I noticed that i keep getting flooded with lands on this deck. what if we reduced the nbr of lands to 22 instead of 24?
You can certainly try it. I didn't have many problems flooding out at Dallas but that doesn't mean the deck isn't prone to it. I also welcomed the extra lands if it was a displacer matchup. I would be cautious in messing with the lands to reduce the odds of you casting a turn two thought-knot and a turn three smasher. This becomes problematic if you decide to add lands that come into play tapped like man lands.
I was thinking of a 1 off man-land. Cos i've encountered mana flooding too often, it would be good if we could have a mana sink. Sea-gate wreckage or Mirrorpool also comes to mind.
sea gate works for grindy late game match ups, but you definitely don't want to be running tapped lands. this deck is already slow when we don't draw the temples/dorks, adding tapped lands cripple us.
At the end of Game 5 they talk about the flooding problem, which is very true, you find yourself too many time durdling and aplying no pressure whatsoever, although Grixis is very removal-heavy deck, specially with Snapcaster Mage/Kommand Engine which is A+ in grind mode.
What i really want to point out is that Ross didnt play at its best, and didnt Sb pretty well in my opinion.
We should be working towards the "Flood Problem", but the deck isnt as straightforward as it seems, specially against Control where you really dont race, because their late game isnt that good against Drowner/Smasher.
Right now, im looking at Sea Gate Wreckage, Gavony Township, Manlands(Colonnade,Falls,Wildwood), Planeswalkers.
To alleviate flooding problems I cut 1 land and I am also running Westvale Abbey. It makes a "bitterblossom" effect at EOT which keeps pressure on the board and lets you pay 1 life to kill Snapcasters or chump other big creatures. Occasionally you get 5 creatures and they have very few outs (unless they run Cryptic which not many lists do).
yah I've also tested many flex lands. tapped lands are definitely to slow for this deck. Horizon canopy has been pretty good for me if you wanted to try that. being able to draw a card and filter your deck is huge I think. also being able to turn 1 birds/noble/path/ancient is awesome
I've been playing a vial-less allies deck for a few months now and found this list to be just as fast with more consistency. Most of my playtesting have been against burn but have found I mulligan alot less which I think hurt vial in this deck as much as the top deck draws. Beastcaller and Bushwacker add so much speed that I think more than makes up for the loss of vial. In my meta you will always see burn, jund, infect, and control so my side is geared more towards that. Let me know what you think.
Beastcaller Savant - less powerful than harabaz druid but way more versatile and better in multiples. the 1 power and haste adds so much playablilty in this deck. the mana you produce can only cast creatures but with only 8 spells not to much of a drawback.
Reckless Bushwhacker - a pseudo battleslinger this enables very fast turn 3-4 wins. I moved firemantle mage to the side to have more speed in the main. obviously less powerful than slinger but makes up for it with a one time haste and pump that is so powerful with a turn 3 hada/envoy + bushwacker combo. Yes hes just a 2/1 envoy off a collected company, but the amount of synergy he has with all our other allies and the speed he provides more than makes up for that drawback.
Horizon Canopy - tested many flex spot lands and found canopy to be the best, mutavault coming in second for me. color fixing plus being and to dig a card deeper in a deck where almost every draw and ally trigger can be game winning is huge. probably going to add a second in place of stomping grounds.
I've been playing this deck for a long time in multiple incarnations. Originally, it was a Boros list from pretty much right after original Zendikar block. Then, last fall, I splashed green when I saw the devastation wrought by a list in some sort of big tournament. I heard about it on Brainstorm Brewery, and quickly tore apart my old brew to update it. Now, after tons of casual testing, I have a list I'm pretty happy with.
This list resulted from changes made after a playtest against Jund, which I consider the worst match I could have against a fair deck. I p-worded a Top 8 list from the Fate Reforged Whatcha-Call'er, and it trounced me with removal. In spite of this near shutdown, I was able to power through twelve games. My record was 3-3 on the draw and 3-3 on the play. Eerie, right?
This deck can pop off at any time. I ran it through the Jund meat grinder and watched 6-8 creatures hit the graveyard each game. Regardless, I was forcing 1-for-1's and even maintaining board presence. CoCo is some serious gas for this engine. One of my favorite situations from playtesting involved me staring at an empty board, resolving a CoCo into two Akoum Battlesingers, and swinging that turn for 10 damage. Green splash is further justified when we have Hardened Scales enabling our 16 allies with +1/+1 counter abilities. Scales would also boost Mauler.
A few changes have been made from my original Naya list. Twinflame, as adorable as it is, has been replaced by bolt. The Taurean Mauler got boarded out in favor of Faithless Looting so that I can dig deep for CoCo.
I can admit that the land base is borderline tragic. As of now the goal is to frantically fetch out lands early to leave room for better draws and better showings from CoCo. This might be the part of the deck I need most help with.
I'm going to test this deck tonight at a local modern tournament. I'll try to keep a good record for reporting purposes. The most extreme edits I can imagine would be cutting Hardened Scales and Oran-Rief Survivalist for better (and possibly newer) allies or better green-ish effects like Atarka's Command.
nice list. I was always intrigued with lightning bolt in this deck, I have found path to be better but since you run both how do you find it?
also what are your advice and opinions on the jund match since you seemed to play a bit? only played a few and got crushed myself. tried some sideboard cards like chameleon colossus and return to ranks but in the very limited testing it wasn't super great for me
been playing this deck a while now. gonna post a list after work I plan to play at some modern side events at the upcoming grand prix Toronto near me.
I probably wouldn't cut the vials. running less creatures with not alot of ways putting them on board (vial/coco) not only will you be behind on board state but your creatures will be weaker (less triggers) using mana on burn.
but on the other hand cutting the 4 creatures might make vial kind of awkward?
sea gate works for grindy late game match ups, but you definitely don't want to be running tapped lands. this deck is already slow when we don't draw the temples/dorks, adding tapped lands cripple us.
yah I've also tested many flex lands. tapped lands are definitely to slow for this deck. Horizon canopy has been pretty good for me if you wanted to try that. being able to draw a card and filter your deck is huge I think. also being able to turn 1 birds/noble/path/ancient is awesome
I've been playing a vial-less allies deck for a few months now and found this list to be just as fast with more consistency. Most of my playtesting have been against burn but have found I mulligan alot less which I think hurt vial in this deck as much as the top deck draws. Beastcaller and Bushwacker add so much speed that I think more than makes up for the loss of vial. In my meta you will always see burn, jund, infect, and control so my side is geared more towards that. Let me know what you think.
4 Expedition Envoy
4 Hada Freeblade
4 Kazundu Blademaster
4 Kabira Evangel
4 Oran-Rief Survivalist
3 Beastcaller Savant
1 Harabaz Druid
2 Lantern Scout
4 Akoum Battlesinger
2 Reckless Bushwhacker
Spells [8]
4 Path to Exile
4 Collected Company
4 Windswept Heath
1 Arid Mesa
1 Temple Garden
1 Stomping Grounds
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Ally Encampment
4 Cavern of Souls
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Plains
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Wear and Tear
2 Rest in Peace
2 Return to the Ranks
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Choke
2 Ondu Cleric
2 Firemantle Mage
2 Chameleon Colossus
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Beastcaller Savant - less powerful than harabaz druid but way more versatile and better in multiples. the 1 power and haste adds so much playablilty in this deck. the mana you produce can only cast creatures but with only 8 spells not to much of a drawback.
Reckless Bushwhacker - a pseudo battleslinger this enables very fast turn 3-4 wins. I moved firemantle mage to the side to have more speed in the main. obviously less powerful than slinger but makes up for it with a one time haste and pump that is so powerful with a turn 3 hada/envoy + bushwacker combo. Yes hes just a 2/1 envoy off a collected company, but the amount of synergy he has with all our other allies and the speed he provides more than makes up for that drawback.
Horizon Canopy - tested many flex spot lands and found canopy to be the best, mutavault coming in second for me. color fixing plus being and to dig a card deeper in a deck where almost every draw and ally trigger can be game winning is huge. probably going to add a second in place of stomping grounds.
nice list. I was always intrigued with lightning bolt in this deck, I have found path to be better but since you run both how do you find it?
also what are your advice and opinions on the jund match since you seemed to play a bit? only played a few and got crushed myself. tried some sideboard cards like chameleon colossus and return to ranks but in the very limited testing it wasn't super great for me
I probably wouldn't cut the vials. running less creatures with not alot of ways putting them on board (vial/coco) not only will you be behind on board state but your creatures will be weaker (less triggers) using mana on burn.
but on the other hand cutting the 4 creatures might make vial kind of awkward?
I have other decks so I can probably wait until standard rotates but would would it be worth it?