Wow, they look like birthday cakes! Nice. Two Scoops reminds me of the Sunshine dude with the Raisin Bran. It's definitely on the scare factor level of NERF and Spongebob Squarepants.
Pride, I ran this on MWS a few times last night, and it was ridiculous...every game (played 4 I think), the opponent wound up asking, "What's your win condition?" Once I said Mistveil Plains:
<System> Player Lost
That is priceless. Also I think think I've come up with the perfect name to describe this deck's win condition: NERF. Pride, if this thing tests out as well as expected, you may be in mortal danger. I was routinely threatened for playing Stasis in the '90's. You may be single-handedly blamed for the downfall of Magic. It's a tough burden to bear. Of course, then you can print your own T-shirts that say, "I killed Magic: The Gathering with NERF."
I've already decimated my FNM with it twice. My friends asked me not to bring it anymore.
I'm now running my "BANTIQUITIES" deck from my sig at FNM. This will get played in some larger scale tourney though.
I don't think that's the best choice of name.
I noticed you tested with Jace, and I see your point. He is hard to protect. I guess I figured you could attrition out their hand and then play Jace, but I guess not. It's too bad, because except for the dying part he is perfect. As compensation for your testing I have prepared something for you.
I have a top 10 deck suggestions for you:
10. "Shahrazad II: The Next 1001 Arabian Nights"
9. "The Fat Lady is gagged, and tied up in the trunk"
8. "Please don't hurt me in advance"
7. "You thought playing against Stasis was fun?"
6. "Is that all you've got?"
5. "If you beat me in under 30 minutes, the next one's free."
4. "My mom made my deck"
3. "Your mom made my deck"
2. "You want see the lamest win condition, EVER?"
1. "Whoever said Magic had to be fun?"
The pilot clearly had an overwhelming fear of Counterbore.
Wow, that art scares me a bit too, maybe they are onto something... Actually, what is most interesting is the 25 land count. That really tops off the weirdness of the whole deck. With a land count like that, I'd say either they didn't test it at all or they tested it to death. Either way it is quite interesting...
But seriously, I'd be pretty ashamed of myself if I attended Alaska States and didn't win over this deck. It just looks like the creator shoved all the good cards in the format into a deck and prayed. I mean...wow.
Actually, that deck appears to be an Op-Ed piece on how easy it is to shove all the best cards in the format and do well, though I am using the term best cards loosely. And while I'm surprised they did so well, I agree with the statement that it is too easy to play all the best cards in one deck. Bravo! Maybe Wizards will learn a lesson from this.
Then again, maybe they still thought Extirpate was legal.:-/
Negate, Cryptic Command, Mistveil it back, draw into another. Esper Charm is the one problematic card. No competitive deck runs Naturalize or similar effects (other than Charm) in the MD.
It's probably also fair to point out that that particular usage of Esper Charm, while good, is the only mode in which it operates at 1-for-1. So really, if they are going to Esper, hope they destroy an enchantment.
You are just suggesting Jace as a 1-of, right? Give it a shot, see what you think. I find that he dies too easy. Runed Halo and Story Circle can't prevent creatures from attacking him, only you.
As far as a 1-0 win...I have no idea. A win is a win is a win in my book!
If it gets full points in a modified swiss tourney I'll give it a thorough test. But for now I'm only testing stuff that is meant to go 2-0. I like a breather between matches;)
Same deal as Howling Mine. I don't want my opponent drawing except when I ALLOW it. If I go adding in Howling Mine, Jace, Oona...I might as well make Turbofog, which this is not.
Going 2-0 isn't really an objective. I don't want my opponent to have access to their SB if I can avoid it. If we're going to game 2, it's only going to be in a few situations:
1. My opponent is extremely smart, and scoops, realizing they won't win.
2. I won Game 1 and there's very little time left in the round for Game 2.
3. I lost Game 1 and I do the transitional SB into Painter-Backlash going for the quick win.
Okay, I get that, and I'd still prefer Jace. If I don't want them to draw, I just kill Jace off slowly, then put him back in the library. That way I get to keep my lands on the table. When I am ready to deck him, I can do that too, and draw in the process, maintaining unanswerable CA. I think it is a better quality mechanism than Oona's Grace. How does a 1-0 finish affect your DCI score?
Looks pretty solid, though I would prefer Jace Beleren to Oona's Grace. Really would speed the game up and let you go 2-0 instead of 1-0. Still renders creature removal useless also.
5CC is not going away; it will evolve as long as the manabase will support it. It's a given that the play is slow, and that aggro will find tech to race it. But 5CC has access to every card, including trumps to every teched-out aggro deck. Now that we have a lot of data on the metagame, expect 5CC to shift again. I'm testing a radically new version right now, and I'm sure others are as well. That's another thing that is going to keep 5CC healthy, and that is there are going to be several high-quality variants of it, each with different strengths/weaknesses, and it will cause sideboarding fits for metagames everywhere.
I've got a great example of this from States. I was playing RDW, and I knew 5CC was going to be everywhere, so I ran Magma Spray MB. Wouldn't you know that I lost to a 5CC deck that ran without Kitchen Finks with a grip full of Magma Sprays? Had those been Tarfire, I would have won that match, but also I would have lost against the other 3 5CC decks I played that day. Other important questions of the day involved if any given 5CC deck was running Rhox War Monk or Broodmate. Look for 5CC to use splashes like these to confound sideboards and remain the toughest all-around MU in Standard.
I remember you telling me about Ad Nauseum, I didn't get a chance to see it and I don't think it top 8'd, but I think the biggest news after looking at some preliminary results from several states tourneys is the Bant deck, which was a bit of a question mark for me and one that I didn't test, but looks to actually be somewhat consistent. I can't wait to see the decklists!
By the way, after you left I won out but still ended up 4-2-1. Graves was undefeated by that point, but I left at 7:30PM and didn't see the Top 8 matches. The KY States TOP 8 is here:
What would be the better path to take for a deck focused on T1-3 discarding and hand disruption?
Turn one always appears to start with Thoughtsieze when drawn, followed by Tidehollow Sculler. Then it gets interesting from there because now I have two choices between Blightning or Esper Charm. I could also go T1 Thoughtsieze, followed by T2 Bitterblossom or Oona's Prowler, then T3 Blightning or Esper Charm.
So basically the T1-3 choices for me are between going B/R, B/W/R, or B/W/U. Hell, I could even go B/W/U/R, but that might stretch me over too many colors or else I would consider going with a QnT/5C build.
You have got to take what the land gives you. You can't reliably curve out 3 spells on 3 turns in 3 colors generally. If you want turn 1 Thoughtseize, you need a swamp or painland. If you then want turn 2 Tidehollow Sculler, you then need plains or filter or painland. Trying to go to a third color on turn 3 is too painful, don't do it. My build instead tries to play Knight of the White Orchid turn 3 into another Tidehollow Sculler, which is hard enough already. If you want to add more than 2 colors, you are probably going to sacrifice some speed.
demigod? gouger?
what burn do i cut?
i'm a newbie and i put this together last night at
3:00 in the morning
give more specific suggestions please.
all welcomed greatly
pyroclasm is to clear faeries but i guess it should be sideboarded
So Demigod of Revenge flat out wins games, even if your opponent is having a solid game, a topdecked Demigod steals advantage and is one of the best plays in Standard in almost any common tier 1 matchup. A second topdecked Demigod might be the best play in Standard overall. There are other ways it gets ridiculously powerful as well, such as after Broken Ambitions puts one or more in your graveyard, then you play one from your hand.
Ashenmoor Gouger is not Demigod, but it has nearly everything you want in an offensive threat. It is aggressively costed, it denies most removal, and it hits hard. The greatest thing about it is that your opponent almost always has to give up card advantage or tempo advantage to remove it. The two downsides are that it can't block and it has no evasion, but overall it ranks among Standard's most efficient threats.
You already are using Stigma Lasher, which is a fine meta choice and an overall solid 2-drop. It does 2 things really, which are to counter any potential lifegain strategies and also to establish clear board control in preparation for the deck's finishers.
The other main threat is Figure of Destiny, which is basically an epic on a card. The inscribed "Choose Your Own Adventure" abilities help to maximize his usefulness when you need it most. FoD is Standard's earliest clock, because unchecked it could kill by itself by turn 6, though it's role is usually more circuitous than that.
AS far as the burn, if it only does 1 damage cut it, because it is not going to do much in Standard. The reason burn is "good" is because you can generally apply it to the place you need it most, annoying creatures or annoying life totals. Usually 1 is more annoying than the other and the choice is clear. The tried and true method is to use burn that does more damage than it costs to play it. Spend 3, do 4. Spend 2, do 3, etc. Once we get into metagames these fundamentals can be compromised for function, such as is the case with Magma Spray right now, but at that point we are well past the 90% of what goes into a quality deck so as a new player just focus on those basic tenets and you will absorb the more subtle improvements over time. Good luck!
This is not a competitive deck. You *have* to have Howling Mine and Cinder Pyromancer in play early to even have a remote shot of winning, and you have no tutors. The burn spells, while numerous, average what, 2.5 damage per spell, meaning you need about 8 burn spells to kill opponent, or maybe 6 and a lucky swing or three with one of your 6 creatures that actually swing for damage. All before taking 20 yourself. And what in blazes are the 2 pyroclasms about in this? Sorry, but this is a poorly constructed deck that happens to be red, not RDW. Try adding some aggressive creatures and lose the bad burn.
Akrasan Squire as a turn-1 drop is likely to get in an early 2 damage, so it's not strictly better than Fanatic, which can also hit creatures. However, it improves as a turn-2 follow-up to Figure of Destiny, which is swinging for 3 after the pump. The Sigiled Paladin is not strictly better than Lasher, but it is faster, giving a pump to the 1-drop and a strong threat early game. Against Loxodon no question Lasher has benefits, but by the time it is equipped you should have threats on the table and you can afford to spend burn to remove Fae-hammers and swing with clock-level damage. These are pretty beefy creatures on the offense and are especially hot against slow draws. Anytime I see some Cipt lands on the opponent's board I'm pretty happy with the white splash.
To be fair, I think Lasher is a fine 2-drop, and I could run it instead, but unless Fae are running a full boat of Hammers it can be occasionally played around with some success, I'm having success against Toast with land control and Magma Spray, and Paladin is a good beater. Really my only reservation is the double white cc, but it hasn't proved a problem so far with the lands available. That being said, I do find myself boarding it out just in case I don't get the turn 2 WW so Stigma Lasher is still on the table for me.
Wow, they look like birthday cakes! Nice. Two Scoops reminds me of the Sunshine dude with the Raisin Bran. It's definitely on the scare factor level of NERF and Spongebob Squarepants.
That is priceless. Also I think think I've come up with the perfect name to describe this deck's win condition: NERF. Pride, if this thing tests out as well as expected, you may be in mortal danger. I was routinely threatened for playing Stasis in the '90's. You may be single-handedly blamed for the downfall of Magic. It's a tough burden to bear. Of course, then you can print your own T-shirts that say, "I killed Magic: The Gathering with NERF."
I noticed you tested with Jace, and I see your point. He is hard to protect. I guess I figured you could attrition out their hand and then play Jace, but I guess not. It's too bad, because except for the dying part he is perfect. As compensation for your testing I have prepared something for you.
I have a top 10 deck suggestions for you:
10. "Shahrazad II: The Next 1001 Arabian Nights"
9. "The Fat Lady is gagged, and tied up in the trunk"
8. "Please don't hurt me in advance"
7. "You thought playing against Stasis was fun?"
6. "Is that all you've got?"
5. "If you beat me in under 30 minutes, the next one's free."
4. "My mom made my deck"
3. "Your mom made my deck"
2. "You want see the lamest win condition, EVER?"
1. "Whoever said Magic had to be fun?"
Seriously.
Wow, that art scares me a bit too, maybe they are onto something... Actually, what is most interesting is the 25 land count. That really tops off the weirdness of the whole deck. With a land count like that, I'd say either they didn't test it at all or they tested it to death. Either way it is quite interesting...
Actually, that deck appears to be an Op-Ed piece on how easy it is to shove all the best cards in the format and do well, though I am using the term best cards loosely. And while I'm surprised they did so well, I agree with the statement that it is too easy to play all the best cards in one deck. Bravo! Maybe Wizards will learn a lesson from this.
Then again, maybe they still thought Extirpate was legal.:-/
It's probably also fair to point out that that particular usage of Esper Charm, while good, is the only mode in which it operates at 1-for-1. So really, if they are going to Esper, hope they destroy an enchantment.
If it gets full points in a modified swiss tourney I'll give it a thorough test. But for now I'm only testing stuff that is meant to go 2-0. I like a breather between matches;)
Okay, I get that, and I'd still prefer Jace. If I don't want them to draw, I just kill Jace off slowly, then put him back in the library. That way I get to keep my lands on the table. When I am ready to deck him, I can do that too, and draw in the process, maintaining unanswerable CA. I think it is a better quality mechanism than Oona's Grace. How does a 1-0 finish affect your DCI score?
I've got a great example of this from States. I was playing RDW, and I knew 5CC was going to be everywhere, so I ran Magma Spray MB. Wouldn't you know that I lost to a 5CC deck that ran without Kitchen Finks with a grip full of Magma Sprays? Had those been Tarfire, I would have won that match, but also I would have lost against the other 3 5CC decks I played that day. Other important questions of the day involved if any given 5CC deck was running Rhox War Monk or Broodmate. Look for 5CC to use splashes like these to confound sideboards and remain the toughest all-around MU in Standard.
By the way, after you left I won out but still ended up 4-2-1. Graves was undefeated by that point, but I left at 7:30PM and didn't see the Top 8 matches. The KY States TOP 8 is here:
http://bluegrassmagic.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2721&st=45&start=45
You have got to take what the land gives you. You can't reliably curve out 3 spells on 3 turns in 3 colors generally. If you want turn 1 Thoughtseize, you need a swamp or painland. If you then want turn 2 Tidehollow Sculler, you then need plains or filter or painland. Trying to go to a third color on turn 3 is too painful, don't do it. My build instead tries to play Knight of the White Orchid turn 3 into another Tidehollow Sculler, which is hard enough already. If you want to add more than 2 colors, you are probably going to sacrifice some speed.
So Demigod of Revenge flat out wins games, even if your opponent is having a solid game, a topdecked Demigod steals advantage and is one of the best plays in Standard in almost any common tier 1 matchup. A second topdecked Demigod might be the best play in Standard overall. There are other ways it gets ridiculously powerful as well, such as after Broken Ambitions puts one or more in your graveyard, then you play one from your hand.
Ashenmoor Gouger is not Demigod, but it has nearly everything you want in an offensive threat. It is aggressively costed, it denies most removal, and it hits hard. The greatest thing about it is that your opponent almost always has to give up card advantage or tempo advantage to remove it. The two downsides are that it can't block and it has no evasion, but overall it ranks among Standard's most efficient threats.
You already are using Stigma Lasher, which is a fine meta choice and an overall solid 2-drop. It does 2 things really, which are to counter any potential lifegain strategies and also to establish clear board control in preparation for the deck's finishers.
The other main threat is Figure of Destiny, which is basically an epic on a card. The inscribed "Choose Your Own Adventure" abilities help to maximize his usefulness when you need it most. FoD is Standard's earliest clock, because unchecked it could kill by itself by turn 6, though it's role is usually more circuitous than that.
AS far as the burn, if it only does 1 damage cut it, because it is not going to do much in Standard. The reason burn is "good" is because you can generally apply it to the place you need it most, annoying creatures or annoying life totals. Usually 1 is more annoying than the other and the choice is clear. The tried and true method is to use burn that does more damage than it costs to play it. Spend 3, do 4. Spend 2, do 3, etc. Once we get into metagames these fundamentals can be compromised for function, such as is the case with Magma Spray right now, but at that point we are well past the 90% of what goes into a quality deck so as a new player just focus on those basic tenets and you will absorb the more subtle improvements over time. Good luck!
This is not a competitive deck. You *have* to have Howling Mine and Cinder Pyromancer in play early to even have a remote shot of winning, and you have no tutors. The burn spells, while numerous, average what, 2.5 damage per spell, meaning you need about 8 burn spells to kill opponent, or maybe 6 and a lucky swing or three with one of your 6 creatures that actually swing for damage. All before taking 20 yourself. And what in blazes are the 2 pyroclasms about in this? Sorry, but this is a poorly constructed deck that happens to be red, not RDW. Try adding some aggressive creatures and lose the bad burn.
Akrasan Squire as a turn-1 drop is likely to get in an early 2 damage, so it's not strictly better than Fanatic, which can also hit creatures. However, it improves as a turn-2 follow-up to Figure of Destiny, which is swinging for 3 after the pump. The Sigiled Paladin is not strictly better than Lasher, but it is faster, giving a pump to the 1-drop and a strong threat early game. Against Loxodon no question Lasher has benefits, but by the time it is equipped you should have threats on the table and you can afford to spend burn to remove Fae-hammers and swing with clock-level damage. These are pretty beefy creatures on the offense and are especially hot against slow draws. Anytime I see some Cipt lands on the opponent's board I'm pretty happy with the white splash.
To be fair, I think Lasher is a fine 2-drop, and I could run it instead, but unless Fae are running a full boat of Hammers it can be occasionally played around with some success, I'm having success against Toast with land control and Magma Spray, and Paladin is a good beater. Really my only reservation is the double white cc, but it hasn't proved a problem so far with the lands available. That being said, I do find myself boarding it out just in case I don't get the turn 2 WW so Stigma Lasher is still on the table for me.