is icon of ancestry any good for the jund matchup?
i would like to have some help especially for the sideboard, in a meta that sees jund, tron, whirza, stoneblade and burn as top contenders
the problem with bant infect is that in order to have t1 W and turn 2 U in addition to green, according to Karsten you'd have to stretch your manabase to the maximum. This is the only configuration that can work in order to satisfy those constraints:
12 fetchlands + temple garden + breeeding pool + forest + any GW dual land
for example:
giver of runes is a very potent card, and is sometimes an upgrade to apostle's blessing (it has its downsides, though, for example you have to wait a turn to have it online).
Furthermore, access to white grants potent sideboard options like mark of asylum and path to exile
The question is: are you willing to stretch your manabase to the point of having only 3/4 fetchables (with 12 fetchlands!), a painful manabase in order to gain access to white?
In my opinion, after some testing, the answer is no. i'll use my apostle's blessings in a more stable UG version (with waterlogged groves and botanical sanctums), and face the fact that some matchups in the current meta are almost unwinnable
regarding flame sweep vs. firespout, i just wanted to point out that the first actually has an application against opposing flyers (e.g. lingering souls tokens, stinkweed imp, flickerwisp,...), while firespout only cares if a creature flies or not.
No way to deal with Mantis rider save for paths, still.
mariner is a disruptive piece and has the kind of ability we'd consider in a spirit, i like him for that. i like the way you can stack multiple of them, i like the way it incidentally stops burn and some combos (ad nauseam, storm, scapeshift) from doing their thing. i like him in addition to kira as a protection package. i like the fact that unlike thalia he grows up with our lords, so that he's useful in noncreature matchups.
but
he doesn't fly, which is a huge drawback in many games.
he has a fairly steep cost, meaning you can't run a greedy manabase with mutavaults (which by the way i recently switched with horizon lands and i'm happy with that)
he doesn't contribute to our plan significantly: while spirits excel at protecting each other, the layer of protection mariner gives is either irrelevant or too weak to matter.
The major thing about him, though, is that the meta is currently not about removals. of the 4 top tier decks, three don't really care about removals, and humans - the only one that does - is thriving off of the lack of removal in the meta (so does infect, by the way).
TLDR While mariner has an ability that's relevant, it is too weak and too irrelevant meta-wise to warrant a spot in our tight decklist.
the reasoning behind this is that as a tribe we naturally lack the ways to deal with go-wide strategies. Firespout could be an answer to this need, and it comes for basically free in an otherwise UW shell. Force of Negation in the main should be able to take care of the other kinds of matchup, so much that i decided to move deputy of detention(Debbie) in the sideboard.
i'm not sure whether we can fit light up the stage in, given that Force requires us to have a lot of blue cards. Unfortunately, with "only" 12 R sources, we can't afford to play lightning bolt. A possible solution would be to remove cavern of souls for inspiring vantage or spirebluff canal, but i decided to make the splash as minimal as I could.
btw re:unsettled mariner i 5-0 with him and I have to admit... it's not good.
The problem with bant is that we don't have enough lands to guarantee 14 W sources while also guaranteeing at least 13 U sources. The only way to achieve that goal is with this manabase:
Could someone explain to me the choice to have 2 basics, soecifically island+plains? I thought forest+plains would be more intuitive, if we're planning to play basics at all
I think herald has value if paired with 4x path to exile as interaction #5-7
In any case, i specified those 3 copies might as well be thalias/deputy to slow the game or phantasmal image to increase the clock
I don't think we can afford that many 3-drops, i think 11-12 is the maximum
In addition pte is very good, i'm not feeling comfortable reducing our cheapest interaction for anything
hey! Following some discussions in the discord, i've been trying with middling success a green splash for UW spirits (just for sideboard hate), but it felt distant from the solidity of my last 5-0 league
with the printing of spectral sailor, i'll be testing this all-spirits list , with 3 copies of the new card. Right now i'm testing with topplegeist in its stead
nebelgast herald has been chosen due to its synergy with the sailor, the potential of a fast clock and the presence of humans and hogaakvine... but i'll gladly come back to
Maybe coco is the wrong answer to a right question: i feel the deck tends to often run out of gas quickly, it feels the only problem of the deck as it's the only "flaw" that makes it lose games, maybe more cycling lands is the way to go? I'd trade a bit of manageable pain with more gas, at the point that im thinking running also waterlogged grove
Also: in the current meta i miss a solid sideboard card in rest in peace
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Meddling Mage
4 Kitesail Freebooter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Thalia's Lieutenant
3 Phantasmal Image
4 Mantis Rider
4 Reflector Mage
2 Deputy of Detention
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Unclaimed Territory
4 Ancient Ziggurat
3 Horizon Canopy
3 Waterlogged Grove
1 Plains
3 Collector Ouphe
2 Unsettled Mariner
1 Auriok Champion
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Knight of Autumn
2 Damping Sphere
4 Dismember
is icon of ancestry any good for the jund matchup?
i would like to have some help especially for the sideboard, in a meta that sees jund, tron, whirza, stoneblade and burn as top contenders
12 fetchlands + temple garden + breeeding pool + forest + any GW dual land
for example:
4 windswept heat
4 misty rainforest
1 breeding pool
1 temple garden
1 forest
1 horizon canopy
giver of runes is a very potent card, and is sometimes an upgrade to apostle's blessing (it has its downsides, though, for example you have to wait a turn to have it online).
Furthermore, access to white grants potent sideboard options like mark of asylum and path to exile
The question is: are you willing to stretch your manabase to the point of having only 3/4 fetchables (with 12 fetchlands!), a painful manabase in order to gain access to white?
In my opinion, after some testing, the answer is no. i'll use my apostle's blessings in a more stable UG version (with waterlogged groves and botanical sanctums), and face the fact that some matchups in the current meta are almost unwinnable
No way to deal with Mantis rider save for paths, still.
but
he doesn't fly, which is a huge drawback in many games.
he has a fairly steep cost, meaning you can't run a greedy manabase with mutavaults (which by the way i recently switched with horizon lands and i'm happy with that)
he doesn't contribute to our plan significantly: while spirits excel at protecting each other, the layer of protection mariner gives is either irrelevant or too weak to matter.
The major thing about him, though, is that the meta is currently not about removals. of the 4 top tier decks, three don't really care about removals, and humans - the only one that does - is thriving off of the lack of removal in the meta (so does infect, by the way).
TLDR While mariner has an ability that's relevant, it is too weak and too irrelevant meta-wise to warrant a spot in our tight decklist.
4 mausoleum Wanderer
3 Spectral Sailor
4 Selfless Spirit
4 Rattlechains
4 Supreme Phantom
1 Phantasmal Image
4 Spell Queller
4 Drogskol Captain
Spells (11)
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
3 Force of Negation
1 cavern of souls
4 seachrome coast
4 flooded strand
3 scalding tarn
1 hallowed fountain
1 steam vents
4 fiery islet
2 island
1 plains
4 rest in peace
2 hurkyl's recall
3 damping sphere
3 deputy of detention
3 firespout
the reasoning behind this is that as a tribe we naturally lack the ways to deal with go-wide strategies. Firespout could be an answer to this need, and it comes for basically free in an otherwise UW shell. Force of Negation in the main should be able to take care of the other kinds of matchup, so much that i decided to move deputy of detention(Debbie) in the sideboard.
i'm not sure whether we can fit light up the stage in, given that Force requires us to have a lot of blue cards. Unfortunately, with "only" 12 R sources, we can't afford to play lightning bolt. A possible solution would be to remove cavern of souls for inspiring vantage or spirebluff canal, but i decided to make the splash as minimal as I could.
btw re:unsettled mariner i 5-0 with him and I have to admit... it's not good.
4 glistener elf
4 noble hierarch
4 giver of runes
4 blighted agent
Spells (24)
4 mutagenic growth
4 blossoming defense
4 might of old krosa
4 vines of vastwood
3 scale up
3 groundswell
2 spell pierce
4 wooded foothills
4 windswept heath
4 misty rainforest
4 inkmoth nexus
1 forest
1 temple garden
1 breeding pool
1 horizon canopy
1 Rest in Peace
1 Stony Silence
1 Path to exile
1 mark of asylum
_________________________
btw, i top8ed a mcq with the following UG list
4 noble hierarch
4 blighted agent
1 blight mamba
4 mutagenic growth
4 blossoming defense
4 might of old krosa
4 vines of vastwood
3 scale up
3 groundswell
2 spell pierce
3 apostle's blessing
4 waterlogged grove
4 botanical sanctum
1 breeding pool
2 forest
4 inkmoth nexus
1 dryad arbor
2 seal of primordium
1 natural state
2 viridian corrupter
1 nissa, voice of zendikar
2 dispel
2 ceremonious rejection
3 shapers' sanctuary
1 spellskite
1 wild defiance
sideboard is a bit up in the air, could you help me out in improving it?
In any case, i specified those 3 copies might as well be thalias/deputy to slow the game or phantasmal image to increase the clock
In addition pte is very good, i'm not feeling comfortable reducing our cheapest interaction for anything
with the printing of spectral sailor, i'll be testing this all-spirits list , with 3 copies of the new card. Right now i'm testing with topplegeist in its stead
4 aether vial
4 path to exile
Creatures (31)
4 mausoleum wanderer
3 spectral sailor
4 rattlechains
4 selfless spirit
4 supreme phantom
4 spell queller
4 drogskol captain
3 nebelgast herald
1 kira, great glass-spinner
2 cavern of souls
4 flooded strand
2 misty rainforest
4 seachrome coast
1 hallowed fountain
2 island
1 plains
3 waterlogged grove
1 horizon canopy
1 breeding pool
3 rest in peace
3 damping sphere
3 unified will
2 collector ouphe
1 gaddock teeg
2 deputy of detention
1 echoing truth
nebelgast herald has been chosen due to its synergy with the sailor, the potential of a fast clock and the presence of humans and hogaakvine... but i'll gladly come back to
some points i would like to make:
my initial list is the following
4 striking sliver
4 diffusion sliver
4 cloudshredder sliver
4 sinew sliver
4 predatory sliver
4 unsettled mariner
4 blur sliver
4 dismember
4 cavern of souls
4 unclaimed territory
4 sliver hive
4 fiery islet
2 ancient ziggurat
2 mutavault
4 leyline of the void
3 harmonic sliver
3 necrotic sliver
3 damping sphere
2 darkheart sliver
4 unclaimed territory
4 sliver hive
4 fiery islet
2 ancient ziggurat
2 mutavault
4 aether vial
4 dismember
4 striking sliver
4 diffusion sliver
4 cloudshredder sliver
4 sinew sliver
4 predatory sliver
4 unsettled mariner
4 blur sliver
4 leline of the void
3 harmonic sliver
3 necrotic sliver
3 damping sphere
2 darkheart sliver
4 phantasmal bear
4 krovikan mist
4 lord of the unreal
4 phantasmal image
2 metallic mimic
4 unsettled mariner
4 mirror entity
2 illusory angel
4 path to exile
4 flooded strand
4 polluted delta
2 island
1 hallowed fountain
4 seachrome coast
4 waterlogged grove
1 fiery islet
4 rest in peace
2 grafdigger's cage
3 damping sphere
4 deprive
2 stony silence
Also: in the current meta i miss a solid sideboard card in rest in peace