Guys, my deck has been screwing me over lately. How to get off this mindset and keep playing burn like I have been doing the last full year? I've changed nothing in my playstyle that makes me play worse, nor did I alter my list to a certain extend, the only changes have been to the SB due to local meta.
Lately my deck is either giving me all the lands or none and it's starting to get really frustrating. I've been playing the 19 lands stock list for quite some time, but the last weeks the RNG is insane. I either stick on 1 land, or get a ton of lands. Last week's PPTQ I even had more lands in play than my UW control opponent.
Again yesterday's PPTQ, I've never mulled as much, regularly to 5 only to keep a forced hand because going to 4 would mean even more disaster. From the 12-14 games (6 rounds) I've played I've seen I think a total of 4 Swiftspears and 7 Guides, rest was all spells. A ton of games where I never found my second land, or topdecking land when your opponent is on 3 or less. As a big thank you, round 3 gave me Martyr as opponent. I ended the day going 1-5 (had to wait until my buddy was done who luckily eventually ended up winning the RPTQ slot). Even on the way home, just after I cleaned my car's front window, a bird crapped on it a minute later! This was basically a quick recap of how the day went, or any last events I played burn.
A month ago I visited GP Brussels going 6-1-1 in side events including Modern double up. Yaay deck.
The deck is perfectly fine, another player playing close to the same list managed to top8 yesterday, almost getting to semifinals. Is it just a wave of incredibly unlucky RNG? How do you guys cope with this as I'm sure you've all been in the same place I'm in? Burn is frustrating me at the moment and takes away the fun of playing the deck if time after time things like this happen.
I remember recently I believe Brad Nelson published an article about not looking back and to just focus on the current game you're playing, not even think about g1 if you're playing g2/g3. I can understand the theory, but it's kinda hard if you get stuck on 1 or 8 lands in almost the entire tournament.
Hi Rakuto, just a few questions. Why aren't you playing a Sorin in the main? That card is insane. And how many times do you activate Mutavault as an attacker?
Also, I like Kitesail over Sculler, it's easier to cast with a similar effect and has additional evasion in the form of flying.
I don't think you want to play black for the reasons above. The black spells are player targeted and do nothing more than what the R or RW spells are already doing (better).
I don't get that list from <...> can't remember, the guy that top-8ed with Ash Zealot in the main board. Close to nothing is being cast from the graveyard and I can't imagine him playing it purely to have a 2/2 first striker with haste right? Anything I'm missing or is everyone else also scratching the back of their heads?
Played this deck at WNM and ate all the mid-range decks alive running Rakuto's list. Felt really good. I've been sour on Tidehollow for a while and have been meaning to try Freebooter. It was fantastic in my games. I missed not getting value though if I had a lot of Mana and a Displacer out.
I like that the list ran some Displacers since that card is a fantastic late game draw.
Ended up 3-1 losing to Mardu on some rusty play.
Cast down also felt really good with the current meta. Was able to remove things when a push would have been a dead draw. Specificly Hollow One or Depve Fish.
Do you have a latest update of the list you played?
I've played the deck for quite some time as well. It's nice to see some activity here again. BW Eldrazi will always be my pet deck, also foiled it for about 60%. I like the diversity, the angle, and that it's always under the radar. People also have no clue how to board against BW Eldrazi. It's been a while since I've played it though as I picked up Burn and I played that for like a year straight now. Yesterday Burn failed me on WNM, losing against UW and Spirits, so might even take BW to the PPTQ coming Sunday.
Sorin wins you games big time. His +1 is nuts. It's good when you've gone wide with Souls/Scions, but also a 6/5 lifelink trample Smasher does a lot of work. I've always played 1 or 2 main.
I dislike Eternal Scourge, it's a fun trick, but that's that. It has no value and is mostly ignored, and all other creatures either do something, or are bigger than he/she/it is.
I think Displacer is out of place in this deck. Its place is in BW Eldrazi Taxes where it has much more effect with blinking Blade Splicer for example.
My creature base has always been 4 Strangler, 4 TKS, 4 Smasher, and then 4 Reshaper or Tidehollow Sculler, just what I felt like. Reshaper replaces itself if not exiled, can ramp you when a land is revealed, is a blocker, can be cast turn 2, etc.
I don't think the deck has any issues in the current meta. In my opinion it eats other midrange decks alive. Aggro is pretty decent due to our creatures providing more value and are bigger than theirs. I can see a problem with KCI, but if your discard and relics come on point they can be stopped as well. It may even be a good choice for coming PPTQ. I would need to do some changes though as my list hasn't been updated since like Amonkhet. Cast Down would indeed be a nice addition and I see people playing Kitesails nowadays.
Yeah you’re probably right about him against RB. After giving it some thought, it doesn’t really make sense to board him in. With Abrade nothing remains on the board, at least the crucial parts, and Glorybringers and Phoenixes just fly over. It indeed is a stupid idea, thanks for the eye opening.
Regarding Karn main it’s just that I have no experience with that angle. It can’t do harm to do it, and like you say if I’m boarding it in in most matchups why not just main board it? It’s like I said, your experience with the deck exceeds mine by far so I’m happy you’re there to discuss.
Thanks Tiemuuu, will take your notes into consideration. Most of the plan is based on the reddit topic about paradoxical outcome. The Karn boarding is mostly based on their advice.
For UW Gift, bouncing the tokens with either the Exclusion Mage or Expertise seems decent to me. Or do you think Expertise is too slow against GPG?
For Mono Red, I can see your reasoning, although I still keep 2 Reservoir in the main. Going for 0 Commit, it just feels like an expensive card in the mu, although I can understand it allows you to save your keypieces from dying to Abrade. What would you suggest as a plan here with the given main/side?
I'm hesitant to play Karn main, I can understand it's good but is that the way you want to go? If so, I assume you're going into a 2 Rservoir main plan? Karn is nuts don't take me wrong, but to me feels like it's more a card to transition to and not play as your main wincon, or am I just mistaken here?
Thanks for your input, appreciated. And you have a ton more experience with the deck than I have so happy to take on advice.
DC
I agree with Tiemuuu that the splash is bad even if jhoira seems quite good.I think Karn is far superior for the outcome version (free spell with statuary in play) and Jhoira is probably better than karn if you go the colossus way. And you can't play more 4 drops in the outcome version without cutting key cards.
Karn is a good card but you cant realy compare it to Jhoira in the Outcome version.. Just an example of a difference between playing Jhoira and Karn, when the deck is comboing of
For me the discussion about Jhoira and Karn shows very nicely the approach to the deck. Karn version is similar to the (banned) CopyCat deck, that played a reasonable midrange game while threatening a combo win. Jhoira version is a true combo deck. I am not saying any version is better (though I prefer the combo version in bad matchups as monoG and mirror), but only want to show, that it is really hard to compare those 2 cards, as each one fills completaly different role.
That was some insane stuff happening right there hehe. Do you have a Jhoira list anywhere?
Hi, I think having a fast clock against Mono-G is fine, but usually they are a little faster, and a lot bigger. T2 Steel-Leaf is no rare sight. I think it really depends on having your bounces/shutdowns, or you lose on the spot at like t5.
Could I see your list? As you play Jhoira I'm curious as to what the list looks like. Doesn't the splash(?) for red make your deck inconsistent? Same goes for Baral, what did you cut to be able to play him? Doesn't he get in the way of setting up your combo? Just curious as I have no experience with either of the 2 in this deck.
I don't think lasting to turn 6 will happen a lot against Mono-G. That's why I'm unsure whether it should be played. That goes for a lot by the way when it comes to Mono-G. Or are we overthinking it and should Exclusion Mage/Aether Meltdown/Expertise be enough?
With your current SB, how do you board? Also, I see you went up to even 20 land main. Were you lacking a lot of land drops? Or is it perhaps because you'd rather keep map in play instead of saccing it to get your mana?
Been watching a lot of video's the last 4 weeks or so from both DiabloXSC as Tiemuuu (Hi Tiemuuu!) and I'm bringing the deck to GP Brussels this weekend. I'm still in the midst of figuring out what the SB should look like. The way I see it, aggro on a nut-draw ofc brings us a hard time, but can be winnable. Like most discussions I find, also here, Mono-G will give us a hard time no matter what they draw it seems.
So how do we play against Mono-G? More importantly, regarding the SB, do we find more value in Aether Meltdown shutting their big guys down, probably causing them to be unable to cast Ghalta since they lack the power to make his cost cheaper, or are we bouncing with Unsummon or Exclusion Mage, making them cast their creatures again and again, leaving a blocker and go for that way?
I'm not sold on The Antiquities War although I see others (Raphael Levy for example) boarding it in against RB, Grixis and Control decks. Is it really that good? I assume it's to overwhelm your opponent with the #3 on The Antiquities War where they lack answers to all of our attackers and dig+draw on the #1/#2 abilities?
Others I hear about Time of Ice, but that sounds even less impressive to me actually, especially Mono-G with Blossoming Defense, or is that just my feeling and the card is awesome?
Bummer that you ran into some unfortunate luck, but it happens sometimes.
I can see the appeal of the hand you kept in game 3 against Lantern. I might have been tempted to do it, but it's tough keeping a hand so heavy in 2s. If I were the Lantern player, I probably would have been milling lands away. Leyline is the thing you're hoping not to see by playing without Wear//Tear or DRev. I think the risk is worth it. After having played that way and gotten burned (har har) doing it, would you do it again?
Hatebears decks can be rough in general.
At least the post-gaming activities were enjoyable!
I would definitely play the list again, guess I was just unfortunate to run into Leyline. If it shows up again, or more/other enchantments that get in my way, I might switch back to RWg. I think Revelry beats Wear//Tear as it also does damage.
So I had a bit of bad luck yesterday, 1-3 drop on the full Boros list. No enchantment removal, only Smash to Smithereens against artifacts.
Round 1 (1-2) was against Lantern control which isn't too bad, but unfortunately game 2 Leyline of Sanctity blocked all cards in my hand and opponent eventually got the lock on. Game 3 I had a good hand against Lantern, Guide/Spike/Firecraft/3 Eidolon/Fetch. 1 land and all the Eidolons would completely destroy the Lantern player. In 7 turns(!) I didn't draw a single land, and that was even without the Shredder effects(!).
Round 2 (2-0) against UR control I won, both games I was either too fast or stockpiled Burn spells so he couldn't counter them all.
Round 3 (1-2) against RW hatebears where I eventually lost game 3 because his only out was having a Direfleet Daredevil in hand (vial on 2) to take one of my spells from the GY and kill me with it, where if he didn't I would've won. Guess what..
Round 4 (0-2) came up against a relatively bad player playing his own Zoo list. I drew 3-4 lands in a row game 1, and game 2 stuck on having only Inspiring Vantage and eventually he just got his board filled and I got nothing. In about 8 turns I didn't draw 1 land, not one.
Here I dropped, x-3 (5 rounds) is no use of continueing, especially with how the day went. I just play the 19-lands list I always play. It was probably just 'one of those days' that you have, where your deck either gives you all the lands or none at all. Those happen.
Oh well, after dropping spent some time gaming, went out for dinner with my wife, walked along the riverside afterwards and watched a movie later on today, best time ever.
Lately my deck is either giving me all the lands or none and it's starting to get really frustrating. I've been playing the 19 lands stock list for quite some time, but the last weeks the RNG is insane. I either stick on 1 land, or get a ton of lands. Last week's PPTQ I even had more lands in play than my UW control opponent.
Again yesterday's PPTQ, I've never mulled as much, regularly to 5 only to keep a forced hand because going to 4 would mean even more disaster. From the 12-14 games (6 rounds) I've played I've seen I think a total of 4 Swiftspears and 7 Guides, rest was all spells. A ton of games where I never found my second land, or topdecking land when your opponent is on 3 or less. As a big thank you, round 3 gave me Martyr as opponent. I ended the day going 1-5 (had to wait until my buddy was done who luckily eventually ended up winning the RPTQ slot). Even on the way home, just after I cleaned my car's front window, a bird crapped on it a minute later! This was basically a quick recap of how the day went, or any last events I played burn.
A month ago I visited GP Brussels going 6-1-1 in side events including Modern double up. Yaay deck.
The deck is perfectly fine, another player playing close to the same list managed to top8 yesterday, almost getting to semifinals. Is it just a wave of incredibly unlucky RNG? How do you guys cope with this as I'm sure you've all been in the same place I'm in? Burn is frustrating me at the moment and takes away the fun of playing the deck if time after time things like this happen.
I remember recently I believe Brad Nelson published an article about not looking back and to just focus on the current game you're playing, not even think about g1 if you're playing g2/g3. I can understand the theory, but it's kinda hard if you get stuck on 1 or 8 lands in almost the entire tournament.
Thanks
DC
Also, I like Kitesail over Sculler, it's easier to cast with a similar effect and has additional evasion in the form of flying.
Cheers,
DC
I don't get that list from <...> can't remember, the guy that top-8ed with Ash Zealot in the main board. Close to nothing is being cast from the graveyard and I can't imagine him playing it purely to have a 2/2 first striker with haste right? Anything I'm missing or is everyone else also scratching the back of their heads?
I've played the deck for quite some time as well. It's nice to see some activity here again. BW Eldrazi will always be my pet deck, also foiled it for about 60%. I like the diversity, the angle, and that it's always under the radar. People also have no clue how to board against BW Eldrazi. It's been a while since I've played it though as I picked up Burn and I played that for like a year straight now. Yesterday Burn failed me on WNM, losing against UW and Spirits, so might even take BW to the PPTQ coming Sunday.
Sorin wins you games big time. His +1 is nuts. It's good when you've gone wide with Souls/Scions, but also a 6/5 lifelink trample Smasher does a lot of work. I've always played 1 or 2 main.
I dislike Eternal Scourge, it's a fun trick, but that's that. It has no value and is mostly ignored, and all other creatures either do something, or are bigger than he/she/it is.
I think Displacer is out of place in this deck. Its place is in BW Eldrazi Taxes where it has much more effect with blinking Blade Splicer for example.
My creature base has always been 4 Strangler, 4 TKS, 4 Smasher, and then 4 Reshaper or Tidehollow Sculler, just what I felt like. Reshaper replaces itself if not exiled, can ramp you when a land is revealed, is a blocker, can be cast turn 2, etc.
I don't think the deck has any issues in the current meta. In my opinion it eats other midrange decks alive. Aggro is pretty decent due to our creatures providing more value and are bigger than theirs. I can see a problem with KCI, but if your discard and relics come on point they can be stopped as well. It may even be a good choice for coming PPTQ. I would need to do some changes though as my list hasn't been updated since like Amonkhet. Cast Down would indeed be a nice addition and I see people playing Kitesails nowadays.
Cheers,
DC
Regarding Karn main it’s just that I have no experience with that angle. It can’t do harm to do it, and like you say if I’m boarding it in in most matchups why not just main board it? It’s like I said, your experience with the deck exceeds mine by far so I’m happy you’re there to discuss.
Cheers
DC
For UW Gift, bouncing the tokens with either the Exclusion Mage or Expertise seems decent to me. Or do you think Expertise is too slow against GPG?
For Mono Red, I can see your reasoning, although I still keep 2 Reservoir in the main. Going for 0 Commit, it just feels like an expensive card in the mu, although I can understand it allows you to save your keypieces from dying to Abrade. What would you suggest as a plan here with the given main/side?
I'm hesitant to play Karn main, I can understand it's good but is that the way you want to go? If so, I assume you're going into a 2 Rservoir main plan? Karn is nuts don't take me wrong, but to me feels like it's more a card to transition to and not play as your main wincon, or am I just mistaken here?
Thanks for your input, appreciated. And you have a ton more experience with the deck than I have so happy to take on advice.
DC
Cheers
2x Aether Meltdown
1x Exclusion Mage
3x Karn, Scion of Urza
2x Navigator's Compass
3x Negate
1x Padeem, Consul of Innovation
1x Sorcerous Spyglass
2x Time of Ice
I have the following plan for the MU's, appreciate any tips or if you agree with the plan, I'd like to hear as well
RB:
IN: 2 Aether Meltdown, 3 Karn, Scion of Urza, 2 Time of Ice, 2 Navigator's Compass, 1 Exclusion Mage, 1 Sorcerous Spyglass
OUT: 1 Aetherflux Reservoir, 2 Metalspinner's Puzzleknot, 2 Commit // Memory, 1 Ornithopter, 1 Mox Amber, 1 Metallic Rebuke, 1 Sai, Master Thopterist, 2 Baral's Expertise
Grixis/UB Bolas:
IN: 3 Karn, Scion of Urza, 3 Negate
OUT: 2 Glint-Nest Crane, 1 Aetherflux Reservoir, 1 Mox Amber, 1 Ornithopter, 1 Baral's Expertise
Mono Green:
IN: 3 Karn, Scion of Urza, 2 Aether Meltdown, 1 Exclusion Mage, 2 Time of Ice, 1 Padeem, Consul of Innovation
OUT: 2 Glint-Nest Crane, 1 Aetherflux Reservoir, 2 Commit // Memory, 1 Ornithopter, 1 Mox Amber, 2 Metalspinner's Puzzleknot
GB Constrictor:
IN: 3 Karn, Scion of Urza, 1 Exclusion Mage, 2 Time of Ice, 1 Padeem, Consul of Innovation
OUT: 2 Glint-Nest Crane, 1 Aetherflux Reservoir, 1 Commit // Memory, 1 Ornithopter, 1 Metalspinner's Puzzleknot, 1 Mox Amber
Esper/UW/Nexus Fog:
IN: 3 Karn, Scion of Urza, 3 Negate, 1 Sorcerous Spyglass
OUT: 3 Baral's Expertise, 1 Aetherflux Reservoir, 1 Ornithopter, 1 Metalspinner's Puzzleknot, 1 Mox Amber
Mono U Storm:
IN: 3 Negate, 1 Sorcerous Spyglass
OUT: 2 Baral's Expertise, 1 Ornithopter, 1 Mox Amber
Mono Red:
IN: 2 Aether Meltdown, 3 Karn, Scion of Urza, 1 Time of Ice, 2 Navigator's Compass, 1 Exclusion Mage, 1 Padeem, Consul of Innovation
OUT: 1 Aetherflux Reservoir, 2 Metalspinner's Puzzleknot, 2 Commit // Memory, 3 Baral's Expertise, 1 Metallic Rebuke
UW Gift:
IN: 3 Negate, 1 Exclusion Mage
OUT: 2 Glint-Nest Crane, 1 Aetherflux Reservoir, 1 Mox Amber
Mono W/B:
IN: 2 Aether Meltdown, 3 Karn, Scion of Urza, 1 Exclusion Mage, 2 Time of Ice
OUT: 2 Glint-Nest Crane, 1 Aetherflux Reservoir, 1 Mox Amber, 2 Commit // Memory, 1 Ornithopter, 1 Metalspinner's Puzzleknot
Thanks in advance!
DC
Could I see your list? As you play Jhoira I'm curious as to what the list looks like. Doesn't the splash(?) for red make your deck inconsistent? Same goes for Baral, what did you cut to be able to play him? Doesn't he get in the way of setting up your combo? Just curious as I have no experience with either of the 2 in this deck.
Thanks,
DC
I don't think lasting to turn 6 will happen a lot against Mono-G. That's why I'm unsure whether it should be played. That goes for a lot by the way when it comes to Mono-G. Or are we overthinking it and should Exclusion Mage/Aether Meltdown/Expertise be enough?
With your current SB, how do you board? Also, I see you went up to even 20 land main. Were you lacking a lot of land drops? Or is it perhaps because you'd rather keep map in play instead of saccing it to get your mana?
Thanks,
DC
Been watching a lot of video's the last 4 weeks or so from both DiabloXSC as Tiemuuu (Hi Tiemuuu!) and I'm bringing the deck to GP Brussels this weekend. I'm still in the midst of figuring out what the SB should look like. The way I see it, aggro on a nut-draw ofc brings us a hard time, but can be winnable. Like most discussions I find, also here, Mono-G will give us a hard time no matter what they draw it seems.
So how do we play against Mono-G? More importantly, regarding the SB, do we find more value in Aether Meltdown shutting their big guys down, probably causing them to be unable to cast Ghalta since they lack the power to make his cost cheaper, or are we bouncing with Unsummon or Exclusion Mage, making them cast their creatures again and again, leaving a blocker and go for that way?
I'm currently holding this SB (1 open slot):
1x Aether Meltdown
1x Exclusion Mage
3x Karn, Scion of Urza
2x Navigator's Compass
3x Negate
1x Padeem, Consul of Innovation
1x Tezzeret, Artifice Master
2x The Antiquities War
I'm not sold on The Antiquities War although I see others (Raphael Levy for example) boarding it in against RB, Grixis and Control decks. Is it really that good? I assume it's to overwhelm your opponent with the #3 on The Antiquities War where they lack answers to all of our attackers and dig+draw on the #1/#2 abilities?
Others I hear about Time of Ice, but that sounds even less impressive to me actually, especially Mono-G with Blossoming Defense, or is that just my feeling and the card is awesome?
Cheers,
DC
Any comments will be helpful.
1x Arch of Orazca
1x Desert of the Fervent
1x Desert of the Indomitable
4x Forest
3x Hashep Oasis
1x Hostile Desert
3x Ipnu Rivulet
2x Island
4x Mountain
2x Rootbound Crag
1x Scavenger Grounds
4x Sheltered Thicket
3x Abrade
3x Commit // Memory
Sorcery - 18
2x Banefire
2x Grow from the Ashes
4x Hour of Devastation
4x Hour of Promise
4x Spring // Mind
2x Sweltering Suns
Artifact - 3
3x Thaumatic Compass
Enchantment - 2
2x Gift of Paradise
Creature - 4
4x Sifter Wurm
2x Carnage Tyrant
2x Chandra's Defeat
2x Magma Spray
2x Negate
2x Pelakka Wurm
2x Sorcerous Spyglass
2x Walking Ballista
1x Abrade
Not sure whether I should splash black and make room for Cut // Ribbons.
Thanks,
DC
I would definitely play the list again, guess I was just unfortunate to run into Leyline. If it shows up again, or more/other enchantments that get in my way, I might switch back to RWg. I think Revelry beats Wear//Tear as it also does damage.
DC
Round 1 (1-2) was against Lantern control which isn't too bad, but unfortunately game 2 Leyline of Sanctity blocked all cards in my hand and opponent eventually got the lock on. Game 3 I had a good hand against Lantern, Guide/Spike/Firecraft/3 Eidolon/Fetch. 1 land and all the Eidolons would completely destroy the Lantern player. In 7 turns(!) I didn't draw a single land, and that was even without the Shredder effects(!).
Round 2 (2-0) against UR control I won, both games I was either too fast or stockpiled Burn spells so he couldn't counter them all.
Round 3 (1-2) against RW hatebears where I eventually lost game 3 because his only out was having a Direfleet Daredevil in hand (vial on 2) to take one of my spells from the GY and kill me with it, where if he didn't I would've won. Guess what..
Round 4 (0-2) came up against a relatively bad player playing his own Zoo list. I drew 3-4 lands in a row game 1, and game 2 stuck on having only Inspiring Vantage and eventually he just got his board filled and I got nothing. In about 8 turns I didn't draw 1 land, not one.
Here I dropped, x-3 (5 rounds) is no use of continueing, especially with how the day went. I just play the 19-lands list I always play. It was probably just 'one of those days' that you have, where your deck either gives you all the lands or none at all. Those happen.
Oh well, after dropping spent some time gaming, went out for dinner with my wife, walked along the riverside afterwards and watched a movie later on today, best time ever.
Cheers,
DC