My post from a few pages back (includes some options against E-Tron)
My sideboard is built for my local meta. The range of decks I face varies massively, but I expect to face; E-Tron, Grixis Delver, Storm, DS Jund, Burn, Elves, Counters Company, Mono-Goblins, Merfolk, Bant Spirits, Affinity and some homebrews.
X1 sigarda, host of herons - useful against E-Tron, Delver and Jund
X1 linvala, keeper of silence - Useful against mirror, Elves, Affinity, E-Tron
X2 abrupt decay - Useful against most decks except E-Tron and storm
X2 path to exile - As above, except not very good against Bant Spirits
X1 kataki, war’s wage - Solely for Affinity hate
X1 qasali pridemage - Useful against Affinity and doubles up for removing blood moon etc
X1 kambal, consul of allocation - Useful against burn and storm
X1 thalia, heretic cathar - Useful against E-Tron, Goblins and Spirits
X2 sin collector - Useful against removal heavy decks
X1 orzhov pontiff - Useful against Affinity, elves and merfolk
X1 ethersworn canonist - easier to get than kambal versus storm
X1 anafenza, the foremost - additional graveyard hate and a good beater.
My current deck has both Druid and Finks combo and I’m not running any KotR. Using kitesail Freebooter, spellskite, renegade rallier and scavenging ooze as flex spots. Been happy with the results so far...
It depends on your build really. I’ve been playing this deck for some time (only paper) and don’t have catacombs. I haven’t had an issue at all with fetching lands. I run 4 windswept Heath and 3 marsh flats.... works fine for me as I don’t want to buy catacombs either.
My sideboard is built for my local meta. The range of decks I face varies massively, but I expect to face; E-Tron, Grixis Delver, Storm, DS Jund, Burn, Elves, Counters Company, Mono-Goblins, Merfolk, Bant Spirits, Affinity and some homebrews.
Although I’m not convinced by shaper’s sanctuary, has anyone else played around with a Bant(r) versio of the deck?
My main thinking is for utility of commune with nature to tutor up one of our 8 utility cards (paladin/Sram)) while keeping some number of swan song/silence.
Don’t get me wrong, tidehollow sculler is great, but why are people choosing this over kitesail Freebooter? The latter is less taxing on mana and has flying... this combined with gavony township can give a real boost if we can’t find our combo.
If I am missing something then I love to be enlightened
Conversely I’m playing renegade rallier and have found it exceptionally removal. With the amount of removal out there and wanting to focus primarily on the devoted Druid combo, being able to get a card back from the graveyard has proved invaluable for me. Playing fetches, canopies etc means that you often hit the revolt trigger.
Admittedly, it’s a pretty situational card and obviously isn’t going to be that effective if you can’t use the ETB trigger. However, a 3/2 beater that can be pumped with gavony township isn’t too bad....
Furthermore, I’m not playing KotR, nor am I playing another win-con (other than walking ballista) and so far haven’t found that I have needed it. I have more-often-than-not won using either the kitchen finks or devoted Druid combo.
Finally, as per my previous post I’m really liking the use of kitesail Freebooter. Give it a go
Saw this card and wondered whether it was worth considering. After some thought, I think not. It’s too expensive CMC, doesn’t help us combo quicker, doesn’t protect/return our utility pieces, nor does it disrupt our opponent. It’s a no-go for me.
I had felt that my sideboard was going to be pretty strong against Affinity, for those cards you listed. I don’t really want to drop Thalia, heretic cathar or sin collector as there are normally a few Tron, Bant Spirit and Goblin decks. As well as, Burn, Grixis Delver and Gifts Storm (we have a very varied pool of players and no knowing who will turn up each week). Think I maybe could've mulliganed more aggressively for one of my sideboard cards... will see how it fairs next time.
@Arkaedrian
@spankz
How has voice of resurgence worked out for you?
Also, is the one-of fauna shaman worth it? I’m considering testing it, but feel I would want something faster (no idea what).
Maybe my sideboard plan is too weak versus Affinity. Any suggestions what I would drop in order to fit stony silence in? I’ve often not opted for it as it is a whiff off CoCo, can’t be hit with Chord, nor Duskwatch, so haven’t got anyway to tutor for it. Best option seems another Kataki, war’s wage.
Also noted regarding the spelling of the cards. However, as far as I can tell I spelt two wrong(?!), which were genuine mistakes because tablets tend to autocorrect even though I typed them in right. Just for your sake, I will make sure they’re right from now on
round 1 vs Mono-white Prison (homebrew) 2-0
Game 1 found infinite life combo on turn 3 (hitting both finks and seer off a CoCo). Opponent wanted to keep playing, although I still have no idea what his out would be, so decided to scary Druid to the top of my library with a single Chord in hand. Proceeded to get infinite mana combo and play walking ballista.
Game 2 I used double Freebooter to steal two declaration in stone from my opponents hand and saw he had land and sphere of safety. Felt pretty confident I could play my Druid the following turn and eventually combo on turn 4.
Round 2 vs E-Tron 2-1
Game 1 I naturally drew into the infinite life combo on turn 4. My opponent was about to scoop, and it being FNM and the fact that he often misses triggers/abilities etc. I thought I would be nice and point out that he could still potentially win if he found an Ulamog, the ceaseless hunger - really wish I had let him scoop because this is how the game planned out. He had his turn and sulkily played an Ulamog, the invite gyre and stupidly I forgot that annihalator affects permanents and not just creatures. I scried Vizier to the top of my library but realised that I wouldn’t have enough lands or creatures to keep my Druid alive or play Chord/CoCo. Struggling to think of a way out of the situation my opponent drew a blightsteel coloussus.... with no board state nor lands I lost the following turn!!
Game 2 and 3 were great recompense. Found infinite mana combo on turn 3 in both games! Excellent games but lesson learnt.
Round 3 vs Bant spirits 2-1
Game 1 I managed to build a bit of a board state with several Freebooters, mana dorks, seer and a Druid. Opponent attacked and blocked with everything but the Druid and used seer to scry a Vizier to the top of my library and won on my turn.
Game 2 I couldn’t keep up with several Geists and 4/4 flying angels. Game 3 my opponent mulled to 5 and never recovered and I got the infinite mana combo on turn 4.
Round 4 vs affinity 0-2
Game 1 my opponent dumped his entire hand and swung for 12 the following turn. Nothing I could do. Game 2 was virtually the same as the first except a turn later.
Thoughts
- I can see there are some arguments for dropping the Finks combo. However, having played versions of the deck with KotR I feel that being able to jam either combo is just too good. Infinite life is not a guaranteed win (as my match against E-Tron proved), but it’s pretty difficult to overcome for a lot of decks. Or might be able to buy you enough time to find the other combo. I agree that KotR can be an absolute powerhouse and can help with filtering lands or finding Kessig. However, have a free chump blocker that can be utilised in a combo is too invaluable.
- Kitesail Freebooter was excellent. Not only having a flying creature that can get pumped by Township, but seeing an opponents hand is invaluable. I will be keeping them in the deck.
- I know my Affinity opponent had some absolute nut-draws, but I really felt I couldn’t race him. Anyone got any experience?
Good to hear the positive results. Ironically on the last page of this thread I stated I would be considering testing kitesail Freebooter.... good to hear positive feedback so this has convinced me to give it a go!
I’ve been giving the decklist some thought and I am assuming that Oscar ran 4 duskwatch recruiter because it is a great mana sink (most decks run 9-12 mana dorks) and this helps you tutor up either of the combos. The flip-side (no pun intended) is that he can flip and provide a reasonable beater. However in my games I’ve felt multiples have been that useful and therefore thinking of making the following changes;
Dark Confidant
Admittedly this is a bit more taxing on the manabase and I would probably need to add a basic swamp(?), but this cards is a prime target for removal. Which may take the heat off of our combo creatures. Plus it gives card advantage and given we are playing an infinite life combo the life-loss hopefully won’t be that significant. However, this doesn’t allow us to look at three cards and potentially draw a win, nor does it provide a good beater unless pumped by gavony township.
Kitesail Freebooter
I’ve been testing a 4C human build that runs a playset of this guy. Having cheap hand disruption has been awesome and unlike tidehollow sculler the mana is more achievable. The added bonus is that this creature has flying, so a few Townships boosts or Exalted triggers gives you a reasonable attacker. The other bonus is you get to look at your opponents hand, so can; snipe a removal spell, figure out what deck the opponent is playing and try and determine whether it is safe(ish) to drop a combo piece. If you manage to take an opponents combo piece they will have to remove it. The downsides are that it is a weak creature and won’t help us tutor the combo.
Voice of Resurgence
I know this card featured in historic lists, but with the amount of removal I face in my games I’m wondering whether it’s worth inclusion again. The mana makes it easy to cast and obviously can provide a hefty token. However it doesn’t really help our gameplan of comboing as early possible.
Anyone got any thoughts?
I’m most tempted to try kitesail Freebooter unless anyone can convince me otherwise.
Got a couple of queries about your sideboard:
1. Is a single Staticaster really worth it?
This means you need to add a land to your sideboard, which could possibly free up a better utility card? Could Orzhov Pontiff provide the solution? I appreciate that it only works when it enters the battlefield, but you already have the right colours maindeck and you're playing 4 CoCos. In theory, you could always drop Staticaster and Foundry and add 2 to the sideboard?
2. I see you've been a big advocate of arashin cleric, but with the amount of humans in the deck, would auriok champion be a better option? This way you're less likely to get caught out if an opponent has skullcrack, as you will likely be able to keep jamming creatures, rather than relying on a one-off.
3. Is Abzan falconer really worth it?
What do you bring it in against? It seems a bit to situational for my liking.... I know this scenario is a little far fetched, but say you get your Thalia thoughtseize and then sugical extraction'd? You have no way of giving creatures +1/+1. This makes Falconer pretty redundant.
4. What's your plan vs sweepers?
Seeing as we run so many creatures having some board protection might be worth while. Or have you found the combination of Freebooter and Meddling Mage to be enough hand disruption? Or is some recursion (i.e. eternal witness/renegade rallier) or board protection (I.e. selfless spirit) reasonable considerations?
Would welcome your thoughts as it looks like the list is progressing well
Thanks for your response. Sorry, should've specified: I'm running a Bant list with a single red splash for Kessig, as you suggested. I don't have a black splash, but thanks for the suggestions.
How have you found staticaster working out? Any trouble casting it due to colours? I may look into it as a possible option. The meta is quite varied out my FNM but no Affinity and I'm the only one that runs Vizier Company....
I may try a couple of Selfless Spirit too. Without a decent tutor (I.e Chord) I think the chances of hitting a single from the sideboard are pretty slim, and don't think it is worth having more than 1-2... thoughts?
I'm hoping that Auriok Champion and Thalia can do enough to stall the burn match up, along with Blessed Alliance. But I might invest in some Spell Quellers.... would you favour these over Unified Will?
Any other major problem match ups people are facing?
Can you post your list and some match results please?
My sideboard is built for my local meta. The range of decks I face varies massively, but I expect to face; E-Tron, Grixis Delver, Storm, DS Jund, Burn, Elves, Counters Company, Mono-Goblins, Merfolk, Bant Spirits, Affinity and some homebrews.
X1 sigarda, host of herons - useful against E-Tron, Delver and Jund
X1 linvala, keeper of silence - Useful against mirror, Elves, Affinity, E-Tron
X2 abrupt decay - Useful against most decks except E-Tron and storm
X2 path to exile - As above, except not very good against Bant Spirits
X1 kataki, war’s wage - Solely for Affinity hate
X1 qasali pridemage - Useful against Affinity and doubles up for removing blood moon etc
X1 kambal, consul of allocation - Useful against burn and storm
X1 thalia, heretic cathar - Useful against E-Tron, Goblins and Spirits
X2 sin collector - Useful against removal heavy decks
X1 orzhov pontiff - Useful against Affinity, elves and merfolk
X1 ethersworn canonist - easier to get than kambal versus storm
X1 anafenza, the foremost - additional graveyard hate and a good beater.
My current deck has both Druid and Finks combo and I’m not running any KotR. Using kitesail Freebooter, spellskite, renegade rallier and scavenging ooze as flex spots. Been happy with the results so far...
X1 sigarda, host of herons - useful against E-Tron, Delver and Jund
X1 linvala, keeper of silence - Useful against mirror, Elves, Affinity, E-Tron
X2 abrupt decay - Useful against most decks except E-Tron and storm
X2 path to exile - As above, except not very good against Bant Spirits
X1 kataki, war’s wage - Solely for Affinity hate
X1 qasali pridemage - Useful against Affinity and doubles up for removing blood moon etc
X1 kambal, consul of allocation - Useful against burn and storm
X1 thalia, heretic cathar - Useful against E-Tron, Goblins and Spirits
X2 sin collector - Useful against removal heavy decks
X1 orzhov pontiff - Useful against Affinity, elves and merfolk
X1 ethersworn canonist - easier to get than kambal versus storm
X1 anafenza, the foremost - additional graveyard hate and a good beater.
My current deck has both Druid and Finks combo and I’m not running any KotR. Using kitesail Freebooter, spellskite, renegade rallier and scavenging ooze as flex spots. Been happy with the results so far...
My main thinking is for utility of commune with nature to tutor up one of our 8 utility cards (paladin/Sram)) while keeping some number of swan song/silence.
Don’t get me wrong, tidehollow sculler is great, but why are people choosing this over kitesail Freebooter? The latter is less taxing on mana and has flying... this combined with gavony township can give a real boost if we can’t find our combo.
If I am missing something then I love to be enlightened
Admittedly, it’s a pretty situational card and obviously isn’t going to be that effective if you can’t use the ETB trigger. However, a 3/2 beater that can be pumped with gavony township isn’t too bad....
Furthermore, I’m not playing KotR, nor am I playing another win-con (other than walking ballista) and so far haven’t found that I have needed it. I have more-often-than-not won using either the kitchen finks or devoted Druid combo.
Finally, as per my previous post I’m really liking the use of kitesail Freebooter. Give it a go
Personally, with E-Tron I side the following; linvala, keeper of silence, sigarda, host of herons, qasali pridemage, thalia, heretic cathar and path to exile. Seems to work pretty well.
@Arkaedrian
@spankz
How has voice of resurgence worked out for you?
Also, is the one-of fauna shaman worth it? I’m considering testing it, but feel I would want something faster (no idea what).
Also noted regarding the spelling of the cards. However, as far as I can tell I spelt two wrong(?!), which were genuine mistakes because tablets tend to autocorrect even though I typed them in right. Just for your sake, I will make sure they’re right from now on
4 birds of paradise
3 noble hierarch
1 viscera seer
4 devoted Druid
4 vizier of remedies
1 spellskite
1 scavenging ooze
3 Kitesail Freebooter
1 duskwatch recruiter
3 kitchen finks
1 walking ballista
2 renegade rallier
4 eternal witness
4 Collected Comoany
4 chord of calling
1 kambal, consul of allocation
1 Anafenza, the foremost
1 linvala, keeper of secrets
1 sigarda host of herons
1 Kataki wars wage
3 sin collector
2 pathetic to exile
2 abrupt decay
1 Qasali pridemage
1 Thalia, heretic cathar
1 selfless spirit
round 1 vs Mono-white Prison (homebrew) 2-0
Game 1 found infinite life combo on turn 3 (hitting both finks and seer off a CoCo). Opponent wanted to keep playing, although I still have no idea what his out would be, so decided to scary Druid to the top of my library with a single Chord in hand. Proceeded to get infinite mana combo and play walking ballista.
Game 2 I used double Freebooter to steal two declaration in stone from my opponents hand and saw he had land and sphere of safety. Felt pretty confident I could play my Druid the following turn and eventually combo on turn 4.
Round 2 vs E-Tron 2-1
Game 1 I naturally drew into the infinite life combo on turn 4. My opponent was about to scoop, and it being FNM and the fact that he often misses triggers/abilities etc. I thought I would be nice and point out that he could still potentially win if he found an Ulamog, the ceaseless hunger - really wish I had let him scoop because this is how the game planned out. He had his turn and sulkily played an Ulamog, the invite gyre and stupidly I forgot that annihalator affects permanents and not just creatures. I scried Vizier to the top of my library but realised that I wouldn’t have enough lands or creatures to keep my Druid alive or play Chord/CoCo. Struggling to think of a way out of the situation my opponent drew a blightsteel coloussus.... with no board state nor lands I lost the following turn!!
Game 2 and 3 were great recompense. Found infinite mana combo on turn 3 in both games! Excellent games but lesson learnt.
Round 3 vs Bant spirits 2-1
Game 1 I managed to build a bit of a board state with several Freebooters, mana dorks, seer and a Druid. Opponent attacked and blocked with everything but the Druid and used seer to scry a Vizier to the top of my library and won on my turn.
Game 2 I couldn’t keep up with several Geists and 4/4 flying angels. Game 3 my opponent mulled to 5 and never recovered and I got the infinite mana combo on turn 4.
Round 4 vs affinity 0-2
Game 1 my opponent dumped his entire hand and swung for 12 the following turn. Nothing I could do. Game 2 was virtually the same as the first except a turn later.
Thoughts
- I can see there are some arguments for dropping the Finks combo. However, having played versions of the deck with KotR I feel that being able to jam either combo is just too good. Infinite life is not a guaranteed win (as my match against E-Tron proved), but it’s pretty difficult to overcome for a lot of decks. Or might be able to buy you enough time to find the other combo. I agree that KotR can be an absolute powerhouse and can help with filtering lands or finding Kessig. However, have a free chump blocker that can be utilised in a combo is too invaluable.
- Kitesail Freebooter was excellent. Not only having a flying creature that can get pumped by Township, but seeing an opponents hand is invaluable. I will be keeping them in the deck.
- I know my Affinity opponent had some absolute nut-draws, but I really felt I couldn’t race him. Anyone got any experience?
I’ve been giving the decklist some thought and I am assuming that Oscar ran 4 duskwatch recruiter because it is a great mana sink (most decks run 9-12 mana dorks) and this helps you tutor up either of the combos. The flip-side (no pun intended) is that he can flip and provide a reasonable beater. However in my games I’ve felt multiples have been that useful and therefore thinking of making the following changes;
-3 duskwatch recruiter +3 dark confidant
OR
-3 duskwatch recruiter +3 kitesail Freebooter
OR
-3 duskwatch recruiter +3 voice of resurgence
But of card rationale
Dark Confidant
Admittedly this is a bit more taxing on the manabase and I would probably need to add a basic swamp(?), but this cards is a prime target for removal. Which may take the heat off of our combo creatures. Plus it gives card advantage and given we are playing an infinite life combo the life-loss hopefully won’t be that significant. However, this doesn’t allow us to look at three cards and potentially draw a win, nor does it provide a good beater unless pumped by gavony township.
Kitesail Freebooter
I’ve been testing a 4C human build that runs a playset of this guy. Having cheap hand disruption has been awesome and unlike tidehollow sculler the mana is more achievable. The added bonus is that this creature has flying, so a few Townships boosts or Exalted triggers gives you a reasonable attacker. The other bonus is you get to look at your opponents hand, so can; snipe a removal spell, figure out what deck the opponent is playing and try and determine whether it is safe(ish) to drop a combo piece. If you manage to take an opponents combo piece they will have to remove it. The downsides are that it is a weak creature and won’t help us tutor the combo.
Voice of Resurgence
I know this card featured in historic lists, but with the amount of removal I face in my games I’m wondering whether it’s worth inclusion again. The mana makes it easy to cast and obviously can provide a hefty token. However it doesn’t really help our gameplan of comboing as early possible.
Anyone got any thoughts?
I’m most tempted to try kitesail Freebooter unless anyone can convince me otherwise.
Got a couple of queries about your sideboard:
1. Is a single Staticaster really worth it?
This means you need to add a land to your sideboard, which could possibly free up a better utility card? Could Orzhov Pontiff provide the solution? I appreciate that it only works when it enters the battlefield, but you already have the right colours maindeck and you're playing 4 CoCos. In theory, you could always drop Staticaster and Foundry and add 2 to the sideboard?
2. I see you've been a big advocate of arashin cleric, but with the amount of humans in the deck, would auriok champion be a better option? This way you're less likely to get caught out if an opponent has skullcrack, as you will likely be able to keep jamming creatures, rather than relying on a one-off.
3. Is Abzan falconer really worth it?
What do you bring it in against? It seems a bit to situational for my liking.... I know this scenario is a little far fetched, but say you get your Thalia thoughtseize and then sugical extraction'd? You have no way of giving creatures +1/+1. This makes Falconer pretty redundant.
4. What's your plan vs sweepers?
Seeing as we run so many creatures having some board protection might be worth while. Or have you found the combination of Freebooter and Meddling Mage to be enough hand disruption? Or is some recursion (i.e. eternal witness/renegade rallier) or board protection (I.e. selfless spirit) reasonable considerations?
Would welcome your thoughts as it looks like the list is progressing well
How have you found staticaster working out? Any trouble casting it due to colours? I may look into it as a possible option. The meta is quite varied out my FNM but no Affinity and I'm the only one that runs Vizier Company....
I may try a couple of Selfless Spirit too. Without a decent tutor (I.e Chord) I think the chances of hitting a single from the sideboard are pretty slim, and don't think it is worth having more than 1-2... thoughts?
I'm hoping that Auriok Champion and Thalia can do enough to stall the burn match up, along with Blessed Alliance. But I might invest in some Spell Quellers.... would you favour these over Unified Will?
Any other major problem match ups people are facing?
Can you post your list and some match results please?