Manabase question! Is there any consensus regarding the distribution of red and black sources in our deck? In my tarnless 19 lander list I'm running the following:
In my opinion, the question comes down to which lands are best openers (Blood Crypt is often unkeepable if it is the single land in our hand, but then again fixes our colors when needed) and how to operate our manabase when we don't see our fastlands (hence my hesitation in cutting the 2nd Steam Vents). I'll probably try the 2 Canals + 1 Shores split, even though I can hardly complain of the 3 UR fastlands as my fetchlands are quite black-centric.
I've got most of the pieces for Grixis Delver except for Snappy, which I plan to buy when it gets reprinted on MM2017. In the meantime, my local magic community is actually ok with a couple of proxies and I will certainly try it in order to get some practice with the full deck. However, it would also be nice to go to a sanctioned event every once in a while in Grixis colors. Is it possible to convert Grixis Delver into a more tempo-oriented deck with Swiftspears? The Primer talks about her as a budget option but I couldn't find a decklist. Note that I've been collecting UR staples for a while, so I have most of the stuff ranging from Forked Bolt to Twisted Image, Electrolyze or Grim Lavamancer.
This is my current decklist, usually proxying Swiftspears as Snappys. Any comments are much appreciated! Manabase, spell choices, sideboard, you name it. I'm personally not too sold on Fulminator Mages. I'm a divided Grixis Delver player, as I love my Young Ps and also love my counterspells. Overall, I feel like this list is somewhere in between Jones and Overturf.
I had no luck finding Tamada's footage on Worlds. Not sure if he ever got on camera given that he piloted the deck to a 1-3 finish in Modern rounds. Mansfield's Much Abrew About Nothing is what got my attention in the first place, and it is definitely a good watch. It is very unfortunate that he didn't get paired with a lot of problematic decks. I'm sure it would be awesome to listen to his thought process on sideboarding and sequencing.
I definitely feel that the deck has real tools and real threats. Just like UR delver decks, any new tempo tool could do it to push the deck to higher tiers. In my testing, though, I missed more counter spells than just the 3 Remands. Maybe Boros Charm could fix half our problems, and the cool part of it is that every mode is useful to the deck. I just don't know how to properly test these innovations as each cantrip that I take out will eventually make it harder to flip TiTi and turn on Ascension. There is a clear tradeoff between having answers and goldfishing.
A primer to discuss these options is definitely welcome, specially as this deck is getting more attention.
I've been playtesting this deck on xmage to see if its worth it to buy into it on paper. It is definitely fun, but I've been having some problems with certain matchups. Abrupt Decays are atrocious, resolved Karn Liberated is sad and too much control in the form of counter spells could time walk us enough to lose. How can we solve those issues? What are your impressions on BGx, GR Tron, Grixis Delver and other similar matchups?
[edit] After losing hard for GR Tron again, I feel like relying on just 8 threats is insane. Sure, there is the possibility of nut draws and clean kills, but I feel like assembling more threats should be the way to go. Maybe dumping TiTi for pyros and mentors. I'm not even sure if pyromancer ascension is well positioned with the sheer amount of graveyard hate everywhere.
Now that UR fastlands have been spoiled, what are your impressions on this alternative to the manabase? Simply swap UB fastlands for the UR ones? Does this new addition help budget players who are trying to make up for their lack of Scalding Tarns?
How do fastlands change our manabase, though? Do we cut shocks for fastlands? If so, how many? My first impression is that -2 shocks for +2 fastlands seems correct on BW Eldrazi & Taxes, but then again last thing this deck wants is to drop a tapped 5th land with Smasher in hand. Other usual suspects are the shambling vents or the occasional singleton Fetid Heath. Did anyone test a fastland scenario?
Lurker here, I wanted to know how's storm looking lately in a number of aspects.
First, I've seen lists named URw Pyromancer (after Pyromancer Ascension) with some aspects of traditional UR storms + Thing in the Ice, bolts and helixes mainboard. An example would be this list on mtg top8 http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=13146&d=276970&f=MO. Is this version of storm covered in this forum? Also, what is the impression on this list against traditional UR lists? What are the metagame changes to justify this new version?
For a semi-budget UR player, is UR Storm even viable with, say, 4 Ux fetches + 4 shocks and some number of checks and painlands? What are the recommendations regarding lands when scalding tarn is absurdly expensive? I don't mind buying the other stuff, though.
As an Eldrazi & Taxes player, I gotta say 3 Thoughtseizes are awesome in the sideboard. I usually side out Wasteland Stranglers and side in 3 seizes and 1 extra Smasher, counting up to 3, versus control decks. The sheer hand disruption you'll have with seizes, scullers and TKS is usually good enough to win.
What is the situation of your Dredge matchup? Lost to one today and something feels out of place. Are Flickerwisps overpriced Narcomoebas without a Vial on 3 in play? I'm also considering if it is worth it to keep Wasteland Stranglers post sideboard. These 2 creatures seem to be interesting tempo-wise, but I'm unsure if that is the type of out that I should be playing to. Do we even keep vials just for mana cheating's sake?
I think you should add a 3rd Rest in Peace because there are so many graveyard shenanigans in the format. I'm also curious in which matchups you bring in Auriok Champion, because without Splinter Twin in the format anymore, the only relevant matchup for that card is Abzan combo, and you might as well be running the Rest in Peace instead.
My favorite tools for hurting Dredge are Rest in Peace and Surgical Extraction, both of which do decent work in other matchups. Occasionally cards like Ghostly Prison can be good too, depending on your metagame.
Yeah, I've been very inclined to drop the 3rd Stony Silence for a 3rd Rest in Peace. Affinity won't fight for a Stony Silence in play, as their deck's mana shuts down except for Glimmervoid. The Affinity players are also bringing other decks to the store and it feels more important to hate GY with the added bonus of improving the Melira CoCo matchup, with at least 3 decks at my local store.
I pack Auriok Champions primarily vs Burn, as lifegain and a pro-color blocker are super relevant. For the other matchups, it is there usually for the free blocks. GBx decks have a thought time removing it, Grixis hate their Tasigurs and Anglers being blocked by a 1/1 and even against Dredge it is a decent option to present blockers against Bloodghasts and Prized Amalgams. The "package" of 2 Auriok Champion + 2 Mirran Crusader is very versatile. I also pack Sorin, Solemn Visitor MB due to the hordes of Naya Zoo/Burn at the store. I really don't like the idea of cutting Champions out of respect for those matchups.
What I'm most concerned, though, is with the cards we should side out against Dredge. What is your sideboard plan, @CharonsObol?
What is the situation of your Dredge matchup? Lost to one today and something feels out of place. Are Flickerwisps overpriced Narcomoebas without a Vial on 3 in play? I'm also considering if it is worth it to keep Wasteland Stranglers post sideboard. These 2 creatures seem to be interesting tempo-wise, but I'm unsure if that is the type of out that I should be playing to. Do we even keep vials just for mana cheating's sake?
Quick question for any BW DnT variation: is there any consensus regarding the correct number of Shambling Vents in our manabase? I'm currently working with 2 and it feels ok. I don't often see it but at least I also don't get to draw multiples that would hiccup my curve. what's the impression on running 3 of those fellas?
I'm at 2. Multiples not only hurt your curve-out, they're also dead draws in the late game, because it's not often you'll have the right lands to activate two at once. There's also the nightmare scenario of an opener with vial but no untapped lands. I mostly play them because I need the fixing and there's no good options for untapped duals besides Shrines and Caves. Isolated Chapel doesn't work very well since the deck plays so few basics.
If you're on the eldrazi plan, play a basic plains instead of the 3rd vents, or if you want the fixing badly, a fetchland is fine(getting hurt by your own arbiter will almost never come up).
A couple comments in these regards:
Mana sinks (like manlands) are the opposite of a dead draw in late game. The fact that you are not likely able to activate both doesn't mean anything, sometimes it gains you life by helping you not having to ping you for 1 with a caves for one of the colors for the other manland activation. Plus instantly replaces the other vent if it gets bolted/killed.
The chances of opening with multiple vents is the reason you don't want to play more than 2, the nightmare is real and hurts a lot. It also sucks even if you don't open with vial, as you don't have a T2 play due to ETB tapped.
The reason to play them is not just the fixing, in any case Fetid Heath is great at fixing mana and provides colorless for Sea Gate Wreckage and eldrazi creatures/abilities (if you play them). Fetchlands are out of the question, and they will hurt you. Isolated chapel wouldn't be that bad if the deck played something like 8/10 basics + shocks, as Godless Shrine also counts as Swamp/Plains for chapel. I would still play vent over chapel every day, it helps against burn and control/midrange.
Just to contribute with the discussion on manafixing, I'm currently working with Eldrazi and Taxes playing 2 Shambling Vents and a singleton Fetid Heath. There are times in which I'm forced to mulligan due to drawing just Fetid Heath and Ghost Quarter, but it is way more common for the Heath to show up just when I would be forced to shock myself for a Godless Shrine or add a Caves of Koilos to generate a second color. It also happened to be my only colourless source in a few games. I highly recommend testing it as a one-of. 2 or more copies is certainly not recommended. [rant]I wish Wizards could print the full cycle of fastlands, though. They didn't even bother to print the sub-optimal enemy-colored battle lands and shadow lands either.[/rant]
Quick question for any BW DnT variation: is there any consensus regarding the correct number of Shambling Vents in our manabase? I'm currently working with 2 and it feels ok. I don't often see it but at least I also don't get to draw multiples that would hiccup my curve. what's the impression on running 3 of those fellas?
Quick LGS tournament report. Solid 3-1 finally breaching the 2-2 standings I had for a couple of tournaments.
2-1 vs. Melira Combo:
Game 1 my opponent has no luck in finding the combo pieces, as light disruption in the form of Tidehollow Sculler gets in the way. Post sideboard in comes 2 Rest in Peace and 2 Zealous Persecution out 2 Smashers, the Solemn Sorin and a random dude. Yet again I forget that as I make my curve ridiculously lower I could afford boarding out a land. Game 2 we're on regular attrition and disruption business as he goes for double Collected Company fuelled by an Eternal Witness in the first pick. He finds 2 combo pieces and draws Viscera Seer from the top. Ouch. Game 3 I control him once again. I feel like this matchup is more dependent on my opponent's luck than any other factor. It really doesn't matter striping one card of his hand when he presents Witness, Company and Chord to my face. Picking one is not enough.
2-1 vs. Living End:
Yep, Living End. Game 1 I try to strip my opponent's hand with no luck. He had a healthy amount of lands and cycling creatures only. He eventually finds his cascade spell and Living End on my face. I looked closely as he cascaded to notice he was also packing Scapeshift as an alt-win con. Game 2 I bring in My 3rd Smasher, 3 Thoughtseizes and 2 Rest in Peace. Out goes my 4 Wasteland Stranglers, Solemn Sorin and probably a singleton Flickerwisp or a Vial. The combination of multiple Scullers and Thoughtseizes secured the following games.
2-0 vs. Affinity:
Hell of a matchup that I always respect. The thing is that if my opponent doesn't dump his hand onto the battlefield turn 1 with an interesting clock, say Signal Pest boosting multiple flyers or a Cranial Plating here and there, Eldrazi & Taxes might have a shot at stabilizing for the win. This is exactly what happened game 1 and 2. Flickerwisp was an all-star as usual, Thought-Knot Seer was staring at the Etched Champion and even attacked with ease, and Displacer was at least very (and I mean VERY) annoying to the opponent, often forcing a Galvanic Blast. Sideboarding was easy, just bring in 3 Stony Silence and 2 Zealous Persecution (ridiculously good in this matchup). Out goes 2 Smashers, a Vial, an Arbiter and a Sculler.
0-2 vs. Melira Combo:
Game 1 I disrupt a Chord out of his hand via Sculler with very little impact. He just finds another one, pulls Qasali Pridemage and takes it back, eventually assembling the combo. Game 2 I had the same sideboard plan, and I see 7 cards with enough land, rest in peace, a wasteland strangler and a TKS. It was definitely good enough, but my draws were very poor and consisted mostly of lands. My opponent had a single land and multiple mana dorks, eventually going for collected company and just flooding the board with creatures. I lost to the beatdown plan. This made me think if I should bring in Mirran Crusader to the match. TBH I don't know what I should side out to make room for it, but it feels like worth trying. Another option is bringing additional hand disruption with Thoughtseize. What is your regular sideboard plan for this deck? There are at least 3 people piloting this deck at the store and it also feels like I have the necessary tools to fight Melira Combo, but I can hardly get there.
EDIT: upon reflection, I'm starting to think that old Thalia is underperforming in this matchup. Taxing a single mana isn't a big deal for a deck full of mana dorks and small creatures to convoke with. Multiple cats, thought, is another thing altogether. Perhaps siding out Thalias and in Thoughtseizes could do the trick?
On another note, how's New Thalia looking in a regular BW Eldrazi & Taxes list? Mainboard or sideboard material?
Thanks for the inputs! I just came back from 4 rounds of Legacy at my LGS and I finished 2-1-1. Not bad at all.
I have some comments and questions. Overall, I feel like I prefer a permanent discard outlet to keep on dredging on my regular draw steps, and having 4 Putrid Imps and 2 Tireless Tribes seem like the way to go. The looting effect of Careful Study and Faithless Looting feels especially beneficial when I already have something on my graveyard, and spending those cards only to discard dredgers feels like using limited resources very frivolously. Of course, having 8 draw spells instead of 6 might just fix this impression, but truth is after the opening hand we will hardly draw anything new if everything is going according to plan.
When I went to GP São Paulo the other week an experienced Dredge player recommended running only 3 copies of Breakthrough and a single Flame-Kin Zealot along with the Flayer. His reasoning was that I really only needed one copy of Breakthrough to dredge through (no pun intended), and two copies in hand would be worthless anyway as Breakthroughs for X=0 are much more common than X=1 or 2.
I understand there are many different styles of deckbuilding in Dredge and I'm open to hear and test your comments and recommendations. What do you guys think?
Manabase question! Is there any consensus regarding the distribution of red and black sources in our deck? In my tarnless 19 lander list I'm running the following:
4 Polluted Delta
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Spirebluff Canal
2 Steam Vents
1 Watery Grave
1 Blood Crypt
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
There are many interesting options for subtle change, among them: -1 Blood Crypt for the 2nd Watery Grave, -1 Steam Vents for the 2nd Watery Grave, -1 Spirebluff Canal for a singleton Darkslick Shores.
In my opinion, the question comes down to which lands are best openers (Blood Crypt is often unkeepable if it is the single land in our hand, but then again fixes our colors when needed) and how to operate our manabase when we don't see our fastlands (hence my hesitation in cutting the 2nd Steam Vents). I'll probably try the 2 Canals + 1 Shores split, even though I can hardly complain of the 3 UR fastlands as my fetchlands are quite black-centric.
Any thoughts?
I've got most of the pieces for Grixis Delver except for Snappy, which I plan to buy when it gets reprinted on MM2017. In the meantime, my local magic community is actually ok with a couple of proxies and I will certainly try it in order to get some practice with the full deck. However, it would also be nice to go to a sanctioned event every once in a while in Grixis colors. Is it possible to convert Grixis Delver into a more tempo-oriented deck with Swiftspears? The Primer talks about her as a budget option but I couldn't find a decklist. Note that I've been collecting UR staples for a while, so I have most of the stuff ranging from Forked Bolt to Twisted Image, Electrolyze or Grim Lavamancer.
This is my current decklist, usually proxying Swiftspears as Snappys. Any comments are much appreciated! Manabase, spell choices, sideboard, you name it. I'm personally not too sold on Fulminator Mages. I'm a divided Grixis Delver player, as I love my Young Ps and also love my counterspells. Overall, I feel like this list is somewhere in between Jones and Overturf.
4 Polluted Delta
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Steam Vents
1 Watery Grave
1 Blood Crypt
3 Spirebluff Canal
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
Creatures (14)
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Young Pyromancer
3 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Serum Visions
4 Thought Scour
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Kolaghan's Command
3 Terminate
1 Dreadbore
3 Mana Leak
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
2 Remand
2 Dispel
2 Countersquall
2 Magma Spray
1 Dreadbore
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Extirpate
1 Rakdos Charm
3 Fulminator Mage
I definitely feel that the deck has real tools and real threats. Just like UR delver decks, any new tempo tool could do it to push the deck to higher tiers. In my testing, though, I missed more counter spells than just the 3 Remands. Maybe Boros Charm could fix half our problems, and the cool part of it is that every mode is useful to the deck. I just don't know how to properly test these innovations as each cantrip that I take out will eventually make it harder to flip TiTi and turn on Ascension. There is a clear tradeoff between having answers and goldfishing.
A primer to discuss these options is definitely welcome, specially as this deck is getting more attention.
I've been playtesting this deck on xmage to see if its worth it to buy into it on paper. It is definitely fun, but I've been having some problems with certain matchups. Abrupt Decays are atrocious, resolved Karn Liberated is sad and too much control in the form of counter spells could time walk us enough to lose. How can we solve those issues? What are your impressions on BGx, GR Tron, Grixis Delver and other similar matchups?
[edit] After losing hard for GR Tron again, I feel like relying on just 8 threats is insane. Sure, there is the possibility of nut draws and clean kills, but I feel like assembling more threats should be the way to go. Maybe dumping TiTi for pyros and mentors. I'm not even sure if pyromancer ascension is well positioned with the sheer amount of graveyard hate everywhere.
Lurker here, I wanted to know how's storm looking lately in a number of aspects.
First, I've seen lists named URw Pyromancer (after Pyromancer Ascension) with some aspects of traditional UR storms + Thing in the Ice, bolts and helixes mainboard. An example would be this list on mtg top8 http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=13146&d=276970&f=MO. Is this version of storm covered in this forum? Also, what is the impression on this list against traditional UR lists? What are the metagame changes to justify this new version?
For a semi-budget UR player, is UR Storm even viable with, say, 4 Ux fetches + 4 shocks and some number of checks and painlands? What are the recommendations regarding lands when scalding tarn is absurdly expensive? I don't mind buying the other stuff, though.
I appreciate any thoughtful comments!
As an Eldrazi & Taxes player, I gotta say 3 Thoughtseizes are awesome in the sideboard. I usually side out Wasteland Stranglers and side in 3 seizes and 1 extra Smasher, counting up to 3, versus control decks. The sheer hand disruption you'll have with seizes, scullers and TKS is usually good enough to win.
Yeah, I've been very inclined to drop the 3rd Stony Silence for a 3rd Rest in Peace. Affinity won't fight for a Stony Silence in play, as their deck's mana shuts down except for Glimmervoid. The Affinity players are also bringing other decks to the store and it feels more important to hate GY with the added bonus of improving the Melira CoCo matchup, with at least 3 decks at my local store.
I pack Auriok Champions primarily vs Burn, as lifegain and a pro-color blocker are super relevant. For the other matchups, it is there usually for the free blocks. GBx decks have a thought time removing it, Grixis hate their Tasigurs and Anglers being blocked by a 1/1 and even against Dredge it is a decent option to present blockers against Bloodghasts and Prized Amalgams. The "package" of 2 Auriok Champion + 2 Mirran Crusader is very versatile. I also pack Sorin, Solemn Visitor MB due to the hordes of Naya Zoo/Burn at the store. I really don't like the idea of cutting Champions out of respect for those matchups.
What I'm most concerned, though, is with the cards we should side out against Dredge. What is your sideboard plan, @CharonsObol?
What is the situation of your Dredge matchup? Lost to one today and something feels out of place. Are Flickerwisps overpriced Narcomoebas without a Vial on 3 in play? I'm also considering if it is worth it to keep Wasteland Stranglers post sideboard. These 2 creatures seem to be interesting tempo-wise, but I'm unsure if that is the type of out that I should be playing to. Do we even keep vials just for mana cheating's sake?
As for what I'm bringing from my sideboard, the no-brainers are 2 Rest in Peace, 2 Auriok Champion, and 2 Mirran Crusader. I'm leaning towards my 2 Zealous Persecutions just because of the amount of x/1 creatures they've got. Also bringing a 3rd Reality Smasher just for the huge body can be a thing. Their Conflagrates are brutal against our bears.
Any thoughts?
Just to contribute with the discussion on manafixing, I'm currently working with Eldrazi and Taxes playing 2 Shambling Vents and a singleton Fetid Heath. There are times in which I'm forced to mulligan due to drawing just Fetid Heath and Ghost Quarter, but it is way more common for the Heath to show up just when I would be forced to shock myself for a Godless Shrine or add a Caves of Koilos to generate a second color. It also happened to be my only colourless source in a few games. I highly recommend testing it as a one-of. 2 or more copies is certainly not recommended. [rant]I wish Wizards could print the full cycle of fastlands, though. They didn't even bother to print the sub-optimal enemy-colored battle lands and shadow lands either.[/rant]
Quick LGS tournament report. Solid 3-1 finally breaching the 2-2 standings I had for a couple of tournaments.
2-1 vs. Melira Combo:
Game 1 my opponent has no luck in finding the combo pieces, as light disruption in the form of Tidehollow Sculler gets in the way. Post sideboard in comes 2 Rest in Peace and 2 Zealous Persecution out 2 Smashers, the Solemn Sorin and a random dude. Yet again I forget that as I make my curve ridiculously lower I could afford boarding out a land. Game 2 we're on regular attrition and disruption business as he goes for double Collected Company fuelled by an Eternal Witness in the first pick. He finds 2 combo pieces and draws Viscera Seer from the top. Ouch. Game 3 I control him once again. I feel like this matchup is more dependent on my opponent's luck than any other factor. It really doesn't matter striping one card of his hand when he presents Witness, Company and Chord to my face. Picking one is not enough.
2-1 vs. Living End:
Yep, Living End. Game 1 I try to strip my opponent's hand with no luck. He had a healthy amount of lands and cycling creatures only. He eventually finds his cascade spell and Living End on my face. I looked closely as he cascaded to notice he was also packing Scapeshift as an alt-win con. Game 2 I bring in My 3rd Smasher, 3 Thoughtseizes and 2 Rest in Peace. Out goes my 4 Wasteland Stranglers, Solemn Sorin and probably a singleton Flickerwisp or a Vial. The combination of multiple Scullers and Thoughtseizes secured the following games.
2-0 vs. Affinity:
Hell of a matchup that I always respect. The thing is that if my opponent doesn't dump his hand onto the battlefield turn 1 with an interesting clock, say Signal Pest boosting multiple flyers or a Cranial Plating here and there, Eldrazi & Taxes might have a shot at stabilizing for the win. This is exactly what happened game 1 and 2. Flickerwisp was an all-star as usual, Thought-Knot Seer was staring at the Etched Champion and even attacked with ease, and Displacer was at least very (and I mean VERY) annoying to the opponent, often forcing a Galvanic Blast. Sideboarding was easy, just bring in 3 Stony Silence and 2 Zealous Persecution (ridiculously good in this matchup). Out goes 2 Smashers, a Vial, an Arbiter and a Sculler.
0-2 vs. Melira Combo:
Game 1 I disrupt a Chord out of his hand via Sculler with very little impact. He just finds another one, pulls Qasali Pridemage and takes it back, eventually assembling the combo. Game 2 I had the same sideboard plan, and I see 7 cards with enough land, rest in peace, a wasteland strangler and a TKS. It was definitely good enough, but my draws were very poor and consisted mostly of lands. My opponent had a single land and multiple mana dorks, eventually going for collected company and just flooding the board with creatures. I lost to the beatdown plan. This made me think if I should bring in Mirran Crusader to the match. TBH I don't know what I should side out to make room for it, but it feels like worth trying. Another option is bringing additional hand disruption with Thoughtseize. What is your regular sideboard plan for this deck? There are at least 3 people piloting this deck at the store and it also feels like I have the necessary tools to fight Melira Combo, but I can hardly get there.
EDIT: upon reflection, I'm starting to think that old Thalia is underperforming in this matchup. Taxing a single mana isn't a big deal for a deck full of mana dorks and small creatures to convoke with. Multiple cats, thought, is another thing altogether. Perhaps siding out Thalias and in Thoughtseizes could do the trick?
On another note, how's New Thalia looking in a regular BW Eldrazi & Taxes list? Mainboard or sideboard material?
Thanks for the inputs! I just came back from 4 rounds of Legacy at my LGS and I finished 2-1-1. Not bad at all.
I have some comments and questions. Overall, I feel like I prefer a permanent discard outlet to keep on dredging on my regular draw steps, and having 4 Putrid Imps and 2 Tireless Tribes seem like the way to go. The looting effect of Careful Study and Faithless Looting feels especially beneficial when I already have something on my graveyard, and spending those cards only to discard dredgers feels like using limited resources very frivolously. Of course, having 8 draw spells instead of 6 might just fix this impression, but truth is after the opening hand we will hardly draw anything new if everything is going according to plan.
I also noticed I may want a third copy of Dread Return to "combo" Flayer of the Hatebound with a big Golgari Grave-Troll. It is an interesting card to mainboard with Lands decks showing at the store every now and then. Should I just drop the Flame-Kin Zealot then?
When I went to GP São Paulo the other week an experienced Dredge player recommended running only 3 copies of Breakthrough and a single Flame-Kin Zealot along with the Flayer. His reasoning was that I really only needed one copy of Breakthrough to dredge through (no pun intended), and two copies in hand would be worthless anyway as Breakthroughs for X=0 are much more common than X=1 or 2.
I understand there are many different styles of deckbuilding in Dredge and I'm open to hear and test your comments and recommendations. What do you guys think?