Anything that gives Cube designers flexibility is a good thing IMHO. Something like Murderous Rider can safely slip into a spell slot but Bonecrusher Giant might be more likely to take a creature spot since it's that half that makes the card playable. There's no "right" answer but like I said, the flexibility is nice.
I was thinking that other red burn spells are much more similar to this card than any of the other 3 drop creatures whereas most of the burn spells are much more interchangable, sure some are better than others, but most of the decks playing burn spells usually jam as many as they can, whereas the creatures each play a more distinct role. Thus changing this out for a burn spell feels like a better fit for me since losing one burn spell for this won't be missed as much.
Actually I just realized that you can't target him with Tezzeret... Still, I don't think every card needs to be flashy, but cubes do need some good filler cards to help smooth decks out. I am thinking a good cut for this might be hangarback walker. I think the two cards might be pretty close in power level (obviously play different roles). Hangerback walker is good, but it slows games down quite a bit, and I think from a good design perspective, playing cards that let you win games are better than cards that are designed so you don't lose.
It's a Great ramp target, and can be played anywhere along the curve if your trying to make it to 6 mana, but area fealing pressure before you get there, slam this down as a 4/4 or 5/5 to buy yourself some time.
it gets passed the removal in the guild section, and can be played at 4 mana to get by most of the burn spells,
can be cast for 5 to either play around wildfire, or can slot right into that deck if needed.
In the artifact deck, it combos really nicely with Metalworker, and casting Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas to dig and find this is a pretty decent play considering you can play it the next turn and turn it into a 10/10
Did I mention that it has trample?
Not trying to oversell it or anything, because obviously, the card has weaknesses, still dies to a lot of removal and cards like abrade
But I think this should find a spot if a lot of cubes,
I have really liked Nightpack Ambusher as well. I am thinking about adding a little more flash to my green section in my next update as well which should make him a little better, + I am thinking of adding Mystic Snake back in, and Wildborn Preserver will be another way to make more of a flash deck work. Mystic Snake felt a little outclassed recently, but I think having the option of multiple different flash creatures makes it quite a bit more difficult to play around, along with a variety of other 4 mana green creatures I am thinking to run along with it include Thrun, the Last Troll, Questing Beast, Voracious Hydra, and Hexdrinker. The 4 drop spot will be difficult to play around. I know traditional wisdom has preached that green midrange can often not keep up in really powerful environments, but I am hoping all these new additions will make the deck more viable.
This not triggering on any instant / sorcery really hurts since a good chunk of blue's instants are counters.
Am i misreading what you are saying? this does trigger off all the counter spells in blue, but it also triggers off the creatures and enchantments as well.
I don't think this is necessarily a slam dunk, but I don't think the card is bad at all. I can see some mid-sized cubes that want to give the opposition deck a little more love running this.
I think this is a slam dunk for 360 cubes. I think this card power-wise is 6's compared to Hero's Downfall, except this card, is way more interesting and therefore if those are my choices, I would pick this in terms of cube design. I understand there will be times where a deck would rather have the consistency of heroes downfall, but this card seems like it will make games more fun, and there may be times the creature side of this is just as important as the life loss.
I am starting this thread, in hopes of having a good discussion about Green 4 drops. (seems fitting since Questing Beast was just spoiled.
I am hoping to start a thread discussion like this 1 per week and work my way through Various groups of cards. For example, one week it might be Green 4 drops, and next week it could be a guild discussion, a thread about white removal, or blue counterspells for example. The This or That thread while great, sometimes lacks the inability to focus on specific groups of cards that can be run together either in the same slot, and it is hard to go back and analyze information, but is a great way to get feedback from others about which cards to run. I want to have one of these per weeks to allow for more thoughtful analysis, and I don't want to burn myself out trying to create a new thread each week.
Basically this can be thought of as the Random Cube Card of the day but from a more big-picture perspective. I know there is a previous Green 4 drops thread found here, and if they need to be merged that is fine, but I wanted to create a new thread so this introduction post does not get lost in the middle of the thread. Not all colors have had threads to discuss the different sections of each color as well, and Ideally, it would be nice if this discussion is popular enough, we can get them grouped together in a subthread to make them easy to find later.
So onto This weeks discussion. What does everyone think of Green 4 drops these days.
My current section is testing out (reference size cube =411 right now) Nightpack Ambusher, Oracle of Mul Daya, Thrun, the last Troll, Voracious Hydra
With the soon to be printed Questing Beast, this may be the card that is needed to really turn Green 4 drops from a reactive support role into a more aggressive slant. Oracle can still play a role in the more Green ramp decks, and Voracious Hydra can fit into more midrange decks or large ramp decks, Thrun has always been good to do his resilient nature, and Running Night pack Ambusher and Questing Beast can give 2 different threats that can make the deck get some good damage in.
FYI, I think colorless will get a lot of voters back, I didn't vote on guilds due to time constraints / desire to think about 10 cards per guild felt to mentally taxing
I am looking forward to the new voting, but no rush
Clear upgrade over Vandal, but not sure I'm in need of further artifact removal in my unpowered beyond Abrade and Goblin Cratermaker which I believe are both better.
I think for unpowered cubes this may be true, but in powered cubes, being able to destroy an artifact on turn 1 can be a big deal whereas Goblin Cratermaker might not be able to until turn 3. The other thing to consider is that Goblin Cratermaker is good because you can play it as a body, and then destroy something when it's no longer doing much on board, or it makes your opponent use a removal spell on him before casting whatever they need to protect. Embereth Shieldbreaker can destroy something and then be a body, or just be a body, but once it's in play, it's going to be a 2/1. I think it warrents testing in powered cubes to see if being able to answer threats on turn 1 is important enough
I don't think Rankle replaces braids, The biggest problem with braid's decks isn't that she isn't good, but the lack of redundancy to the deck. Rankle I think is a card that can provide redundancy for that deck, but can also be useful in other decks as well. Testing will reveal if he is worth playing due to the number of decks that will want to run him.
I think this card is awsome, especially for powered cubes where you are more likely to be able to cast this on turn 1 to take out a mox and then cast the creature part from exile later on.
The real question is if your cube finds lots of ways to abuse etb effects and manic vandle is more abusable, but most tighter cubes have a smaller bounce theme, and larger cubes probably want to run both anyways
Not sure if this card is 100% confirmed (art is, but not the card).
Seems like an interesting card for sure for cube design and this would be awsome as a 2/1
Any artifact removal on a body is great, but the need to connect makes it seem like it won't do much very often, and creating multiple tokens for the alternative cost is cool, but I am not sure what kind of deck is going to want that ability.
his does have me excited that we might get 1 or 2 cards with a similar design that could be great for cube though
* are cards I feel pretty good about and are definite cuts
WHITE
Charming Prince >> Imposing Sovereign
Black
Rankle, Master of Pranks >> Skinrender, or Custodi Lich
* Murderous Rider >> Never // Return
Green
Questing Beast >> Oath of Druids
Gilded Goose >> Kodama's Reach
* Wildborn Preserver >> Yavimaya Elder
Once Upon a Time >> Channel
Red
* Embereth Shieldbreaker >> Manic Vandal
* Bonecrusher Giant >> Magma Jet
Colorless
Stonecoil Serpent
I was thinking that other red burn spells are much more similar to this card than any of the other 3 drop creatures whereas most of the burn spells are much more interchangable, sure some are better than others, but most of the decks playing burn spells usually jam as many as they can, whereas the creatures each play a more distinct role. Thus changing this out for a burn spell feels like a better fit for me since losing one burn spell for this won't be missed as much.
Card Seems like a great card. Red 3's are pretty packed, but I think I will upgrade Magmajet to this, I think the 4/3 creature is better than Scry 2,
Stonecoil Serpent X
Artifact Creature - Snake
Reach
Trample - bolded because I think I read this like 3 times before it clicked
Protection from Multicolor
Stonecoil Serpent enters the battlefield with X +1/+1 counters on it.
0/0
I think it looks decent at first glance, but might be a lot better than it actually looks.
Not trying to oversell it or anything, because obviously, the card has weaknesses, still dies to a lot of removal and cards like abrade
But I think this should find a spot if a lot of cubes,
Am i misreading what you are saying? this does trigger off all the counter spells in blue, but it also triggers off the creatures and enchantments as well.
I don't think this is necessarily a slam dunk, but I don't think the card is bad at all. I can see some mid-sized cubes that want to give the opposition deck a little more love running this.
I am starting this thread, in hopes of having a good discussion about Green 4 drops. (seems fitting since Questing Beast was just spoiled.
I am hoping to start a thread discussion like this 1 per week and work my way through Various groups of cards. For example, one week it might be Green 4 drops, and next week it could be a guild discussion, a thread about white removal, or blue counterspells for example. The This or That thread while great, sometimes lacks the inability to focus on specific groups of cards that can be run together either in the same slot, and it is hard to go back and analyze information, but is a great way to get feedback from others about which cards to run. I want to have one of these per weeks to allow for more thoughtful analysis, and I don't want to burn myself out trying to create a new thread each week.
Basically this can be thought of as the Random Cube Card of the day but from a more big-picture perspective. I know there is a previous Green 4 drops thread found here, and if they need to be merged that is fine, but I wanted to create a new thread so this introduction post does not get lost in the middle of the thread. Not all colors have had threads to discuss the different sections of each color as well, and Ideally, it would be nice if this discussion is popular enough, we can get them grouped together in a subthread to make them easy to find later.
So onto This weeks discussion. What does everyone think of Green 4 drops these days.
My current section is testing out (reference size cube =411 right now)
Nightpack Ambusher,
Oracle of Mul Daya,
Thrun, the last Troll,
Voracious Hydra
With the soon to be printed Questing Beast, this may be the card that is needed to really turn Green 4 drops from a reactive support role into a more aggressive slant. Oracle can still play a role in the more Green ramp decks, and Voracious Hydra can fit into more midrange decks or large ramp decks, Thrun has always been good to do his resilient nature, and Running Night pack Ambusher and Questing Beast can give 2 different threats that can make the deck get some good damage in.
I am looking forward to the new voting, but no rush
I think for unpowered cubes this may be true, but in powered cubes, being able to destroy an artifact on turn 1 can be a big deal whereas Goblin Cratermaker might not be able to until turn 3. The other thing to consider is that Goblin Cratermaker is good because you can play it as a body, and then destroy something when it's no longer doing much on board, or it makes your opponent use a removal spell on him before casting whatever they need to protect. Embereth Shieldbreaker can destroy something and then be a body, or just be a body, but once it's in play, it's going to be a 2/1. I think it warrents testing in powered cubes to see if being able to answer threats on turn 1 is important enough
The real question is if your cube finds lots of ways to abuse etb effects and manic vandle is more abusable, but most tighter cubes have a smaller bounce theme, and larger cubes probably want to run both anyways
Seems like an interesting card for sure for cube design and this would be awsome as a 2/1
Any artifact removal on a body is great, but the need to connect makes it seem like it won't do much very often, and creating multiple tokens for the alternative cost is cool, but I am not sure what kind of deck is going to want that ability.
his does have me excited that we might get 1 or 2 cards with a similar design that could be great for cube though