes rotate - the meta has a tendency to take surprise turns at rotation and decks that nobody saw coming dominate, seldom the same ones that were dominating just before the rotation).
Let's revisit this conversation in a month or two.
A 2 cost sorcery murder that just can't hit merfolk is standard playable - it's no worse than Roast in speed, CMC, and target limitation and people played Roast.
And Vraska's Contempt - it costs 1 more than Hero's Downfall, but has two advantages relative to it (most relevantly, exile instead of destroy means actually hitting both flavours of AKH-block Gods).
They aren't pushed-like-Push, but they're perfectly in line with typical standard removal.
It's all relative to which decks are being played.
Yeah, that's great. Timmy gets a new edh card. But, it has no bearing on a standard dominated by two decks, an abundance of casual cards, and weak tribes. Which, has been my point since the beginning.
Also, don't talk to me about being condescending after his tirade of netdeck and troll comments, just because I dislike this new set and hate what standard will become.
When I called you condescending I referred to your blanket dismissal of casual magic. I couldn't care less as to wheter you were flaming Gmiller or not, that's for mods to decide.
Now that you have acknowledged that your actual problem with this set is how you belive it will affect standard, your previous comments seem even more nonsensical. A set can affect standard and also contain a janky expensive sorcery, in fact most do.
Exactly, most do. It has become a trend with wizards to print horrible black and blue 7-8 mana sorceries. But, that was just an example. My problem is this, wizards has made a set with at least 5-6 playable green cards. They have also made some good red cards that will fit into existing decks. There is a massive disparity in power level between green and red, and the rest of the colors, in particular, black. The black removal of this set is some of the worst junk they've made. The removal doesn't fit into any deck and does not beneift from cards like Torrential Gearhulk.
I've said the same thing over and over again and it's becoming redundant at this point. I'm done, thanks for listening. Little Timmy can now go on to talk about netdecks and commander.
This article came out yesterday. That article reinforces what I feared would and will happen in standard. Why do I think and feel this way? It is because I've seen wizards do this before, time and time again. It doesn't take a genius level intellect to figure out that cards like Boneyard Parley are junk, yet, it will fit into someone's Lothar of the Hillpeople edh deck. It's a trend really, every set they've made a 7-8 mana black sorcery that is unplayable garbage outside of edh.
Once again, this stuff is really condescending. The existence of big, splashy casual cards do not mean whatever cards you like can't exist too. If Wakening Sun's Avatar is perfect for some Timmy's Timeweaver Rumnas EDH list, then yay for Timmy! He's having fun, playing cards that were made for him! I wonder what that would be like.
Yeah, that's great. Timmy gets a new edh card. But, it has no bearing on a standard dominated by two decks, an abundance of casual cards, and weak tribes. Which, has been my point since the beginning.
Also, don't talk to me about being condescending after his tirade of netdeck and troll comments, just because I dislike this new set and hate what standard will become.
There's an article at channel fireball that sums up my feelings of this set and I'll provide a link to it. This set reinforces existing archtypes in standard, it gives modern blue decks a new card draw spell, but overall, it's a commander set in disguise. Wizard's seems to be eating design space for the casual crowd and for weak tribal cards. Not dinosaurs, but the the other tribes that aren't on par with dinosaurs. Also, this set caters to certain colors while other colors get archaic draw, removal and discard.
Funny how you talk about a commander set, then you say that dinosaur is the strongest tribe. Dinosaurs won't make any impact in commander, they will be like a mayael the anima tribal wurm deck.
Hey don't fall for the trap of talking to this person. They just go on these threads and try to troll people. The truth is all of that person opinions are ripped straight from articles like the one they posted, rather than coming from actual analysis and thought. This set is meant to be a standard set that brings power creep back down to manageable levels by forcing players to make creative synergistic decks and not just jam another good stuff deck down everyone's throats. This set actually looks particularly weak for edh and I don't even routinely play it. but then again I actually read the cards and think about them rather than just dismiss them all as jank because they don't easily slide directly into my net deck
I've been saying the same thing for weeks, you infantile pilluck. This article came out yesterday. That article reinforces what I feared would and will happen in standard. Why do I think and feel this way? It is because I've seen wizards do this before, time and time again. It doesn't take a genius level intellect to figure out that cards like Boneyard Parley are junk, yet, it will fit into someone's Lothar of the Hillpeople edh deck. It's a trend really, every set they've made a 7-8 mana black sorcery that is unplayable garbage outside of edh.
Try using Gifted Aetherborn in the board against tokens, it keeps your life up and they board out push so it stays around and will eventually eat a cast out. A basic u/b list should beat temur, or, at least, that's what I've experienced online. The guy who won the nationals today has the best list I've seen for this meta game. The Glint-Sleeve Siphoner is great against control mirrors.
Colors are never equal and color distribution is never equal, as was proven by the last three sets.
This was an easy meta game to predict. Temur and red are dominant and black has massive gaps in its removal package. Vraska's contempt is pretty good, but only in a control shell. Black needs Doom Blade and Diabolic Edict bad. Also, Kalitas is sorely missed.
Yeah, Ripjaw Raptor is pretty damn good. I was always fond of the Phyrexian Obliterator. I don't know if the enrage mechanic works the same as the obliterator. But, if I were to come back to standard, I'd be playing g/r midrange of some sort. While the dinosaurs may not be a complete tribal deck, there are several with Grave Titan level power. So, they should be able to find homes.
Usually, simple deck designs win more than complex, mana hungry designs. The black pirates aren't quite as good as jamming a Rowdy Crew and getting lucky. Ramunap red is a testament to that, all the deck needs is proper sequencing to be effective. RDW is a simple formula, u/b pirates is trying to be cute and will often times get smashed by strategies that rely on simply attacking and playing removal.
True, but you're down cards. I think the Deadeye Tracker is good. It isn't as good as Cryptbreaker, and crypt breaker had to have good cards supporting it or it was just a token generator. The tracker won't build you an army and the cost is high for a 1/1 counter. It's the best black creature in the set, though. The black pirates are interesting tricks, but cards like Rigging Runner, Captain Lannery Storm, Captivating Crew, and Rowdy Crew are going to be the best pirates supported by blue counters and counter creatures. The black pirates are too mana intensive for mediocre rewards. Oh, and Wily Goblin. The red creatures offer the most card advantage and won't kill tempo. But, I see no reason to put black in unless you're a glutton for punishment.
Yeah, Vraska's Contempt is neither efficient or playable, but is the only option black has at instant speed. Kitesail Freebooter seems playable, but it's so fragile. In multiples, it will be decent, but more of a nuisance than owererful.
I don't think you can go full dinosaur aggro/midrange without support. Also, I don't think you can throw in random energy creatures and cards and expect the same type of results as g/r and temur. Naya ramp, with the bottom end filled with copious amounts of burn, may be the best way to go. Single target and relatively efficient sweepers should be main along with hour of Hour of Devastation at the top end of your removal. I'd also make it with chandra, glorybringer, and some Walking Ballista to dump your mana into late. Hell, I could even see a Jund version being good, with a splash in black for discard, push-ed, and never to return. But naya seems like the strongest option all around. The big white dino and the naya dino are too good to pass up.
Pirates don't seem good enough to compete. The red removal is way too good and there is way too much for the little terds to see play. I know what waizards was thinking, though. They probably expected a control deck(u/w), a midrange deck(dinos), and pirates. Pirates will fill the role of anti control... But, red decks already fill that role well enough and pirates lack something, actually, they lack a lot of things. Blue/red pirates may be better than a grixis version. U/R would have better tempo, too.
You have no argument except 'what about push lol'. All of your arguments are poorly made and most of the time you are saying stuff like 'ignore the troll lol' and 'he gets his opinions from an article lol'. Also, you provide no facts and continue to be belligerent after a moderator told everyone to stop. You, are the true bully. Go back to my original post and chart the path you took immediately after my first post, which was innocuous. The fact is this, if I don't agree with your viewpoint, you move immediately to name calling and insults.
Or, why is there only one playable black deck every two to three years. Yeah, black is going to be fine and everything will be great and standard will thrive and this set is great. Did I tell you what you want to hear? This set is amazing and pirates are amazing and dinosaurs are amazing and it's going to be awesome! Four mana removal is awesome, and the lifegain, so relevant. Walk the plank, awesome two mana kill spell that will define standard against 24 hasted creatures. Man, what was I thinking with all the good removal in black. Push-ed black removal is riiight! The first black removal spell to make it into modern since dismember. I really wish wizards would stop making so much push-ed black removal spells, that's just dumb lol. And bontu's last reckoning... What!?!? Pure value. Best card in the set, by far... Should probably be banned in all formats for being too op lol.
Did I poop enough rainbows for you, slick?
Let's revisit this conversation in a month or two.
It's all relative to which decks are being played.
Exactly, most do. It has become a trend with wizards to print horrible black and blue 7-8 mana sorceries. But, that was just an example. My problem is this, wizards has made a set with at least 5-6 playable green cards. They have also made some good red cards that will fit into existing decks. There is a massive disparity in power level between green and red, and the rest of the colors, in particular, black. The black removal of this set is some of the worst junk they've made. The removal doesn't fit into any deck and does not beneift from cards like Torrential Gearhulk.
I've said the same thing over and over again and it's becoming redundant at this point. I'm done, thanks for listening. Little Timmy can now go on to talk about netdecks and commander.
Yeah, that's great. Timmy gets a new edh card. But, it has no bearing on a standard dominated by two decks, an abundance of casual cards, and weak tribes. Which, has been my point since the beginning.
Also, don't talk to me about being condescending after his tirade of netdeck and troll comments, just because I dislike this new set and hate what standard will become.
I've been saying the same thing for weeks, you infantile pilluck. This article came out yesterday. That article reinforces what I feared would and will happen in standard. Why do I think and feel this way? It is because I've seen wizards do this before, time and time again. It doesn't take a genius level intellect to figure out that cards like Boneyard Parley are junk, yet, it will fit into someone's Lothar of the Hillpeople edh deck. It's a trend really, every set they've made a 7-8 mana black sorcery that is unplayable garbage outside of edh.