If I exile a card with Adamant with Robber of the Rich, can I enable adamant with whatever lands I happen to have (because Robber lets you "spend mana as if it were mana of any color" when you cast the spell)?
So for example, I exile Vantress Paladin with Robber of the Rich. Can I tap 2 swamps and 2 mountains and spend the BBRR mana as if it were UUUU when I cast the Paladin to have it enter with a +1/+1 counter? I feel like I can, but I received the opposite information from MTGO customer service in response to my bug report ticket, so I might be wrong.
If you can't, it would be great to know why you can't, and how that's different from the interaction with cards like Robber of the Rich and kicker. I recently played in a modern GP and had a judge confirm that if I exiled Vines of Vastwood with Gonti, Lord of Luxury, I could use any color mana to pay the kicker cost when I cast it. The judge initially said that I couldn't, but then came back to specifically tell me I could (I was debating between Vines of Vastwood and Groundswell with my Gonti hit).
Thanks in advance! And apologies if this question has appeared elsewhere--I did a search, but didn't find anything...
Storm creates copies with the same targets as the original. But the controller can choose other targets, he doesn't have to, even if those targets are illegal. The rest is correct, yes.
That's right, but opponent would have to choose targets before any copies resolve. So once targets are selected, Vial in Shalai...then if opp happens to have a way to remove her (say path to exile or dismember or some nonsense) opponent can get rid of her with grapeshot copies on the stack and they would still resolve. But if opponent can't remove her after choosing targets, then they fizzle.
I'm hoping one of the rules gurus can confirm my understanding of the appropriate time to Aether VialShalai, Voice of Plenty in vs a storm opponent who is going off.
Game state: Vial on 4, Shalai in hand.
Opponent storms off with 19 spells, finishing with grapeshot as the 20th, creating 19 copies of Grapeshot (20 total). My understanding is that opponent must choose targets for all instances of Grapeshot before any instances of Grapeshot resolve. So sequencing would be:
Storm storm storm.
Cast Grapeshot, targeting face (storm trigger)
Storm trigger creates 19 copies of Grapeshot without targets.
Opponent declares face as target for all copies of Grapeshot
With 20 copies of Grapeshot targeting face on the stack, activate Aether Vial
Opponent has no response, put Shalai into play
All instances of Grapeshot fizzle due to invalid [hexproof] target
I read Riley Knight's CFB article about maindecking Rest In Peace in UW control, and it was strange because I had a similar crazy thought about maindecking it in my BW EnT deck. I had been playing around with a pair of Kitesail Freebooters in my build, which turned into a pair of Thraben Inspectors, and given all the graveyard-matters decks that seem to be around lately, I wondered whether maindecking a pair of RiPs might not be worthwhile.
Any thoughts from the hive mind? Against creature-based decks, Wasteland Strangler is one of my all-stars, and with all the extra exiled food for him to process, so I might try going up to a 4-of in the main to see how it goes. Maybe my interest in giving it a shot is because I've been getting manhandled by my buddy's Jund deck lately, and turning his Goyfs and Scoozes off sounds awesome.
It depends on your meta but I like gonti as a sideboard card. He comes in the grindy midrange/control matchups and gets flickered for great value. In those matchups most of their cards will be relevant.
Totally agree with this. Most decks have great hits for Gonti and he’s a guaranteed 2-for-1 with tons of upside (if you have a flickerwisp or displacer or resto to trigger his ETB again). Deathtouch can be relevant in certain matchups as well.
I built a BW E&T deck a while back and am just now getting back into modern to decide whether to sign up for a GP in December. I'm curious about some of the card choices in some recent lists I've seen and hoping the community can help me understand the rationale on their inclusion in maindecks/sideboards:
Gideon, Ally of Zendikar. Loved this guy back when he was in standard and saw him pop up in a couple of sideboards and wasn't sure what matchups he was for. Seems to me that noncreatures aren't where the deck wants to be for threats given the vial synergies, but maybe he's good to board in for matchups when you board in Stony Silence/board out Aether Vial?
Dauntless Bodyguard. This guy strikes me as being too defensive, but curious what folks' experience has been. I can see a nice tempo play where you Vial him in to save something better, but by the point in the game where I have another creature worth saving, it seems unlikely that I'd have a Vial on 1.
Gonti, Lord of Luxury. I love this guy and have been trying him as a 1- or 2-of in the main along with the 4 TKSs. 6 cards at 4-CMC is a lot, but I feel like Vial helps with that a bit, and he can really swing games with his ETB ability (and can really get out of control when flickered). Do others think he may have a place in the BW version of the deck?
I've been running a couple versions of UB through MTGO leagues with reasonable success (mostly 3-2s, a couple 4-1s, and a couple 2-3s). I'm a recovering UW Approach player and I'm really enjoying how the deck is doing in the current meta.
I'm curious what folks' SB strategies are against UW Control. I've been boarding in 3x Duress, 3x Negate, and a pair of Sorcerous Spyglass (as an answer to or at least a speedbump for Teferi and Gideon), but have found myself getting wrecked by Knight of Grace (occasionally with HoB). It seems counter-intuitive to bring in a couple Golden Demise or Bontu's Last Reckoning against UW control, but is that correct based on their post-board strategy? It's so frustrating to not have an answer to the Knight other than a 3+ mana sweeper. I've considered Contraband Kingpin (particularly in the UB puppet version) and Knight of Malice as possible options, but interested to hear what others have found success with.
Do you guys ever side Approaches out postboard to surprise your opponent? Can we even afford to do that?
For sure, especially against decks that run black or blue. It's tough to resolve a 7-mana sorcery post-board, so getting the win through Caracals, Gearhulks, Gideon, or Ipnu Rivulet is much more feasible than Approaching. I usually keep at least 1 in for that instant-win potential, but I find creatures to be much more effective for the win.
I'm still muddling my way through the meta and different builds to see what feels best. Raff Capashen, Ship's Mage is a card that slipped under the radar for me during spoilers, but this past weekend's results demonstrate the power of operating at instant speed in ways that the meta might not be prepared for.
The cards that I'll be trying out (many of which shouldn't be surprising):
Search for Azcanta: flashing this in at EOT is just...amazing. It's always been good in Approach decks, and it's even better with flash.
Gonti, Lord of Luxury: I know I'm not the only one whose stomach churns when this is cast against me. There's a ton of power going around in decks lately, and Gonti allows you to access the power of your opponent's deck, and an instant speed deathtoucher is nutty.
Noxious Gearhulk: Kill a dude, get some life, have a 5/4 menace beater at your disposal at instant speed. Like it.
Liliana, Death's Majesty: She's not my favorite PW, but bringing back your good ETB dudes seems good.
The Mirari Conjecture: I think this has a ton of potential in the right esper build. Getting extra value from your counterspells, doomfalls, Cast Downs, etc., and then doubling them can be very powerful.
Rite of Belzenlok: could be more danger than it's worth because he needs to eat creatures, but it's only 4-mana, and 6/6 flample is no joke. Also, gumming up the board with little duders is a good thing.
Helm of the Host: You guys, this card is BROKEN in limited, and I think it should warrant attention in constructed. Especially when you can flash it in at EOT and activate it the next turn, ideally on one of the sweet ETB creatures on your board (Gonti, Noxious, Torrential, etc.).
Azor, the Lawbringer: The deck I envision is more UB than w (white is mostly for Approach and Seal Away with some artifact/enchantment hate in the SB), so I'm leery of a WW creature, but is a huge body and silences them for their next turn.
Urza's Ruinous Blast and Yawgmoth's Vile Offering: The former is a nonbo with Seal Away or other enchantment-based removal, but these two spells at instant speed are as good as it gets.
A couple final thoughts. First, it sure seems like 1-2 Sorcerous Spyglass main wouldn't be incorrect to combat all the Karns, Teferis, and Walking Ballistas out there. I'm so sick of Walking Ballista...
Second, if Karn or other artifacts become ubiquitous, Ceremonious Rejection will get a lot better and could warrant SB consideration.
Hey rules gurus! I had a couple of rules questions that have been puzzling me and thought I'd post them here:
1) If I have Leyline of Anticipation out (or other similar effect in play that allows me to cast sorceries as if they had flash) with Captivating Crew, am I able to activate Captivating Crew's ability as if it had flash? A literal reading of the two cards together would suggest that I could--Captivating Crew says that I can "activate this ability only any time you could cast a sorcery," and with Leyline in play, that would be any time. I suppose this question would go for any sorcery-speed ability (activate Hashep Oasis, equip something).
2) If I cast Sylvan Awakening and then equip Helm of the Host to a land that has been made into a 2/2 elemental creature with reach, indestructible, and haste that is still a land, (a) what pops out of the Helm, and (b) what happens to whatever pops out on my next turn? If the land in question is a Field of Ruin, do I have a permanent 2/2 indestructible, haste Field of Ruin with reach? The wording on Sylvan Awakening card suggests that I do, but that seems pretty insane (although costly to pull off).
Testing is ongoing, and I am waiting for access to DOM cards to bring those into the mix: Karn was the main reason I thought of it, Seal Away and Syncopate would be good upgrades to the removal/counters, and there could be some good Historic synergies. So far, it has great game against UR GPG: the Pacification Array shuts down the infinite Combat Celebrant finish, and the artifact subtheme makes running 3 Crook of Condemnation in the SB no problem, and in fact very desirable. With the Arrays and flipped compasses, there's a point at which you can achieve lockdown control of the board with an absurd amount of mana to access, and wins often come through Ipnu rivulets (running 9 deserts).
I need to work on the ratio of counterspells, removal, and sweepers to address weaknesses to creatures, PWs, and go-wide (token) decks, but it's been a fun deck to play for sure. I'll keep testing and if it gets anywhere near competitive, will report back...
I was looking again at some of the DOM spoilers, and I think Jaya Ballard may be worth a look in a Jeskai Approach shell. Both of her +1s are great to cast or dig for approach (or other answers you may need), and her -8 has great synergy with all the instants and sorcerers we play. I dabbled in UW Drake for a while, and Abandoned Sarcophagus is no joke. Her emblem does the same for all of your counterspells and sweepers, which is huge.
It’s too bad she doesn’t protect herself: that and her high CMC (and RRR cost) might be reasons she won’t work, but as with all other walkers, she’ll be a lightning rod for attacks which can keep life total afloat.
I don't know Patrick Chapin or whether he's played much UW (or Approach) in this standard, but I'm puzzled by some of his card choices. The 2x Gideon/Teferi seems like a good place to start for a new-style UW Approach build, but the Evolving Wilds doesn't strike me as being a good choice for the deck (as opposed to a couple more Field of Ruin). 2 Ipnu also seems wrong because it's a hidden wincon that's tough for opponents to stop. Spells-wise, it's a lot of the usual suspects...some things I've moved away from (Censor, Pull from Tomorrow, Hieroglyphic Illumination), but only 2 Approaches seems incorrect. Sideboard is highly suspect (particularly Spell Pierce, Sacred Cat, Solemnity?).
I hadn't considered Memorial to Genius...might be a nice 1-of late game include, but I'm just so leery of enters-tapped lands that I'm not sure it's worth it.
Agree about Slaughter the Strong potentially being a nice check against the G deck that's likely coming down the pike. I'm not sure about mainboarding it, but it may find a home in the SB depending on how the metagame shakes out.
I played against a mono G stompy-style deck tonight on MTGO that was super fast...way too fast for the typical UW setup, and it will only get faster with Llanowar Elves. G1 he went:
It was reminiscent of the Pummeler decks that were running around for a while--putting you on a fast clock that you have to disrupt or else die fast. Chump blockers will only get you so far with the trample provided by Rhonas's Monument (and, of course, Galta).
@kpal: Not sure if you were "get real"ing me or the previous dude, but my point was just that the 3 bodies caracal provides strike me as being a better option in a mostly creature-less deck than the one dawnbringer. Approach is a fragile wincon post-board (when negate, duress, and doomfall typically come in), no doubt about that. For me, it's a question of what the best alternate creature-based wincons are games 2 & 3, and I think it's nice to have extra bodies on the battlefield.
@M@lcontent: I agree re: Lyra Dawnbringer and Fall of the Thran. For 5 mana, I'd much rather have 3 cats (7 total power) than one big old Vraska's Contempt target. At least with the cats they need 3 removal spells to get rid of them all. I've seen a few red decks bring in Sweltering Suns from the sideboard specifically for the cats, so I grant that Lyra would be better in that situation, but I think getting 3 bodies is worth the risk.
Part of me wonders whether Fall of the Thran might work in a build that relies on a bunch of artifacts and Inspiring Statuary, but if I'm mentioning Inspiring Statuary, chances are I'm pretty far from a viable deck. Although when I first thought of Inspiring Statuary, I wondered whether there might be potential for a ramp deck that relies on that card and a bunch of artifacts to accelerate the Approach--the Bant Approach had some success with ramp, and even Mono-W relies on Orazca relic to approach quicker...seems too janky to work, but I might test it out, particularly with Mox Amber.
I think Teferi, Hero of Dominaria could have promise. Gideon mainly functions as a must-answer threat that either draws a contempt right away (meaning opponent takes a turn off to get rid of him), or else saves you 3-7 life from creatures attacking him, and he (very occasionally, but sometimes) can get the win through beatdowns. The upside to Teferi is that with negate backup to protect against contempt, he has a better chance of sticking around for a turn or two (or hopefully longer), and his ultimate is backbreaking. Approach necks need ways to stay alive long enough to approach twice, and Teferi is another good option to let you do that because he's must-answer. Is he better than Gideon?
I also agree re Esper being more viable after DOM drops. I think Jeskai may be worth another look. With Sulfur Falls the mana base will be just as good as Esper, and Wizard's Retort and Wizard's Lightning along with a few copies of Baral, Chief of Compliance (and potentially the Naga Wizard Champion of Wits). I don't like the idea of moving away from a creatureless build, but there may be value in doing so. Reducing instants/sorceries by 1 is a good thing, as is plowing through your deck with Champ...
So for example, I exile Vantress Paladin with Robber of the Rich. Can I tap 2 swamps and 2 mountains and spend the BBRR mana as if it were UUUU when I cast the Paladin to have it enter with a +1/+1 counter? I feel like I can, but I received the opposite information from MTGO customer service in response to my bug report ticket, so I might be wrong.
If you can't, it would be great to know why you can't, and how that's different from the interaction with cards like Robber of the Rich and kicker. I recently played in a modern GP and had a judge confirm that if I exiled Vines of Vastwood with Gonti, Lord of Luxury, I could use any color mana to pay the kicker cost when I cast it. The judge initially said that I couldn't, but then came back to specifically tell me I could (I was debating between Vines of Vastwood and Groundswell with my Gonti hit).
Thanks in advance! And apologies if this question has appeared elsewhere--I did a search, but didn't find anything...
That's right, but opponent would have to choose targets before any copies resolve. So once targets are selected, Vial in Shalai...then if opp happens to have a way to remove her (say path to exile or dismember or some nonsense) opponent can get rid of her with grapeshot copies on the stack and they would still resolve. But if opponent can't remove her after choosing targets, then they fizzle.
Thanks much!
Game state: Vial on 4, Shalai in hand.
Opponent storms off with 19 spells, finishing with grapeshot as the 20th, creating 19 copies of Grapeshot (20 total). My understanding is that opponent must choose targets for all instances of Grapeshot before any instances of Grapeshot resolve. So sequencing would be:
Is that right? Thanks in advance.
Any thoughts from the hive mind? Against creature-based decks, Wasteland Strangler is one of my all-stars, and with all the extra exiled food for him to process, so I might try going up to a 4-of in the main to see how it goes. Maybe my interest in giving it a shot is because I've been getting manhandled by my buddy's Jund deck lately, and turning his Goyfs and Scoozes off sounds awesome.
Totally agree with this. Most decks have great hits for Gonti and he’s a guaranteed 2-for-1 with tons of upside (if you have a flickerwisp or displacer or resto to trigger his ETB again). Deathtouch can be relevant in certain matchups as well.
Thanks all!
I'm curious what folks' SB strategies are against UW Control. I've been boarding in 3x Duress, 3x Negate, and a pair of Sorcerous Spyglass (as an answer to or at least a speedbump for Teferi and Gideon), but have found myself getting wrecked by Knight of Grace (occasionally with HoB). It seems counter-intuitive to bring in a couple Golden Demise or Bontu's Last Reckoning against UW control, but is that correct based on their post-board strategy? It's so frustrating to not have an answer to the Knight other than a 3+ mana sweeper. I've considered Contraband Kingpin (particularly in the UB puppet version) and Knight of Malice as possible options, but interested to hear what others have found success with.
For sure, especially against decks that run black or blue. It's tough to resolve a 7-mana sorcery post-board, so getting the win through Caracals, Gearhulks, Gideon, or Ipnu Rivulet is much more feasible than Approaching. I usually keep at least 1 in for that instant-win potential, but I find creatures to be much more effective for the win.
I'm still muddling my way through the meta and different builds to see what feels best. Raff Capashen, Ship's Mage is a card that slipped under the radar for me during spoilers, but this past weekend's results demonstrate the power of operating at instant speed in ways that the meta might not be prepared for.
It's early days, but my current project is an Esper build that harnesses the power of Raff to operate almost entirely at instant speed and looks to maximize powerful ETBs. The basic package would include 3x Approach of the Second Sun, 4x Seal Away, 3x Cast Down, 3x Vraska's Contempt, 3x Negate, 3x Disallow, 1-2 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria, 1-2x Doomfall, and maybe 1-2 Spell Swindle (I just can't quit that card).
The cards that I'll be trying out (many of which shouldn't be surprising):
A couple final thoughts. First, it sure seems like 1-2 Sorcerous Spyglass main wouldn't be incorrect to combat all the Karns, Teferis, and Walking Ballistas out there. I'm so sick of Walking Ballista...
Second, if Karn or other artifacts become ubiquitous, Ceremonious Rejection will get a lot better and could warrant SB consideration.
Edit: Added Urza's Ruinous Blast and Yawgmoth's Vile Offering...
1) If I have Leyline of Anticipation out (or other similar effect in play that allows me to cast sorceries as if they had flash) with Captivating Crew, am I able to activate Captivating Crew's ability as if it had flash? A literal reading of the two cards together would suggest that I could--Captivating Crew says that I can "activate this ability only any time you could cast a sorcery," and with Leyline in play, that would be any time. I suppose this question would go for any sorcery-speed ability (activate Hashep Oasis, equip something).
2) If I cast Sylvan Awakening and then equip Helm of the Host to a land that has been made into a 2/2 elemental creature with reach, indestructible, and haste that is still a land, (a) what pops out of the Helm, and (b) what happens to whatever pops out on my next turn? If the land in question is a Field of Ruin, do I have a permanent 2/2 indestructible, haste Field of Ruin with reach? The wording on Sylvan Awakening card suggests that I do, but that seems pretty insane (although costly to pull off).
Thanks!
Ever since I mentioned stupid Inspiring Statuary, I've been tinkering with a Bant Approach deck that uses Treasure Map, Thaumatic Compass, and Pacification Array (and/or Edifice of Authority) along with Hour of Promise to ramp up into double Approach pretty quickly (once as early as T5).
Testing is ongoing, and I am waiting for access to DOM cards to bring those into the mix: Karn was the main reason I thought of it, Seal Away and Syncopate would be good upgrades to the removal/counters, and there could be some good Historic synergies. So far, it has great game against UR GPG: the Pacification Array shuts down the infinite Combat Celebrant finish, and the artifact subtheme makes running 3 Crook of Condemnation in the SB no problem, and in fact very desirable. With the Arrays and flipped compasses, there's a point at which you can achieve lockdown control of the board with an absurd amount of mana to access, and wins often come through Ipnu rivulets (running 9 deserts).
I need to work on the ratio of counterspells, removal, and sweepers to address weaknesses to creatures, PWs, and go-wide (token) decks, but it's been a fun deck to play for sure. I'll keep testing and if it gets anywhere near competitive, will report back...
It’s too bad she doesn’t protect herself: that and her high CMC (and RRR cost) might be reasons she won’t work, but as with all other walkers, she’ll be a lightning rod for attacks which can keep life total afloat.
I don't know Patrick Chapin or whether he's played much UW (or Approach) in this standard, but I'm puzzled by some of his card choices. The 2x Gideon/Teferi seems like a good place to start for a new-style UW Approach build, but the Evolving Wilds doesn't strike me as being a good choice for the deck (as opposed to a couple more Field of Ruin). 2 Ipnu also seems wrong because it's a hidden wincon that's tough for opponents to stop. Spells-wise, it's a lot of the usual suspects...some things I've moved away from (Censor, Pull from Tomorrow, Hieroglyphic Illumination), but only 2 Approaches seems incorrect. Sideboard is highly suspect (particularly Spell Pierce, Sacred Cat, Solemnity?).
I hadn't considered Memorial to Genius...might be a nice 1-of late game include, but I'm just so leery of enters-tapped lands that I'm not sure it's worth it.
I played against a mono G stompy-style deck tonight on MTGO that was super fast...way too fast for the typical UW setup, and it will only get faster with Llanowar Elves. G1 he went:
- Forest, Greenbelt Rampager, pass.
- Forest, Greenbelt, pass.
- Forest, Rhonas's Monument, swing for 3, pass.
- Forest, Resilient Khenra x3, swing for 15 with the Rampager.
It was reminiscent of the Pummeler decks that were running around for a while--putting you on a fast clock that you have to disrupt or else die fast. Chump blockers will only get you so far with the trample provided by Rhonas's Monument (and, of course, Galta).The good thing about Slaughter the Strong is that it will get around Blossoming Defense and Heroic Intervention. I also think Authority of the Consuls might become a thing again (or remaining a thing for those who kept it in the SB).
Part of me wonders whether Fall of the Thran might work in a build that relies on a bunch of artifacts and Inspiring Statuary, but if I'm mentioning Inspiring Statuary, chances are I'm pretty far from a viable deck. Although when I first thought of Inspiring Statuary, I wondered whether there might be potential for a ramp deck that relies on that card and a bunch of artifacts to accelerate the Approach--the Bant Approach had some success with ramp, and even Mono-W relies on Orazca relic to approach quicker...seems too janky to work, but I might test it out, particularly with Mox Amber.
I think Teferi, Hero of Dominaria could have promise. Gideon mainly functions as a must-answer threat that either draws a contempt right away (meaning opponent takes a turn off to get rid of him), or else saves you 3-7 life from creatures attacking him, and he (very occasionally, but sometimes) can get the win through beatdowns. The upside to Teferi is that with negate backup to protect against contempt, he has a better chance of sticking around for a turn or two (or hopefully longer), and his ultimate is backbreaking. Approach necks need ways to stay alive long enough to approach twice, and Teferi is another good option to let you do that because he's must-answer. Is he better than Gideon?
I also agree re Esper being more viable after DOM drops. I think Jeskai may be worth another look. With Sulfur Falls the mana base will be just as good as Esper, and Wizard's Retort and Wizard's Lightning along with a few copies of Baral, Chief of Compliance (and potentially the Naga Wizard Champion of Wits). I don't like the idea of moving away from a creatureless build, but there may be value in doing so. Reducing instants/sorceries by 1 is a good thing, as is plowing through your deck with Champ...