@Hayati2013, I still think Lightning Helix should've gone to the face on his T4 end of turn. Your life total was still quite high, so you could survive easily against TKS plus a possible Reality Smasher. This would've brought your opponent down a little more to 13 (3 damage instead of 2), still pumps Shrine and gives you 3 life. In the end this says TKS does 1 damage, but you took 3 from your oppponent's life total. It would have given you lethal a turn earlier if I'm not mistaken with Boros Charm + Shrine on 9 for 13.
@elconquistador1985, why do you still play AC in Naya colors instead of Boros with SC main? Does the life loss for color fixing weigh up against the damage output for AC? I assume you hope to play AC with atleast 1 attacking creature in play to get that extra damage (or 2 with Taylor) in. Is that the main reasoning perhaps?
Heck on the draw you need Blaze even more to get ahead.
What would you suggest then as in the full list of ins and outs both on the play and on the draw? I'm attending GP Birmingham in 3 days so want to be as complete as I can.
Personally I feel I have to keep Eidolon in on the play and side in Kor Firewalker on the play and on the draw. Palm should be in as well whether you're on the play or draw.
You're probably right by saying Blaze should stay in to get rid of their recurring damage.
How do you guys side in the mirror match? Obivously Kor comes in, probably Path to remove opposing Kor? On the play I would keep Eidolon in, on the draw side Eidolon out. On the play, what do you side out? Blaze?
Creature control is actually the key to the mirror, so I keep Blaze. I drop eidolon always and I also did out of green (since I play AC). I bring path, palm, kor and side skullcracks.
And for Burn I listed the following in my guide:
Vs Burn
P: -4 Searing Blaze +2 Kor Firewalker +2 Palm
D: -4 Eidolon -3 Searing Blaze +3 Path +2 Kor Firewalker +2 Palm
But as you were pointing out creature control is key. What would you suggest here?
How do you guys side in the mirror match? Obivously Kor comes in, probably Path to remove opposing Kor? On the play I would keep Eidolon in, on the draw side Eidolon out. On the play, what do you side out? Blaze?
Just to confirm to everyone who may have their doubts on playing Searing Blaze on Walking Ballista; if your opponent sacrifices Walking Ballista in response to you casting Searing Blaze on it, the 3 damage to the player will still be done as at the time of casting it, there were 2 legal targets (creature + player). Even if the creature disappears, there is still 1 legal target remaining (player), and then the spell will not fizzle.
I was testing with my friends this week and the question was if Searing Blaze should be cut for Atarka's Command. Searing Blaze is conditional 3 damage in the way that you have to have a land you can play or a fetch you can crack, and a creature as a target preferrably with 3 or less toughness. This is quite a lot of criteria to be able to do 3 damage. Wouldn't Atarka's Command be better in this case?
Also, if you have Lightning Helix and Boros Charm in your hand as well, you don't want to -not- crack your fetch to cast either of those hoping to get some value out of Searing Blaze right? You just want to do the 3 damage unconditionally.
Does no one play Molten Rain anymore? Especially with a lot of Eldrazi/Eldratron running around, would it be worth playing in the side? I guess there's nothing to cut it for?
Otherwise I wouldn't change a card in the maindeck, and I still prefer BW Processors as the deck name if you are, and you should be, playing Blight Herder. The card is unreal, I can't remember the last time I drew it and wished it were a Smasher.
Blight Herder > Reality Smasher in my GPT Experience..=)
Could you guys shine some light on why Blight Herder is so much better than Reality Smasher? Often I feel like Reality Smasher closes the game where Blight Herder gives your opponent another turn to do something. Or do you mean because of its cast trigger in the more processor type deck? What's your aim with using the Blight Herder decklist, getting scions/souls to buff with Sorin and attack?
Nice to see you are including SE main like I did. It really does the trick whenever you get it in hands as mostly there will be atleast 1 thing in the GY that you really want to get rid off, be it a spell, nonbasic land or an annoying creature; anything goes and mostly rips your opponent for 3 cards.
3x Fatal Push I'll have to try. It's 100% better for mana dorks which you really don't want to be Pathing.
After the B&R people in my region expect more Tron/(Grixis) Control, do you guys expect that as well? If it turns out to be correct that more control is going to be played adding more Caverns will be necessary.
I achieved my first top 8 ever! And the timing couldn't be better, at the Invitational event where I have been qualifying for last year.
Unfortunately, my first game in the top 8 I lost straight away with 2-0. It was against Grixis Delver where he had answers to everything. Letting me play my Lingering Souls and countering all my big dudes.
Won 2-1 against Living End
Game 1 he got me end of my turn 2 by exiling SSG and casting his cascade spell, cycling Street Wraith on the stack, drawing a Street Wraith, cycling a Street Wraith, drawing a Street Wraith and cycling a Street Wraith, then attacking for 12 his turn 3. Game 2 and 3 I won by Relic/Thoughtseize/TKS
Won 2-0 against UWR, basically 4 Reality Smashers he couldn't keep up with.
Lost 2-0 against Bring to Scapeshift, after losing game 1, and him playing Platinum Emperion and saying "now I wonder if you boarded out your Path's", which I indeed did
Won 2-1 against Burn. He won first game like he's supposed to, high pressure and loads of burn. Game 2 he had to mull to 4 and got me to 7 eventually, but he Skull Cracked end of my turn because he was stuck on 2 mana and felt like he had to do something, and in response I healed 4 with Blessed Alliance. Game 3 I healed off of Timely Reinforcements both times, 1 time from Blessed Alliance and once from a Sorin-ed Reality Smasher for 22 lifegain in total, that was too much apparently
I don't think 23 lands with no mind stones is where you want to be, this deck has a very high mana curve and you're basically short two lands (I would count two mind stones as 1 land). If you get stuck on two lands and miss even 1 land drop you're in trouble.
I also think CoBr replaced the need for inquisition, inquisition is such a dead draw late game and 8 discard is a lot, I feel like you'll find yourself top decking it mid to late game too often.
Fair enough, you're probably right regarding the lands. Mind Stone... I don't know. What does your typical turn 1-4 look like when playing Mind Stone, could you give me some examples? If your t1 isn't discard, aren't you dead by turn 3-4 by doing nothing turn 1-2 ?
CoBr over IoK, I get your point and haven't thought of it that way. I will definitely give that a go.
I agree that 23 lands and no Mind Stones may be too greedy. Mind Stone really makes 2-land keeps workable, when they would otherwise be very risky in many cases. I think you should at least stay at 24 lands if you aren't running Stone. Stone is a big help against Blood Moon, too.
I also agree that you might have too much hand disruption. Jund is all about hand disruption, and their best creature gets bigger as graveyards fill up, but they still run only 5-6 1 CMC disruption spells, backed by 3-4 Lili's. We have TKS, instead of Lili, which--unlike IoK/Thoughtseize--is still a good topdeck late game.
In the side, I tried Ghostly Prison for a little bit, but it didn't do what I wanted it to against the go-wide decks, so I haven't run it for a while. And I'm not sure what deck Leyline of Sanctity would be needed against, other than RG Valakut decks. The Burn match is already very good with Alliance and Brutality, I find. Have you considered Runed Halo? That can be hard to cast on-curve, though.
I feel like I need to rely a lot on hand disruption since we're a late starter. When playing Mind Stone turn 2 for example, you won't have any board presence up until turn 3. A t1 discard for me is a must in that case. Am I wrong here and do you have other experience with this? Blood Moon might see presence this weekend, so I'm leaning towards playing Mind Stone. Seeing you both play it in your decks and have no problems with it, I'll give it another go.
There aren't that many wide decks like Elves so for me I think Prison will do the job. You're probably right about Leyline although that prevents Junk/Jund from discarding our cards as well, except for Lili of course.
With 23 lands and 4 5-drops, you are going to have too many situations where you cannot play your cards. 23 mana gives you a 50% chance to have 5 lands if you have drawn 12 cards (including your opening hand), which means that even on the draw, NOT taking a mulligan, you will not be able to cast your Reality Smasher on turn 5 (percentage is a bit higher in reality due to Eldrazi Temple). With 24 lands and 2 Mind Stones this changes to 67%, so in 2 out of 3 games. This difference is what makes it probable that you can play your Smashers in the majority of your games, and not only in half. The same odds calculated for a turn 4 Though-Knot Seer: 68% to 80% with 11 cards drawn. For me, TKS is a must-have play in this deck, and these plays I usually try to get as close to 80% probability as I can (4 out of 5 games sees me able to make them, if I draw the card).
If you know your meta has many non-creature spells that really hurt you, then playing 6 discard spells is probably a good approach! You get your chances of drawing one latest turn 3 from 53% to 68%, given 10 cards (a little less with 9), which is the same argument as above, if this is a play you want to see in the majority of your games.
Excel is your friend
Jan
Agreed, although discard doesn't necessarily mean 'pick the non-creature spell'.
Coming Saturday is a championship after last year's qualifications. 24 players will be competing for the title. Expected meta is BW Eldrazi Taxes, Bant Eldrazi, Burn, Infect, Grixis Control, Kiln Fiend, Merfolk and Midrange. The players competing have also been seen with Madcap, 5C Bring to Light, Tron, Skred, Affinity, Titan Breach and Ad Nauseam. Yes it can go all directions
I'm thinking about playing this list, could I get your guys' thoughts? Last times I tried Mind Stone I didn't like it so much. I'm taking a more discard approach rather than the ramp.
@elconquistador1985, why do you still play AC in Naya colors instead of Boros with SC main? Does the life loss for color fixing weigh up against the damage output for AC? I assume you hope to play AC with atleast 1 attacking creature in play to get that extra damage (or 2 with Taylor) in. Is that the main reasoning perhaps?
Cheers
Personally I feel I have to keep Eidolon in on the play and side in Kor Firewalker on the play and on the draw. Palm should be in as well whether you're on the play or draw.
You're probably right by saying Blaze should stay in to get rid of their recurring damage.
Thanks a lot.
1 Shattering Spree
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Searing Blood
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Deflecting Palm
3 Path to Exile
3 Destructive Revelry
And for Burn I listed the following in my guide:
Vs Burn
P: -4 Searing Blaze +2 Kor Firewalker +2 Palm
D: -4 Eidolon -3 Searing Blaze +3 Path +2 Kor Firewalker +2 Palm
But as you were pointing out creature control is key. What would you suggest here?
Also, if you have Lightning Helix and Boros Charm in your hand as well, you don't want to -not- crack your fetch to cast either of those hoping to get some value out of Searing Blaze right? You just want to do the 3 damage unconditionally.
Lately the bigger creature decks (DS/Eldratron) are seeing a lot of play which play Death's Shadow, Gurmag Angler, Tasigur, the Golden Fang, Tarmogoyf, Thought-Knot Seer and Reality Smasher, all of which don't have any issue with Searing Blaze.
I'm currently playing a 4-off of everything but lands (no Lavaman) and for spells this means Lava Spike, Rift Bolt, Lightning Bolt, Lightning Helix, Skullcrack, Searing Blaze and Boros Charm, so the Searing Blaze could be cut for Atarka's Command.
What do you guys think about this?
I assume you mean "greater than" ( > ), or did you actually mean "less than" ( < )
Thanks and nice results!
3x Fatal Push I'll have to try. It's 100% better for mana dorks which you really don't want to be Pathing.
After the B&R people in my region expect more Tron/(Grixis) Control, do you guys expect that as well? If it turns out to be correct that more control is going to be played adding more Caverns will be necessary.
Please go with 2 CoBr, it's such a powerhouse.
Unfortunately, my first game in the top 8 I lost straight away with 2-0. It was against Grixis Delver where he had answers to everything. Letting me play my Lingering Souls and countering all my big dudes.
Won 2-1 against Living End
Game 1 he got me end of my turn 2 by exiling SSG and casting his cascade spell, cycling Street Wraith on the stack, drawing a Street Wraith, cycling a Street Wraith, drawing a Street Wraith and cycling a Street Wraith, then attacking for 12 his turn 3. Game 2 and 3 I won by Relic/Thoughtseize/TKS
Won 2-0 against UWR, basically 4 Reality Smashers he couldn't keep up with.
Lost 2-0 against Bring to Scapeshift, after losing game 1, and him playing Platinum Emperion and saying "now I wonder if you boarded out your Path's", which I indeed did
Won 2-1 against Burn. He won first game like he's supposed to, high pressure and loads of burn. Game 2 he had to mull to 4 and got me to 7 eventually, but he Skull Cracked end of my turn because he was stuck on 2 mana and felt like he had to do something, and in response I healed 4 with Blessed Alliance. Game 3 I healed off of Timely Reinforcements both times, 1 time from Blessed Alliance and once from a Sorin-ed Reality Smasher for 22 lifegain in total, that was too much apparently
ID-ed for top 8! Then lost against Grixis as said
Eventually I played this list:
1 Concealed Courtyard
1 Plains
2 Swamp
4 Caves of Koilos
2 Shambling Vent
3 Godless Shrine
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Marsh Flats
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
4 Path to Exile
1 Go for the Throat
Sorcery - 9
3 Toughtseize
2 Collective Brutality
4 Lingering Souls
Artifact - 6
2 Mind Stone
4 Relic of Progenitus
Planeswalker - 1
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
Creatures - 15
4 Wasteland Strangler
3 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seet
4 Reality Smasher
3 Blessed Alliance
2 Timely Reinforcements
2 Pithing Needle
2 Disenchant
2 Celestial Purge
2 Warping Wail
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Wrath of God
Fair enough, you're probably right regarding the lands. Mind Stone... I don't know. What does your typical turn 1-4 look like when playing Mind Stone, could you give me some examples? If your t1 isn't discard, aren't you dead by turn 3-4 by doing nothing turn 1-2 ?
CoBr over IoK, I get your point and haven't thought of it that way. I will definitely give that a go.
I feel like I need to rely a lot on hand disruption since we're a late starter. When playing Mind Stone turn 2 for example, you won't have any board presence up until turn 3. A t1 discard for me is a must in that case. Am I wrong here and do you have other experience with this? Blood Moon might see presence this weekend, so I'm leaning towards playing Mind Stone. Seeing you both play it in your decks and have no problems with it, I'll give it another go.
There aren't that many wide decks like Elves so for me I think Prison will do the job. You're probably right about Leyline although that prevents Junk/Jund from discarding our cards as well, except for Lili of course.
Agreed, although discard doesn't necessarily mean 'pick the non-creature spell'.
So with 3 Thoughtseizes and 2 Collective Brutality (and 4 Thought-Knot Seer) I'd be on 9 discard. Should be OK. Then I'll cut 3 Inquisition of Kozilek for 2 Mind Stone and 1 more land.
Thanks a lot for your inputs.
Coming Saturday is a championship after last year's qualifications. 24 players will be competing for the title. Expected meta is BW Eldrazi Taxes, Bant Eldrazi, Burn, Infect, Grixis Control, Kiln Fiend, Merfolk and Midrange. The players competing have also been seen with Madcap, 5C Bring to Light, Tron, Skred, Affinity, Titan Breach and Ad Nauseam. Yes it can go all directions
I'm thinking about playing this list, could I get your guys' thoughts? Last times I tried Mind Stone I didn't like it so much. I'm taking a more discard approach rather than the ramp.
1 Concealed Courtyard
1 Plains
2 Swamp
4 Caves of Koilos
2 Shambling Vent
3 Godless Shrine
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Marsh Flats
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Vault of the Archangel
4 Path to Exile
1 Go for the Throat
Sorcery - 12
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Toughtseize
2 Collective Brutality
4 Lingering Souls
Artifact - 4
4 Relic of Progenitus
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
Creatures - 15
4 Wasteland Strangler
3 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seet
4 Reality Smasher
As for the SB it will probably contain Blessed Alliance, Wrath of God, Ghostly Prison, Celestial Purge, Disenchant, Timely Reinforcements, Pithing Needle and Leyline of Sanctity. Exact SB still to be determined..
Main board options that I'm still thinking about:
-1 Relic of Progenitus, +1 Matter Reshaper
-1 Inquisition of Kozilek, -1 Relic of Progenitus, +2 Blessed Alliance (meta looks aggro heavy)
-1 Relic of Progenitus, -1 Thoughtseize, -1 Go for the Throat, +3 Tidehollow Sculler (more hand ripping into processing, plus it eats bolts)
Thanks in advance!