I've been testing Bodyguard, and my conclusion is... it's fine. Not great, but fine. Kytheon is probably better if you want the extra 1-drop, but I think I'm ready to test some of these 4-cost cards people have been winning with.
Running Kenji's article through Google Translate, here's the core list as he sees it:
The creature slots can be the fourth Image and/or Thalia, Malcontents, Resto, Bob, or your favorite spice. 19th land is typically the last Canopy, but can also be another Seachrome Coast, another Plains, or an Island. The last sideboard slots went to Gut Shot for go-wide decks and Daredevil for removal-heavy decks, though clearly all sideboard slots can be flex slots depending on your expected metagame.
Looks like I can feel a little better about only owning 3 Canopies. I'd argue the 4th Meddling Mage can also be a flex spot if you'd rather cut it than a Thalia or Image. Not sure I agree with his "core" sideboard. I've never run Auriok Champion or Reclamation Sage, but they've been showing up enough recently that I guess I should give them a try? The decks that call for Auriok have been pretty good matchups for me so far, and I don't think hitting Blood Moon and other enchantments (Kenji lists Ghirapur Aether Grid and Daybreak Coronet) is enough to make Rec Sage better than Renegades. I'd rather just accept that some games I'll lose to those cards.
Unrelated, but Brian Basoco posted an article talking about his SCG Team Open winning list that could be worth discussing. He seems very focused on the mirror, which I suppose makes sense for a Team Open.
I haven't been following this discussion much: I'm guessing the main advantage of Pool is entering untapped late game? I can't think of any other scenario where having Coast limited me on mana in a way Pool would have fixed. Pretty sure I've had to play Coast turn 1 plenty of times, so I think I'm keeping Coast #2 for now.
Are people struggling with the Hollow One matchup? It's felt pretty favorable to me. I'm curious to hear what cards people think are poor in the matchup and preferred Meddling Mage names, but in general Reflector Mage and Mantis Rider are great in the matchup and it's not hard to get into a board stall to let your flyers finish the job.
Humans will always have a tough time with sweepers. It really depends on what sweepers are common and how fast the decks running them can close. Most archetypes only have access to one sweeper, which makes Meddling Mage a good tool to fight them. In general I find you have to play into the cheap sweepers if you want to establish a board presence. Against 4+ mana sweepers you have more room to hold cards in hand and redeploy after if they have it. As for sideboard slots, Xathrid Necromancer has broader applications, being strong against spot removal and in some creature matchups where you want to use the extra chump blockers to race with flyers, while Selfless Spirit is the only way to beat exactly Anger of the Gods. I don't have much experience with Gaddock Teeg, but he seems better than Necromancer against WU Control, Tron, Scapeshift, and combo decks reliant on expensive spells (Ad Nauseam, KCI, Whir Lantern, Chord of Calling decks) but worse against Mardu, Jund, Grixis Shadow (and Grixis Control, depending on the list), and Jeskai. I'm more concerned with the latter category, both in this metagame and in general.
I feel the same way about Resto as I do about Deputy of Acquittals: they're interesting, innovative options that could very well be great in the deck, but I'm working on finalizing my list for SCG Milwaukee and I don't have near enough time to test either right now.
I do like some of his other choices though: I think I'd rather have the 4th Thaila than the 4th Meddling Mage right now, I like Malcontents and Inspector as his other flex slots, and 3 Daredevil in the board makes sense in a list with less grindy elements. I'm less sure of the Hostage Takers and the Riders of Gavony. I don't want a sideboard card solely for the mirror match and any non-tribal matchup you're boarding it in it's basically a bad Mirran Crusader. And I've never been happy with how mana-intensive Hostage Taker is, though maybe it's just a better option than Vithian Renegades.
What's the game plan against Tron? Every time I run into it I only seem to win games where my opponent keeps bad hands, otherwise they can wipe my board through disruption before I can close. Is Gaddock Teeg the answer? I haven't tested it much but on paper it doesn't seem worth it. I don't want a hate card for Tron that still loses to O-Stone and he's only so-so against Wrath decks.
How do people feel about Xathrid Necromancer vs. Selfless Spirit? I've been running one of each but if people are seriously running Necromancer main deck it makes me think maybe I should commit to multiple copies in the board.
A couple more things for the Saffi vs Bodyguard debate:
1) Bodyguard works against Anger of the Gods, a commonly played card and a huge thorn in our side.
2) Bodyguard would generally be used to protect an early Champion or Lieutenant. As Ziszou89 said, Saffi can't protect a large Champion or Lieutenant, while Bodyguard fills this slot in the curve fairly well. A couple potential lines:
T1 Vial, T2 cast Lieutenant, Vial in Bodyguard in response to trigger
T1 Vial, T2 cast hatebear (Thalia, Meddling Mage, Freebooter), Vial in Bodyguard to protect key card in matchup
T1 Hierarch, T2 Bodyguard + 2 drop (if Hierarch sticks)
T1 Hierarch, opp removes Hierarch, T2 2 drop, T3 Bodyguard + 2 drop (for the hands where you don't have a 3 drop or Reflector Mage has no targets yet)
Clearly Bodyguard is a weak T1 play, but in a deck where all the 1 drops get weaker the later you play them I don't think having a 1 drop that's better after turn 1 is such a bad thing. I'd like to have a 1 drop I can play on T4 alongside my 3 drop and still get value from it. Personally I plan to try a list like patbou describes with Bodyguard as the 9th and 10th 1 drop and I'll see how it goes once DOM is released.
For now I think Kytheon vs Inspector vs 2 drops is largely a judgement call. I like Inspector over Kytheon against UWx due to their interactions w/ Path and Electrolyze as well as against aggressive decks where a 1/2 can be better than a 2/1, while Kytheon is better against combo as a clock and against midrange/control decks using black and/or red for their removal.
Looks like this past weekend Jonathon Rosum and Collins Mullen top 8'd a SCG Classic and IQ respectively with this list, which offers an interesting take on the new meta:
I can’t find Collins Mullen’s list. Can you please provide the URL to the event and Top 8?
You can find the lists for the IQ Mullen played in here: http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/deckshow.php?event_ID=29&t[T2]=28&start_date=2018-03-10&end_date=2018-03-10&state=NC&city=Cary&order_1=finish&order_2=last_name&limit=8&t_num=1&action=Show+Decks. Side note, if anyone can show me the proper way to create a [url]-tag for that link I'd appreciate it.
Regarding both Thraben Inspector vs. Dark Confidant and Dauntless Bodyguard vs. Saffi Eriksdotter let's not undersell the difference between 1 and 2 mana. Too many times I've played a turn 1 Aether Vial and not activated it until turn 3. We have our disruptive elements and our grindy elements but at the end of the day we're in the Aggro/Tempo section of the forum for a reason, and I want to curve out as consistently as possible.
Looks like this past weekend Jonathon Rosum and Collins Mullen top 8'd a SCG Classic and IQ respectively with this list, which offers an interesting take on the new meta:
I've tried Inspectors in the past and while I didn't hate them they didn't feel particularly impactful either. Still, the redraw is powerful enough I could see reincluding a copy or two. P&K make for an interesting option for grinding, and I guess Reflecting Pool can theoretically let you activate their ability? Again, I'm not in love but maybe this is the right approach to a Jund meta.
As for the sideboard, can somebody explain to me why people are running Auriok Champion? Obviously it's great vs Burn but I don't want it for grindy matchups. I don't care how much removal it resists, it's still a 2 mana 1/1. I'm not big on Gaddock Teeg either; I've lost to too many Oblivion Stones, Angers, Sweltering Suns, etc. I've preferred big Thalia as a tool for the "big" mana matchups (including midrange/control decks that play 4 drops) as a way to get one more turn before my opponent can resolve a sweeper.
On the other hand I am a fan of the SB pirates. I've been off of Hostage Taker for a while but the idea of taking BBE hostage is very, very appealing, particularly if you board out Vial. Daredevil is strong in the grindy matchups and is broadly powerful enough to slot in when you have more cuts for a matchup than dedicated sideboard slots.
Other thoughts? I'm hoping to stay on Humans while I wait for DOM to drop Dauntless Bodyguard but have been struggling since the ban, so I'd love to hear what adaptions others have made in the face of BBE.
Hi there, I've been looking at picking up this deck (namely the BR Goblin Lore version splashing for Grudges), and in some goldfishing I've had a rough time figuring out what kind of hand is a mulligan. Is there any guide/suggestions out there for mulliganing well with this deck? I haven't been able to find much.
I don’t think you really need breach or Kiki now. I’ve been running a snow land build with skred as my other form of removal because I hate roast. I play mostly at instant speed so scrying sheets has also been good. Now rather than those cards I just play 2 jtms, 3 bedlam revler, and 4 snaps as my win cons. I think 2 vapor snags in my list are allstars as well.
Willing to share your list? Because that sounds awesome.
Could a card like Mark of Asylum help against Jeskai and Anger decks? At this point I just want a human Selfless Spirit but I doubt they're going to give us that anytime soon.
Glad to see Humans doing well! I've been lurking for a while, playing the deck in paper and it's good to have some results to point to now (even if I think Collected Company is way better than Aether Vial most of the time). I've been running a list similar to kingcars from the previous page and I'd like to hear any thoughts on the list, and I have a few specific questions as well.
I see Arashin Cleric in a lot of sideboards; is that just for the Burn match up or are there other times it comes in? I haven't played the match up much but I'd think you could either beat them without the extra help, or if you really want an anti-Burn card you'd play Auriok Champion instead.
@kingcars, how have you liked the Arid Mesa manabase? I thought I'd rather fetch Forest for mana dorks and/or CoCo against land hate but the deck does seem to be largely white-based.
Do you board in Rest in Peace vs. Grixis Shadow? I've been happy with it when running more controlling archetypes but I can see it being too slow for Humans to want it against them.
Are there any realistic options for enchantment hate? It's probably not necessary in the current metagame, but I ran into some prison/control deck running main deck Ghostly Prisons the other day and the match up was virtually unwinnable.
Thoughts on Fiend Hunter vs. Banisher Priest (in the sideboard)? The effects are virtually identical in most lists so I guess it's determined by how much you want to turn them sideways.
What do people think of Harsh Mentor? I seriously doubt it's worth it in the main deck (though maybe a bear that does incidental damage could find a place in sufficiently aggressive lists) but it seems pretty good as a sideboard card for Lantern, Displacer Taxes, and possibly Eldrazi Tron.
I wouldn't normally pay much attention to a League list but pilot Awesum_Rosum has put up a fair share of results online and in paper. I've wanted to try Search for Azcanta in Modern but I hadn't considered it in the Jeskai Queller shell. I imagine it makes those 3 Logic Knots a lot better.
Hey there, I haven't played the deck in a while. What does the current stock (non Wish) version look like? Riso's list above seems pretty close.
I see Godhead of Awe in some sideboards; is that just for Shadow or does it come in in other matchups as well? For what matchups would you rather have a different bomb in your 75?
Hi, I'm fairly new to the deck. Is there a reason Ancient Stirrings has never seen play in Affinity? I imagine part of the issue is mana, so I've been thinking about increasing the Glimmervoid/Spire of Industry above 4 by cutting one of each Nexus and using Stirrings to find them when I need them. It just seems better than something like Thoughtcast; from my past experiences with combo decks I value card quality over quantity.
Running Kenji's article through Google Translate, here's the core list as he sees it:
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Kitesail Freebooter
4 Meddling Mage
3 Phantasmal Image
4 Thalia's Lieutenant
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Mantis Rider
4 Reflector Mage
3 other creatures
4 Aether Vial
Land (18 of 19)
4 Ancient Ziggurat
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Unclaimed Territory
3 Horizon Canopy
2 Seachrome Coast
1 Plains
1 other land
2 Auriok Champion
2 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Reclamation Sage
2 Izzet Staticaster
2 Sin Collector
1 Dismember
4 other sideboard cards
The creature slots can be the fourth Image and/or Thalia, Malcontents, Resto, Bob, or your favorite spice. 19th land is typically the last Canopy, but can also be another Seachrome Coast, another Plains, or an Island. The last sideboard slots went to Gut Shot for go-wide decks and Daredevil for removal-heavy decks, though clearly all sideboard slots can be flex slots depending on your expected metagame.
Looks like I can feel a little better about only owning 3 Canopies. I'd argue the 4th Meddling Mage can also be a flex spot if you'd rather cut it than a Thalia or Image. Not sure I agree with his "core" sideboard. I've never run Auriok Champion or Reclamation Sage, but they've been showing up enough recently that I guess I should give them a try? The decks that call for Auriok have been pretty good matchups for me so far, and I don't think hitting Blood Moon and other enchantments (Kenji lists Ghirapur Aether Grid and Daybreak Coronet) is enough to make Rec Sage better than Renegades. I'd rather just accept that some games I'll lose to those cards.
Unrelated, but Brian Basoco posted an article talking about his SCG Team Open winning list that could be worth discussing. He seems very focused on the mirror, which I suppose makes sense for a Team Open.
I haven't been following this discussion much: I'm guessing the main advantage of Pool is entering untapped late game? I can't think of any other scenario where having Coast limited me on mana in a way Pool would have fixed. Pretty sure I've had to play Coast turn 1 plenty of times, so I think I'm keeping Coast #2 for now.
I'll need to test before forming an opinion here. I haven't seen a list with Deputy posted yet but I'd give it a try.
Are people struggling with the Hollow One matchup? It's felt pretty favorable to me. I'm curious to hear what cards people think are poor in the matchup and preferred Meddling Mage names, but in general Reflector Mage and Mantis Rider are great in the matchup and it's not hard to get into a board stall to let your flyers finish the job.
Humans will always have a tough time with sweepers. It really depends on what sweepers are common and how fast the decks running them can close. Most archetypes only have access to one sweeper, which makes Meddling Mage a good tool to fight them. In general I find you have to play into the cheap sweepers if you want to establish a board presence. Against 4+ mana sweepers you have more room to hold cards in hand and redeploy after if they have it. As for sideboard slots, Xathrid Necromancer has broader applications, being strong against spot removal and in some creature matchups where you want to use the extra chump blockers to race with flyers, while Selfless Spirit is the only way to beat exactly Anger of the Gods. I don't have much experience with Gaddock Teeg, but he seems better than Necromancer against WU Control, Tron, Scapeshift, and combo decks reliant on expensive spells (Ad Nauseam, KCI, Whir Lantern, Chord of Calling decks) but worse against Mardu, Jund, Grixis Shadow (and Grixis Control, depending on the list), and Jeskai. I'm more concerned with the latter category, both in this metagame and in general.
I do like some of his other choices though: I think I'd rather have the 4th Thaila than the 4th Meddling Mage right now, I like Malcontents and Inspector as his other flex slots, and 3 Daredevil in the board makes sense in a list with less grindy elements. I'm less sure of the Hostage Takers and the Riders of Gavony. I don't want a sideboard card solely for the mirror match and any non-tribal matchup you're boarding it in it's basically a bad Mirran Crusader. And I've never been happy with how mana-intensive Hostage Taker is, though maybe it's just a better option than Vithian Renegades.
What's the game plan against Tron? Every time I run into it I only seem to win games where my opponent keeps bad hands, otherwise they can wipe my board through disruption before I can close. Is Gaddock Teeg the answer? I haven't tested it much but on paper it doesn't seem worth it. I don't want a hate card for Tron that still loses to O-Stone and he's only so-so against Wrath decks.
1) Bodyguard works against Anger of the Gods, a commonly played card and a huge thorn in our side.
2) Bodyguard would generally be used to protect an early Champion or Lieutenant. As Ziszou89 said, Saffi can't protect a large Champion or Lieutenant, while Bodyguard fills this slot in the curve fairly well. A couple potential lines:
T1 Vial, T2 cast Lieutenant, Vial in Bodyguard in response to trigger
T1 Vial, T2 cast hatebear (Thalia, Meddling Mage, Freebooter), Vial in Bodyguard to protect key card in matchup
T1 Hierarch, T2 Bodyguard + 2 drop (if Hierarch sticks)
T1 Hierarch, opp removes Hierarch, T2 2 drop, T3 Bodyguard + 2 drop (for the hands where you don't have a 3 drop or Reflector Mage has no targets yet)
Clearly Bodyguard is a weak T1 play, but in a deck where all the 1 drops get weaker the later you play them I don't think having a 1 drop that's better after turn 1 is such a bad thing. I'd like to have a 1 drop I can play on T4 alongside my 3 drop and still get value from it. Personally I plan to try a list like patbou describes with Bodyguard as the 9th and 10th 1 drop and I'll see how it goes once DOM is released.
For now I think Kytheon vs Inspector vs 2 drops is largely a judgement call. I like Inspector over Kytheon against UWx due to their interactions w/ Path and Electrolyze as well as against aggressive decks where a 1/2 can be better than a 2/1, while Kytheon is better against combo as a clock and against midrange/control decks using black and/or red for their removal.
You can find the lists for the IQ Mullen played in here: http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/deckshow.php?event_ID=29&t[T2]=28&start_date=2018-03-10&end_date=2018-03-10&state=NC&city=Cary&order_1=finish&order_2=last_name&limit=8&t_num=1&action=Show+Decks. Side note, if anyone can show me the proper way to create a [url]-tag for that link I'd appreciate it.
Regarding both Thraben Inspector vs. Dark Confidant and Dauntless Bodyguard vs. Saffi Eriksdotter let's not undersell the difference between 1 and 2 mana. Too many times I've played a turn 1 Aether Vial and not activated it until turn 3. We have our disruptive elements and our grindy elements but at the end of the day we're in the Aggro/Tempo section of the forum for a reason, and I want to curve out as consistently as possible.
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Kitesail Freebooter
4 Mantis Rider
4 Meddling Mage
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Phantasmal Image
4 Reflector Mage
4 Thalia's Lieutenant
2 Thraben Inspector
2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Plains
4 Ancient Ziggurat
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Horizon Canopy
2 Reflecting Pool
4 Unclaimed Territory
Spells (4)
4 Aether Vial
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Auriok Champion
2 Dire Fleet Daredevil
2 Hostage Taker
2 Izzet Staticaster
2 Xathrid Necromancer
2 Dismember
2 Gaddock Teeg
I've tried Inspectors in the past and while I didn't hate them they didn't feel particularly impactful either. Still, the redraw is powerful enough I could see reincluding a copy or two. P&K make for an interesting option for grinding, and I guess Reflecting Pool can theoretically let you activate their ability? Again, I'm not in love but maybe this is the right approach to a Jund meta.
As for the sideboard, can somebody explain to me why people are running Auriok Champion? Obviously it's great vs Burn but I don't want it for grindy matchups. I don't care how much removal it resists, it's still a 2 mana 1/1. I'm not big on Gaddock Teeg either; I've lost to too many Oblivion Stones, Angers, Sweltering Suns, etc. I've preferred big Thalia as a tool for the "big" mana matchups (including midrange/control decks that play 4 drops) as a way to get one more turn before my opponent can resolve a sweeper.
On the other hand I am a fan of the SB pirates. I've been off of Hostage Taker for a while but the idea of taking BBE hostage is very, very appealing, particularly if you board out Vial. Daredevil is strong in the grindy matchups and is broadly powerful enough to slot in when you have more cuts for a matchup than dedicated sideboard slots.
Other thoughts? I'm hoping to stay on Humans while I wait for DOM to drop Dauntless Bodyguard but have been struggling since the ban, so I'd love to hear what adaptions others have made in the face of BBE.
Willing to share your list? Because that sounds awesome.
2 Harsh Mentor
4 Kitesail Freebooter
4 Mantis Rider
2 Mayor of Avabruck
4 Meddling Mage
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Reflector Mage
4 Thalia's Lieutenant
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
4 Ancient Ziggurat
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Horizon Canopy
1 Inspiring Vantage
1 Plains
2 Seachrome Coast
4 Unclaimed Territory
1 Harsh Mentor
1 Reflector Mage
1 Anafenza, the Foremost
2 Dark Confidant
1 Fiend Hunter
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Izzet Staticaster
1 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
1 Mirran Crusader
1 Riders of Gavony
2 Vithian Renegades
Looks interesting. I've been considering giving Mentor a try anyway, so I think I'll test this list some. Any thoughts?
1x Anafenza, the Foremost
3x Avacyn's Pilgrim
4x Champion of the Parish
4x Kitesail Freebooter
4x Mantis Rider
1x Mayor of Avabruck
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Reflector Mage
2x Thalia, Heretic Cathar
4x Thalia's Lieutenant
Land (21)
1x Breeding Pool
4x Cavern of Souls
1x Forest
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Plains
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Temple Garden
4x Unclaimed Territory
4x Windswept Heath
3x Wooded Foothills
4x Collected Company
4x Path to Exile
1x Izzet Staticaster
2x Kambal, Consul of Allocation
2x Meddling Mage
2x Rest in Peace
3x Sin Collector
2x Stony Silence
2x Tireless Tracker
1x Vithian Renegades
3 Spell Queller
3 Search for Azcanta
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
4 Serum Visions
2 Spell Snare
3 Lightning Helix
3 Logic Knot
2 Electrolyze
4 Cryptic Command
4 Flooded Strand
2 Hallowed Fountain
3 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
2 Sulfur Falls
1 Dispel
2 Relic of Progentius
1 Celestial Purge
2 Disdainful Stroke
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Wear // Tear
I wouldn't normally pay much attention to a League list but pilot Awesum_Rosum has put up a fair share of results online and in paper. I've wanted to try Search for Azcanta in Modern but I hadn't considered it in the Jeskai Queller shell. I imagine it makes those 3 Logic Knots a lot better.
I see Godhead of Awe in some sideboards; is that just for Shadow or does it come in in other matchups as well? For what matchups would you rather have a different bomb in your 75?